Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 26th, 2017, 12:14 am

It is not unlikely that Iori is lying about his age. Also he has wrinkles under his eyes, Gosho generally add wrinkles to 40+ aged characters. Also a well kept 40 is as good as a natural 30.
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2017, 7:09 am

I think it´s more reliable to think that Chikara Katsumata is Rum, we should keep an eye on Shogi:

- Shogi is named as the general´s game and Rum is the second in the command, just like a general.
- The dying message must had been fixed by Rum himself to make ASACA the criminal.
- There is a shoji piece called Promoted Bishop and it means "Uma", horse, that makes me think on Wakita´s words about weak horse. (and the main poster of Movie 20).
- As we see in Rumi´s pocket maybe there were two shogi pieces meaning.

U MASCARA + hi (represents also R) piece (rook- it´s common to be considered in chess a tower but it actually also means crow!! + K piece - (the jeweled general) - The jeweled general of the crows

Let´s resolve the anagram then with this new pieces (missing in the crime scene)

ChikArA RUM

CHIKARA RUM

Besides, Rum must be a very intelligent person so it´s not strange that he is a master on shoji (and famous)

- Also, the theory about CARASUMA and HIKATTA posted in this thread was also great and leads again to Chikara Katsumata to be Rum.



More facts:


- Chikara Katsumata appeared in the first time just after RUM name was revealed by Kir. I think that´s really Aoyama´s style.
- Shukichi is not really related to the plot and that´s so strange because he was really related to Kohji Haneda and of course, he is the Akai middle brother and a very intelligent guy.
- All this clues about Rum looks are a bit confusing but it could relate to the fact that Katsumata is a shoji player.
- A prosthetic eye it´s not so noticeable as we think and Rum wouldn't show his eye injury like Kuroda or Wakita...


In the other hand, we have the Rum arc puzzle, this is, three big Red Herrings:

- Rumi Wakasa: anagram name of Asaca Rum, Kohji´s girlfriend and bodyguard off Amanda Hughes.
- Hyoue Kuroda: Amuro´s boss and probably Papakai
- Kanenori Wakita: another BO member that must investigate and/or kill Kogoro.
Last edited by Absenta on November 26th, 2017, 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 26th, 2017, 8:19 am

PhantomWriter wrote:That would require Iori to be older than the age we're given. He would've been 13 at the time of Kohji's murder otherwise, and bodyguards in the US are 18 or older.

While there are cases where there's lies about age in the panel (Subaru's panel lists an age ~5 years younger than Shuichi's actual age), there's usually some kind of hint that they're lying about something major. And this is a series where aging oddities are a thing. However, the aging oddities, like shrinking and not aging at all, are quite uncommon and usually backed by some evidence in-story, too.
then what's your opinion on this perspective:
Spoiler:
We have Kansuke being portrayed as a Rum model. Conan's first suspicion and his only true attempt to make sense with all of the descriptions was with Kansuke (File 910).

Image

It is then followed by Conan specifically stating that Kansuke comes the closest to the descriptions of BO's no. 2 (File 913).
Kansuke is 35 years old, meaning that if Rum had the same age as the Rum model, he would have been 18 years old 17 years ago.
During Rum arc, we were introduced to the character Satami Saya whose name box showed that she was specifically 5 years younger than what her true age ended up being at the end of the case.
A bit later, we are introduced to the butler Iori Muga with Kansuke-like characteristics that had a name box that showed that he was specifically 5 years younger than Kansuke. If one makes the age-related connection, then Muga claiming a 5-year-younger age like Saya, meaning that he is actually 35(18 in the past), is foreshadowed within the arc.

Image
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on November 26th, 2017, 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Kor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » November 26th, 2017, 8:21 am

Absenta wrote:- Rumi Wakasa: anagram name of Asaca Rum, girlfriend and bodyguard off Amanda Hughes.


The age difference is a bit concerning, but who am I to interfere with love :-X

- Kanenori Wakita: another BO member that must investigate and/or kill Kogoro.


So I proposed that Katsumata might be Rum waaaaaaaaaaaaay back in late 2014 or early 2015, but here's the problem I'm having with all the theory constructions around this idea at the moment. They clearly don't know what to do with Wakita, so they invent some new function or role that hasn't been hinted or implied to exist like "new BO member" or something related to Amuro, etc. It would be easier if Gosho finally gave more hints about this guy, but so far it seems impossible to reach a well constructed conclusion about this character.
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 26th, 2017, 8:33 am

Kor wrote:The age difference is a bit concerning, but who am I to interfere with love :-X
:D I held myself back from saying this exact thing.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2017, 8:46 am

I miss Kohi´s LoL, but anyway, why not¿?

Chikara Katsumata fits really well as Rum, he has such a low profile but at the same time is a strong-skilled and famous Shogi player...Kuroda, Rumi and Wakita are too involved. The fact that Kir messaged Akai with RUM just before Katsumata appeared in TV...it´s rather suspicious.

If Chikara Katsumata is Rum is logical that he has a big interest in Shukichi, because he has the Haneda surname. At the same time, Shukichi might have suspicions on Katsumata...we shouldn't´t miss both characters cause they could rather be important.


And about Gosho´s red herrings formula....

- Vermouth Arc: Really suspicious Jodie, she is not Vermouth, Araide is Vermouth.
- Bourbon Arc: Three suspicious characters: Okiya, Sera, Amuro, one of them is Bourbon.
- Rum Arc: Three suspicious characters: Rumi, Kuroda, Wakita, non of them is Rum.


About Wakita:

Well, Gosho is making us to think that he is involved in Kohji´s Haneda case and wants to fit him in the Rumi-Kuroda-Wakita formula but I´m really confused about this character...some of you say he could be Papakai, I´ve also read he could be Amuro´s boss....I´d like him to be a BO member because we are really missing good BO members since Kir arc, with a lot of spies and stuff we need really badass inside BO! The way he speaks and meets Conan is really weird.
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » November 26th, 2017, 1:09 pm

Atleast we can be 99% sure that Chikara himself wasnt the one who drugged Mary (902 P17).

About Wakita:
" Gosho is making us to think that he is involved in Kohji´s Haneda case..."
Really, how?
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2017, 1:25 pm

dccd wrote:Atleast we can be 99% sure that Chikara himself wasnt the one who drugged Mary (902 P17).

About Wakita:
" Gosho is making us to think that he is involved in Kohji´s Haneda case..."
Really, how?


Well, we certainly don´t know how Mary was drugged or if she took the drug herself. I think Rum somehow was involved but I don´t think he messed around again like happened 17 years ago, now BO has many members to do the dirty work.

Well, we had two end pages-cases involving Rumi, Kuroda and Wakita. Wakita refeers to Shinichi/Conan, it´s pretty obvious after the Kyoto case.
Last edited by Absenta on November 26th, 2017, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » November 26th, 2017, 2:03 pm

I dont disagree with that being a possible connection.

But so far you still didnt come up with one valuable clue.
Being on the end page = being involved in the 17 years old case?
Refering to Shinichi/conan = being involved in the 17 years old case?

Dont wanna kill ur hype, but there arent as many "facts" as you mentioned above as there actually are.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2017, 4:11 pm

dccd wrote:I dont disagree with that being a possible connection.

But so far you still didnt come up with one valuable clue.
Being on the end page = being involved in the 17 years old case?
Refering to Shinichi/conan = being involved in the 17 years old case?

Dont wanna kill ur hype, but there arent as many "facts" as you mentioned above as there actually are.


I was just stating that the nuclear case of Rum arc is the Kohji Haneda Case and someway, when Wakita appeared after Rumi´s case along with Kuroda, Gosho wanted to make us think that the three of them are connected with this case (Rumi and Kuroda are obviously involved). Now we see that is pretty obvious that Wakita has something with Rum, but it´s unlikely that he was involved to the Kohji Haneda case directly.
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » November 26th, 2017, 5:22 pm

I have one important information. When your friend mister amuro came no one was work from bo instead him, and conan only concered about him, and the same thing happened now with rum; so are the Bo members still inside the anime?

This make me wonder if the conan is really looking for challenging the bo or only take one member all the time, and sp3nd years with him, and then the story is vanish by some stupid unproposed solution answer, qnd then we will wait for new member?

Can someone answer me, where the members when new character of bo is appear?
Absenta
Posts: 47

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2017, 6:06 pm

Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:I have one important information. When your friend mister amuro came no one was work from bo instead him, and conan only concered about him, and the same thing happened now with rum; so are the Bo members still inside the anime?

This make me wonder if the conan is really looking for challenging the bo or only take one member all the time, and sp3nd years with him, and then the story is vanish by some stupid unproposed solution answer, qnd then we will wait for new member?

Can someone answer me, where the members when new character of bo is appear?


Do you mean that Conan is just focused in RUM and doesn't think in the BO as a whole with the Boss, Vermouth, Gin, etc..
Dunno, I think is a narrative technique to stay focused in all Rum matters, I guess that´s why we call this arc: Rum arc.

I agree that there are many plots that just disappeared like anokata´s cell number and many other important stuff but I hope after Rum´s identity is revealed all this matters will be clear in the final arc.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 183

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » November 26th, 2017, 9:18 pm

If we consider the dying message of Haneda Kohji, two things stick out. Why Haneda was able to know the BO codename of Rum? Also if Rum was really Asaka and Kohji killer, wouldn't it be logical for Kohji just to name Asaka as he's not likely to know the codename Rum and he was injured and dying, so why would he waste his strength on something which he isn't sure of in the first place?
But if we consider Rum knew Kohji and Kohji knew Rum's social name, it makes more sense. To be precise "U MASCARA" is good part of Rum's romanaized name.
Now Katsumamata Chikara, could have been a fellow Shogi player of Kohji and thus was honourable and respectable in Kohji's pov. Thus he also got access without any suspicion, in both Kohji's and Amanda's rooms.

On the Rum suspects, recall the beginning of Rum arc and Agasa's puzzle. There was no lemonade in any cups and the whole set-up of a lemonade and three vinegar were just a lie. IT was rally four vinegars and Agasa actd as if one is lemonade. So are the Rum suspects, Iori, Kuroda, Wakita and Rumi. All are fake, as in fake Rums, but are pivotal players in this arc.
Haibara & Aika ryona
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » November 27th, 2017, 12:59 am

Absenta wrote:
Haibara & Aika ryona wrote:I have one important information. When your friend mister amuro came no one was work from bo instead him, and conan only concered about him, and the same thing happened now with rum; so are the Bo members still inside the anime?

This make me wonder if the conan is really looking for challenging the bo or only take one member all the time, and sp3nd years with him, and then the story is vanish by some stupid unproposed solution answer, qnd then we will wait for new member?

Can someone answer me, where the members when new character of bo is appear?


Do you mean that Conan is just focused in RUM and doesn't think in the BO as a whole with the Boss, Vermouth, Gin, etc..
Dunno, I think is a narrative technique to stay focused in all Rum matters, I guess that´s why we call this arc: Rum arc.

I agree that there are many plots that just disappeared like anokata´s cell number and many other important stuff but I hope after Rum´s identity is revealed all this matters will be clear in the final arc.


Nice so, basically just because it is an arc, or whatever you call "it narrative technique", then the all characters should go out nowhere, and just wait for new characters, and the same thing will happen everytime thatwe will have new character. Howe this is right thing?

Another Nice, is that you agree with me, but still hope; so why I will tell that don't hope; is thsat because I completed the half of the pest episodes with the half of the most awfukl episodes, which I mean the best episodes was from 1 to 450, thew awful from after until now, and the upcoming is nowhere to be ok, only few episodes of these episode are good; so I don't have any hope for this anime.

Another important thing, is that I had a few time that people answered me here in this forum, and some of them was argue with mee for my answers for dc anime, but the the important opinion, is that they say, I agree that some of them, or I have to admit that some of them; so if they agree with me for my opinion , then why they argue with me.

Surely, that doesn't mean that you don't have to argue with me, I am writing this to ensure that no one understand the upper as no one should answer me, but what I am meaning is that why I fell that they want to fight,m or kill me for what I am saying about DC Anime
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » November 27th, 2017, 9:13 am

Zerozaki4869 wrote:There was no lemonade in any cups and the whole set-up of a lemonade and three vinegar were just a lie. IT was rally four vinegars and Agasa actd as if one is lemonade.
That's not true. DB specifically said that they saw him pour lemon juice in one of them. All of them ended up having vinegar in them, but one of them still had lemon juice in it. When the DB tasted the rest, the bad vinegar taste easily overshadowed any potential lemon taste.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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