Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Andarer
Posts: 15

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Andarer » February 21st, 2018, 12:41 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:
The problem I have with that is something related to Occam's Razor. While it's traditionally simplified to "the simplest answer is usually the correct one," it isn't quite the case. It's just easier to test and either discard or confirm a theory if there are fewer moving parts to it. You should be conservative with adding new parameters and concepts, because those would need the same sort of testing and confirmation. This is incidentally why, though people try to give a "simple" explanation regarding unknown phenomena by claiming something supernatural or otherworldly (such as someone using demons or ghosts or aliens as an explanation), are actually far more complicated than other answers, because it would require a complete changing of our understanding of things like physics and energy and so on to account for those phenomena.

Actually, the reason why people use occam's razor wrong is because they don't know that the options being tested are supposed to be in a sequence of subsets: guessing you're going to see a blue car today gives you better odds than guessing you're going to see a blue ford today, because if you fulfill B you also fulfill A, but there are ways to fulfill A without B.

That's why using the Occam's Razor as a means to choose between 2 possible alternatives is usually a wrong use of the theory.
CrimsonGenius
Posts: 49

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby CrimsonGenius » February 22nd, 2018, 7:08 am

Spoiler:
my new theory, that Rikumichi Kusuda might've been RUM because there are characters ASACA RUM in his name too my new observation or either 1st, 2nd gen RUM, since he suspected Rena is a RAT, but he didn't want BO to interfere, so he prepared his disposable decoy body double Numabuchi just in case, he infiltrated himself disguised as a possible generic face (to protect his identity, appaerance) to retrieve her, find her identity, background. The one who being cornered, shot himself in temple was actually a decoy body double, Numabuchi who wanted to die in disguise ,switched during either before car chase at some point.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 90

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » February 22nd, 2018, 8:43 pm

CrimsonGenius wrote:
Spoiler:
my new theory, that Rikumichi Kusuda might've been RUM because there are characters ASACA RUM in his name too my new observation or either 1st, 2nd gen RUM, since he suspected Rena is a RAT, but he didn't want BO to interfere, so he prepared his disposable decoy body double Numabuchi just in case, he infiltrated himself disguised as a possible generic face (to protect his identity, appaerance) to retrieve her, find her identity, background. The one who being cornered, shot himself in temple was actually a decoy body double, Numabuchi who wanted to die in disguise ,switched during either before car chase at some point.


Well, that is an interesting theory considering the fact that Eisuke Hondou told Conan he heard a number by tune that his father used to text the boss in the hospital where Kir was being held being dialed. Conan was able to infer that the tune was Nanatsu no Ko (七つの子, lit. Seven children or Child of seven; occasionally romanized as Seven Baby Crows or The Crow's Seven Chicks.) Now would a low ranking BO member be given and have access to a number that would directly contact the boss? Most likely not, so that means there must have been a high ranking BO member present at the hospital at the time, and there is a possibility that the person could be RUM, so certainly your theory holds water. ;)

What is also interesting is the lyrics to that song, since Karasu literally means crow:
Karasu naze nakuno
Karasu wa yama ni
Kawaii nanatsu no
Ko ga aru kara yo

Kawaii kawaii to
Karasu wa nakuno
Kawaii kawaii to
Nakundayo

Yama no hurusu e
Itte mite goran
Marui me o shita
Iiko da yo
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1253

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 22nd, 2018, 9:04 pm

blackmoon wrote: Now would a low ranking BO member be given and have access to a number that would directly contact the boss? Most likely not
Vermouth already confirmed that Kusuda Rikumichi (the "patient" that Eisuke heard dialing the boss' number) was a lower-than-codenamed agent (File 894), so that puts a hole on the reasoning that agents lower than codenamed ones don't have the Boss' number in order to update him on their missions.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 302

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » February 22nd, 2018, 10:07 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
blackmoon wrote: Now would a low ranking BO member be given and have access to a number that would directly contact the boss? Most likely not
Vermouth already confirmed that Kusuda Rikumichi (the "patient" that Eisuke heard dialing the boss' number) was a lower-than-codenamed agent (File 894), so that puts a hole on the reasoning that agents lower than codenamed ones don't have the Boss' number in order to update him on their missions.


Well as of now we know nothing about the origin of Kusuda Rikumichi and whether he's really dead or not. To be honest, the body which was burnt beyond recognition was made to look like Akai's body. But the question is whether the body was actually a dead Kusuda's body or not? As of now we aren't convinced of this but if that was the case really, then the person masquerading as Kusuda Rikumichi would have gone to the boss and make him aware that the body of his double was never found. And Akai's burnt corpse had exactly same injuries. So I think Kusuda Rikumichi is dead but would have been a nice theory.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 90

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » February 22nd, 2018, 11:53 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
blackmoon wrote: Now would a low ranking BO member be given and have access to a number that would directly contact the boss? Most likely not
Vermouth already confirmed that Kusuda Rikumichi (the "patient" that Eisuke heard dialing the boss' number) was a lower-than-codenamed agent (File 894), so that puts a hole on the reasoning that agents lower than codenamed ones don't have the Boss' number in order to update him on their missions.


Well, giving agents lower than code-named ones the number of the boss is like giving away the chance for unnecessary harassment from unimportant people. Would a boss do something like that? The whole function of having a secretary or second-in-command is to screen through all those unnecessarily reports and unimportant incidents so a boss does not need to be bothered all the time. So giving away a personal direct contact number to an unnecessary person seems highly unlikely.

The point is that Vermouth confirmed that Kusuda Rikumichi was a lower than code-named agent, and that Eisuke HEARD the dialing of the boss number, but Eisuke did not actually SEE Kusuda dial the number, so was it really the lower than code-named agent who has the boss's number and dialed that tune? Or maybe there was another HIGH ranking BO member present at the time in the hospital who had the number and did the dialing? Or maybe there was a hIGH ranking member who used Kusuda Rikumichi's identity as a disguise? :-\
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 90

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » February 22nd, 2018, 11:58 pm

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Well as of now we know nothing about the origin of Kusuda Rikumichi and whether he's really dead or not. To be honest, the body which was burnt beyond recognition was made to look like Akai's body. But the question is whether the body was actually a dead Kusuda's body or not? As of now we aren't convinced of this but if that was the case really, then the person masquerading as Kusuda Rikumichi would have gone to the boss and make him aware that the body of his double was never found. And Akai's burnt corpse had exactly same injuries. So I think Kusuda Rikumichi is dead but would have been a nice theory.


Well, for once I must admit that the deduction you presented is convincing enough for me to assert that Kusuda must be dead; otherwise, the BO would have already be informed of and is aware of 'his' burnt corpse being used as a double or decoy.
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1253

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 23rd, 2018, 5:38 am

blackmoon wrote:The whole function of having a secretary or second-in-command is to screen through all those unnecessarily reports and unimportant incidents so a boss
Doesn't seem to be a part of the functions since the boss has been in on pretty much every BO members' business, since all of them reports back to him routinely.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
CrimsonGenius
Posts: 49

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby CrimsonGenius » February 23rd, 2018, 1:08 pm

blackmoon wrote:
Zerozaki4869 wrote:Well as of now we know nothing about the origin of Kusuda Rikumichi and whether he's really dead or not. To be honest, the body which was burnt beyond recognition was made to look like Akai's body. But the question is whether the body was actually a dead Kusuda's body or not? As of now we aren't convinced of this but if that was the case really, then the person masquerading as Kusuda Rikumichi would have gone to the boss and make him aware that the body of his double was never found. And Akai's burnt corpse had exactly same injuries. So I think Kusuda Rikumichi is dead but would have been a nice theory.


Well, for once I must admit that the deduction you presented is convincing enough for me to assert that Kusuda must be dead; otherwise, the BO would have already be informed of and is aware of 'his' burnt corpse being used as a double or decoy.

But why'd RUM want BO or any members to know that he 'messed up' his mission again second time to gain Gin's wrath, hatred again? & BO members don't really cared, monitoreed whether Numabuchi whereabouts, lives or dies since he was lunatic.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 90

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » February 23rd, 2018, 8:40 pm

CrimsonGenius wrote:But why'd RUM want BO or any members to know that he 'messed up' his mission again second time to gain Gin's wrath, hatred again? & BO members don't really cared, monitoreed whether Numabuchi whereabouts, lives or dies since he was lunatic.


Uh... wasn't the suggestion that Rikumichi Kusuda might've been RUM YOUR new theory? Shouldn't you be the one answering the question 'why' to piece together how that theory may be possible? ???
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 90

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby blackmoon » February 23rd, 2018, 8:50 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote: Doesn't seem to be a part of the functions since the boss has been in on pretty much every BO members' business, since all of them reports back to him routinely.


Oh, I didn't know that! Thank you for informing us so much about the personal habits and details about the BOSS when Gosho hasn't even revealed his identity, and under the condition that we don't even KNOW who he really is! WoW!
The boss must have a lot of time on his hands to have every single one of his underlings report back to him and to monitor them every single minute for 24 hours. That really makes logical sense! :P

You know what? If that were the case, then I'm sure there is no need for a second-in-command to handle things for him. In other words, there is no need for RUM to exist at all! ;D
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1253

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 24th, 2018, 9:58 am

blackmoon wrote:You know what? If that were the case, then I'm sure there is no need for a second-in-command to handle things for him. In other words, there is no need for RUM to exist at all! ;D
erm.. that's quite the jump. We don't know to what extent they keep him updated, and a second-in-command handles more than just the members.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
mtcc
Posts: 38

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » February 27th, 2018, 10:45 am

I found something maybe would be useful or just a Coincidence
three cases in rum arc
appeared to be murderers case but in the end was suicide
906 case
asaca song case
scotch akai case
mtcc
Posts: 38

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby mtcc » February 27th, 2018, 6:06 pm

small detail the tie wakita Waist and chikara is exact same way
chikara vol 85 keyhole and first case
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1253

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 27th, 2018, 6:24 pm

mtcc wrote:I found something maybe would be useful or just a Coincidence
three cases in rum arc
appeared to be murderers case but in the end was suicide
906 case
asaca song case
scotch akai case
That's the same case... so it's really just two cases.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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