Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Absenta

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

Yes, that is true. I mean, interpreting Gosho´s answers to interviews is part of my fantasy but it also supports the fact that we can´t take 100% for sure all Gosho´s answers. Maybe we can take more trustworhy the ones that state for example: characters that are not anokata but still.... I understand , however, that must be hard to just answer plot related questions from fans, and most of the times we don´t know Gosho real time reaction in his face. If truly the Miyanos were alive, Gosho would have this in mind from realy early in the series but just didn´t know hot to re-introduce them, after linking Elena to Rei, and also to Mary when finishing the Bourbon arc, opens some options into the Rum arc to show more about the Miyanos and start to give sense of what really happened to them.
hizami

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by hizami »

These have been three of my takeaways from Wakasa Rumi:

Wakasa Rumi and Elena Miyano look identical (except for hair color) and act identically.
-Additional note: Elena Miyano was blonde in Amuro's flashbacks but Anime Episodes 340-341 show an image of Elena Miyano with brown hair (as the organization's Hell Angel) - it is unclear if this is the case in the manga for obvious reasons. This would indicate Elena's hair color darkened from blonde to dark brown as she got deeper into the hell that is the organization.

Wakasa Rumi seems to have had some involvement in the APTX 4869 research (as Elena Miyano did).
-She has access to the APTX 4869 victims list and seems to be unsurprised about its ability to shrink people.

Bourbon seems recognizes Wakasa and Wakasa seems to recognize Bourbon (and seems frightened that Bourbon might recognize her).
-Concurrently, memories of Elena Miyano has also been brought back into Bourbon's mind.

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."

My question would be "if Gosho didn't 'confirm' the Miyanos deaths, would you be convinced of a high likelihood that Wakasa Rumi is Elena Miyano?"

Of course, Gosho's answer in the fan Q&A suggests that the Miyanos are dead, which may be a dealbreaker to some. My personal position in terms of Q&A's are that they can be useful hints (especially if multiple such Q&A's corroborate each other), but shouldn't be taken as 100% absolute. For instance, many arguments against why Chikaru Katsumata was not Rum utilized not just information from Q&A, but many of the Rum clues in the manga. People probably just resorted to the Q&A as an end-all, be-all when they realized they were arguing with a brick wall. If Gosho truly wanted to make some information absolute, it would be well established in the manga. But all the manga has said is that Pisco claimed that the Miyanos burned in a fire (and we've seen people recover from much more fatal-seeming deaths). Absolutely nothing about seeing any burnt bodies or any DNA tests proving they died.

There's also the idea that too many people have "faked their deaths". In front of the reader, the only person who we've seen so far who has appeared to have died but actually hasn't is Akai Shuichi. Camel faked his death but it doesn't really count since it was somewhat expectable and revealed in the next chapter. From the Organization's view, in addition to Shuichi and Camel, we have Shinichi, Shiho, and Mary who shrunk due to APTX 4869, as well as Shiho's "second" death on the train. (Not sure if this is a complete list - this list feels rather too short but I can't think of anyone else who faked their death atm.) I'm rather unsurprised by this - given that the organization chases any enemy who they believe is still alive and anyone related to that enemy, it's not surprising that many enemies of the organization are forced to fake their death to survive. It's reasonable to expect around 1-2 more "fake deaths" to be added to this list by the time the manga ends. 3 might be pushing it.

But suppose we were to assume Elena Miyano was 100% dead. Then who is Wakasa Rumi, who is identical to Elena Miyano in terms of appearance, behavior, and even experiences? Perhaps this doppelganger is a secret third sister to Mary and Elena, or even a secret third sister to Akemi and Shiho? I myself struggle to find a convincing theory that explains all three aspects of Wakasa Rumi listed above if we assume Elena Miyano is dead - which is why I choose to believe that the Q&A question was simply a fluke - but this does not mean that such a theory cannot exist, just that I have not seen it been proposed yet. Perhaps someone who truly believes Elena Miyano is 100% confirmed dead would be up to the task.

Though regardless of whether or not Wakasa Rumi is Elena Miyano, I had an interesting, somewhat tangential thought: Assuming Wakasa was indeed Asaka, and she indeed had knowledge of APTX 4869's properties during the case from 17 years ago, perhaps Kohji Haneda was made aware of the 1 in 1 million chance that APTX 4869 shrinks the user. Then Kohji Haneda knew ahead of time that he would likely be administered the APTX 4869 (or perhaps even took it himself) and assured Wakasa Rumi with his Watchtower Bishop that he would be lucky. Then Wakasa Rumi's hatred of good luck charms would stem from the fact that Kohji's fate was less than fortunate. This is why Gosho had emphasized that Kohji died from APTX 4869, but hasn't yet confirmed that Amanda Hughes died from APTX 4869 (which would be as simple as showing her name on the victims list as well) - just that she has died of mysterious unknown causes.
Absenta

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

That´s an indeed interesting theory I´ve thought about, Kohji taking himself the drug somehow. But it can also be that Kohji didn´t take any drug too.
One thing is clear: he appears in the list and that means something, but I can´t avoid to think how similar looks the scene in which Ai (Episode ONE) marks Shinichi as dead knowing that he is alive and the scene were Rumi is looking the APTX list and smiles.

I feel that once it´s cleared up what happened in that case 17 years ago, we will see the climax of the arc and we will know most of the answers.

I feel that Gosho originally planned this case early in the series. Kohji Haneda´s name appeared in the list that Ai mentioned when she was first introduced, the fact that was really close to Shinichi leads me to believe that Gosho´s plan was to make this case really nuclear into the final resolution and the true name of BO: Karasuma Group, linking it also to the Miyanos and so. I don´t think Rum even was in those original plans but for sure Gosho didn´t know that the series would last so long.
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K_F_G_N_T

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by K_F_G_N_T »

My speculations on how Wakita can still be Tsutomu Akai even after file 1066:
Rum used Tsu who was a low ranked BO member to test Rye.
He had a camera attached either to his clothes or as his blank eyeball from which Rum recieved Camel's photo and sent it to Korn.
When Camel messed up he had no other choice than to act like he doesn't recognize Shuichi like Akai did with Bourbon during Scotch's death.
He also knew that there was no immediate danger to Shuichi as area was already cordoned by FBI.
Absenta

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

That could be a strong possibility, Wakita being Tsutomu Akai, it´s a bit crazy but there could be some interesting points that support the theory:

- Wakita´s rat teeth:

That could imply that Wakita is the ultimate rat of BO, and Wakita most probably has the codename Whiskey which links to all the other spyes/traitor codenames on BO: Rye, Bourbon and Scotch (even Irish in Movie 13)

- It´s like encountering a demon in the darkness:

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It´s not yet clear why Gin says the same phrase as Mary, but most probably it´s because Gin knows Tsutomu Akai inside BO and has hear this phrase before from him.

- Wakita file first appearance:

Wakita first appearance in the manga is just the next file after The Wizard of the ripples case, were Tsutomu Akai is first mentioned.

- Wakita´s appearance hints:

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This appearance with the hats reminds somehow to Tsutomu, and the fact that he is Kogoro´s apprentice detective also hints that Tsutomu, himself, was a detective. Plus Tsutomu´s personality should be closer to Shukichii´s.

- Relation to Rumi Wakasa:

If Wakita was truly Rum or pure BO I don´t quite understand why after seeing Rumi in the newspaper she can be still safe or they didn´t have any encounter yet. If Rumi is truly Elena Miyano then, Wakita could have accomplished her in that quote and somehow they are working in paralell. I´m sure that if the Miyanos didn´t die, Tsutomu could have helped them from inside BO. Rumi also said in her first case that she liked Whiskey.
hizami

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by hizami »

Though I support the idea that Tsutomu Akai may not be dead, I personally don't like the idea that Wakita Kanenori is not RUM.

However, there is something interesting to note in the current situation of the manga: We supposedly know RUM's identity, but Conan does not know it yet. It's very odd for the reader to be given information that the main character does not yet have. Especially since the early reveal of RUM's identity will overshadow Conan's realization later on. Of course, given the circumstances there would have been little opportunity for the RUM reveal scene to occur at a similar time to Conan's realization (but could probably have been done simply by positioning the recent temple case's anagram hint to before the RUM reveal).

There are two possibilities in this case:

1) Conan realizes who RUM is at the end of the next file which is another random murder case, and it's not Wakita Kanenori. Both reader and character are surprised. Then suddenly out of the blue there are a bunch of files released where [insert actual RUM identity here] is the main focus to give us more insight on the case from 17 years ago, perhaps even the significance of the shogi piece.

2) Conan realizes who RUM is at the end of the next file which is another random murder case, and it's Wakita Kanenori. He quickly runs back to his house to tell Yusaku and Subaru, and is told "Good job boyo, but we already know because Bourbon told us during the late night tea party". Then we get more insight into the case from 17 years ago, perhaps even the significance of the shogi piece.

As in regards to why Wakasa Rumi is not in immediate danger, think back to the case of the song called ASACA. In Ch. 954 Bourbon talking to Vermouth says:
Investigate "it" before it goes public... and if needed, crush it... right?
Presumably the "it" in this case is the song which is about to go public. But why would a song going public be a threat to the organization? Of course, just as Bourbon threatens Vermouth with his knowledge, Asaka threatens the organization with her knowledge, specifically her knowledge of APTX 4869 and access to the APTX 4869 victims list. Perhaps they suspected the song would contain such information about the APTX 4869. Then the organization is unable to kill Wakasa Rumi even if they suspect she is Asaka because they risk a large portion of the organization's existence and end goal being released to the general public.

If it is important for Wakasa/Asaka to keep herself hidden, then why would she risk her photo being released in the newspaper by getting involved in cases? (And presumably, she could request the papers to not release her picture anyways as Shinichi Kudo does). It's because she knew she wouldn't be in danger.
Absenta

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

I personally think Wakita is not Rum. Rum is the second in command , if he would be ever caught that would mean nearly the end of BO, and could lead them directly to Karasuma. Actually, that´s why Akai got so close to Gin, because he believed that he was close to the boss.

Being infiltrated as a Sushi Chef would be too risky in case they would have a plan to trap him. For me all the signs tell us that Rum is just like Vermouth, a kinda famous person who nobody would suspect of. Famous but discreet, like Chikara Katsumata. I do like what you expose about Rumi holding her cards with the APTX stuff so she doesn´t get kileld, however the fact that she is infiltrating in school close to Conan and Haibara puts them on serious danger, if BO is overlooking Rumi (despite they can´t kill her that would put them in the target.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

As for the identity of Wakasa , when Haibara said that she likes her and for this reason , fans thought that Wakasa is from Haibara's family , I think this is true so let me answer some questions about Rumi , Wakita , Kuroda and Tsutomo :

1- I think most of us agree that Wakasa is the bodyguard "Asaka" .

2- Why does Haibara love Rumi ? in the first appearance of Wakasa ... Haibara did not show any reaction indicating that she knows or loves her ..... While in the third appearance of Rumi , Haibara said that she loves her . So the answer to that question will be in the second appearance , when the Detective Boys were at Rumi’s house , and Rumi said she would drive them home when they finish drawing . Gosho did not focus on that point much , but I think it is important . On the way to Agasa's house , Rumi explained to Haibara that she knows that Haibara is the daughter of Atsushi and Elena . Also explained to her the relationship between them . that situation is very similar to Haibara's admission to Conan that she is Sherry and she knows that Conan is Kudo Shinchi on their way to Agasa's house .


3- Could Wakasa be Elena herself ? I don't think so for several reasons : Elena's hair is yellow while Wakasa's is black ... Elena's age in Bourbon's flashback was 29 and she should now be almost 48 years old while Wakasa is now 38 .... Wakasa was Amanda's bodyguard , which means She is strong, but I think Elena is a good doctor , i mean , she isn't strong and Elena does not like problems or fights , that is why she advised Bourbon in Flashback to be a polite boy .... Wakasa is very smart in solving cases , while Elena may be like Haibara , i mean thay are a doctor and scientist but they don't have intelligence of Detectives like Wakasa and Conan .... Elena was pregnant in Bourbon's flashback and gave birth to Haibara at the time of Kohji case , so I don't think Elena had the luxury of her time working as Amanda's bodyguard .


4- Could Wakasa be Akemi herself ? I don't think so for the same reasons , like different age , strength , intelligence, also Akemi was very young at time of Kohji case , and Akemi is dead now .

5- Could Wakasa be sister of Mary and Elena ? This is a possible , but I think it is also wrong because Wakasa is supposed to have yellow hair like Elena and Mary's ... Also when Atsushi said that Elena's sister had warned about Karasuma group ,, Atsushi's way of talking indicates that Elena has one sister , which is Mary .

6- Could Wakasa be sister of Asushi ? Frankly , I lean towards this theory because there is a similarity between Atsushi and Wakasa in eyes , eyebrows and hair color . Generally i think Wakasa has a relationship somehow with Atsushi .


7- Could Tsutomo be Wakita ? I don't think so for many reasons : Through Wakita's features I think he is Japanese .... Tsutomo is very smart like his son Shukichi while Wakita is not that smart in solving cases .... Tsutomo's eye pupils are large while Wakita's eye pupils are small like dot .... Wakita He has one eye, while Tsutomo has two healthy eyes and this appeared when Vermouth disguised as Tsutomo ..... Wakita is rich person and has a great resemblance between him and Jirokichi so I think Wakita is Jjirokichi's brother , So Wakita might be Sonoko's grandfather .


8- Could Kuroda be Tsutomo ? I don't think so for same reasons : Kuroda remembers Haneda Kohji as if there is relationship between them and tries to look and solve his murder case although it was a crime that occurred 17 years ago , but I think still Kuroda can't solve that case .... There is similarity Between Kuroda and Haneda Kohji , so I think Kuroda is Kohji's father ......Kuroda is Japanese ... Tsutomo is very smart like his son Shukichi while Kuroda is not that great in solving cases ..... Tsutomo's eye pupil are large while Kuroda's eye pupils are small like dot .... Kuroda has one eye, while Tsutomu has two healthy eyes .

9- So where is Tsutomo ? I think he is dead because members of BO know his name and his identity very well and I don't think they care to search for him if he was managed to escape from them , so they may have killed him after he solved Kohji case ..... Also Tsutomo has been in hiding for 17 years and hasn't taken reaction to save Akai and Mary from being killed by Vermouth and Gin ...... so till now I accept the fact that he is dead .

10- Is there a possibility that Tsutomo is alive ? It is possible, but Gosho considers Tsutomo as a special character , so I don't think he will show us in that clear way in the form of Kuroda or Wakita ....... So if Tsutomo is alive , Gosho might show him in the last arc of Anokata/Boss .


Quick summary of my speech :
Wakasa is related to Haibara through Atsushi ... Wakasa is neither Elena nor Akemi nor Elena's sister .... Wakasa is Asaka ..... Wakita is from Suzuki family ... Kuroda is Kohji's father .... Tsutomu is dead .
blackmoon

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by blackmoon »

hizami wrote:
February 20th, 2021, 10:45 am
Though I support the idea that Tsutomu Akai may not be dead, I personally don't like the idea that Wakita Kanenori is not RUM.
...
There are two possibilities in this case:

1) Conan realizes who RUM is at the end of the next file which is another random murder case, and it's not Wakita Kanenori. Both reader and character are surprised. Then suddenly out of the blue there are a bunch of files released where [insert actual RUM identity here] is the main focus to give us more insight on the case from 17 years ago, perhaps even the significance of the shogi piece.

2) Conan realizes who RUM is at the end of the next file which is another random murder case, and it's Wakita Kanenori. He quickly runs back to his house to tell Yusaku and Subaru, and is told "Good job boyo, but we already know because Bourbon told us during the late night tea party". Then we get more insight into the case from 17 years ago, perhaps even the significance of the shogi piece.
Or... another possibility maybe Conan "figured" out who RUM may be but got a totally wrong idea as he deducted it in the wrong direction and mistook Rumi to be the one with the funny name to be RUM=i? ;D

Is there any other reason why Rumi was introduced to be under Kuroda's suspicion as the potential suspect for Kohji's murder? It could simply be a misdirection to mislead us to believe that she was actually some what responsible for his death? ;D
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"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
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hizami

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by hizami »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
February 21st, 2021, 5:23 am
3- Could Wakasa be Elena herself ? I don't think so for several reasons : Elena's hair is yellow while Wakasa's is black ... Elena's age in Bourbon's flashback was 29 and she should now be almost 48 years old while Wakasa is now 38 .... Wakasa was Amanda's bodyguard , which means She is strong, but I think Elena is a good doctor , i mean , she isn't strong and Elena does not like problems or fights , that is why she advised Bourbon in Flashback to be a polite boy .... Wakasa is very smart in solving cases , while Elena may be like Haibara , i mean thay are a doctor and scientist but they don't have intelligence of Detectives like Wakasa and Conan .... Elena was pregnant in Bourbon's flashback and gave birth to Haibara at the time of Kohji case , so I don't think Elena had the luxury of her time working as Amanda's bodyguard .
Elena's age in Bourbon's flashback was 29 and she should now be almost 48 years old while Wakasa is now 38
You should know better by now that in this anime you can't judge a character's actual age by their apparent age (APTX, makeup, costumes, etc.). And anyways, Wakasa Rumi is a false name, who's to say the age of 38 is not a false age? A 48 year old can still look 38.
Elena's hair is yellow while Wakasa's is black
I already brought up a counterpoint to Elena's being blonde while Wakasa's being dark brown. Here is an image of Elena Miyano from after she joined the Black Organization (Anime episode 340):

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We also see an image of Elena Miyano in Rei's flashback right before she joins the Black Organization (Anime episode 771):

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So we cannot rule out Elena Miyano or someone related to Elena Miyano solely on the basis of hair color. It seems odd to suggest this is simply a mistake on the part of Gosho, especially in episode 771 where the Bourbon/Elena relationship was introduced and Gosho likely already had most general details of Elena Miyano decided by that point, especially her hair being blonde. This suggests at the very least that Elena's hair was brown at her supposed time of death. A quick google search reveals that hair color changing from blond to brown is indeed a rare natural phenomenon that can occur as one ages (even happening as late as one's 30s).
Wakasa is very smart in solving cases , while Elena may be like Haibara , i mean thay are a doctor and scientist but they don't have intelligence of Detectives like Wakasa and Conan
Because Elena is smart enough as a doctor/scientist to work on APTX she can't also be a good detective? By that reasoning, Akai Shuichi is so skilled at shooting and driving that he can't also be a good detective. People can be smart in multiple areas. Sure Elena may be related to the non-detectives Haibara and Akemi but she's also related to the detectives Shuichi, Mary, Masumi, and Shukichi. Furthermore, the only case we know Wakasa Rumi to have solved is the Burning Tent case. More focus has been placed on Rumi's apparent ability to sense that a person will be murdered before it happens rather than her ability to actually solve the crimes.
Elena was pregnant in Bourbon's flashback and gave birth to Haibara at the time of Kohji case , so I don't think Elena had the luxury of her time working as Amanda's bodyguard
We don't know how long Asaka worked as Amanda's bodyguard. It's very likely Asaka defected from the Black Organization and was hired as a bodyguard shortly before the case from 17 years ago. She also gave birth over a year prior to the case from 17 years ago anyway (Haibara is over 18).
Wakasa was Amanda's bodyguard , which means She is strong, but I think Elena is a good doctor , i mean , she isn't strong and Elena does not like problems or fights , that is why she advised Bourbon in Flashback to be a polite boy
This flashback was before she joined the Black Organization. She is the "angel that fell into Hell". Who's to say she didn't change personality after joining the BO? We've already been given hints that Elena indeed had some sort of personality change or dual personality (Agasa recalls Elena acting coldly). Wakasa having to be someone strong is a good point... but there's also no evidence that suggests that Elena isn't strong. She is related to the strong females Mary and Masumi. She could be skilled in some sort of special karate for all we know.

Your argument seems to mainly stem from the faulty assumption that Elena Miyano = Haibara in every single aspect. I suppose I can agree with one part of your argument which is that Wakasa Rumi is most definitely not Haibara... ;D

Perhaps some important questions to bring up are: Why did the organization burn down the Miyanos' lab (as opposed to shooting them dead and not burning down several years of research into APTX)? Why does the timing ("shortly after Haibara's birth") seem to coincide with the case from 17 years ago? Why did no one, especially those aware of the Miyanos' situation, try to help or save the Miyanos? Why is Pisco/Haibara the only one who's brought up the Miyanos' supposed deaths so far? (Mary or even Vermouth could've had the opportunity)
hizami

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by hizami »

Absenta wrote:
February 20th, 2021, 12:10 pm
I personally think Wakita is not Rum. Rum is the second in command , if he would be ever caught that would mean nearly the end of BO, and could lead them directly to Karasuma. Actually, that´s why Akai got so close to Gin, because he believed that he was close to the boss.

Being infiltrated as a Sushi Chef would be too risky in case they would have a plan to trap him. For me all the signs tell us that Rum is just like Vermouth, a kinda famous person who nobody would suspect of. Famous but discreet, like Chikara Katsumata. I do like what you expose about Rumi holding her cards with the APTX stuff so she doesn´t get kileld, however the fact that she is infiltrating in school close to Conan and Haibara puts them on serious danger, if BO is overlooking Rumi (despite they can´t kill her that would put them in the target.
Sure, they can capture Wakita. But then what? They would have absolutely no evidence that Wakita is related to the Black Organization other than hearsay and that's he's wearing a costume, and obviously he's not going to spill any beans about the Black Organization any time soon. I doubt they would detain him indefinitely, and even if they did they're not any closer to taking down the entirety Black Organization. And Bourbon dies because he's one of the few who knew Rum's true identity and is immediately discovered as the traitor.

It is true that BO looking at Rumi could put Conan and Haibara in the BO's sights. But BO at least already has their sights set on Mouri Kogoro, Kudo Shinichi, and perhaps even Conan (if Wakita is RUM). There are also no photos of Haibara surfacing the Internet (Ch. 777 where Ayumi gets kidnapped in the antique rug makes a big deal out of it) and Sherry is dead as far as the majority of the organization knows. And assuming the shrinking ability of APTX is kept secret from most members of BO including Gin, that means that RUM would have to investigate and act on his own, lest his underlings question why they are watching a bunch of kids.

Maybe Chikara Katsumata = Wakita Kanenori? The two do look rather similar... Just kidding haha. ;D

I don't really mind the Chikara Katsumata = RUM theories, since I feel like even if I managed to write a 60-page thesis outlining all the hints Gosho left and definitively proving that Wakita Kanenori is indeed RUM that people could just go "nope that's just classic Gosho planting a ton of misleading evidence to trick us!". In order to resolve this stalemate we'll likely just have to wait a few months for the upcoming chapters which for whatever reason seem to be building up to a "second RUM reveal" when Conan figures it out.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

hizami

When I said that Elena is not Wakasa because of differences in face , age, hair color , intelligence in solving cases , strength and Elena is supposed to be dead . These differences should be mentioned at the beginning of our discussion, because if they are true and there is no falsehood or deception in them , so this will negate your theory .

Of course , these are not the only reasons that led me to confirm that Wakasa is not Elena , but there are others :

1- Obviously there is love affair between Kohji and Wakasa , I think if there is love between Elena and Kohji and she holds his favorite shogi piece so she remembers him only instead of remembering her dead husband Atsushi or her dead daughter Akemi , it will be a great betrayal from her , so I will accept your theory if you say another theory in which you assume that Kohji is Elena's second husband after Atsushi was dead alone in the fire where she managed to survive and let her husband die , or another theory you may assume that Atsushi has changed everything in his life to be Haneda Kohji just as Elena did to be Wakasa .

2- Why Wakasa's voice is different from Elena's ? I know you might find an explanation for this too , but I think if a person is not Kid or Vermouth , so this person can't change voice easily without assistive devices . Conan , Subaru , Yusaku , Yukiko and also RUM change their voices by a device , so how can Wakasa do it ?

3- If Wakasa is Elena , how did she know Carasuma is such a bad person and how did she discovered that he is still alive even though she joined Bo for one or two years , which means she was a low ranked member .

4- There are common traits of Yusaku and Yukiko found in their son Shinichi , Kogoro and Eri with Ran , as well as the scarlet family , so I don't think Haibara or Akemi would be this smart in solving cases if their mother was smart in solving it like Wakasa .

5- Elena is a good doctor who gave birth to a baby named Shiho , why would a wealthy like Amanda appoint Elena as a bodyguard for her while she could find millions of bodyguards who have suitable conditions so they can protect her all the time .

6- Asaka's hair was black at Kohji’s murder scene , so due to your theory i will assume that Elena dyed her hair black as a celebration of her new job as a bodyguard .

All I want to say to you is to keep in mind there is no problem that Wakasa is completely new character who did not appear before , while Elena may have actually died with her husband in the fire, but I respect your opinion and theory and I hope that Elena is alive as you think Somehow but I don't think she is Rumi .
Absenta

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Absenta »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
February 26th, 2021, 7:31 am
hizami

When I said that Elena is not Wakasa because of differences in face , age, hair color , intelligence in solving cases , strength and Elena is supposed to be dead . These differences should be mentioned at the beginning of our discussion, because if they are true and there is no falsehood or deception in them , so this will negate your theory .

Of course , these are not the only reasons that led me to confirm that Wakasa is not Elena , but there are others :

1- Obviously there is love affair between Kohji and Wakasa , I think if there is love between Elena and Kohji and she holds his favorite shogi piece so she remembers him only instead of remembering her dead husband Atsushi or her dead daughter Akemi , it will be a great betrayal from her , so I will accept your theory if you say another theory in which you assume that Kohji is Elena's second husband after Atsushi was dead alone in the fire where she managed to survive and let her husband die , or another theory you may assume that Atsushi has changed everything in his life to be Haneda Kohji just as Elena did to be Wakasa .

2- Why Wakasa's voice is different from Elena's ? I know you might find an explanation for this too , but I think if a person is not Kid or Vermouth , so this person can't change voice easily without assistive devices . Conan , Subaru , Yusaku , Yukiko and also RUM change their voices by a device , so how can Wakasa do it ?

3- If Wakasa is Elena , how did she know Carasuma is such a bad person and how did she discovered that he is still alive even though she joined Bo for one or two years , which means she was a low ranked member .

4- There are common traits of Yusaku and Yukiko found in their son Shinichi , Kogoro and Eri with Ran , as well as the scarlet family , so I don't think Haibara or Akemi would be this smart in solving cases if their mother was smart in solving it like Wakasa .

5- Elena is a good doctor who gave birth to a baby named Shiho , why would a wealthy like Amanda appoint Elena as a bodyguard for her while she could find millions of bodyguards who have suitable conditions so they can protect her all the time .

6- Asaka's hair was black at Kohji’s murder scene , so due to your theory i will assume that Elena dyed her hair black as a celebration of her new job as a bodyguard .

All I want to say to you is to keep in mind there is no problem that Wakasa is completely new character who did not appear before , while Elena may have actually died with her husband in the fire, but I respect your opinion and theory and I hope that Elena is alive as you think Somehow but I don't think she is Rumi .


1 I don´t think it´s obvious, because Kohji is a man and Rumi is a woman...not a huge different age and Rumi calls him a fool, why we should assume that their were lovers? And we also assume that Kohji was talking to Rumi in the scene but maybe Rumi was hidden and Kohji was talking to someone else: (allthough really looks like he was talking to her)

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2. Because if it was the same age and seiyuu it would be so obvious. However, Rumi´s voice it´s really weird and doesn´t look at all as a native japanese at least:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYSZv_Fl1Uk

Look at her introduction, such weird accent...

3, Well, Atsushi knew about the Carasuma group and being shady. They probably found out the man that is behind the group.

4. Why so? Elena Miyano/Haibara could be portrayed as Irene Adler (said by Gosho) , and Sherlok Holmes respected Irene Adler huge intelligence.

5. There is a theory that says that Asaka could have been Mary and somehow their swap positions during the case.

6. Well, changing hair color is the easiest thing someone can do, and Elena first apparition in the anime-manga was brunette, and a see some paralells here:

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Not saying that all this is 100% sure that Elena is Rumi, but Gosho is surely giving some hard hints.

Also, that Bourbon reactions towards Rumi as he already knew her...why highlight that?



And also, I find strange this statement, why does she say that she is 10 years older than Kobayashi sensei? Is this a hint that he could be 47 years and not 37? Because that goes with the flashback we saw about being pregnant of Shiho, 18 years ago - her age during the flashback (29)

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HatiMMOS

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by HatiMMOS »

I was busy with irl stuff in the past 3 weeks and it felt like an eternity. Now I realized that I still have to wait 44 days for the next chapter, very funny. It better not be a DB or Kaito kid case Gosho, it better not...
Anyway, I want to share with you some of my old random thoughts about this arc. These are not theories but rather speculations so don't take them seriously, I shared some of them in other platforms. I will add more if you like them.

1) I said before in discord that the case from chapter 460-462 had some similarities with the FBI murder case and Rum’s arc, and how Aoyama-sensei could have gotten inspiration from old cases , like he potentially did with the “hu” and “fu” thing from chapter 183.

-The water currents clue.
-Conan and Agasa explaining why fishermen should not be impatient.
-The culprit’s name was “Kanetani”

The victim of this case didn’t die and re-appeared in a continuation case, chapter 664-666, which had:

-the first character ever in the manga to wear an eyepatch like the one Wakita has.
-the pannel of Akai on the boat

2) Aoyama talked about adding a new BO member with the codename “Rum” in an interview in September of 2007 (Urusei Yatsura interview volume 21):
” … Gin, Vodka, Tequila, Sherry, Vermouth … Their names are all alcohol, and the only one name left, which sounds cool for a name is [Rum]… But this name is carved in hearts of all Japan, no ... hole world’s manga fans… and this character who has that name…, I, for all, too… I can’t use it! I’ll never use it !!” (He was speaking about Lum. Translated by: Yunniechan).
I like to think that he already had an idea about Rum’s character design in mind, he was hesitating only about choosing his codename. Volume 57 that contained Rum’s first appearance in the warehouse was released in Japan in July of 2007, volume 56 was in January, the eleventh movie was in April of the same year, adding more credibility to both the Rum chan and Rumi the pirate theories.

3) The BO decided that the FBI agents inside Japan should be eliminated to prepare for their next big move. In the manga, the times the FBI stood in the BO’s way were to shut down assassinations attempts. The last one was in the clash of red and black. Heiji said in chapter 490, 10 chapters before the start of clash: “When a criminal attempts to bluff something and make it look as real as possible, they’d often use the shadow of a real person to create false alibis!”. And that’s what the BO did when Vermouth tried to disguise as that gangster, Busujima Kiriko, who was accused of hiring a hitman to murder Yasutero Domon. My guess is that the purpose of this operation is to get one of the BO members to win the elections. Eisuke Tokiwa, a very suspicious guy with a suspicious job was the only DJ candidate to not have an influencial family member and the only one not be talked about by Conan and Judie when they were trying to guess who DJ is. Some fans might say that he looks like Carasuma but I strongly disagree with that, he can’t be boss, he ugli af XD. But I like the idea of the boss being a professor. Aoyama said that the boss is someone that Haibara would never suspect, he might be Haibara’s former biochemistry teacher (Moriarty was a Mathematics professor, keep that in mind) which can explain why Vermouth knows about medicine (even though Vermouth knows all sort of things like languages, but moving on…)
So, the next BO move is carrying assassinations in order to get the maximum of BO members into the system. But how is this is considered big by Gin you say? Maybe because of the way this assassination will be done; like gathering all the big influential politicians in one place, it could be a mansion, it could be a skyscraper or a boat (fits in Rum’s arc) then kill them all in genius way that nobody will ever suspect them or I don’t f know, you have a better imagination than I do… Bruh why did I even add this one? this is rubbish XD, next! (Do tell me what's your guess on their next move, hurry up, time is money!)

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(It's been a while since I saved this pannel so I don't remember from which chapter it was taken from)

4) We have been getting a lot of panels lately that show the palms of various characters, most of them have what I like to call “the Asaka pose”. I think that Aoyama is trying to tell us something by showing us these, I made compilation of those from what I recall :

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It was said in the manga that women tend to have their index longer than their ring finger, maybe this time something similar like the shape of the hand can give off some piece of information about Asaca’s identity, Aoyama likes these type of things XD. What do you think, relevant or not ?
And let's not forget the first one to do the Asaka pose, Eisuke Hondou in chapter 585. *s sip*
My favourite DC theories:

-The real Anokata is the friends Conan made in his journey.
-Gosho and Akemi are actually alligators.
-Okino Yoko is BO.
-Wakita likes basketball.
-Every character in the show is actually Vermouth if you think about it.
-Amuro does not wake up at 5 am everyday.
-Korn is vegetarian.
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Tantei San
It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Tantei San »

In a Not so shocking Revelation by Aoyama Gosho given to 2021 Da Vinci Magazine April Issue
Gosho did Confirm that Wakita was Indeed Rum and that he planned way ahead of the current Arc to someday Introduce him in the series.
Following is the Summary of the RUM related content from the Magazine.
  • 1.) Wakita is indeed RUM.
    2.) He wants to reveal the mystery around Rumi step by step
    3.) He thought of the Camel flashback back when he drew it and decided that the person in it would be a member that ranks higher than Gin but didnt decide the codename RUM back then.
I'll paste the links to the Imgur and it's TL on Pastebin below. As there is a lot more content about the Series.

Code: Select all

https://imgur.com/a/3sXGJsQ
https://pastebin.com/WdhnPaqB
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