Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
- PhantomWriter
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Is it possible Kohji and Amanda's food was poisoned with the prototype drug and Amanda went back to her room? The scene at Kohji's room had dishes and forks and so on, some of which he used to obscure the message of the mirror, that Amanda had also handled. Her fingerprints were there and Haibara speculated they may have ordered room service.
Wait staff and similar types are generally ignored or given a pass by people in security positions, so long as they look like they're supposed to be doing what they're doing, as opposed to trying to sneak and slink around.
Wait staff and similar types are generally ignored or given a pass by people in security positions, so long as they look like they're supposed to be doing what they're doing, as opposed to trying to sneak and slink around.
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- MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
The only issue with this is that it first of all would mean that Amanda didn't eat/drink until she went back to her room(since I would assume that the effect takes place almost immediately). Otherwise, she would have died in kohji's room.PhantomWriter wrote:Is it possible Kohji and Amanda's food was poisoned with the prototype drug and Amanda went back to her room? The scene at Kohji's room had dishes and forks and so on, some of which he used to obscure the message of the mirror, that Amanda had also handled. Her fingerprints were there and Haibara speculated they may have ordered room service.
Second of all, it doesn't explain the defensive wounds on Kohji's body, since there would have been no struggle if he just died from eating/drinking snacks/tea.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
That would be most unfortunate, because that'd just means we spent 100 chapters already on a 100% unsolvable mystery (not just unsolvable, but "unguessable" too). It'd be very poor structure and bad pacing.Themaninarmor wrote: For now... I believe RUM is a character which not appear yet.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Assuming we're during a Rum arc, and not during a someone/thing arc.Kor wrote:That would be most unfortunate, because that'd just means we spent 100 chapters already on a 100% unsolvable mystery (not just unsolvable, but "unguessable" too). It'd be very poor structure and bad pacing.Themaninarmor wrote: For now... I believe RUM is a character which not appear yet.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
It is very much plausible that amanda was poisoned by rum, with a treat but that has to happen on her room.
Else it won't make much of a sense
.
Else it won't make much of a sense
.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
I was checking to see if I could nip in the bud a possible theory I had. Seems it's a red herring, then, or at least only the setup for why the scene has broken crockery everywhere and nobody finding it suspicious.MeiTanteixX wrote:The only issue with this is that it first of all would mean that Amanda didn't eat/drink until she went back to her room(since I would assume that the effect takes place almost immediately). Otherwise, she would have died in kohji's room.
Second of all, it doesn't explain the defensive wounds on Kohji's body, since there would have been no struggle if he just died from eating/drinking snacks/tea.
As for a few other thoughts, after rereading the contradictory testimonies case, I'm wondering if it's a similar trick, where it's the perception of behavior on the part of different Organization members, but Rum isn't particularly old, feminine, or strong. That is to say, old or perceived as old compared to the Organization members who describe him as such, and so on. Or, perhaps, Rum operates in different capacities where each of those traits shows up more prominently depending on his work, or he somehow fits all three descriptions, but different people focus on different elements. Problem is, then, narrowing it down to which one it could be.
While I've seen speculation about Chikara and he's a person of interest and, thematically/plot structure-wise, him being Rum would tie in Shuukichi, Kohji, and Amanda better than some of the other suspects (namely Wakita and Iori), we don't have much to go on about who he is for the moment.
Shuukichi shows up in a lot of cases in this arc when I've been going back through things, which struck me as especially odd, given he shows up once or twice before the start of the Rum arc and now he's showing up so consistently. It's strange, I'll admit, though that doesn't necessarily mean anything about Rum. (Shukichi's still connected to the plot regardless of if Rum is his shogi rival, what with Kohji's death and everything involving his family.)
He did that with the Bourbon arc, though, so it's a valid worry, even if it's awful writing/pacing/plotting/etc. Shuichi as Subaru and Masumi were introduced as Bourbon suspects before Rei as Amuro (Bourbon arc started up in file 622, but he didn't show up as himself until 793). If you include his disguise as Scar Akai, the timeline's better, though it's still not possible to point to who Bourbon is under the disguise, since Amuro wasn't introduced. However, there's a lot more plot so far in the Rum arc compared to the start of the Bourbon arc.Kor wrote:That would be most unfortunate, because that'd just means we spent 100 chapters already on a 100% unsolvable mystery (not just unsolvable, but "unguessable" too). It'd be very poor structure and bad pacing.Themaninarmor wrote: For now... I believe RUM is a character which not appear yet.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Copy-pasted something I wrote in the Discord server:PhantomWriter wrote:I was checking to see if I could nip in the bud a possible theory I had. Seems it's a red herring, then, or at least only the setup for why the scene has broken crockery everywhere and nobody finding it suspicious.
Rum's actions 17 years ago(my current deduction):
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
While there are people who survive APTX, a major plot point is that nobody who took either APTX or the prototype before Kudo came up as missing instead of being a confirmed corpse. That was Haibara's whole reason for searching for Shinichi and lying on the form later that he was confirmed dead, because he was the only survivor and she wanted to study him instead of kill him. The idea of "Asaka was poisoned" contradicts the Org's current behavior, since they're acting like Asaka is still alive and a threat, and they think the drug is entirely effective.
There's no information about unknown DNA being left at the scene, either. Evidence of a struggle with Kohji's defensive wounds, evidence of Amanda having been in the room at some point prior due to her fingerprints, and Kohji's message, but not "we found an unknown person's blood" or something similar. That would, were I an investigator, be an instant red flag. I'd speculate that whoever's DNA it is is the attacker and Kohji managed to give them some kind of wound in their struggle.
I got the impression that Shuichi was commenting on Tsutomu having vanished without a trace. You can't just make a corpse completely disappear like magic and Shuichi knows that the people responsible for his [possible] death don't mind leaving bodies behind. They left Amanda's body behind to be found by investigators, after all.
Edit for clarity.
There's no information about unknown DNA being left at the scene, either. Evidence of a struggle with Kohji's defensive wounds, evidence of Amanda having been in the room at some point prior due to her fingerprints, and Kohji's message, but not "we found an unknown person's blood" or something similar. That would, were I an investigator, be an instant red flag. I'd speculate that whoever's DNA it is is the attacker and Kohji managed to give them some kind of wound in their struggle.
I got the impression that Shuichi was commenting on Tsutomu having vanished without a trace. You can't just make a corpse completely disappear like magic and Shuichi knows that the people responsible for his [possible] death don't mind leaving bodies behind. They left Amanda's body behind to be found by investigators, after all.
Edit for clarity.
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- dccd
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
The case happened 17 years ago.
I hardly doubt that DNA-research was developed at that time.
I dont agree with "they're acting like Asaka is still alive and a threat".
They´re acting like they´re worried about the dying message - yes.
But they didnt mentioned Asaka even once yet, did they?
But I obviously believe that she/he is alive and on the run.
I hardly doubt that DNA-research was developed at that time.
I dont agree with "they're acting like Asaka is still alive and a threat".
They´re acting like they´re worried about the dying message - yes.
But they didnt mentioned Asaka even once yet, did they?
But I obviously believe that she/he is alive and on the run.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
dccd wrote:The case happened 17 years ago.
I hardly doubt that DNA-research was developed at that time.
I dont agree with "they're acting like Asaka is still alive and a threat".
They´re acting like they´re worried about the dying message - yes.
But they didnt mentioned Asaka even once yet, did they?
But I obviously believe that she/he is alive and on the run.
DNA was first used in courts in the US in 1987 and started being used more frequently as of 1994. (The US standard being noted here because of the case being in the US.) DC as a series operates on a floating timeline, so 17 years ago now would be 2000. Even if we concede that they didn't have that and we're using the first year of publishing as the basis (1994-17=1977), then MeitanteixX's theory still doesn't work, since Shuichi shouldn't have knowledge of any blood/hair/etc. being Tsutomu's.
I'll admit to an assumption there, but the Org. isn't particularly shy about leaving corpses lying around, or property damage, so long as it can't be traced back to individual members of the Organization or leaves particular details about the Organization itself behind. (Ano Kata's problem with Pisco's assignment was him being caught on camera doing it, thus Gin killing him and burning his body to hide that the killer was killed.) Gin just leaves Shinichi to die from APTX at the very start and shoots Akemi and leaves her to die. Rum left both Amanda's and Kohji's corpses. Vermouth left several bodies during her stint in New York as a serial killer and planned on flat-out murdering Araide. Chianti and Korn were prepared to simply shoot Kogoro, Conan, that politician, and Scar Akai at different points. Gin and Vodka were planning on blowing everything up during the Mystery Train arc.
That's also the same principle the Night Baron virus works on, since only Organization members accessing specific computers can access the encrypted information. Anyone else who tries gets that data deleted which is dramatic and noteworthy for a person trying to access it, but still keeps internal details about the Org. a secret from them.
Kudo's poisoning also shows a precedent for agents not considering someone truly dead and classifying them as missing/unknown unless they have actual evidence of a corpse or someone lies and changes the record. That was why Rikumichi's body and fingerprints were needed in Shuichi's faked death. There being no corpse for Asaka and having vanished without a trace would mean the Organization would assume missing, not dead.
[Edit for clarity.]
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Yes, according to Haibara, out of all people on the list, only Shinichi's death was not confirmed. However, there's a big difference between Shinichi's case and possibly Asaka's. Gin was in a rush and had no time to confirm Shinichi's death, while Rum, who had time to clean up the mess in Amanda's room, would have been able to directly confirm that her heart has stopped after drugging her. My point is that after Asaka disappeared, the BO could be seeing it as a disappearance of a corpse rather than of a living person, and have marked her as "confirmed dead". Since we know that Miyano's prototype drug(SB) and Sherry's(APTX) are two different drugs, the non-lethal side-effect could work differently and possibly put Asaka's body in a state of death(before whatever-effect-that-doesn't-kill took place).PhantomWriter wrote:While there are people who survive APTX, a major plot point is that nobody who took either APTX or the prototype before Kudo came up as missing instead of being a confirmed corpse. That was Haibara's whole reason for searching for Shinichi and lying on the form later that he was confirmed dead, because he was the only survivor and she wanted to study him instead of kill him. The idea of "Asaka was poisoned" contradicts the Org's current behavior, since they're acting like Asaka is still alive and a threat, and they think the drug is entirely effective.
If Gosho were to introduce a hidden side-effect of the Miyano's prototype, he has multiple of ways he could explain it, just like how he went out of his way to explain/clear up why Kohji's name was two rows under Shinichi's and Gin saying that Shinichi is the first guinea pig.
PhantomWriter wrote:There's no information about unknown DNA being left at the scene, either. Evidence of a struggle with Kohji's defensive wounds, evidence of Amanda having been in the room at some point prior due to her fingerprints, and Kohji's message, but not "we found an unknown person's blood" or something similar. That would, were I an investigator, be an instant red flag. I'd speculate that whoever's DNA it is is the attacker and Kohji managed to give them some kind of wound in their struggle.
I got the impression that Shuichi was commenting on Tsutomu having vanished without a trace. You can't just make a corpse completely disappear like magic and Shuichi knows that the people responsible for his [possible] death don't mind leaving bodies behind. They left Amanda's body behind to be found by investigators, after all.
The reason I mentioned this is because Akai said "father's body", which implies that there was an indication of a potential death. "Blood, DNA, etc being left in the crime scene" were my explanations to why Akai would phrase it as "father's body"(or like you said "[possible] death") because they are the common indications of a potential death when a person is missing. After getting a text that indicates that he's alive, you wouldn't just consider the possibility that he's dead for no reason.[Which is why Akai is under the impression that his father's body is missing]
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
You seem to be forgetting about Tsutomu's "Death Message". If that death message came before Kohji case your theory can be possible, if the reverse is true then you can't put your bets on that.MeiTanteixX wrote:The reason I mentioned this is because Akai said "father's body", which implies that there was an indication of a potential death. "Blood, DNA, etc being left in the crime scene" were my explanations to why Akai would phrase it as "father's body"(or like you said "[possible] death") because they are the common indications of a potential death when a person is missing. After getting a text that indicates that he's alive, you wouldn't just consider the possibility that he's dead for no reason..
As of now the it seems the Kohji case was followed by Tsutomu's death letter. So your speculation looks very unlikely in the given scenario.
Also a point to note about your Asaka's poisoning(speculated), here we really don't know that whether this APTX(17 year old) was really the Silver Bullet or not. If it really was silver bullet then Haibara's comment about how BO wanted her to develop a completely different drug sounds totally fake. So if are to take haibara's comment at face value then this APTX wasn't Silver Bullet rather than that it was a confidential prototype which even Gin is unaware of.
I also think that the person other than Haibara who has exclusive access to that list is Rum, if that wasn't the case then Gin wouldn't have told that Shinichi was the first test case and the drug(new APTX) was a brand new poison.
As far as I'm concerned my theory about Kohji case is the following.
Spoiler:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Unfortunately, I've read this thread months ago so I can't really discuss point by point but I remember I agreed to most of the thread writer speculations regarding the new characters...
i want to share my thoughts again since I registered here as a member & I want to make a use of it
- Wakasa Rumi the teacher ; definitely she's not Vermouth for the way she acted and tested Conan intelligence many times by throwing cases to him to solve & watch him , moreover she helped him get the hint from that basement case , it's not Vermouth style to help Conan get the hints since she's aware he's already smarter than her ..
So probably this character is the bodyguard from that old case , who got the lost evidence from the crime scene .. but it's still puzzling me how did she know about Conan intelligence ? She clearly approached Conan school and not Mouri office & she doesn't look that smart to be a BO member
- I've a random thought about the Haneda old case, I remember at Shuukichi Henada shogi match they mentioned how he gets better at playing when he eats sweet things or something!
So i'm wondering if this related to the old case in any way since the killed Haneda was a shogi player too and a role model for Shuukichi, so maybe Shuukichi followed the killed famous player for having a sweet tooth before hard thinking or a match - why am I mentioning this - because Haneda asked for room service before getting killed meeting with Amanda who love shogi game too, maybe they were going to play? Sorry if it sounds stupid but I just linked it as a Gosho hint for what happened that night...
And what if the third party RUM know about that meeting was going to happen & they will ask for dessert room service since he's a shogi player himself and quiet familiar with Haneda & Amanda meeting style...
( Just forgot about it )
- Wakita : the chef from the restaurant next to the detective office, well I'm sure if Gosho added him to mess up with us then he's a strong character who will end up related to the upcoming development, when Gosho introduces 3 suspect characters usually they're all important even if they were not all RUM, I mean the teacher is important character to the story even tho she's not BO, the new police chief with one eye is important too although I believe he's on the good side and will help Conan later
so that leave us with the 3rd suspect which is Wakita, so surely he's an imp character too, but is he RUM ?
Although it would be mean from Gosho if he introduced 3 characters however no one of them was RUM but if he's really the 2nd man in the organization it's acceptable to cheat this time and shock us with a RUM who appeared much earlier before
Anyway, back to Wakita, I don't think he's on the good side , the way he said he replaced someone who went into a major accident doesn't make it feel right & that obvious
drawing of him being a muscular heartless character ... could be he's another secret police
Well, Bourbon is from the secret police & do bad things too and I'm not sure why the secret police have such a character among them! I mean i'm a little disappointed in Bourbon he's not as dangerous as Gin and not innocent as Sera, I can't point where he's standing for Conan... It feels like he'll never do a bad thing for Conan and the others not because of Vermouth but because he's not really that dangerous. The vibes Gosho gave before introducing him, I thought he would be a little more dangerous than this...
Well, back to Wakita, I hope he's a BO a real one ! & who sent him ?
Maybe RUM ? RUM was going to solve the mess and get rid of whoever look into the old case which is Kogoro, so if he's a 2nd man in command and that old aged , probably he'll send other members to investigate togo...
- For now the only character I could imagine to be RUM is the shogi player who won over Shuukichi Haneda and appeared during the RUM chapters, the 2nd in command should be that old at least or I'll think less of this organization.
i want to share my thoughts again since I registered here as a member & I want to make a use of it
- Wakasa Rumi the teacher ; definitely she's not Vermouth for the way she acted and tested Conan intelligence many times by throwing cases to him to solve & watch him , moreover she helped him get the hint from that basement case , it's not Vermouth style to help Conan get the hints since she's aware he's already smarter than her ..
So probably this character is the bodyguard from that old case , who got the lost evidence from the crime scene .. but it's still puzzling me how did she know about Conan intelligence ? She clearly approached Conan school and not Mouri office & she doesn't look that smart to be a BO member
- I've a random thought about the Haneda old case, I remember at Shuukichi Henada shogi match they mentioned how he gets better at playing when he eats sweet things or something!
So i'm wondering if this related to the old case in any way since the killed Haneda was a shogi player too and a role model for Shuukichi, so maybe Shuukichi followed the killed famous player for having a sweet tooth before hard thinking or a match - why am I mentioning this - because Haneda asked for room service before getting killed meeting with Amanda who love shogi game too, maybe they were going to play? Sorry if it sounds stupid but I just linked it as a Gosho hint for what happened that night...
And what if the third party RUM know about that meeting was going to happen & they will ask for dessert room service since he's a shogi player himself and quiet familiar with Haneda & Amanda meeting style...
( Just forgot about it )
- Wakita : the chef from the restaurant next to the detective office, well I'm sure if Gosho added him to mess up with us then he's a strong character who will end up related to the upcoming development, when Gosho introduces 3 suspect characters usually they're all important even if they were not all RUM, I mean the teacher is important character to the story even tho she's not BO, the new police chief with one eye is important too although I believe he's on the good side and will help Conan later
so that leave us with the 3rd suspect which is Wakita, so surely he's an imp character too, but is he RUM ?
Although it would be mean from Gosho if he introduced 3 characters however no one of them was RUM but if he's really the 2nd man in the organization it's acceptable to cheat this time and shock us with a RUM who appeared much earlier before
Anyway, back to Wakita, I don't think he's on the good side , the way he said he replaced someone who went into a major accident doesn't make it feel right & that obvious
drawing of him being a muscular heartless character ... could be he's another secret police
Well, Bourbon is from the secret police & do bad things too and I'm not sure why the secret police have such a character among them! I mean i'm a little disappointed in Bourbon he's not as dangerous as Gin and not innocent as Sera, I can't point where he's standing for Conan... It feels like he'll never do a bad thing for Conan and the others not because of Vermouth but because he's not really that dangerous. The vibes Gosho gave before introducing him, I thought he would be a little more dangerous than this...
Well, back to Wakita, I hope he's a BO a real one ! & who sent him ?
Maybe RUM ? RUM was going to solve the mess and get rid of whoever look into the old case which is Kogoro, so if he's a 2nd man in command and that old aged , probably he'll send other members to investigate togo...
- For now the only character I could imagine to be RUM is the shogi player who won over Shuukichi Haneda and appeared during the RUM chapters, the 2nd in command should be that old at least or I'll think less of this organization.
Last edited by Spimer on July 18th, 2017, 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected grammar
Reason: Corrected grammar
- MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
that's a new one. That does make sense. So if Kohji ordered that because he knew was gonna do hard thinking, then it makes sense that he was playing Shogi with Amanda, which would become the best leadway for introducing the involvement of Shogi pieces in the dying message. I fully agree with this assessment. Nice finding.Dr-anime wrote:- i've a random thought about the hanadra old case , i remember at shickuchi hanade shogi match they mentioned how he gets better at playing when he eats sweet things or something !
so i'm wondering if this related to the old case in any way since the killed hanade was a shogi player too and a role model for shickuci , so maybe shiucki followed the killed famous player for having a sweet tooth before hard thinking or a match - why am i mentioning this - because the hanade asked for room service before getting killed meeting with amanda who love shogi game too , maybe they were going to play ? sry it sound stupid but i just linked it as a gosho hint for what happened that night..
I think we are past that point the moment we had a teenager as the head of an advanced research, and a highranked member that doesn't age.Dr-anime wrote:the 2nd in command should be that old at least or i'll think less of this organization
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)
Volume version Pocket stuffs
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.