Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 217

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » January 11th, 2018, 10:59 am

Muga=Knight as Knight is horse faced? Heh.....but what type of Horse is he? A good one or an evil one?

BTW who will voice Wakita? That's a million dollar question.
dccd
User avatar
Posts: 141

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby dccd » Yesterday, 12:23 am

Sth to read for those long days.

@Zero

Ah ok, so I missunderstood you about Sera.
So I think it would be correct to assume that Wakita somehow knows, just like Sera that Kogoro is a fraud, but the former felt a hard time to pin the stuff on Conan.

I misread this part.

A double playing Tom Cruise makes the double as Tom Cruise for the time being.

Erm no. Tom Cruise stays Tom Cruise and the double stays the double - just preteding to be TC - not actually being TC.

To make it short:
Kuroda is obv a good character
Rumi is one aswell.
So only Wakita is left for the bad guy-position.

About Kuroda
Well... Kuroda says its on his own. "Your the brain behind sleeping Kogoro".
I think Gosho didnt chose those words just4fun but to point out: Hey, this guy knows about Conan [and he´s on our side].
And he saw Conan in action in his opening chapters (I think it was 913 or sth?).
And well, I think if I were for 10 years in coma and suffer memory loss, I wouldnt kick instantly asses aswell.
Btw: Its still possible that Kuroda = Amuros boss = Tsutomu
We still dont know which agency Tsutomu belonged to. Maybe it wasnt MI6 but PSB/NPA?
But I guess we agree that Kuroda =/= BO, but more likely = Amuros boss/ or Tsutomu.
But most important : A good character.

About Rumi
I guess Ais reaction is enough: She´s good aswell.

About Wakita
So since 2/3 suspects are obviously good - I tend to believe the third one isnt.
Hints:
- Jokes about Rum (if he was Tsutomu, would he call Rum weak? Since he didnt catch him for 17 years, I doubt that).
- Didnt met Ai yet (other two did).
Gosho even managed to let him appear at Agasas without Ai being there.
- The Yaiba-hint:
I have another interpretation: Since this is the Rum arc one might see Rum as the boss (of this arc)/the one with the highest position.
So Wakita as his representative is actually the "second in command that appears in todays episode".

I actually dont see Wakita being interested in Kogoros protection. (still possible though).
Since 977 there wasnt one single panel that he spend a thought about Kogoro, but rather Conan/Shinichi.
(if "This one is pretty quick witted.." is related to Conan)
There was no single panel showing him watching the street, the window of Kogoro or whatever.
Additionally he only wants to accompany Kogoro during a murder - not a regular - case.
So I believe that he actually is after Conan and is using Kogoro only as an excuse.
Why? I tell that later.
I admit though that there wasnt any clear sign of interest in Conan in 975-977, but more in his later appearences.


Isn't Rum's latest mission given to Bourbon makes Bourbon his own representative?

Theres a difference between a representative and a simple worker/peon.
Try to see it as "secretary/right hand vs simple peon".
Vermouth in relation to the boss is a more a representative while
f.e. Korn is a peon.

And now your/the most deciding question:
The thing is, if Rum already has one representative working for him why is he relying on Bourbon?


Its a test and a trap.
Its quite interesting that in polls most people voted for "Sniffing about rats in the BO" as Rums objective.
Now Rum (from his pov) gives Bourbon a perfect mission to prove his loyalty.
In the context of the manga nearing towards his end (were in a do or die situation) and the last big clash being near (Bo vs Conan & friends)
I think every character will find his ultimate position.
So this will be a test that Bourbon will end up failing and therefore dying or escaping and fight on Conans side.


To sum it up / what I believe:
Rum met Conan and Kogoro.
Rum noticed Conans skills, but didnt get to see sleeping Kogoro.
Rum saw 3 murder cases being solved with Conan nearby but without seeing sleeping Kogoro.
Rum suspects Conan of being someone else.
Rum therefore sends his representative to do that job [Wakita] since Rum is on his own mission [killing Mary].
Rum tests Bourbon.

So is there a person who noticed Conan skills and already saw him solve 3 murder cases but didnt ever saw sleeping Kogoro?
There is.
[ ] Yonehara = Rum
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Rumi = Asaka
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey (aka the RAT)
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 217

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » Yesterday, 11:16 am

dccd wrote:Sth to read for those long days.

@Zero

Ah ok, so I missunderstood you about Sera.
So I think it would be correct to assume that Wakita somehow knows, just like Sera that Kogoro is a fraud, but the former felt a hard time to pin the stuff on Conan.

I misread this part.

A double playing Tom Cruise makes the double as Tom Cruise for the time being.

Erm no. Tom Cruise stays Tom Cruise and the double stays the double - just preteding to be TC - not actually being TC.

To make it short:
Kuroda is obv a good character
Rumi is one aswell.
So only Wakita is left for the bad guy-position.

About Kuroda
Well... Kuroda says its on his own. "Your the brain behind sleeping Kogoro".
I think Gosho didnt chose those words just4fun but to point out: Hey, this guy knows about Conan [and he´s on our side].
And he saw Conan in action in his opening chapters (I think it was 913 or sth?).
And well, I think if I were for 10 years in coma and suffer memory loss, I wouldnt kick instantly asses aswell.
Btw: Its still possible that Kuroda = Amuros boss = Tsutomu
We still dont know which agency Tsutomu belonged to. Maybe it wasnt MI6 but PSB/NPA?
But I guess we agree that Kuroda =/= BO, but more likely = Amuros boss/ or Tsutomu.
But most important : A good character.

About Rumi
I guess Ais reaction is enough: She´s good aswell.

About Wakita
So since 2/3 suspects are obviously good - I tend to believe the third one isnt.
Hints:
- Jokes about Rum (if he was Tsutomu, would he call Rum weak? Since he didnt catch him for 17 years, I doubt that).
- Didnt met Ai yet (other two did).
Gosho even managed to let him appear at Agasas without Ai being there.
- The Yaiba-hint:
I have another interpretation: Since this is the Rum arc one might see Rum as the boss (of this arc)/the one with the highest position.
So Wakita as his representative is actually the "second in command that appears in todays episode".

I actually dont see Wakita being interested in Kogoros protection. (still possible though).
Since 977 there wasnt one single panel that he spend a thought about Kogoro, but rather Conan/Shinichi.
(if "This one is pretty quick witted.." is related to Conan)
There was no single panel showing him watching the street, the window of Kogoro or whatever.
Additionally he only wants to accompany Kogoro during a murder - not a regular - case.
So I believe that he actually is after Conan and is using Kogoro only as an excuse.
Why? I tell that later.
I admit though that there wasnt any clear sign of interest in Conan in 975-977, but more in his later appearences.


Isn't Rum's latest mission given to Bourbon makes Bourbon his own representative?

Theres a difference between a representative and a simple worker/peon.
Try to see it as "secretary/right hand vs simple peon".
Vermouth in relation to the boss is a more a representative while
f.e. Korn is a peon.

And now your/the most deciding question:
The thing is, if Rum already has one representative working for him why is he relying on Bourbon?


Its a test and a trap.
Its quite interesting that in polls most people voted for "Sniffing about rats in the BO" as Rums objective.
Now Rum (from his pov) gives Bourbon a perfect mission to prove his loyalty.
In the context of the manga nearing towards his end (were in a do or die situation) and the last big clash being near (Bo vs Conan & friends)
I think every character will find his ultimate position.
So this will be a test that Bourbon will end up failing and therefore dying or escaping and fight on Conans side.


To sum it up / what I believe:
Rum met Conan and Kogoro.
Rum noticed Conans skills, but didnt get to see sleeping Kogoro.
Rum saw 3 murder cases being solved with Conan nearby but without seeing sleeping Kogoro.
Rum suspects Conan of being someone else.
Rum therefore sends his representative to do that job [Wakita] since Rum is on his own mission [killing Mary].
Rum tests Bourbon.

So is there a person who noticed Conan skills and already saw him solve 3 murder cases but didnt ever saw sleeping Kogoro?
There is.


I'm giving you a something more about the three, let's start with Kuroda,
a)He hasn't seen Conan solving a case. His introductory case was solved by him and Kansuke, he was there at the blogger's death case but he came much later after everything was done and dusted and Conan used Agasa to solve that case. He only saw Conan in his full form during burning tent murder case, and his statement came much before of that case. Kuroda knows from a different source that Conan is not an ordinary little kid. Infact dring the blogger case, he told Conan to treat him well, "Yoroshku". So Kuroda knows that Conan is the brain behind Kogoro and it's not because he has seen Conan in action.Given that he has ties with NPA, gets his transfer even before he solved the case at Nagano, tells me that he's a boss character and probably boss of Amuro and the person who handles Kohji case.
There's also another pointer that he isn't Papakai, he's not as smart as Papakai. It's stated that Papakai is smarter than Shuichi and is as smart and has a great memory, much like Shukichi. Given these two traits, he's yet to notice the bruise in Haneda's palm. Also Akai Tsutomu clashed with BO/Rum during the Kohji case, he would know for sure that Rumi isn't Rum.(Rum's eye injury was caused by him.) also Kuroda's coma is not a fake thing. It's a logistical nightmare to mimic someone who has lost an eye and good amount of face, yet genuinely forgetting to colour the white hair black. Also Tsutomu had straight hair, Kuroda's hair is curly. So if Tsutomu induced curls in his hair(as Kuroda) then why he didn't dye it? These points nullifies that a Kuroda swap happened and that tsutomu is Kuroda. I would rather think Kuroda was the inspector/spy who handled Kohji case.
b) Rumi is a tricky customer. She messed up the crime scene, took away the dying message and probably she herself created the fake dying message. (If you look closely, you can see that the mirror had backing. So it can't get cut by scissors. There aren't scratch marks suggesting the letters were gouged out, two bigger portions of the mirror are also missing. Which implies that it got broken due to impact. Now if someone just switches on the tap, ta-da, from this broken mirror, we'll get the perfect fake clue. Given her intelligence I won't put it past Rumi. I think she's the one who created this message and has the stuff/true dying message with her.) Consider this, if the current day scissors case didn't happen, what Conan and Akai would have made out of Haneda Kohji case? They wouldn't have considered that mirror as a clue. So why BO is considering it as a clue? Who was there in BO who wanted to make this as a clue? Given Rumi's tactics and the APTX list and Haibara getting triggered, I would think Rumi is an ex-BO/Rum's ex-agent who is trying to pull one over her past boss.
c) Now Wakita is the perfect Tsutomu candidate(given the hints that Mary and Gin uses same stupid nonsensical idiom, Wakita's unorthodox interjections like Shuichi, rampant use of proverbs, slyness, being very serious when Shinichi's name being mentioned.) He's here because he thinks, Rum will make a move on Kogoro(as he was involved in soul detective case), Gin will try to kill Kogoro(for becoming a constant foil in Bo's plans) and Rum might snoop around Shinichi(as it'll help Rum to make Gin look like a buffoon.)Wakita is a sure-shot BO but a benevolent one like Bourbon, while Rumi is a sure-shot BO but is sort of a grey one, Kuroda is not BO and a protector.(His name has the Kanji of protector/Asaka?)

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