Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

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K.O.R.N
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 12th, 2017, 7:23 am

Here's my analysis on Rum's arc so far. This post: https://www.reddit.com/r/OneTruthPrevai ... pter_1006/ is about Rum's relationships with some characters in the series and I also make a deduction on who Rum can be. Hope it's some good read for you.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 13th, 2017, 12:21 am

K.O.R.N wrote:Here's my analysis on Rum's arc so far. This post: https://www.reddit.com/r/OneTruthPrevai ... pter_1006/ is about Rum's relationships with some characters in the series and I also make a deduction on who Rum can be. Hope it's some good read for you.


Spoiler:
K.O.R.N wrote:I conclude myself that Kuroda is Rum


And how do you feel about Gosho pulling the, "This guy's so obviously the culprit, he must be a red herring... nope, he actually is the culprit" twist?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 13th, 2017, 8:08 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:And how do you feel about Gosho pulling the, "This guy's so obviously the culprit, he must be a red herring... nope, he actually is the culprit" twist?


It's a possibility yes, as we have seen this in many regular cases throughout the series. When Amuro first appeared you can say he's a red herring. The reason is he is shown to be a good detective and with the way he talks it clearly seemed like he tricked people into doing whatever for him. His appearance fits what Kir said before, "this member is good at info gathering". People think it was too easy to conclude that Amuro is Bourbon, so then I know a lot of others have chosen more complex routes in determining Bourbon's identity...like Subaru being Bourbon, or Sera...all those have been possibilities brought to the table.

In Rum arc, it could be the same way, in which Rumi turns out to be Rum. Should this be the case, a red herring is simplified to the one truth we have been looking for. The thing Gosho could make us surprised is reveal a different act-think pattern of the 2nd-in-command no one has expected before...But honestly, I just reassure myself that the 2nd-in-command still has to act in a way that makes sense for readers to imagine. He should be the kind of criminal who is very efficient in what he does, and that he should be the type who does things in a way to achieve his goals and he shouldn't really forgo his main objective with lengthy nonsense trickery in the process. In other words, we know for sure, that he is better than Gin and Vermouth, because he's the 2nd-in-command while the other two are not.

What Rumi does so far, to me sounds like she's trying to play some hide-and-seek and the contradiction in her actions just really put me off on the chance that she is Rum. Not trying to say Rum has to be a straightforward enemy, but I'm saying that it just doesn't make much sense to me, in Rumi's case. For Wakita this character clearly needs to appear more no doubt. For Kuroda I have plenty of reasons why he could be Rum (7 reasons total). So that's why I choose Kuroda as the most solid one. The reverse psychology would be very interesting, I'm not gonna lie, because I wanna see convincing reasons from Gosho how that red herring turns out to be a thing.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby kentasaiba » November 13th, 2017, 8:44 am

What if Asaka is REALLY Rum? There might be no mysterious shogi-piece with a hidden message. If Rumi really comes out to be Rum, she just could be attacked by Mary or Tsutomu, who also had connections to Kohji. With Amuro the solution was really simple, so maybe this is the case too.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 13th, 2017, 9:14 am

kentasaiba wrote:What if Asaka is REALLY Rum? There might be no mysterious shogi-piece with a hidden message. If Rumi really comes out to be Rum, she just could be attacked by Mary or Tsutomu, who also had connections to Kohji. With Amuro the solution was really simple, so maybe this is the case too.


If Asaka is Rum then the person could've killed off Amanda easily elsewhere, not leading all the way to the hotel in the US to make a fuss in a public place like that. We know for sure Mary is NOT Asaka in the first place. If Asaka was drugged, it happened 17 years ago,during the Kouji case most likely, while Mary shrank somewhere within the most recent 10 years. From the way Subaru said to Conan, Tsutomu really was involved in the case and so that's the very good reason he made enemies with BO, so I only agree with your point that Tsutomu burst into the scene and attacked Rum. It is said that Kouji is the one who left the dying message, but, that might not be that simple. I do believe the original intent of any dying message is to point to the culprit, and that Kouji doesn't know the Black Organization because he's just a shogi player. Therefore, there should be some alteration to the original dying message of Kouji. Or it could even be that Kouji didn't create the dying message at all; rather, it was done by Asaka, the bodyguard present at the crime scene with a different purpose.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » November 13th, 2017, 11:18 am

kentasaiba wrote:What if Asaka is REALLY Rum? There might be no mysterious shogi-piece with a hidden message. If Rumi really comes out to be Rum, she just could be attacked by Mary or Tsutomu, who also had connections to Kohji. With Amuro the solution was really simple, so maybe this is the case too.


Well... then this simply would be a straight story.

Did Gosho ever had an arc without a (atleast from his estimated perspective) kind of "big" twist?
I would say no.

Vermouth arc -> Jodie isnt Vermouth, but Araide
Kir -> Kir is from the CIA and a mole
Bourbon -> Subaru isnt Bourbon

So if everything is as it is presented to us (Rumi or Kuroda = Rum, Asaka = Rum), then this would break the pattern.
From a criminal-literature-perspective it wouldnt be a good runout aswell, because of the missing twists.

Anyways the whole "17-years-ago-story" is so full of questions and blanks, that there for sure will be some kind of twist.
Most likely Asaka in fact isnt Rum + the dying message is sth else.


It's a possibility yes, as we have seen this in many regular cases throughout the series. When Amuro first appeared you can say he's a red herring. The reason is he is shown to be a good detective and with the way he talks it clearly seemed like he tricked people into doing whatever for him. His appearance fits what Kir said before, "this member is good at info gathering". People think it was too easy to conclude that Amuro is Bourbon, so then I know a lot of others have chosen more complex routes in determining Bourbon's identity...like Subaru being Bourbon, or Sera...all those have been possibilities brought to the table.


Really? How many regular cases had the pattern "clues and focus pretty much only on one person" and this person actually turned out to be the culprit?
Atleast I cant remember that many (movie 9 for example).

I dont know how the meta was here by that time, but I guess from the standard-reader-perspective
Subaru was by far the top-candidate for Bourbon.
I mean Gosho even made sure to let him drink a glass of bourbon right before the big finale to smash it in our faces.
Given that thought Rei was the clear Nr. 2 pick at that time (atleast from a superstraightforward-thinking perspective).

And Sera wouldnt fit the "info gathering" -description?
She failed as much as Rei in his first appereance-case and got as close as him to Kogoro and friends.

And now we have Rumi as the superstraightforward pick and I would add Kuroda as one too.
In Bourbon-arc we didnt even had such a extensive face-to-face confrontation as we had with Kuroda/Rumi in the woods.
Every freakin time Kuroda meets Conan Gosho choses to draw Conan with a superfrightened face.
Even his intro was one big punch towards "this guy is a top notch Rum-candidate".

Given the fact that this is most likely the second last arc I really doubt that Gosho would present us a straightforward arc/Rum-pick.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby K.O.R.N » November 13th, 2017, 11:56 am

dccd wrote:

Really? How many regular cases had the pattern "clues and focus pretty much only on one person" and this person actually turned out to be the culprit?


Yeah there are some cases but not that many.
And Sera wouldnt fit the "info gathering" -description?
She failed as much as Rei in his first appereance-case and got as close as him to Kogoro and friends.


Sera has info gathering skills. In her intro case, she faked a false deduction to test Conan's skills and Conan solved the case in front of her.

And now we have Rumi as the superstraightforward pick and I would add Kuroda as one too.
In Bourbon-arc we didnt even had such a extensive face-to-face confrontation as we had with Kuroda/Rumi in the woods.
Every freakin time Kuroda meets Conan Gosho choses to draw Conan with a superfrightened face.
Even his intro was one big punch towards "this guy is a top notch Rum-candidate".

Given the fact that this is most likely the second last arc I really doubt that Gosho would present us a straightforward arc/Rum-pick.


Rumi is NOT a straightforward character. Her personalities and behavior are full of paradoxes. Kuroda seems straightforward, but the possibility of him being "swapped" by Rum makes it more challenging to decipher. There can be a lot of possible backstories behind this scenario should it be true.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » November 13th, 2017, 12:57 pm

dccd wrote:I dont know how the meta was here by that time, but I guess from the standard-reader-perspective
Subaru was by far the top-candidate for Bourbon.


While early on there was a more split opinion, by the red shirts case there was such a well put together Akai-is-Okiya theory (and Scar-Akai is Bourbon) that most people here (besides a few individuals) were on board with that one. Moreover, when Sera and Amuro were introduced, their roles were evident from the get-go due to the gundam naming scheme.

Actually, this much can be said. Both with the Bourbon mysteries and what came afterwards, by the time the mysteries were resolved, there was a majority in the community that got the answer right (whether people came up with the answer themselves or agreed with the logic of the theories other people came up with). The only major exception I can think of is with Bourbon's true allegiance (I don't have statistics for that, though).

Not to say that we can necessarily say at this very moment who Rum is (or who anyone is) based on what the community thinks. The mysteries are much slower this time around and pretty much nothing is truly solvable at this point due to the lack of hints.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » November 13th, 2017, 1:48 pm

Ah, thanks for that info, Kor.

And Korn, I think you missunderstood me.
I didnt want to point out that both of them are straightforward in terms of personality and behaviour but more of
"being the obvious Rum-pick" same as Subaru was in the Bourbon-arc.
Wakita in comparison is way less of a "in your face"-kind of pick then those two.
Atleast from my point of view.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Kevinp20
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kevinp20 » November 14th, 2017, 3:20 am

I just checked chapter 179 and found this :

Spoiler:
Image


On that picture, we can see that Shinichi's name is exactly above Koji's name. But, on chapter 947, Shinichi's name is 2 name above Koji's name. why there's a different? why can a person's name get into the list between Shinchi and Koji? is this just an error or what??
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 14th, 2017, 4:54 am

Kevinp20 wrote:I just checked chapter 179 and found this :

Spoiler:
Image


On that picture, we can see that Shinichi's name is exactly above Koji's name. But, on chapter 947, Shinichi's name is 2 name above Koji's name. why there's a different? why can a person's name get into the list between Shinchi and Koji? is this just an error or what??
the scanlator removed the whole list and rewrote the names wrongly. File 947 is right.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby thriceplus » November 15th, 2017, 7:07 pm

Well, according to conventional wisdom, Rumi can't be Rum since Gosho Aoyama's trying way too hard to make her suspicious this early in the arc. Same goes with Kuroda.

Of the three main suspects, I'm currently leaning:

Kuroda = Tsutomu Akai (based on my theory here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12988)
Rumi = too early to say, but someone with relationship to BO, but not Rum
Wakita = Rum

Wakita's currently the least suspicious candidate for Rum, which makes him the most suspicious if that makes sense.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » Today, 7:07 am

Rum arc is a puzzle in itself. Given the fact that Rum's injury is qite old/he uses prosthetic eye, and Wakita suffering from a boil/stye/ulcer(according to Spimer's correct translation)and going as far as to show Conan his real affected eye proves that He's not Rum.

Kuroda is very likely Kuroda himself. To think of a switch in mid coma there are too many variables. The most glaring is why would someone mimic Kuroda's every injury with perfect etail but can time the waking up, to make sure that he gets a black colouring for his beard and hair. It's a misdirection tactic used by Gosho/an implicit red herring to think Kuroda is swapped.

Rumi is being made to look like Rum=Asaka=Rumi, which is the main idea of Gosho. But there are severe problems with this theory. All in all Rum is neither of the three, Papakai if alive is Wakita, not Kuroda and probably he's the closest associate of Kuroda. (Remember Kuroda is a boss figure and Wakita is Boss' closest aide.)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » Today, 8:06 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:(Remember Kuroda is a boss figure and Wakita is Boss' closest aide.)
Ah, so that's how you have decided to make sense of "the boss' closest subordinate" clue.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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