Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 5:07 pm
So what's left for us going forward?

Rumi is Asaka. This is pretty much a given at this point. The questions that remain are:
1) Is she also the uploader?
2) How did she come across the APTX victims list. Is she a current or former BO? Part of some agency? Did she just hack her way through independently?

(Personally, for question 1 I'd say the answer is yes, and for 2, I'm leaning towards the hacking option. I know it'd be silly, but whatever.)

About Tsutomu:
Is he currently Kuroda, or is he just waiting around undisguised until he can make him move?

If Kuroda isn't Tsutomu, then is Kuroda anything beyond just some NPA/PSB guy? How is he connected to the Kouji case or Rum?

(Despite potential contradictions, I'd prefer it if Kuroda and Tsutomu are the same person. It'd be more economic and more convenient for us if that's the case).
Given that Gosho went with Occam's razor for the big identity mystery, the odds of Rumi actually being Asaka after all (and the uploader) just went up.
But that still leaves us with her trying to get on the news, and, indeed, she caught the attention of Rum. I'll be interested to see if Rum will now approach her in his cover identity, or will he send others to do it. If he doesn't make a move against her, then Rum must see a difference between her having such a name and Rokumichi Hado's song having such a name (954–957/866–867).

Rumi remembers Kōji bleeding from the mouth (File 1,032, Page 11), but Hyōe does not (File 987, Page 2). That implies Hyōe saw him first, which means Hyōe was at the scene of the crime, at the time of the crime.
If Kanenori, Hyōe and Rumi were all present at that hotel 17 years ago, then it seems that besides Asaka and Rum, there was another party involved—which makes a total of five parties involved... the victims, Amanda and Kōji; the culprit, Rum; Asaka, Amanda's bodyguard; and a 5th party.
Hyōe does not seem to be Tsutomu, because as far as we know, Tsutomu did not become involved in the case until Kōji's father requested him to investigate. It was only then the BO drove him underground. Yet Hyōe seems to have witnessed the case as it happened.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

andi2ews

Thank you for your conviction in the theory , but wait a minute do you think that RUM is really Wakita Kanenori ?? Hahaha , I'm sure Chikara Katsumata is RUM . ;) :)

Wakita Kanenori is a very rich person , so I think Wakita is Jirokichi's brother , I mean Wakita is from the Suzuki family .

RUM may have alternatives , Wakita may be one of Rum’s alternatives , as Haibara said in episode 792 that the common 3 characteristics of RUM may be those of his alternatives .

RUM send 2 messages to Bourbon, the way the two messages are written is different so may be two or three high-ranked people in BO using Rum's name , either in text messages or on phone calls as Wakita did .

We have not read the entire Chapter 1066 yet ,,, Wakita's words about the FBI agent ,, may be Wakita referring to Camel , but he may refer to Agent Aaron who committed suicide because he was observing someone from the organization , Aaron may be the intended person from Wakita's words , or it may be the Agent Mark, who was left by Camel in the middle of the road while chasing of BO to Camel .... Aaron was observing someone from the organization , so Wakita might be that person during working in sushi restaurant , but may actually be the destination of Wakita is Camel . I said this complicated explanation because I was wondering , how did Rum know and also how did Wakita know that the person being chased on Sea Monkey Island is Camel specifically , I mean they know that the members of organization were chasing someone from the FBI , but Wakita and Rum did not see the face of Camel which is the stalker agent ,, so these memories of Wakita may be just memories of the last confrontation between Wakita personally and the FBI . If you do not understand that sentence which I said , do not care much about it, because it depends on the leaks, but I think that Vermouth only showed the picture to Korn but Rum and Wakita did not see it .

There is another point , I don't think Korn knows the gender of RUM like chianti and Vodka , so it's hard to say that Wakita is Rum himself because Wakita went with Korn on a mission to find out if there was a trap or not , so if we say that if Wakita is Rum, then Korn knows Rum Personally, he went with him on that mission ,, but I don't think Korn knows Rum because the real Rum is another person , RUM might have substitutes as I said ,,,, but my explanation that Wakita sent a message to Rum to tell him there is a trap set up by FBI agents , so Rum immediately sends a message to Korn telling him to kill Camel and Akai Shuichi ,,,, also it is hard to believe that the organization will send RUM to know if there is a trap or not instead of Gin .

Wakita is not Rum himself and there are many reasons that deny this , especially the artificial eye, and there are many reasons such as superintelligence of RUM.

You feel Gosho wants to deceive us a lot in the last chapters ,, like to think the disguised Yusaku is Kaito Kid ,,, and Korn remembers Camel when he was in the car with Kir while Korn remembers another situation , and I think he is trying to make us think that Wakita is RUM .

It looks like Karasuma / Rum / Chikara is choosing his alternatives from rich families like Wakita who i think is from Jirokichi Suzuki family , so RUM might have other substitutes from other rich families we know in Detective Conan Anime .

There are many other reasons why Wakita is not RUM himself , I still believe that Wakita has the codename Cointreau .

What bothers me most , I expected it to be a great opportunity to know the founder of the Black Organization / Rum / Karasuma in the current volume Number 100.
But it seems Gosho liked Chikara so much so he made Chikara look like Gosho's appearance .
Karasuma appeared in chapter 300 , Chikara appeared in chapters 900, so I think if Gosho does not reveal that Chikara is RUM in the current volume , I think he will show us his identity in chapter 1100 .


I follow this forum constantly , but sometimes I take time to reply because my work is outside my residential area , and I do not have internet in this work, so I can reply when I come home every week
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by alphajjc »

So who do you guys think Iori Muga is then? I don't think he is a filler character at all especially this late in the series. He can't be Akai's father because he is too young obviously. What other spy agency would he be from? We have had all of them already. Its too many good guys i could see him being another BO member
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

What strikes me the most, is the odd act of Rum sending Camel's and Shuuichi pictures which appears to be current, for Korn to shoot. How would he take a photo without them knowing?, it may relate to a somewhat skeptical yet very possible scenario, leading to an eariler comment I wrote. Rum/Wakita wouldn't simply wear a blank prosthetic instead of a normal one for no reason. I believe that Rum, upgraded himself like Shinichi, while the latter in his Conan personna wears many gadgets, one of which is the super glasses. Rum/Wakita may have chose a blank prosthetic because it may be a gadget, that takes photos, hence how he could take photos of Shuici and Camel without them knowing. It could explain Wakita/Rum remembering the face after Korn's recognition, and that Wakita's prosthetic not only enables to take pictures, but also to do face recognition? it is certainly not beyond BO's financial ability to do so.

A far fetched theory, possible none the less.

Regarding Muga Iori, I am inclined to believe he is a previous enforcment officer, I do not think he will have that much of a big rule in the future.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kor »

So I'm not going to unpack again the "whose memory happened first or if we can even deduce that because Gosho could have made a mistake" thing. (or at least, I won't unpack it now because I have other things I must do).

But I did want to show this one extra weirdness in which, one chapter apart (1032 and 1033), Rumi has two inconsistent visual memories of dead Kouji. They're both from the volume version, so I imagine Gosho forgot to change one of them to be consistent with the other.

Here's a direct link to the image if it's more convenient that way: https://i.imgur.com/3h0P5vm.png

Image


Also, looking at more recent Kouji images (both dead and not dead) it honestly looks to me like Gosho changed his mind about his eyebrows. They now look less bushy than initially seen (especially compared to his pic on the uploader's site)

EDIT:

Actually, for your convenience, here's every dead Kouji visual we've gotten so far in chronological order (from volume versions)
https://i.imgur.com/at1WIc2.png

If you click on the link, you can see an enlarged version of the picture.
Spoiler:
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 6:14 pm
So I'm not going to unpack again the "whose memory happened first or if we can even deduce that because Gosho could have made a mistake" thing. (or at least, I won't unpack it now because I have other things I must do).
In regards to Rumi's flashbacks in 1,032–1,034, I've only seen the raw version, not the Volume 97 version. If both the volume and raw versions are the same, then that means we have two layers of error—not catching the mistake immediately, while the file was being made, and not catching it during the review process leading up to the volume's release.
It'd be an unforced error, too—the original dead Kōji image didn't have the blood, so all Goshō had to do to avoid me and others tripping ourselves up was to not draw that blood.
And it would also be a repeated unforced error—blood from the mouth of Kōji was then drawn in two other cases, one also in Volume 97 and another in Volume 98.

File 987 and Volume 93 came out in 2017; Files 1,032–1,034 and Volume 97 came out in 2019. I can see this time gap potentially causing this error—a combination of Gosho changing his mind for 1,032–1,034 and forgetting about 987. If he took enough notice of Kōji's eyebrows, then it's quite a blind spot that he missed the far more noticeable blood.

But with no one asking about this and getting an answer as to whether the blood from the mouth in Rumi's memory and the lack thereof in Hyōe's memory are intentionally-made differences that point to the truth or errors causing myself and others to accidentally mislead ourselves, I suppose we can't say for sure it is or is not a detail that'll prove key in deducing what happened during the Kōji case.

Until someone asks Goshō during a Q&A or we get a big exposition dump from Hyōe about himself that implicitly/explicitly contradicts this detail, I'm prepared to keep using it as a detail that points to Hyōe seeing the crime earlier than Rumi. It's not as solid of a point as others, but it's a detail we do have.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kor »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 7:38 pm
I'm prepared to keep using it as a detail that points to Hyōe seeing the crime earlier than Rumi. It's not as solid of a point as others, but it's a detail we do have.
Can you rationalize this timeline, though? Even ignoring how the bruises that magically look less severe in Rumi's memory and the bigger stain that should have remained on Kouji's lip on the left, here's how it'd have had to play out:

Rum kills Kouji. Rum leaves.
Kuroda shows up at the scene, potentially missing Rum (I guess), but early enough before Kouji starts bleeding (which I'm still not sure is medically logical, but whatever), and then he leaves.
Rumi, who, as the bodyguard, is at the hotel, shows up after Kuroda's gone, takes the shogi piece, and then leaves.

Isn't this a bit too unlikely to have happened that way?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 8:17 pm
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 7:38 pm
I'm prepared to keep using it as a detail that points to Hyōe seeing the crime earlier than Rumi. It's not as solid of a point as others, but it's a detail we do have.
Can you rationalize this timeline, though? Even ignoring how the bruises that magically look less severe in Rumi's memory and the bigger stain that should have remained on Kouji's lip on the left, here's how it'd have had to play out:

Rum kills Kouji. Rum leaves.
Kuroda shows up at the scene, potentially missing Rum (I guess), but early enough before Kouji starts bleeding (which I'm still not sure is medically logical, but whatever), and then he leaves.
Rumi, who, as the bodyguard, is at the hotel, shows up after Kuroda's gone, takes the shogi piece, and then leaves.

Isn't this a bit too unlikely to have happened that way?
Here's my explanation of why Hyōe is the most likely to have seen it first (again, assuming Gosho didn't make a mistake and now I'm misleading myself with it):
When Mary (File 1,037 flashback) Shinichi/Conan (File 1,042), Yumi (File 1,043) and Rei/Bourbon (File 1,052) are referring to it, we get an image of the pool of blood beneath Kōji's face. That strikes me as an image that even the public is aware of, as the four referring to it were definitely not there to see it happen. That means this was likely a publicized crime scene photo, which means the police found Kōji's dead body with blood having already coming out of his mouth and pooled beneath his face.
For Rumi to have seen Kōji's body before Hyōe would require Kōji's blood to have already pooled beneath his face when Rumi saw him, for the blood to then be wiped up by the time Hyōe saw it, and then for Kōji to have started bleeding again and make another pool by the time the police arrived.
Thus, I assume Hyōe saw it first.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kor »

So do you agree with the timeline I wrote above?

I understand why you reached that conclusion, I'm just asking if you can apply said conclusion to a logical timeline of events.

Rumi has Kouji's shogi piece, that much is clear.
Spoiler:
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If Kuroda arrived before Rumi, then the shogi piece should have still been at the scene, but then the conclusion from the page above would be 100% wrong because Kuroda would see a dead Kouji still with a piece, thus the PSB could easily conclude that the murderer doesn't in fact have the piece.

And I don't think it can be argued that Kouji actually gave Rumi the piece before his murder, because Wakita also tried to bait Conan with the concept of the missing piece from the crime scene.
Spoiler:
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In order for the police to think the murderer might be the one who took the piece, Kuroda, a (current) Japanese law enforcement entity, couldn't have arrived before Rumi had the chance to take the piece from the crime scene.
(And also why would Kuroda leave the scene and allow Rumi the opportunity to wander around and take stuff?)

EDIT:
Actually, this begs another conclusion. If one thinks Kuroda arrived before Rumi, and the shogi piece was still there (thus the PSB has incorrect info about the timeline of the case), then one has to also argue that 17 years ago, the current Kuroda wasn't a Japanese officer, in which case, who was he and what was his role?

(and if one argues that Kuroda came after Rumi, then he might have been a Japanese officer, though it's also possible he was something else.)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 9:37 pm
So do you agree with the timeline I wrote above?

I understand why you reached that conclusion, I'm just asking if you can apply said conclusion to a logical timeline of events.
Well, as for the timeline...
My problems with making one myself will be rectified with the answers to the following questions:
  • Why did Amanda's room have no signs of struggle? Did Kanenori/Rum sneak in, or did she let him in?
  • If Amanda let Kanenori/Rum into her room, then why did she? Was she actually two-timing the American intelligence agencies with the BO, and the BO eventually decided to eliminate a potential risk? Or did she get tricked into letting the BO's 2nd in command in?
  • Was Asaka a BO agent or not? If Asaka was a BO agent, then why did Kanenori/Rum need to be there and carry out the killing of Amanda?
  • How did Kōji witness Amanda's murder?
  • Why did Kōji run into his room instead of towards the stairs?
  • Did Rum receive his eye injury during the Kōji case?
  • Were there only five parties to the crime—Kanenori/Rum, Rumi, Amanda, Kōji and Hyōe—or were there more?
Answers to those questions will give me more confidence in making a logical timeline of events. 'Cause right now, I don't have much confidence in making one, myself.
Kor wrote:
December 6th, 2020, 9:37 pm
Rumi has Kouji's shogi piece, that much is clear.

If Kuroda arrived before Rumi, then the shogi piece should have still been at the scene, but then the conclusion from the page above would be 100% wrong because Kuroda would see a dead Kouji still with a piece, thus the PSB could easily conclude that the murderer doesn't in fact have the piece.

And I don't think it can be argued that Kouji actually gave Rumi the piece before his murder, because Wakita also tried to bait Conan with the concept of the missing piece from the crime scene.

In order for the police to think the murderer might be the one who took the piece, Kuroda, a (current) Japanese law enforcement entity, couldn't have arrived before Rumi had the chance to take the piece from the crime scene.
(And also why would Kuroda leave the scene and allow Rumi the opportunity to wander around and take stuff?)

EDIT:
Actually, this begs another conclusion. If one thinks Kuroda arrived before Rumi, and the shogi piece was still there (thus the PSB has incorrect info about the timeline of the case), then one has to also argue that 17 years ago, the current Kuroda wasn't a Japanese officer, in which case, who was he and what was his role?

(and if one argues that Kuroda came after Rumi, then he might have been a Japanese officer, though it's also possible he was something else.)
And this brings me to my doubt over whether Rumi is actually Asaka, and the possibility that Hyōe could be Asaka. (hence why I didn't put either Rumi/Asaka or Hyōe/Asaka in the list above)
True, with Goshō having Kanenori be Rum, the also straightforward "Rumi is Asaka" theory is looking more likely. Hyōe is now exonerated from being Rum... but the coma incident of 10 years ago hasn't been addressed. Is Hyōe, now the Backstage Administrator for Japan's Security Bureaus, the true Hyōe Kuroda? If someone else has now swapped with him, who is this impostor?
If the information that Tsutomu didn't get involved with the Kōji case until Kōji's father requested him to investigate is indeed the truth, then I don't think Hyōe is Tsutomu. So how, then, does Hyōe remember being at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime?
In terms of who could've replaced Hyōe, I'd say that if Asaka isn't Rumi, and Tsutomu isn't Hyōe, then Asaka is probably Hyōe.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kor »

I think Rumi's scars are an indication she's Asaka and she fought Rum during the Kouji case. (Of course, the scars could have come from some other circumstance)

Moving on to another conundrum, since Wakita was definitely not in the camping case, then who did Haibara get the BO vibes from?

Three options:

1) From Rumi. The visuals support that too (not that this necessarily makes things any certain). If Rumi is in the BO, that would certainly explain why she has the APTX victims list. If she was in the BO, though, then it's a bit murkier why she'd have access to very recent data that includes Shinichi's name. I can think of some logistical issues like, Amuro doesn't recognize her, Wakita doesn't seem concerned about a member walking around with a name that evokes the dying message, and why would she suddenly show up at Conan's school? As is, I think it's more likely she was BO than she currently is. Wouldn't explain the APTX victims list, but... there's always magical hacking powers, I guess.

2) From Kuroda. But since he's aware that Amuro's a spy, he's not loyal to the BO, so if Kuroda has to have BO connections, then my guess is he was previously BO, so either that's the reason he went into comma (he got found out and was gravely injured), or the current Kuroda is not the real one but a former spy in the BO and the NPA replaced him with Kuroda so he can use that as his new identity. (Or some other entity replaced him with the real Kuroda)

3) From no one. What if Gosho reveals that this BO vibes hint was also fake? That would be terrible, right? But he also could, right? That's not 100% beneath him now, I think. I mean, I hope it's not going to be the case, but now suddenly there is a 1% chance at least that he finds some flimsy excuse why Haibara got triggered even though neither were in the BO.

So to sum up:

The less messy explanation: Rumi was/is (but probably was) in the BO
The very messy explanation: Kuroda was in the BO and he may be a real or fake Kuroda and if he's fake he could be Tsutomu who was also MI6, but gotta account for how Mary and Gin used the same phrase so it had to have come from somewhere and Tsutomu is the only possible connective tissue.*
The "Gosho being a dick again" explanation: None of them were/are BO

*Seriously, is there any explanation to that "demon in the darkness" thing other than Tsutomu being in the BO for a time? Cause in this case, he either infiltrated the BO for a time, or Gin once had to fight him and Tsutomu just happened to utter that phrase, or Mary and Gin just happened to coincidentally utter the exact same phrase in the exact same chapter and there's no hidden truth behind it.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

Based on what you guys wrote, and the fact that only in Hyoe's memory is Kohji's corpse without the blood. It is most likely that at this point in Hyoe's memory, Kohji was not dead but knocked unconcious. Leading to the public image as seen with Rumi, Conan and others. As we know, Kohji is on the APTX list, meaning he definitely was forced into eating it, and the most likely scenario is that he was force fed the APTX after being knocked not before, as it would have saved him the bruises and led to an earlier death/deage. So in other words, if Rum killed Amanda, and his subordinate 'his mistake' decided to rebel and protect Kohji, leading to a fight between Rum and Rumi. Rumi is then knocked, Rum force feed Kohji the APTX and leave, and his mistake in the matter is leaving Rumi 'his protege' alive (explaining her access to APTX list). After Rum leaves, Rumi wakes up and grabs Kohji's belongings, i.e.; The horse piece and the mirror. At this point the dead Kohji started to bleed out due to APTX (mainly a guess that APTX does this bleeding).

A very plausible theory; Hyoe was Rum and Rumi was Asaka, Rumi rebeled, and left the BO, Hyoe fought against Tsutomo and they supposedly died, Hyoe resurfaces as Kuroda rather than his previous ID as Rum, and while he went under a coma, another member of the BO became the new Rum in the time of the coma (Wakita=new Rum), which explains his Pirate's Spirit quote. Who could be very likely Tsutomo himself, and was undercover in BO, saw the chance after Rum's mistake to use his own ID as Wakita and rise to become new Rum to reach the boss.
Perhaps proving the description of 3 claims of Rum to be true; The feminine was his protege Asaka, the strong is the new Rum, and the old is the Rum that was left by the BO, who had to change his ID to escape BO and became Hyoe Kuroda.

It would explain the BO vibe of Haibara, except for Wakita. And the fact that Gin is wary of Rum having live enemies who know him (Rumi) and the BO's sensitive awareness of anything named Asaka. And the interaction of Hyoe and Rumi at the camp, it might make sense somehow..
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kor »

I think it's safe to say Haibara got the vibe only from one source in the camping case. It'd be very random if at the only time she gets triggered from one of them (whom she's met before and didn't get triggered), both give her the vibe at the same time.

I really don't see how Tsutomu can be Wakita at this point. Wakita's clearly an evil asshole, and Gosho doesn't make good characters do truly despicable things. Plus, it'd mean Tsutomu has done a shit job at stopping the BO from targeting his family. They killed his son and his wife (as far as the BO knows). And in the latest chapter, Korn says that Rum told him to kill Akai if he ever sees him. Lastly, it'd make the BO even more pathetic if some outside party managed to infiltrate its ranks and climb all the way to become its second in command.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Unlucky Devil »

Kor wrote:
December 7th, 2020, 9:29 am
I think it's safe to say Haibara got the vibe only from one source in the camping case. It'd be very random if at the only time she gets triggered from one of them (whom she's met before and didn't get triggered), both give her the vibe at the same time.

I really don't see how Tsutomu can be Wakita at this point. Wakita's clearly an evil asshole, and Gosho doesn't make good characters do truly despicable things. Plus, it'd mean Tsutomu has done a shit job at stopping the BO from targeting his family. They killed his son and his wife (as far as the BO knows). And in the latest chapter, Korn says that Rum told him to kill Akai if he ever sees him. Lastly, it'd make the BO even more pathetic if some outside party managed to infiltrate its ranks and climb all the way to become its second in command.
Tsutomu can be Wakita, if you consider the reveal to be fake. I'm still waiting for the full translation, but the phone conversations could have conveniently been with two different people. The car details and the co-passenger details are different enough for me to be skeptical about Wakita = Rum. It seems like how Gosho tried to establish Jodie as Vermouth by the photos on the cupboard.
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andi2ews

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by andi2ews »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
December 5th, 2020, 8:08 pm
andi2ews

Thank you for your conviction in the theory , but wait a minute do you think that RUM is really Wakita Kanenori ?? Hahaha , I'm sure Chikara Katsumata is RUM . ;) :)

Wakita Kanenori is a very rich person , so I think Wakita is Jirokichi's brother , I mean Wakita is from the Suzuki family .

RUM may have alternatives , Wakita may be one of Rum’s alternatives , as Haibara said in episode 792 that the common 3 characteristics of RUM may be those of his alternatives .

RUM send 2 messages to Bourbon, the way the two messages are written is different so may be two or three high-ranked people in BO using Rum's name , either in text messages or on phone calls as Wakita did .

We have not read the entire Chapter 1066 yet ,,, Wakita's words about the FBI agent ,, may be Wakita referring to Camel , but he may refer to Agent Aaron who committed suicide because he was observing someone from the organization , Aaron may be the intended person from Wakita's words , or it may be the Agent Mark, who was left by Camel in the middle of the road while chasing of BO to Camel .... Aaron was observing someone from the organization , so Wakita might be that person during working in sushi restaurant , but may actually be the destination of Wakita is Camel . I said this complicated explanation because I was wondering , how did Rum know and also how did Wakita know that the person being chased on Sea Monkey Island is Camel specifically , I mean they know that the members of organization were chasing someone from the FBI , but Wakita and Rum did not see the face of Camel which is the stalker agent ,, so these memories of Wakita may be just memories of the last confrontation between Wakita personally and the FBI . If you do not understand that sentence which I said , do not care much about it, because it depends on the leaks, but I think that Vermouth only showed the picture to Korn but Rum and Wakita did not see it .

There is another point , I don't think Korn knows the gender of RUM like chianti and Vodka , so it's hard to say that Wakita is Rum himself because Wakita went with Korn on a mission to find out if there was a trap or not , so if we say that if Wakita is Rum, then Korn knows Rum Personally, he went with him on that mission ,, but I don't think Korn knows Rum because the real Rum is another person , RUM might have substitutes as I said ,,,, but my explanation that Wakita sent a message to Rum to tell him there is a trap set up by FBI agents , so Rum immediately sends a message to Korn telling him to kill Camel and Akai Shuichi ,,,, also it is hard to believe that the organization will send RUM to know if there is a trap or not instead of Gin .

Wakita is not Rum himself and there are many reasons that deny this , especially the artificial eye, and there are many reasons such as superintelligence of RUM.

You feel Gosho wants to deceive us a lot in the last chapters ,, like to think the disguised Yusaku is Kaito Kid ,,, and Korn remembers Camel when he was in the car with Kir while Korn remembers another situation , and I think he is trying to make us think that Wakita is RUM .

It looks like Karasuma / Rum / Chikara is choosing his alternatives from rich families like Wakita who i think is from Jirokichi Suzuki family , so RUM might have other substitutes from other rich families we know in Detective Conan Anime .

There are many other reasons why Wakita is not RUM himself , I still believe that Wakita has the codename Cointreau .

What bothers me most , I expected it to be a great opportunity to know the founder of the Black Organization / Rum / Karasuma in the current volume Number 100.
But it seems Gosho liked Chikara so much so he made Chikara look like Gosho's appearance .
Karasuma appeared in chapter 300 , Chikara appeared in chapters 900, so I think if Gosho does not reveal that Chikara is RUM in the current volume , I think he will show us his identity in chapter 1100 .


I follow this forum constantly , but sometimes I take time to reply because my work is outside my residential area , and I do not have internet in this work, so I can reply when I come home every week
I appreciate your tenacity but seems hard for after this development. Especially for Wakita = Suzuki member, they are similar but this doesnt mean nothing. I will continue to cheer for chikara anyway. Maybe he is not RUM but Karasuma at least. I didnt think he is not relevant at all in the story cause Shogi seems very important.
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