Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 21st, 2017, 6:35 am

S.Vineyard wrote:Mostly agreeing with this, but kinda doubting that Wakita is really Rum. The current development smells a bit like a red herring.
I agree with this. Wakita is not Rum for the same general reason as why Kuroda is not Rum.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Serinox
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » September 21st, 2017, 7:11 am

Random Reader wrote:As for the name above that list, it looks like Tsutomu. Akai's dad is my guess.

You mean this one, right?
Image
This name is 樽井英成, while Tsutomu's name is 赤井務武. The only similarity is the second Kanji, the others don't even look alike.
Kor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » September 21st, 2017, 2:36 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:Spoilers from 1005:

Spoiler:
So considering that now we see that Rumi has scars over her arms and torso, pretty sure that puts to rest that theory about her being Vermouth. (We see Vermouth after shower in the first file of Mystery Train. She has no scars on her arms).
If you were to make the assumption that Rumi got it before Mystery train case, then sure.


Spoiler:
Is there some sort of reason to assume she got the scars after Mystery Train? :|
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 21st, 2017, 3:42 pm

Kor wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:Spoilers from 1005:

Spoiler:
So considering that now we see that Rumi has scars over her arms and torso, pretty sure that puts to rest that theory about her being Vermouth. (We see Vermouth after shower in the first file of Mystery Train. She has no scars on her arms).
If you were to make the assumption that Rumi got it before Mystery train case, then sure.


Spoiler:
Is there some sort of reason to assume she got the scars after Mystery Train? :|
I don't think there's any evidence-based reason to think either or. Simply put, we are still in a standstill.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Kor
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Posts: 2889

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » September 21st, 2017, 7:00 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:Spoilers from 1005:

Spoiler:
So considering that now we see that Rumi has scars over her arms and torso, pretty sure that puts to rest that theory about her being Vermouth. (We see Vermouth after shower in the first file of Mystery Train. She has no scars on her arms).
If you were to make the assumption that Rumi got it before Mystery train case, then sure.


Spoiler:
Is there some sort of reason to assume she got the scars after Mystery Train? :|
I don't think there's any evidence-based reason to think either or. Simply put, we are still in a standstill.


Spoiler:
A standstill about Rumi's scars, or about Rumi being Vermouth? Cause the former doesn't really matter unless you still believe in the latter.
Image
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 22nd, 2017, 1:26 am

Kor wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Kor wrote:Spoilers from 1005:

Spoiler:
So considering that now we see that Rumi has scars over her arms and torso, pretty sure that puts to rest that theory about her being Vermouth. (We see Vermouth after shower in the first file of Mystery Train. She has no scars on her arms).
If you were to make the assumption that Rumi got it before Mystery train case, then sure.


Spoiler:
Is there some sort of reason to assume she got the scars after Mystery Train? :|
I don't think there's any evidence-based reason to think either or. Simply put, we are still in a standstill.


Spoiler:
A standstill about Rumi's scars, or about Rumi being Vermouth? Cause the former doesn't really matter unless you still believe in the latter.
"Standstill" in terms of if the scars debunk or support something. When it comes to Rumi's development in File 1005 overall, we are far from a standstill. I don't think anyone should keep doubting that Haibara got BO-triggered by Rumi with this new evidence.

It does matter if you are truly trying to figure out the truth and eliminate as many alternatives as possible rather than just going with what you want to believe.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » September 22nd, 2017, 9:38 am

I agree with this. Wakita is not Rum for the same general reason as why Kuroda is not Rum.


To fully understand you:
They both arent Rum, because they look like obvious red herrings, right?

If yes, then I absolutely agree with you.
I personally dismissed Kuroda right after the first panel he was drawn into - simply because I dont think Gosho would introduce Rum this way.
The introductions of Rumi and Wakita where somewhat more neutral.
Still Rumi have been dismissed right after her name was shown.
Wakita pretty much held the longest line since he was dismissed just in his 3rd Chapter ("Today the second boss appears" and "another disciple..").

So your pick is on Iori?
I still doubt he has anything to do with the main-story.
For his introduction: Does anybody really believe Rum would be introduced with "?????" into the manga?
I dont.

So the next logical step might be "Rum didnt appear yet" or "Rum is another (side-)character".
For the latter we have a kinda big pool the chose from.
I personally throw an eye on Yoko, Higo, Sakurako and Azusa.

PS: Im still shocked to see that about 50% of the reddit-voters believe Rumi to be Rum.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 22nd, 2017, 10:01 am

dccd wrote:To fully understand you:
They both arent Rum, because they look like obvious red herrings, right?
Yes. To be specific, it's not that they look like red-herrings, they were acknowledged as suspicious by a character. Kuroda and Wakita were both openly suspected by Conan, which automatically puts them into the red-herring category, since the pattern with Gosho is that he makes sure that the characters' suspicion is hidden or averted from the target.

dccd wrote:If yes, then I absolutely agree with you.
I personally dismissed Kuroda right after the first panel he was drawn into - simply because I dont think Gosho would introduce Rum this way.
The introductions of Rumi and Wakita where somewhat more neutral.
Still Rumi have been dismissed right after her name was shown.
Wakita pretty much held the longest line since he was dismissed just in his 3rd Chapter ("Today the second boss appears" and "another disciple..").
The correct translation was "the closest subordinate of the Boss", not "second-in-command".

dccd wrote:So your pick is on Iori?
I still doubt he has anything to do with the main-story.
For his introduction: Does anybody really believe Rum would be introduced with "?????" into the manga?
I dont.
Yes. I've settled with him after recent findings.
Why not? too suspicious?

dccd wrote:PS: Im still shocked to see that about 50% of the reddit-voters believe Rumi to be Rum.
It's a funny turn of event, but then again, that means that Gosho really did write her well as a red-herring(which should be commendable).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » September 22nd, 2017, 10:15 am

Thanks for the specification and the correct translation.
I couldnt remember the correct words but nethertheless the effect stays the same.

And yeah, too suspicious.
I dont think Rum would be introduced with such a super big bang as Iori was.
But well, thats just my personal taste.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Kor
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Posts: 2889

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » September 22nd, 2017, 10:19 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
dccd wrote:PS: Im still shocked to see that about 50% of the reddit-voters believe Rumi to be Rum.
It's a funny turn of event, but then again, that means that Gosho really did write her well as a red-herring(which should be commendable).


Eh, that's just like with people who thought Okiya is Bourbon cause he drank Bourbon at the end of some file/ep. Gosho isn't utilizing some techniques he's never used, it's just that some people are still not used to his techniques.
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 22nd, 2017, 10:26 am

dccd wrote:Thanks for the specification and the correct translation.
I couldnt remember the correct words but nethertheless the effect stays the same.
I agree that it's definitely a mislead, in the sense that it wants you to think "Rum", but since Rumi-yaiba-reference was a pretty accurate portrayal of her, I don't think Wakita-yaiba-reference is false(but that doesn't make him Rum).

dccd wrote:And yeah, too suspicious.
I dont think Rum would be introduced with such a super big bang as Iori was.
But well, thats just my personal taste.
A bang that immediately was discarded as unimportant. Do you think Muga's intro was more suspicion than Wakita's intro?
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Oxynou
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Oxynou » September 22nd, 2017, 11:07 am

dccd wrote:
PS: Im still shocked to see that about 50% of the reddit-voters believe Rumi to be Rum.


Isn't it just impossible because Rumi is a woman ? I mean in an old interview ,Gosho said that he used only distilled alcohols names for the men members of the organization (and since the last case ,we saw Rumi body undressed ,so there is no possibility of her being a man disguised as a woman)
Spoiler:
Image
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » September 22nd, 2017, 12:46 pm

Could you clarify "A bang that immediately was discarded as unimportant." ?
Im not entirely sure how to understand it.

And from my point of view Iori even had by far the most suspicious/attention-drawing introduction of any character introduced in this arc.
The "????" and the scared/concerned looks of Conan and rest just skyrocked it for me.
Im aware that this is really subjective.
To other users: How did you experience his introduction?

Btw, I wouldnt compare the introductions to the ones from Bourbon-Arc.
Bourbon had quite a suspicious introduction with the mentioning of "Bourbon on the rocks", so we might tend to believe that
Gosho will repeat his pattern.
I personally dont think this will be the case this time again.

@Oxy
Wasnt it the other way around?
That Rum is a strong alcohol and indicates that Rum has to be a man?
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Oxynou
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Oxynou » September 22nd, 2017, 1:00 pm

dccd wrote:@Oxy
Wasnt it the other way around?
That Rum is a strong alcohol and indicates that Rum has to be a man?


That's what I'm saying ,I probably used the wrong words because for me strong alcohol = distilled alcohol ,sorry ^^'
Spoiler:
Image
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 22nd, 2017, 6:05 pm

dccd wrote:Could you clarify "A bang that immediately was discarded as unimportant." ?
Im not entirely sure how to understand it.
Sorry for being unclear. I meant that he was discarded by majority as "unimportant" the moment he was revealed to be Momiji's butler. But again, it's all about the narrative. No character has so far treated him as suspicious(nonetheless Rum) while he's showing his true appearance. The closest thing to that was Sonoko, which even then was being played off as a gag. I therefore don't consider him as "too obvious"(narratively speaking).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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