Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

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Themaninarmor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 1:08 am

Absenta wrote:So many questions...vague answers...

¿When was Mary shrunk?



Gin said that shinichi is the first human Guinea pig for new developed drug which is the APTX (the first candidat is kiichiro numabuchi but he escaped maybe with shiho help) .. Well if what he said is right then there are 2 possibilities...

1. Mary was drugged before shinichi with another drug which we believe as silver bullet.

or

2. she was drugged after shinichi with APTX...

but if Mary was drugged before shinichi then in BO's drug victim list she would be reported as missing .. but haibara never mentioned that there is another person which reported as missing/uncertain, like shinichi.. (remember ai said the BO's death list isn't sorted by chronological or alphabetical order)

So, i believe mary was drugged after shinichi and after shiho left the organization. Then there will be another possibilities for the reason RUM is on the move. RUM may still searching mary cause she still missing after she was drugged by RUM or other BO's member.

After all we still don't know why mary is look like junior high school student... Is it because she already spent 5 or 7 year after shrunken or because she is older than shinichi that make her reverted to her condition now instead of reverted to 7 years old body.

Regarding the drug... we must consider too that the one who said the drug's name is silver bullet is only ai's parent and another researcher... BO's member never said anything about silver bullet..(well correct me if i'm wrong), and also i have searched about silver bullet meaning. One of the them is "Silver bullet is a symbol of justice or a weapon to exterminate evil". Isn't it ironic to name the drug used by evil organization to kill as silver bullet.

Hmmm if we turn around our thinking (edgeworth way)... Maybe what we think as silver bullet is not drug that kill people of course including the victim 17 years ago kohji haneda... Because it is in the same list as shinichi which was the victim of APTX and also why anokata called akai "silver bullet"? Is it just a saying or there are something happen before in BO which almost made the organization collapse caused by something/someone called "silver bullet".

@MeiTanteixX sorry for posting this in RUM's thread at least there is one line about RUM's objective... :D
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 22nd, 2017, 5:47 am

Themaninarmor wrote:@MeiTanteixX sorry for posting this in RUM's thread at least there is one line about RUM's objective... :D

it's still from the Rum Arc, so Mary and the apotoxin-shrinking is relevant.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Tantei San
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » February 22nd, 2017, 7:33 am

Themaninarmor wrote:
Hmmm if we turn around our thinking (edgeworth way)... Maybe what we think as silver bullet is not drug that kill people of course including the victim 17 years ago kohji haneda... Because it is in the same list as shinichi which was the victim of APTX and also why anokata called akai "silver bullet"? Is it just a saying or there are something happen before in BO which almost made the organization collapse caused by something/someone called "silver bullet".



I was about to quote in the other thread but i will post it here since both are same.
If going by your say, I think either that someone was Tsutomu Akai, that the Boss gave Akai the nickname of Silver Bullet.
If we remember Kir's case, it was the same, Ethan made sure it looked like she killed him and thus making into the organization was easy for her.
The reason Akai wanted to destroy BO was to avenge his father and maybe just like the way Mary saw him, the Boss as well saw Tsutomu-like traits in him and to make it to the top Shuichi must have done some exceptional work which made the Boss give him "The Silver Bullet" name.

And As for giving the drug, its name as silver bullet, maybe the silver bullet and APTX-4869 are same/were same. One was under experimentation while APTX was complete.
As for Gin's saying, He never said that shinichi was the first guinea pig.( I think so)
If gin did, probably was for himself.
Themaninarmor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 8:01 am

I'm sure that akai had given silver bullet name by anokata not because he have done some something great (I give my reason in aptx thread) instead anokata weary of akai and believe he can take down the organization alone... Of course gin have the opposite thinking. Well... for RUM.. i don't know. :D


Edit : about what gin said about shinichi as first guinea pig... Well i have read chapter 1 DC in english translation and my language translation and it is true.. gin said that but many fans believe that what gin said is wrong....
Last edited by Themaninarmor on February 22nd, 2017, 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Tantei San
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » February 22nd, 2017, 8:07 am

Themaninarmor wrote:I'm sure that akai had given silver bullet name by anokata not because he have done some something great (I give my reason in aptx thread) instead anokata weary of akai and belive he can take down the organization alone... Of course gin have the opposite thinking. Well... for RUM.. i don't know. :D


But for to believe be it anyone , not only the Boss, there has to be some work done to show, that would make the Boss(in this case), think that Akai has something that can take the organization down. Don't ya think?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 10:35 am

Well that can be true, but the basis for my statement/reasoning is.. there is conection between the silver bullet drug and what anokata fear most which is akai as silver bullet. Vermouth said that Boss is afraid of akai and said to her "that man might be our silver bullet" isn't it like saying "this man might be our kryptonite". :D but that was not my main point, my point is relation about RUM, Mary and the case 17 years ago.

The reason RUM got on move
-> mary appearance *is she RUM's target?
-> if yes, is it because she is agent infiltrating BO or because her condition now?
-> we can assume both of it is right because she got drugged either by RUM or another BO member but she is not in the list
-> maybe haibara forget it
-> but mary is not dead and would be labeled as uncertain. It will be hard to not spot the name which have survived at least she will tell conan another survivor, and BO always check if their target is dead like what they did to shinichi
-> then Mary was Drugged after shinichi thats why she is not in the list
-> by whom? is it RUM or another BO member? and why? -> is it connected to case 17 years ago which somehow RUM involved in there and also have affected her husband most...
-> her husband whereabout is unknown until now then there are enough reason for her to search information about that case
-> is he by any chance met RUM? yes... of course. RUM wanted to hide that case so badly cause RUM made a mistake and would silence everyone like what He/she do now
-> is Mary one of them? the possibilities is high that Mary became RUM's victim.
-> then her condition now caused by RUM. Mary was drugged by RUM with the same method as kohji 17 years ago.
-> but why mary is still alive? is RUM know about Mary being alive? like i said before BO always checked throughfully their victim so Mary's death is still uncertain -> thats why Mary is still on the run and left england, because she become RUM's target now.

And that's how i connect RUM with mary.
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Absenta
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » February 22nd, 2017, 12:16 pm

Themaninarmor wrote:
Absenta wrote:So many questions...vague answers...

¿When was Mary shrunk?



Gin said that shinichi is the first human Guinea pig for new developed drug which is the APTX (the first candidat is kiichiro numabuchi but he escaped maybe with shiho help) .. Well if what he said is right then there are 2 possibilities...

1. Mary was drugged before shinichi with another drug which we believe as silver bullet.

or

2. she was drugged after shinichi with APTX...

but if Mary was drugged before shinichi then in BO's drug victim list she would be reported as missing .. but haibara never mentioned that there is another person which reported as missing/uncertain, like shinichi.. (remember ai said the BO's death list isn't sorted by chronological or alphabetical order)

So, i believe mary was drugged after shinichi and after shiho left the organization. Then there will be another possibilities for the reason RUM is on the move. RUM may still searching mary cause she still missing after she was drugged by RUM or other BO's member.

After all we still don't know why mary is look like junior high school student... Is it because she already spent 5 or 7 year after shrunken or because she is older than shinichi that make her reverted to her condition now instead of reverted to 7 years old body.

Regarding the drug... we must consider too that the one who said the drug's name is silver bullet is only ai's parent and another researcher... BO's member never said anything about silver bullet..(well correct me if i'm wrong), and also i have searched about silver bullet meaning. One of the them is "Silver bullet is a symbol of justice or a weapon to exterminate evil". Isn't it ironic to name the drug used by evil organization to kill as silver bullet.

Hmmm if we turn around our thinking (edgeworth way)... Maybe what we think as silver bullet is not drug that kill people of course including the victim 17 years ago kohji haneda... Because it is in the same list as shinichi which was the victim of APTX and also why anokata called akai "silver bullet"? Is it just a saying or there are something happen before in BO which almost made the organization collapse caused by something/someone called "silver bullet".

@MeiTanteixX sorry for posting this in RUM's thread at least there is one line about RUM's objective... :D




The Silver bullet implies the definite way to kill mythological creatures like werewolfes and witches, it´s posible that the boss considers himself werewolf, he has his evil part because he is cursed by something. He has his own reasons to reach that point of evil and all the BO stuff is crearly a smokescreen that hs been conctructed through the years to fund some research he is obsessed in. Vermouth knows that and she thinks Shinichi as a Silver Bullet because always understands the point of view of the criminals solving a case.

The Miyanos called Silver Bullet to the drug they were creating, it is confirmed through Haibara´s tapes.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 22nd, 2017, 1:46 pm

The way I'm currently seeing things, from the moment the Rum/Kohji plot started, all the current Rum suspects have been set up*:

* [File 948-950] - Tsutomu's involvement ---> Kuroda Hyoue (although he was already introduced)

* [File 951-953] - Gin's suspicion ---> Wakita Kanenori

* [File 954-957] - Vermouth's suspicion ---> Wakasa Rumi

* [File 958-962] - Momiji's introduction ---> Iori Muga
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on February 22nd, 2017, 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » February 22nd, 2017, 2:03 pm

Foreshadowed as in... what? Gin still suspects Kogoro, so another suspicious person near Kogoro appears, Vermouth appears, so a suspicious female person appears, Momiji is introduced, so a person that works for her is introduced and... well, I don't see how Tsutomu and Kuroda would connect in this logic.

Do you mean that? Phew, that's... reaching quite a bit I'd say (except for maybe Wakita, in a sense). Following that, Momiji could also be a suspect, because she is a smart, blonde female that appeared after Vermouth showed up again.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 22nd, 2017, 3:50 pm

Serinox wrote:Foreshadowed as in... what? Gin still suspects Kogoro, so another suspicious person near Kogoro appears, Vermouth appears, so a suspicious female person appears, Momiji is introduced, so a person that works for her is introduced and... well, I don't see how Tsutomu and Kuroda would connect in this logic.

Do you mean that? Phew, that's... reaching quite a bit I'd say (except for maybe Wakita, in a sense). Following that, Momiji could also be a suspect, because she is a smart, blonde female that appeared after Vermouth showed up again.

Sorry, I meant set up.
I'm saying that this is my current suspicion about these characters and that it follows this pattern...
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Tantei San
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » February 23rd, 2017, 6:35 am

Btw, Now that Serinox hinted Momiji as a "couldbe" Rum suspect, does anyone think she could be Rum or she is just for heiji??
Also, I think, If my reasoning is correct,
Courtesy : File 988
Two theories.
Rumi wakasa is RUM, Kuroda was the Officer after RUM/Rumi. In the whole file she was persuading Kuroda to say something unintended during the case.
Phrases like-
1. "Oh my, That was quite remarkable! Yo happen to sleep with your earplugs on and yet you PERFECTLY heard them".
2. "Ah, Were you trying to spot SOMEONE in particular"?
3. "My, it could be almost be said that you were so caught up in trying to observe SOMEONE ".
Here someone either refers to her, or specifically trying to find RUM.
Or ,
It could be other way, Kuroda being Rum and Rumi confirming if he is still looking for someone for 17 years ago.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » February 23rd, 2017, 2:06 pm

Tantei San wrote:...does anyone think she could be Rum...


She's 17. That alone disqualifies her, for me.
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alphajjc
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » February 23rd, 2017, 2:12 pm

Rum being a hard liquor and her being a female is what disqualifies her for me
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » February 23rd, 2017, 3:23 pm

alphajjc wrote:Rum being a hard liquor and her being a female is what disqualifies her for me

agreed. similarly to how it was obvious that Gosho was gonna follow through the Kid disguise pattern and make Agasa the target.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Tantei San
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » March 2nd, 2017, 12:26 pm

So, while going through the wiki page related to the Kohji Haneda Case, some points struck me.
We know,
Characters-
Kohji Haneda
Amanda Hughes
Asaka
RUM(presuming them both to be different)

Setup-
Kohji had a match in US, Amanda being her fan and rich reserved a room in the same hotel.She was accompanied by her then bodyguard Asaka.
Day before the match, Kohji and Amanda are murdered with Prime suspect as Asaka, The Bodyguard.

Theory-
Amanda in a hype of meeting Kohji, went and reserved her Room in the same hotel. Then, she went to meet him with her bodyguard Asaka. One thing led to another and both Kohji and Amanda ended up dead.
Now, If they both were killed by Asaka, then there is no point in any further part.
But,
If Rum was present there as well and killed both of them, and made Asaka as the prime suspect it is sure that Asaka would develop some sort of hatred and revenge towards specifically Rum. And in this case, Asaka= Rumi. She was framed for the murder of both of them by Rum and that she may/maynot be related to Kohji, but definitely wants to kill RUM.

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