Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1018

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 24th, 2017, 8:50 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:It's logically easy to look back after you know the solution and say they mean a certain thing, but that's your personal bias, trying to force the data to a known solution. Was that one restaurant "Aska" where Okino Yoko and Higo "dated" a sign that this case was plot significant, or a meaningless tease? Were the crows that appeared at the burned apartment building in Okiya's intro a sign that the Black Organization is lurking, or simple foreboding to make Okiya seem creepier? Did the hunt for the Chocolate Black Spy commercial mean we were supposed to pay extra attention for the spy-like Bourbon in the white day case, or was it just some random case story Gosho inserted?

Just like how that mindset is your personal bias.

"Aska" thing was never even close to be, or seem, like a tease in my personal opinion("Aska"-->"Asaka" is a very off interpretation, with no actual meaning or context).
The "crows" thingy is trivial and irrelevant to the foreshadowing pattern I've mentioned and they can also symbolizes multiple things in stories overall.
"Choco" thingy: could be, could be not. Still irrelevant to the pattern I was analyzing.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:The story progresses, and what was once a reliable radar can end up being as unreliable as Yamamura. As I addressed, what Gosho introduced in the Bourbon arc(File 856) is suggesting inconsistency in her abilities, right after her fake death. Vermouth was full-on action-mode when she fell on Jodie to retrieve the bug(as seen with her evil smirk)(file 852), and Haibara didn't react one bit.
Retrieving a bug is just a bit different than smashing a face in.

the fact still remains that she couldn't sense her, when track-record suggests otherwise. In mystery train, she felt her presence when she was just walking out from a room(not even looking like she was in "action-mode" or aware of Haibara being nearby). In bus-hijack, she was mostly sitting and observing Conan. No action, still a strong sensation from the moment she entered to who-knows-how-long.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Themaninarmor
User avatar

It's not about me

Posts: 155

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Themaninarmor » January 24th, 2017, 2:28 pm

Why RUM spying Kogoro??? the reason of his act in the first place was to search the one who spread the case 17 years ago in internet.

It is reasonable to assume if RUM infiltrate the police... but spying kogoro for what reason??? ONLY gin who still have interest for kogoro and in conversation between Gin and Vodka... Gin doesn't care for anything that RUM doing right now. (in hanged musician case or in ghost detective case. I forget which one...).

So it safe again to assume that RUM and GIN work individually for now and RUM didn't have interest for Kogoro in the first place. So It is unreasonable if RUM spying Kogoro which not connected to case 17 years ago.

Well at least the only connection is... when kogoro scheduled to meet the ghost detective... But just only that... even in the next case (hanged musician "Asaka Case") Kogoro never appeared.

For me..RUMI, Wakita , and the Butler (I really mean it... he just a Butler) not the real RUM. I think RUM still not properly appeared as character in all recent case. I mean maybe only RUM's hand, shadow, or hair which already appeared but never his/her full appearance.

Oh for the last one i believe if for some reason RUM targeting Kogoro and disguised around him.. KIR or Vermouth will try to inform Conan because they are protecting him. Well in bourbon case... I think Vermouth know Bourbon real identity, so she believe he won't hurt Conan except haibara.
130177130179417
ran mamijo kun
katara kare anya masuno
Chekhov MacGuffin
Community Scholar
User avatar

BAGA BGEGD EDBDEG A

Posts: 2843

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » January 24th, 2017, 4:00 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:It's logically easy to look back after you know the solution and say they mean a certain thing, but that's your personal bias, trying to force the data to a known solution. Was that one restaurant "Aska" where Okino Yoko and Higo "dated" a sign that this case was plot significant, or a meaningless tease? Were the crows that appeared at the burned apartment building in Okiya's intro a sign that the Black Organization is lurking, or simple foreboding to make Okiya seem creepier? Did the hunt for the Chocolate Black Spy commercial mean we were supposed to pay extra attention for the spy-like Bourbon in the white day case, or was it just some random case story Gosho inserted?

Just like how that mindset is your personal bias.
First off, those were examples of the types of hints you are using now, only I was offering various tea-leaf interpretations to show how different people with different biases might approach them. I never said I believed they had a certain meaning, and I believe I made it clear in my prior post that I think those hints are meaningless in mystery-solution context and thus not really worth thinking about anyway.

My method is wait for decisive evidence, ignore the rest. And that means waiting patiently for diagnostic hints to come in before committing to a single sound theory. I'm not going to stake a theory claim early if I think it's going to compromise my being correct for only the right reasons. My somewhat okay reputation is proof that it's a respectable strategy. I can't really support your method of chasing shadows because it has resulted in you seriously supporting two mutually exclusive Rumi theories at once. It's like accusing two separate people of being the murderer because you are pretty sure you are right, but aren't sure which one did it.

MeiTanteixX wrote:"Aska" thing was never even close to be, or seem, like a tease in my personal opinion("Aska"-->"Asaka" is a very off interpretation, with no actual meaning or context).
Really? Seriously?
You think it is totally kosher to claim a "mysterious female-yaiba" (File 968) and the DB's discussion of Kid's disguise choices are "hints" we should seriously consider RE: Rumi, but the name of a restaurant one letter off from the most mysterious arc word is just coincidence and not something reasonable people could possibly entertain had meaning? (And let me be clear I'm not claiming any of those are valid clues with meaning, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy when claiming one is "bias" and the other is a "clue".)

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:The story progresses, and what was once a reliable radar can end up being as unreliable as Yamamura. As I addressed, what Gosho introduced in the Bourbon arc(File 856) is suggesting inconsistency in her abilities, right after her fake death. Vermouth was full-on action-mode when she fell on Jodie to retrieve the bug(as seen with her evil smirk)(file 852), and Haibara didn't react one bit.
Retrieving a bug is just a bit different than smashing a face in.

the fact still remains that she couldn't sense her, when track-record suggests otherwise. In mystery train, she felt her presence when she was just walking out from a room(not even looking like she was in "action-mode" or aware of Haibara being nearby). In bus-hijack, she was mostly sitting and observing Conan. No action, still a strong sensation from the moment she entered to who-knows-how-long.
I'm not disagreeing that Gosho has being trending towards a more unreliable Haibara radar, I just disagree with a conclusion that would rely on Vermouth, the most Ai-triggery char, not setting off Ai's radar at point blank when she has full on "killing intent". Recall that Akai was under Ai's radar most of the time as Okiya, except when he decided a criminal needed to get some, and Ai would reliably freak every time. My opinion is that Gosho has not indicated that Ai's radar is so far gone that her top-priority triggers no longer get a response, and that it would be out of character if he decided to make it so, especially with Vermouth. If you asked me if I thought it was possible for Rum could smack someone up and not set off current Haibara, I'd say maybe, but not Vermouth. Vermouth was still sending strong signals during Detective's Nocturne and the mystery train, even though Haibara believed Conan when he said he bargained with Vermouth to lay off.
Last edited by Chekhov MacGuffin on January 24th, 2017, 4:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
k11chi
User avatar
Posts: 1335

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » January 24th, 2017, 4:04 pm

Themaninarmor wrote:Why RUM spying Kogoro??? the reason of his act in the first place was to search the one who spread the case 17 years ago in internet.

It is reasonable to assume if RUM infiltrate the police... but spying kogoro for what reason??? ONLY gin who still have interest for kogoro and in conversation between Gin and Vodka... Gin doesn't care for anything that RUM doing right now. (in hanged musician case or in ghost detective case. I forget which one...).

So it safe again to assume that RUM and GIN work individually for now and RUM didn't have interest for Kogoro in the first place. So It is unreasonable if RUM spying Kogoro which not connected to case 17 years ago.

Well at least the only connection is... when kogoro scheduled to meet the ghost detective... But just only that... even in the next case (hanged musician "Asaka Case") Kogoro never appeared.

For me..RUMI, Wakita , and the Butler (I really mean it... he just a Butler) not the real RUM. I think RUM still not properly appeared as character in all recent case. I mean maybe only RUM's hand, shadow, or hair which already appeared but never his/her full appearance.

Oh for the last one i believe if for some reason RUM targeting Kogoro and disguised around him.. KIR or Vermouth will try to inform Conan because they are protecting him. Well in bourbon case... I think Vermouth know Bourbon real identity, so she believe he won't hurt Conan except haibara.

Because Kogoro has gained fame and could be a threat to the org so he probably investigates the agency atleast from afar.
Image
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1018

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 24th, 2017, 5:48 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:It's logically easy to look back after you know the solution and say they mean a certain thing, but that's your personal bias, trying to force the data to a known solution. Was that one restaurant "Aska" where Okino Yoko and Higo "dated" a sign that this case was plot significant, or a meaningless tease? Were the crows that appeared at the burned apartment building in Okiya's intro a sign that the Black Organization is lurking, or simple foreboding to make Okiya seem creepier? Did the hunt for the Chocolate Black Spy commercial mean we were supposed to pay extra attention for the spy-like Bourbon in the white day case, or was it just some random case story Gosho inserted?

Just like how that mindset is your personal bias.
First off, those were examples of the types of hints you are using now, only I was offering various tea-leaf interpretations to show how different people with different biases might approach them. I never said I believed they had a certain meaning, and I believe I made it clear in my prior post that I think those hints are meaningless in mystery-solution context and thus not really worth thinking about anyway.

My method is wait for decisive evidence, ignore the rest. And that means waiting patiently for diagnostic hints to come in before committing to a single sound theory. I'm not going to stake a theory claim early if I think it's going to compromise my being correct for only the right reasons. My somewhat okay reputation is proof that it's a respectable strategy. I can't really support your method of chasing shadows because it has resulted in you seriously supporting two mutually exclusive Rumi theories at once. It's like accusing two separate people of being the murderer because you are pretty sure you are right, but aren't sure which one did it.

When I said "mindset", I was referring to that very thing you just explained. That following hint and red-herring-pattern is pointless. Clearly, you're off the mark with your examples. the only closest example to my pattern-analysis is the "crow" one, because it was the only one that actually pertained to a character introduction(which my analysis was clearly focused on).

Wow. So suddenly, this is a competition of who calls something first?? Is that really how u see things, just because my early pattern analysis doesn't follow your usual routine? for your sake, I'm gonna ignore that you just made it sound like having a good reputation is your goal in theorizing and discussing fiction.
Oh really? So me doing thorough and detailed theories for multiple directions automatically makes me a blind supporter for only those multiple directions? It's funny how that's your immediate impression, rather than me simply exploring multiple options from the info we have gotten so far. I'm not surprised though, considering that your routine involves doing long theory posts for things that has to be correct, while I like to enjoy the theorizing journey(which involves debunking and creating theories as we go) until we get closer to the truth and it eventually becomes obvious. I respect your way of doing things, but it looks like it's not a mutual matter.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:"Aska" thing was never even close to be, or seem, like a tease in my personal opinion("Aska"-->"Asaka" is a very off interpretation, with no actual meaning or context).
Really? Seriously?
You think it is totally kosher to claim a "mysterious female-yaiba" (File 968) and the DB's discussion of Kid's disguise choices are "hints" we should seriously consider RE: Rumi, but the name of a restaurant one letter off from the most mysterious arc word is just coincidence and not something reasonable people could possibly entertain had meaning? (And let me be clear I'm not claiming any of those are valid clues with meaning, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy when claiming one is "bias" and the other is a "clue".)

As I mentioned before, my analysis was specifically focused on how Gosho handles character introduction. "Aska" is not even a contestant in that department. I was pretty thorough with my reasoning, in terms of the type of foreshadowing(and what it foreshadows) through the examples I presented. Just like those examples, my reasoning was that Gosho was possibly alluding to that Rumi was a disguise(like Kid-disguises), hence the disguise conversation right before her introduction. The "Yaiba" hint is equivalent to "red guy" reference in Subaru's intro or the "bourbon" reference in Amuro's intro. I don't generalize all those different types of foreshadowings like you do(ultimately making it look I'm choosing biases "because they are all the same"). I compare them with older ones, based on their context and delivery. That's a crucial part in the pattern analysis(which u seem to ignore).

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:The story progresses, and what was once a reliable radar can end up being as unreliable as Yamamura. As I addressed, what Gosho introduced in the Bourbon arc(File 856) is suggesting inconsistency in her abilities, right after her fake death. Vermouth was full-on action-mode when she fell on Jodie to retrieve the bug(as seen with her evil smirk)(file 852), and Haibara didn't react one bit.
Retrieving a bug is just a bit different than smashing a face in.

the fact still remains that she couldn't sense her, when track-record suggests otherwise. In mystery train, she felt her presence when she was just walking out from a room(not even looking like she was in "action-mode" or aware of Haibara being nearby). In bus-hijack, she was mostly sitting and observing Conan. No action, still a strong sensation from the moment she entered to who-knows-how-long.

I'm not disagreeing that Gosho has being trending towards a more unreliable Haibara radar, I just disagree with a conclusion that would rely on Vermouth, the most Ai-triggery char, not setting off Ai's radar at point blank when she has full on "killing intent". Recall that Akai was under Ai's radar most of the time as Okiya, except when he decided a criminal needed to get some, and Ai would reliably freak every time. My opinion is that Gosho has not indicated that Ai's radar is so far gone that her top-priority triggers no longer get a response, and that it would be out of character if he decided to make it so, especially with Vermouth. If you asked me if I thought it was possible for Rum could smack someone up and not set off current Haibara, I'd say maybe, but not Vermouth. Vermouth was still sending strong signals during Detective's Nocturne and the mystery train, even though Haibara believed Conan when he said he bargained with Vermouth to lay off.

Haibara addressed it very clearly why she couldn't sense anything. Whether her words is reliable or not is a different matter, but to claim that something is unreasonable, when we haven't even gotten another scenario that proves your point, it's like being ignorant to a potential development for that plot-device(sensing abillity). Your Vermouth example is pre-mystery-train(fake death), so it doesn't help your argument that she would've sensed her.

Overall, I hope that in the future, you don't force your impressions about others as facts. Just because you can't relate to it doesn't mean that there's only one way to see it.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on January 24th, 2017, 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Spimer
Moderator
User avatar

Do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Force!

Posts: 800

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Spimer » January 24th, 2017, 5:58 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Wow. So suddenly, this is a competition of who calls something first?? Is that really how u see things, just because my early pattern analysis doesn't follow your usual routine? for your sake, I'm gonna ignore that you just made it sound like having a good reputation is your goal in theorizing and discussing fiction.


Alright, alright. Let's not get too hot here, shall we?

Chekov MacGuffin wrote:(And let me be clear I'm not claiming any of those are valid clues with meaning, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy when claiming one is "bias" and the other is a "clue".)


I agree that both of you have different opinions and points of view regarding the plot and the characters and you've got the right to express them but we shouldn't turn this into a discussion of who's right and whose criteria is the best or a competition.

If you still feel like you need to talk this through between each other you can always resort to PMs: otherwise it feels like the thread becomes a place to clash each other's opinions.

Thank you for your understanding.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1018

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 24th, 2017, 6:06 pm

Spimer wrote:I agree that both of you have different opinions and points of view regarding the plot and the characters and you've got the right to express them but we shouldn't turn this into a discussion of who's right and whose criteria is the best or a competition.

If you still feel like you need to talk this through between each other you can always resort to PMs: otherwise it feels like the thread becomes a place to clash each other's opinions.

Thank you for your understanding.

I never really criticized Chek's way of doing things, but sure.
I don't want to waste time on this.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
alphajjc
Posts: 74

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » January 24th, 2017, 7:02 pm

Spoiler:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:It's logically easy to look back after you know the solution and say they mean a certain thing, but that's your personal bias, trying to force the data to a known solution. Was that one restaurant "Aska" where Okino Yoko and Higo "dated" a sign that this case was plot significant, or a meaningless tease? Were the crows that appeared at the burned apartment building in Okiya's intro a sign that the Black Organization is lurking, or simple foreboding to make Okiya seem creepier? Did the hunt for the Chocolate Black Spy commercial mean we were supposed to pay extra attention for the spy-like Bourbon in the white day case, or was it just some random case story Gosho inserted?

Just like how that mindset is your personal bias.
First off, those were examples of the types of hints you are using now, only I was offering various tea-leaf interpretations to show how different people with different biases might approach them. I never said I believed they had a certain meaning, and I believe I made it clear in my prior post that I think those hints are meaningless in mystery-solution context and thus not really worth thinking about anyway.

My method is wait for decisive evidence, ignore the rest. And that means waiting patiently for diagnostic hints to come in before committing to a single sound theory. I'm not going to stake a theory claim early if I think it's going to compromise my being correct for only the right reasons. My somewhat okay reputation is proof that it's a respectable strategy. I can't really support your method of chasing shadows because it has resulted in you seriously supporting two mutually exclusive Rumi theories at once. It's like accusing two separate people of being the murderer because you are pretty sure you are right, but aren't sure which one did it.

MeiTanteixX wrote:"Aska" thing was never even close to be, or seem, like a tease in my personal opinion("Aska"-->"Asaka" is a very off interpretation, with no actual meaning or context).
Really? Seriously?
You think it is totally kosher to claim a "mysterious female-yaiba" (File 968) and the DB's discussion of Kid's disguise choices are "hints" we should seriously consider RE: Rumi, but the name of a restaurant one letter off from the most mysterious arc word is just coincidence and not something reasonable people could possibly entertain had meaning? (And let me be clear I'm not claiming any of those are valid clues with meaning, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy when claiming one is "bias" and the other is a "clue".)

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:The story progresses, and what was once a reliable radar can end up being as unreliable as Yamamura. As I addressed, what Gosho introduced in the Bourbon arc(File 856) is suggesting inconsistency in her abilities, right after her fake death. Vermouth was full-on action-mode when she fell on Jodie to retrieve the bug(as seen with her evil smirk)(file 852), and Haibara didn't react one bit.
Retrieving a bug is just a bit different than smashing a face in.

the fact still remains that she couldn't sense her, when track-record suggests otherwise. In mystery train, she felt her presence when she was just walking out from a room(not even looking like she was in "action-mode" or aware of Haibara being nearby). In bus-hijack, she was mostly sitting and observing Conan. No action, still a strong sensation from the moment she entered to who-knows-how-long.
I'm not disagreeing that Gosho has being trending towards a more unreliable Haibara radar, I just disagree with a conclusion that would rely on Vermouth, the most Ai-triggery char, not setting off Ai's radar at point blank when she has full on "killing intent". Recall that Akai was under Ai's radar most of the time as Okiya, except when he decided a criminal needed to get some, and Ai would reliably freak every time. My opinion is that Gosho has not indicated that Ai's radar is so far gone that her top-priority triggers no longer get a response, and that it would be out of character if he decided to make it so, especially with Vermouth. If you asked me if I thought it was possible for Rum could smack someone up and not set off current Haibara, I'd say maybe, but not Vermouth. Vermouth was still sending strong signals during Detective's Nocturne and the mystery train, even though Haibara believed Conan when he said he bargained with Vermouth to lay off.


You have been coming across very condescending the past page.

I think your letting the fact you have a 95 percent rate when it comes to getting predictions right go to your head.

You can disagree without being condescending
Last edited by Spimer on January 25th, 2017, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Condensed multi-quoting into spoiler tag to make page viewing easier
dccd
User avatar
Posts: 53

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » January 24th, 2017, 8:43 pm

Just one comment on this whole discussion:

Since some people seem to forget, that this is still a discussion/theory-section, it should be completely up the everybody sharing his ideas.
And Check, to " wait for decisive evidence, ignore the rest". Well, doesnt sound like a lof of fun waiting for almost 3-4 years now.
And up to this point i dont think anyone can claim to have an evidence for someone being Rum.

I personally enjoy every kind of new idea, thought or detail someone points out - even if it turns out to be wrong in the end.
I see nothing wrong with sharing 2 opposite theories (Vermouth/Asaka-Rumi), since obviously there are clues for both of them.
Some clues are weaker, some stronger, but i feel this is completely up to anyone to judge the "strongness" of each clue.

So on the one side - pls continue MeitanteixX and continue posting ur well written thoughts. Its really a pleasure to read everyone of them - atleast for me.
On the other hand - I think noone can judge a potential clue by now. I noticed the "Aska"-sign too and if Higo or Yoko turns out to be Rum, it certainly can be interpretated
as "Rum going for/to As[a]ka" or something different.

If someone would have pointed out that Sera is british after her first appearence due to her Union-Jack-sign, I think most people wouldnt have been convinced.
Same for the "Hyde Pride Hotel"-clue in 899 pointing to Mary.

I think everybody is smart enough to judge how "strong" his theory is.
So live and let live...

PS: About the competition... i won anyway ;)
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = Mrs. Akai (Mary)
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
PhantomWriter
User avatar
Posts: 250

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby PhantomWriter » January 24th, 2017, 9:42 pm

I can understand why Chek likes waiting for evidence, even if it is frustrating to wait so long. A lot of Detective Conan has numerous references to mystery series, especially the original Holmes canon, and that's a big part of Holmes' methodology.

However, random theories are a lot of fun, so long as you remember they're random theories. :P

As for the Rum arc, I just binged on some of this after spending a while away from the series. So far, I do not have any specific theories about Rum, but there are a few thoughts:

  • Wakasa Rumi mentions how her favorite sake is whiskey, which is strange since those are two very different kinds of alcohol.
  • Kuroda and Wakita's reaction to Wakasa's actions is interesting.
  • The mention of the Pirate's Spirit horse makes me wonder about the original wording because, while English has the idea of spirit referring to passion, one's soul, and also to a class of alcohols, other languages don't necessarily have that ambiguity. Russian doesn't- дух refers to a soul, настроение is one's sentiments, but an alcohol spirit is a cognate to English- спирт. Does that ambiguity apply to Japanese or is it unambiguous? If it's ambiguous, that may lend credence to part of the original post about Wakita. If not, that could be a something lost (red herring added?) by translation.
  • If Haneda was fed a prototype of APTX, who left the message with the mirror? As we've seen people getting poisoned with it, be it the actual poisoning or reverting back and forth with the temporary antidote, they've consistently only been able to barely move around or speak before collapsing in pain. We know Haneda died and he wasn't one of the people who suffered the shrinking side-effect.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -Sherlock Holmes
Serinox
User avatar
Posts: 480

Contact:

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » January 24th, 2017, 10:48 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:
  • Wakasa Rumi mentions how her favorite sake is whiskey, which is strange since those are two very different kinds of alcohol.
  • The mention of the Pirate's Spirit horse makes me wonder about the original wording because, while English has the idea of spirit referring to passion, one's soul, and also to a class of alcohols, other languages don't necessarily have that ambiguity. Russian doesn't- дух refers to a soul, настроение is one's sentiments, but an alcohol spirit is a cognate to English- спирт. Does that ambiguity apply to Japanese or is it unambiguous? If it's ambiguous, that may lend credence to part of the original post about Wakita. If not, that could be a something lost (red herring added?) by translation.

1. That's probably just a minor translation mistake. Sake isn't just the name of the specific drink, but also a Japanese word for alcohol in general. So, Rumi said that whisky is her favorite alcohol.
2. Well, the original wording is the English name "Pirate's Spirit" written in Katakana (パイレーツ・スピリット), so yeah, I'd say it contains the double meaning it has in English.
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1018

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 25th, 2017, 2:32 am

dccd wrote:So on the one side - pls continue MeitanteixX and continue posting ur well written thoughts. Its really a pleasure to read everyone of them - atleast for me.
don't worry, I will.
No reason to stop doing something I enjoy.
Still debating on who/what I should discuss next.

PhantomWriter wrote:[*]If Haneda was fed a prototype of APTX, who left the message with the mirror? As we've seen people getting poisoned with it, be it the actual poisoning or reverting back and forth with the temporary antidote, they've consistently only been able to barely move around or speak before collapsing in pain. We know Haneda died and he wasn't one of the people who suffered the shrinking side-effect.[/list]

Keep in mind that this was the Miyanos' prototype and not Sherry's. We don't even know if it can shrink people, and considering that Haibara implied that the BO made her work with a different drug in file 948(at least how I interpreted it), it could mean that the side-effect works in a different rate.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
k11chi
User avatar
Posts: 1335

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » January 25th, 2017, 6:49 am

I doubt that one could shrink people it may have another effect though.
Image
Swagnarok
User avatar
Posts: 267

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Swagnarok » January 25th, 2017, 12:11 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:I can understand why Chek likes waiting for evidence, even if it is frustrating to wait so long. A lot of Detective Conan has numerous references to mystery series, especially the original Holmes canon, and that's a big part of Holmes' methodology.

However, random theories are a lot of fun, so long as you remember they're random theories. :P

As for the Rum arc, I just binged on some of this after spending a while away from the series. So far, I do not have any specific theories about Rum, but there are a few thoughts:

  • Wakasa Rumi mentions how her favorite sake is whiskey, which is strange since those are two very different kinds of alcohol.
  • Kuroda and Wakita's reaction to Wakasa's actions is interesting.

    According to Wikipedia, at least, in the Japanese language "sake" can be used to refer to any alcoholic beverage; it's English which defines it strictly as a Japanese liquor.
  • The mention of the Pirate's Spirit horse makes me wonder about the original wording because, while English has the idea of spirit referring to passion, one's soul, and also to a class of alcohols, other languages don't necessarily have that ambiguity. Russian doesn't- дух refers to a soul, настроение is one's sentiments, but an alcohol spirit is a cognate to English- спирт. Does that ambiguity apply to Japanese or is it unambiguous? If it's ambiguous, that may lend credence to part of the original post about Wakita. If not, that could be a something lost (red herring added?) by translation.
  • If Haneda was fed a prototype of APTX, who left the message with the mirror? As we've seen people getting poisoned with it, be it the actual poisoning or reverting back and forth with the temporary antidote, they've consistently only been able to barely move around or speak before collapsing in pain. We know Haneda died and he wasn't one of the people who suffered the shrinking side-effect.
明智 ナンシー
Spoiler:
My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He has a very good fast draw and he's very highly proficient in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't bother trying to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland.
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection. He joined the project approximately one year before the events of Episodes 128-129 and the two of them worked closely in developing the drug.
Tantei San
User avatar

It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

Posts: 304

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » January 25th, 2017, 3:29 pm

What did you do in the previous post swagnarok? I cannot understand.

Return to “Story Discussion (Manga Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Phil and 9 guests