Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » May 31st, 2017, 6:52 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Are you implying that he didn't remove the mirror from its casing before cutting it under water?
No, but it may be possible to cut/crack/stab it from within the frame carefully. But that's not my point.
Remember, glass doesn't snip like paper. Cracks still propagate. You try to cut thin glass from the middle and not the edges - say on the left of the U, and the glass is going to fracture in half in a way that is mostly uncontrolled. There is a good reason why in all the glass cutting videos they start from the outside and work in. In fact, someone uploaded a video of what happens when you try cutting from the middle. Makes a proper mess.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNXGTC5EmS4
To make that shogi shape intentionally would be incredible difficult. In addition, that level of precision will take time, especially for someone who doesn't cut glass with scissors on the regular. That's time taken away from putting the big pieces back in the frame to reassemble the mirror minus the cut letters.
You have this idea, but it's clear that you haven't thought about the step by step method of execution and the difficulties that would entail.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » June 1st, 2017, 4:01 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Remember, glass doesn't snip like paper. Cracks still propagate. You try to cut thin glass from the middle and not the edges - say on the left of the U, and the glass is going to fracture in half in a way that is mostly uncontrolled.
How are you proposing he cut it? What way would give the end-result that we have in front of us?
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
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Henry Gordan
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Henry Gordan » June 1st, 2017, 10:13 am

Even if you cut glass with glass cutter, you draw a line with it and snap it. It doesn't work like in cartoons that you make a circle with diamond and pull it out with a sucktion cup.
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Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 1st, 2017, 2:16 pm

Henry Gordan wrote:Even if you cut glass with glass cutter, you draw a line with it and snap it. It doesn't work like in cartoons that you make a circle with diamond and pull it out with a sucktion cup.


That's why you need the constant water-flow to make the cuts.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » June 3rd, 2017, 12:02 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Remember, glass doesn't snip like paper. Cracks still propagate. You try to cut thin glass from the middle and not the edges - say on the left of the U, and the glass is going to fracture in half in a way that is mostly uncontrolled.
How are you proposing he cut it? What way would give the end-result that we have in front of us?
Traveling, apologies for the delay.
1. Removed it from the frame and cut it, which caused it to break into several large pieces which were easily reassembled and put back in the frame. The first cut of the U would have broke it into a 1/3 and 2/3rds, then once broken the second cut would be easier. Additional cracks may have been caused later by rough handling - e.g. dropping the mirror, steeping on it in a fight, etc.
2. Simply applying strong pressure with the scissor blade edge while the mirror was still in the frame to crack the glass in a controlled manner with the help of the water. Splits are more likely to form along the line of pressure. This technique only works on thin pieces of glass which the mirror is, but many uncontrolled cracks will propagate which there are many of.

Neither method can reliably produce a shogi-like shape, but both are accurate enough to get the letters one desires out as long as one doesn't care too much about the damage in general done to the glass.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » June 3rd, 2017, 12:54 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Remember, glass doesn't snip like paper. Cracks still propagate. You try to cut thin glass from the middle and not the edges - say on the left of the U, and the glass is going to fracture in half in a way that is mostly uncontrolled.
How are you proposing he cut it? What way would give the end-result that we have in front of us?
Traveling, apologies for the delay.
1. Removed it from the frame and cut it, which caused it to break into several large pieces which were easily reassembled and put back in the frame. The first cut of the U would have broke it into a 1/3 and 2/3rds, then once broken the second cut would be easier. Additional cracks may have been caused later by rough handling - e.g. dropping the mirror, steeping on it in a fight, etc.
There's one way where he could create the absence of a shogi-like shape, following the first method. After breaking them into several large pieces(and they end up deviating from the intended shape), the shards, that together form the absence of "U" shard, can individually be cut along the edges so that they form the shogi-like shape when they are reassembled.
However, in this case, it would mean that only the absence of the "U" shard has a Shogi-like shape, and not the "U" shard itself(meaning that Rumi's object wouldn't look like the absence of the "U" shard, if the object is the "U" shard).

On the other hand however, there's the possibility that on his first try, only one side of the U shard(that is visible in Rumi's pocket) resembled a shogi-like shape, while the other side didn't, which would make Kohji cut along the edges of the shard on that one bad side(to make the absence of the U shard completely shogi-like). In this case, the absence looks shogi-like, and can be picked up by the message reader, while Rumi's object can be the "U" shard(that only resembles the absence of the that shard on the side that is visible to us in her pocket).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 3rd, 2017, 1:49 pm

It's less likely to be the glass shard, the glass shard appears much smaller than the perceived item. Also Glass shards coming out of hand-mirrors aren't that thick to be prominent like thatm, when kept in a pocket.
reliq
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby reliq » June 3rd, 2017, 2:29 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Remember, glass doesn't snip like paper. Cracks still propagate. You try to cut thin glass from the middle and not the edges - say on the left of the U, and the glass is going to fracture in half in a way that is mostly uncontrolled.
How are you proposing he cut it? What way would give the end-result that we have in front of us?
Traveling, apologies for the delay.
1. Removed it from the frame and cut it, which caused it to break into several large pieces which were easily reassembled and put back in the frame. The first cut of the U would have broke it into a 1/3 and 2/3rds, then once broken the second cut would be easier. Additional cracks may have been caused later by rough handling - e.g. dropping the mirror, steeping on it in a fight, etc.
2. Simply applying strong pressure with the scissor blade edge while the mirror was still in the frame to crack the glass in a controlled manner with the help of the water. Splits are more likely to form along the line of pressure. This technique only works on thin pieces of glass which the mirror is, but many uncontrolled cracks will propagate which there are many of.

Neither method can reliably produce a shogi-like shape, but both are accurate enough to get the letters one desires out as long as one doesn't care too much about the damage in general done to the glass.


For the first method i found a video where the person removes the mirror from its case but i dont know if the same applies here and it doesnt look like to remove it easily. the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAnbnhk3Zyo

as for the second method u mentioned how would he hold the scissor to crack the glass while it was still in the frame ?
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » June 3rd, 2017, 10:58 pm

reliq wrote:as for the second method u mentioned how would he hold the scissor to crack the glass while it was still in the frame ?
Whatever is convenient. My current belief is that the marks on his hand from gripping the scissors defensively came after he did whatever with the mirror. Using scissors doesn't normally create bruises, but fighting with a defensive grip + intentions to leave marks on his hand in case the scissors were removed should do it.
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 4th, 2017, 1:43 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
reliq wrote:as for the second method u mentioned how would he hold the scissor to crack the glass while it was still in the frame ?
Whatever is convenient. My current belief is that the marks on his hand from gripping the scissors defensively came after he did whatever with the mirror. Using scissors doesn't normally create bruises, but fighting with a defensive grip + intentions to leave marks on his hand in case the scissors were removed should do it.


If the bruises were due to cutting the glass they would have been seen a bit higher than their initial position, the bruise were left this means Haneda died while holding onto the scissors, and after his death the scissors were removed from his hand.
reliq
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby reliq » June 5th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Maybe the scissors werent removed after from his hand. It looks like its lying under a piece of crockery or glass.

Image
Max1996
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Max1996 » June 6th, 2017, 6:46 am

reliq wrote:Maybe the scissors werent removed after from his hand. It looks like its lying under a piece of crockery or glass.

Image

If that is the case, it would mean the cups were smashed after the scissors were removed from Kouji's hand.
Zerozaki4869
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 6th, 2017, 10:08 am

Max1996 wrote:
reliq wrote:Maybe the scissors werent removed after from his hand. It looks like its lying under a piece of crockery or glass.

Image

If that is the case, it would mean the cups were smashed after the scissors were removed from Kouji's hand.


The person who took the scissors from Haneda's hand could also have put pieces of broken crockery over it, to camouflage the fact that he/she touched the stuff.

On a serious note I think it's the ripe time to search for the ally whom Ethan Houndou mentioned to Kir before dying.

Who can be this "ally", was there another infiltrator from the CIA in BO whose cover didn't blow up? Why was Ethan Hondou was so sure that an ally would show up, when the internal atmosphere of BO is of witch-hunting for NOC's.

I think it might lead to Ethan Hondou, mentioning that Tsutomu Akai, his CIA colleague also infiltrated the BO and will evntually aid Kir in her mission.
Last edited by Spimer on June 6th, 2017, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Combined your posts, please try to avoid double posting
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » June 7th, 2017, 9:38 am

Rum Arc Discussion Series: Update #1

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This is my first update on my thoughts regarding the previously discussed characters and plot. I'll be going in order of the discussion series.

Wakita Kanenori
Spoiler:
There's something that I have noticed about the setup and order of the cases that leads up to the characters' introduction. What I initially realized was that the "Soul Detective" case(File 951-953) is seemingly setting up Wakita's introduction(File 975-977) and his purpose in the story(File 977+). Indications of that was first of all the cliffhanger with Gin, where his suspicion towards Kogoro grew strong enough for him to wanna take action(File 953), which fits with the development where Wakita becomes Kogoro's apprentice(most likely with the intention to verify Gin's suspicion)(File 977).

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Another one is the "Kid Killer News" reference and the reminder that they can be read in the papers(File 951), which fits with the moment where Wakita is reading the papers about someone he refers to as "quick-witted"(most likely referring to Conan)(File 980).

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This idea was further supported after realizing the potential link between Wakita and Mary. This link is found through the clues in the "Ripples" series(File 972-974). In that flashback series, we get to see the aftermath of Mary using her knife-hand strike on Akai(File 972). Mary left a mark on Akai's left eye as a result of that strike, which fits directly with Wakita's damaged left eye(most likely as a result of her defending herself from him)(File 975).

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Taking my previous speculations about Wakita into consideration, this is heavily implying that before he set his eyes on Kogoro, he had a confrontation with Mary at some point, that lead into a fight. Another setup towards Wakita's introduction, during the Ripple series(File 972-974), even indicates that Wakita is the one responsible for Mary's shrinking. This happens at the end(File 974), where Conan is asking himself about Mary's circumstance and who caused it, which is right before the introduction of Wakita in the following chapter(File 975).

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This is also probably another one of Gosho's introduction foreshadowings, that indicates that Wakita drugged Mary, and considering that the Soul detective case(that sets up Wakita) heavily focused on Mary, and how she could have been drugged, it further supports this interpretation.

In other words, Wakita, who's the "closest subordinate" of the boss, attacked Mary and fed her Sherry's prototype drug. Only high-ranked/code-named BO members have so far been confirmed to have access to the "incomplete detective"(prototype), so it makes sense for Wakita to have access to it if he's the closest subordinate to the boss. If this is the case, then it's highly likely that the reason why Gin and Mary used the same quote("It's like encountering a demon in the darkness") is related to Wakita as well. Since Wakita is the only potential tie between Mary and Gin, this quote could be something that Wakita frequently uses.

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This would mean that Wakita said that quote to Mary(who is most likely a former MI6 agent in hiding, as mentioned in the Wakita discussion), probably as a way of acknowledging her as a threat to the BO. Since Wakita could be a BO member, it would be natural for Gin to hear that sentence at least once. However, considering that we have seen an example to the kind of relationship that someone has with someone that they borrow a quote from in Rum arc, through Shuukichi(File 947), there's a possibility that Gin looks up to Wakita in a similar way. Wakita could be a mentor figure to Gin, which would fall well in line with the fact that Wakita's character design is based on a coach character from the "Ashita no joe" anime.

Wakasa Rumi
Spoiler:
Previously, my speculations regarding Rumi wasn't set on one direction, since her whole deal was quite ambiguous. At the moment however, recent developments had clues that pointed more towards one direction. Rumi was at first suspected to be Asaka or Vermouth, but after picking up more clues, it's looking like Rumi is more likely to be Vermouth.

Similarly to Wakita's introduction, Rumi's introduction also seemingly has a lot of setup towards it. Just like how there were indications that the Soul Detective case was a setup for Wakita's intro, the "betrayal" series(File 954-957) has also many hints that it was setting up Rumi's intro and that Rumi is Vermouth. One of them is the fact that it was a "whisky trio" case(Rye/Bourbon/Scotch), where Vermouth was interested in Subaru(Rye)(File 954-957), which fits with Rumi's whisky reference and that it's her favorite drink(possibly Gosho's attempt to create a link to that case and to also foreshadow Rumi's person of interest)(File 967).

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Another one is the fact that Vermouth found out that professor Agasa is Subaru's neighbor(File 955), which fits with the fact that Rumi showed interest in Agasa(the neighbor of the man Vermouth is suspicious of)(File 966).

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There's also something else, that I failed to notice before, that not only strengthens the introduction foreshadowing, that Gosho possibly used during Rumi's intro(as mentioned in my Rumi discussion), but also ties it to the Betrayal series. Gosho established a parallell between Vermouth and Kaito Kid(File 958), and then potentially utilized it panels before Rumi's intro through DB's conversation(hinting that Vermouth's disguise is involved in Rumi's intro)(File 966).

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As for the new developments, the strongest indicator that Rumi is Vermouth is the fact that Rumi triggered Haibara's BO sense(File 978). When Subaru triggered Haibara's BO sense, the only living man that was confirmed to have triggered her at that time was Akai. Similarly to this, the only living female character to have done that before Rumi is Vermouth.

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Beyond the fact that Subaru and Rumi were setup to be the main suspects of their respective arcs, they are very similar in how Gosho is developing them. For example, both of them were in an Ayumi-hostage-situation where they had to rely on their own experience to create an opening against the culprit. Subaru's being crime-related knowledge(File 666), and Rumi's being murder(Which Vermouth has experience of)(File 989).

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Gosho is even repeating the whole deal with how one person is suspecting the red-herring, while the other isn't. In Subaru's case, Haibara had a suspicion, but Conan rejected it(File 624), while in Rumi's case, Conan had a suspicion, but Haibara rejected it(File 989).

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All of these parallels between Subaru and Rumi are most likely intentional, since Rumi's story might be leading to a similar development as Subaru's, where she ends up being a character, that we already knew, in disguise.

As I mentioned in my Rumi discussion, when she invited DB to her house(File 978), her goal was probably to get more information on Subaru. Since she bought cups and plates for a group, we know that she was expecting the DB to tag along with Conan to her house. Since she sensed that a crime was gonna happen, by inviting Conan and DB, it is guaranteed that Conan would go and investigate it(like in Betrayal), which would give Rumi an opening to pry on Subaru through DB. If for some reason the crime didn't happen, then her pre-established plan of dropping them off one by one at their home becomes the opening for her to get information on Subaru(which wouldn't have been possible in the first scenario, since the police would have taken them in for questioning and then dropped them off themselves).

The developments in the latest Rumi case(File 987-989) suggested that Rumi possesses something that is connected to the Kohji case. This seems to imply that she has a personal interest in that 17-year-old case(rather than her just wanting to confirm Conan's Kohji investigation). During the betrayal series(File 954-957) Vermouth's actions suggested that she wanted to get involved in Bourbon's mission in order to investigate Kohji's dying message. The first indication was the fact that she unnecessarily offered her blackmailer to help with a disguise(which naturally includes getting involved in the mission in order to oversee the disguise, like in File 852), when he could just force it from her if he really needed to(File 954).

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The second indication is the fact that she still involved herself in Bourbon's mission, with a rushed disguise of Asuza, despite the fact that Bourbon was enough for the job(File 955).

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There's therefore a possibility that she involved herself because she was personally interested in the dying message that involves "ASACA", just like Rumi. The object in Rumi's pocket has a shape that looks similar to a Shogi piece at first sight, but after taking a closer look at its edges, the object's shape deviates from a normal shogi piece quite a bit. The object's shape looks more similar to the missing "U" shard's shape(that was hidden by Kohji in order to deliver his dying message).

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For Rumi to possess that shard, she had to have been in the US and entered Kohji's room in Juke Hotel(Which Vermouth would have been capable of). Since it's implied that Rumi is trying to portray herself as Asaka to Conan(As mentioned in my Rumi discussion), it's possible that she brought that shard with her in order to convince Conan that she's Asaka if the opportunity arises(since it would at least imply that she was there in the crime scene if she showed it to him).

Why is Vermouth interested in the dying message?
What we know is that the BO at least can interpret "ASACA" from the dying message(since they involved themselves in the Betrayal case because of that word). For that reason, it's possible that the BO are trying to find Asaka(if we assume that she's a woman), who mysteriously disappeared from the Kohji case. Since we know that the prototype drug of Sherry's parents was involved in that case, and since we have a mysterious disappearance of a character that the BO seems to be looking for, there's a high possibility that Asaka was also drugged, when Rum attacked Amanda, and instead of dying, another effect of the Miyano's prototype took place(ultimately leading to her escape).
From a narrative standpoint, it makes sense for Gosho to create a character that was affected by the Miyano's prototype in order to dive into the mystery of the Silver Bullet research(the goal of the drug that Sherry's parents were making), just like how we have characters that were affected by the APTX4869(Sherry's research). Since we recently got more details to the "accident" that killed Sherry's parents, as well as the confirmation that Sherry's(BO's) and the Miyano's research goal were different all along(File 948), it makes sense for it to be relevant in this arc.

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If Asaka was drugged, and then survived like Conan and Haibara, because of an effect that doesn't kill(which isn't necessarily shrinking), then it would explain why Vermouth is interested in the dying message. Vermouth would have reasons to suspect that Asaka disappeared because the SB prototype didn't kill her, since she knows that the APTX prototype(that is based on SB research remains) didn't kill Shinichi and Sherry. Since Vermouth wants to hide any indication of progress to the BO research, it makes sense for her to have personal reasons in trying to figure out the dying message, since it might have something to do with Asaka, who she wants to eliminate(before BO finds out about an effect that doesn't kill). This would also explain why she reacted towards "prosthetic" in an angry manner, while gripping an object that is connected to the dying message(File 987). Rum, who has a prosthetic, was the reason for Asaka getting drugged and disappearing, and ultimately creating this mess that she has to cover up.

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So, by having Conan think that she's Asaka(a framed witness), she would get the opportunity to use his help to solve the dying message quicker and potentially find the real Asaka.

As for Rumi's suspicious bumping in her introduction(File 966), that Conan suspected was due to her having monocular vision, it is most likely due to her glasses. Adapting to monocular vision roughly takes 1 year(unless the loss was gradual), meaning that symptoms like bumping your head would have been more frequent(If she lost her eye/vision within a year) and not have stopped after her intro case. It makes more sense that what tricked her perception of distance was something that she adjusted to immediately after her intro case, which is her glasses. Adjusting to new glasses takes normally just a couple of days. Glasses has also been a very prominent part in disguises in DC, and since it's common among teachers, it makes sense that she would complete her disguise with that(like Conan in File 2).

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Her interaction with Kuroda didn't imply any prior knowledge of him, but rather just her trying to verify what he knows about her. Since he treated her like a criminal(by asking for her permission about calling the police)(File 987), she most likely suspected that he might know that she's Vermouth in disguise. In order to get information out of him, she intentionally tried to push him into a corner until he made a slip-up, which revealed that he only read about her in the news(File 988).

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In other words, Rumi was simply overthinking about Kuroda's knowledge. It's possible that Gosho was foreshadowing this development during Rumi's previous appearance. Gosho drew Conan with a reflection on his right lense while thinking "I thought a little to deep this time"(File 979). The glass reflection could have been intentional in order to create a parallell with Rumi(who always has a reflection on her right lense when she's serious), in order to foreshadow that she's gonna think deeper than necessary in her next appearance(File 987-989). This isn't unlikely, since the end of that Golfer case(File 980) was also setting up the events in Rumi's next appearance(with Kuroda seeing Rumi's name in the news).

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I've seen arguments saying that Vermouth would have never tried to corner a Superintendent like that, but considering that we had a scene(specifically addressing the consequences of those actions) in which Bourbon explained to Vermouth that law enforcers can do nothing without proof(File 898), I disagree with those arguments.

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During Rumi's introduction, we had a scene with Teitan Elementary School's principal Uematsu Ryujiro. This principal has only appeared once in the past, and that was during Kobayashi's introduction(File 154). This principal is full of words of wisdom, but it's worth to note that Gosho is most likely using them as a foreshadowing device. In File 154, Uematsu said "All secrets will be revealed somehow", which directly coincides with Conan's current circumstances in which Ran's suspicion was in full effect(leading up to Desperate revival).

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Similarly to this, in File 966, Uematsu said "People who commit sins must atone... or they will spend the rest of their lives cowering in fear... or die a dog's death". This is most likely meant to coincide with Rumi's circumstance(who was listening to him). Rumi has shown ruthlessness of a killer at least three times now. She said the sentence of a murderer(File 968), She let a murder happen(File 978) and she even used murder experience as a way to save a hostage(File 989). These instances have all been implying that she's a killer, a sinner, and with Uematsu's words, it's implying that a dog's death is awaiting her(since she's neither atoning or cowering in fear). This all once again goes in line with Vermouth's character, who is a sinner that is expected to eventually die for her treasures(Ran and Shinichi).

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The Kohji Case
Spoiler:
Haneda Kohji

Something new that was found out was the fact that Kohji was clenching an unknown object, along with the scissor, that left a mark on the middle of his palm(File 948). This fact seems to imply that there's a missing part to the dying message, and that the unknown object was taken from the crime scene after Kohji's death. Since Kohji is a shogi player, the likelihood that he was holding a shogi piece is high.

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There's however a possibility that an actual clue was left towards it. Rumi was holding onto what looked like the "U" shard. For Gosho to emphasize its shape in a cliffhanger(File 989), it would mean that its shape is important. Considering that it looked like a Shogi piece at first glance, it's possible that the "U" shard was intended to look like it. This would mean that Kohji was alluding to that a Shogi piece was involved in the dying message(most likely as a precaution, in case the culprit took that shogi piece from his hand). Because that shard has a "U", it could be representing the "Uma"(horse) piece. The "Pirate's Spirit" horse in Wakita's introduction could have been foreshadowing the importance of "horse" as well, since the "horse" was used as a parallel to "Rum"(as if it serves the purpose of identifying him)(File 975).

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This leaves us with the dying message "U MASCARA" and the shogi piece "UMA".
If the "U" shard has the purpose of identifying the missing shogi piece, then from a narrative standpoint, it's less likely that Rumi has that shogi piece with her(since there's no point in having a map if you already have the treasure). Some can argue that the shape under the "U" shard, in Rumi's pocket, is the shogi piece, but that can also be the shape of a fragment that broke off from the shard after Rumi fell to the ground(File 989).

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Asaka

A mistake that I did during my Rumi discussion is that I assumed that Hotta Gaito thought Asaka was a woman because she was seen with a hand-mirror. The reality is that he had a separate information about Asaka being a woman(File 953). This increases the likelihood that Asaka is a woman, since it's possibly based on a source, and not on an assumption.

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Something else that was a mistranslation is what Haibara said to Agasa about Kohji's hand-mirror(File 948). Rather than saying "Perhaps it was given to him by someone", she said "Maybe Haneda Kohji inherited it from his mother as well".

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Haibara was specifically relating her sister's experience to Kohji, about inheriting a hand-mirror from their mother. However, since we know that Asaka was seen with a hand-mirror, Haibara's sentence could be giving an actual clue. Rather than Kohji inheriting the mirror from his mother, it's possible that Asaka inherited it instead. Since Asaka was most likely seen with the hand-mirror while using it, it probably belonged to her, and was then lent to Kohji and later used for the dying message(as mentioned in my Kohji case discussion). Since Haibara was relating her story to Kohji's, it's possible that Gosho was using her sentence to hint that Kohji's sister inherited it from their mother.

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In other words, Asaka is actually Kohji's sister who, rather than coming with him to the US as a bodyguard, came with him as a sister that was gonna support him during the chess tournament. Following my previous speculations, this means that when Amanda visited him, Kohji wasn't just offering his trusted bodyguard to help Amanda, but his well-trained sister. If that's the case, then "Asaka" is definitely an alias, since she would've been immediately identified if Kohji had a sister named Asaka.

In my previous discussion about the Kohji case, I stated two possibilities to what happened to Asaka when Amanda was killed. The first one was that Rum didn't clean up a messy room, meaning that Amanda was sneakily poisoned, and because Rum didn't anticipate that Asaka was gonna be in her room, Asaka was able to bypass him. The issue with this is the fact that Amanda and Asaka were seen outside of the room(which is why people heard Amanda call her bodyguard "Asaka", according to the website) and therefore makes it questionable that Rum didn't see her bodyguard. The second one is the fact that Rum didn't verify his kill before killing Kohji(which should be a standard procedure for the BO). The second alternative however was that Rum did clean up a messy room, meaning that Rum did in fact attack both Amanda and Asaka and fed both of them the prototype, which failed to kill Asaka(and lead to her disappearance). This scenario makes the most sense and also explains Rumi's motives.

Akai Tsutomu

According to my previous speculations, Tsutomu interrupted Rum's assassination and fought against him until Rum had to flee. This theory has further been supported by new information that Gosho revealed in the recent Super Digest Book 90+ Q&A. Gosho revealed that Akai Tsutomu is a Jeet Kune Do practitioner.

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This would mean that Tsutomu used Jeet Kune Do to fight against Rum. Since Akai demonstrated the finger jab technique during the flashback, that revealed information about Tsutomu(File 972), it's highly possible that Tsutomu used that against Rum to blind him, which ultimately forced Rum to flee from the crime scene without cleaning it up.

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As mentioned by Akai, this technique blinds your opponent, but it's only temporary. There are cases where the cornea(eye surface) gets scratched by the nail and ultimately gets infected, which could lead to blindness, and in worst case scenario, getting a prosthetic, but that wouldn't exactly be called "some sort of accident"(which Haibara referred his eye loss as in File 908).

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The Kohji Website's uploader

Another translation error that was cleared up was the fact that Agasa never claimed that the uploader of the Kohji case knew "minute detail", but was rather asking Conan how he knew that Kohji resisted his killer(File 948). This means that the uploader isn't necessarily someone that was there in the crime scene, meaning that Tsutomu(or someone he shared info with) and Asaka aren't the only options.

If Asaka isn't the uploader, then it's possible that she is the one that took the shogi piece from Kohji's hand, after surviving the prototype drug(since she wouldn't have any regards for preserving the crime scene in order to share it online). This would mean that Asaka has the "Uma" piece("treasure"), and fake Asaka(Rumi) has the "U" shard("map"), that is hinting to the "Uma" piece.

Since the uploader wasn't necessarily involved in the crime scene, the uploader could most likely be Mary and Sera after all. Since they are clearly interested in Haneda Kohji's case and Asaka(File 952-953), it's definitely possible that Mary got a hold of the crime scene photos from James, in order to get help and conduct her own investigation on Tsutomu's disappearance while in Japan. Since the website keeps going down, Mary would naturally suspect that it's the BO's doing, and therefore worry that they might make their move during Hotta Gaito's case(File 952).

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Iori Muga
Spoiler:
In my Iori discussion, when I was talking about his age, I mentioned that he was at least 13. That was because we have a precedent in which a fake identity can be younger than the real age. Who I'm referring to is Okiya Subaru, who is 27 years old(File 623), while his true identity, Akai Shuichi, was confirmed by Gosho to be 31-32 years old(SDB 90+).

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This means that a character can be 4-5 years older than the number in their name box. Following that logic, Iori might've been 17-18 years old, which would've made him more suitable to carry out assassinations 17 years ago if he's Rum.

There's however another incident, besides Subaru/Akai, that happened in Rum Arc. Satami Saya, from the blogger case(File 918-920), was introduced as a 24-year-old, but at the conclusion of that case, we found out that she was hiding the fact that she was 29 years old(5 years older).

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The fact that we have a case in Rum arc that reveals that a character is 5 years older(the same number as Subaru/Akai) than what they claimed to be makes it highly possible that it is meant to tell us that the age in the name box cannot be fully trusted in Rum arc. The fact that this happens in a case where a Rum plot character is involved(Kuroda) further supports this interpretation. Following the number that Gosho chose in Saya's case, if Iori is Rum, then he was most likely 18 years old when he killed Amanda and Kohji(which isn't that far off from the main red-herring's/Rumi's age).

Gosho has shown that he is aware that the fans are gonna look at the age for every suspect. An example to his awareness is how he made Rumi emphasize her fitting age to be involved in the Kohji case by saying that she's 10 years older than Kobayashi(File 966). For him to use the name box as a way to hide Rum's fitting age makes sense. The fact that Gosho gave Iori a very suspicious and new style of introduction, in which he got a name box with "????", further makes it look like he's intentionally highlighting the name box this way in order to make the reader focus on the name box when the identity is revealed(as if there's something important about it).

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Summary:
Spoiler:
- Wakita Kanenori is the closest subordinate of the boss and the one that drugged Mary. He might be a mentor figure to Gin.

- Wakasa Rumi is Vermouth in disguise. She is trying to pose as Asaka in order to get Conan's help in solving the dying message so that she can find and eliminate the real Asaka. Rumi got a hold of the "U" shard from Kohji's crime scene, which she was planning on showing to Conan when she got the chance.

- Haneda Kohji's dying message involves the "Uma"(horse) shogi piece, which the "U" shard was hinting towards, and it was taken from the crime scene.
- Asaka is Kohji's sister, who inherited the hand-mirror from her mother and lent it to Kohji before he died. She was also fed the SB prototype, along with Amanda, but survived. She was the one that took the shogi piece from the crime scene, before she escaped.
- Tsutomu used Jeet Kune Do against Rum, and used the finger jab technique to blind him, which forced Rum to escape and leave the crime scene messy.
- The Kohji case uploader is most likely Mary and Sera, who got the case info and photos from James Black.

- If Iori is Rum, he's 35 years old and was actually 18 when he killed Amanda and Kohji 17 years ago.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on June 18th, 2017, 6:17 am, edited 21 times in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
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Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Zerozaki4869
Posts: 295

Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Zerozaki4869 » June 7th, 2017, 11:11 am

I have to disagree on several fronts.

a)You're assuming that Vermouth was interested in finding Asaca but then why she was absent/showed no interest in Hotta Gaito case? Instead we see Gin taking note of Kogoro's involvement. Also why would Vermouth assume that the old APTX had the same side effect as the new APTX? To be precise from Gin comment in the first chapter, Gin termed APTX as a brand new poison developed by the R&D, while it was just a copycat product of old APTX which was used as poison. So Gin knew nothing about that old APTX, so it's very unlikely that Vermouth knows about it, also. If Rum attacked Asaka with APTX, then he would have to divulge it before BO, so then BO would have been pretty edgy about Asaka, but we see BO getting edgy about ASACA, so BO is only edgy about the dying message not in Asaka. Else Hotta's case would have been closely monitored also.

b) The glaring mistake you made during comparing the Subaru and Rumi's conflict resolution style was Haibara's reaction during the event. In Subaru's conversation with the culprit ,she felt pressure and Dokkun, but in Rumi's case it was only astonishment.

c) The murdering intent which Rumi showed when she heard the word prosthetic/the phrase containing prosthetic and Haibara felt pressure. But Kuroda was also there keeping a close watch on them. I find it quite intriguing, I think Kuroda is the cause of Dokkun else Haibara would have felt it from Rumi during her conversation with the culprit.

d)In past Haibara was unsure of Pisco's affiliation as his smell was quite weak; Haibara got frightened of Kuroda but thought that he doesn't exude the BO aura and reasons that if he was Rum by now she would have been killed.
The Haibara's line of reasoning shows that she has ruled out Kuroda as Rum, but there is a tinge of uncertainty. Haibara isn't a kid, she has seen much more shit than Ayumi, yet getting afraid of Kuroda is a bit too much. Being unnerved isn't getting afraid though.

e) About the glass shard, I tried to do some calculation on it's possible dimension, a glass shard of that dimension and width(0.5 inch X 0.2 inch X 0.1 inch) can't be that prominent stuff peeping out of the pocket.(I used my GF's hand-mirror as the possible size estimate.)

f) Rumi's personal hatred against Rum isn't explained by this speculation of yours. You speculation is also silent about how Rumi got the glass fragment but not the shogi pieces? It seems like from your speculation that the crime scene looked more like a RPG guild bazzar where people dropped in and took things just as they like.(Rum, Akai-senior, Asaka, Vermouth/Rumi)

g)Rumi's glare even before Kuroda opened his mouth doesn't get explained by your assertion.

h)Rumi can very well be the "Bartender Girl" from 100 files ago who like Whiskey and knows that Conan is the brain behind sleeping Kogoro.(so let's not emphasize on what are personal preferences of the characters and instead look for their interactions and reactions with each other.)

i) For Wakita, I think you're taking huge leaps. I think only three files aren't enough to build suspicion around Wakita. By the way there's no surety that Wakita isn't Rum. Rum knows that Kogoro was involved in the Soul detective case so it's very logical for Rum to sniff around Kogoro.

j) The injury in his left eye seems fake to me, because when Conan asked him he readily tried to open the eye-patch which is very unwise during eye injuries. Wakita wears the eye patch because he wants his eye to be protected from outer contamination but simply throws it away in trying to show the injury to Conan. It suggests that Wakita's injury isn't fresh nor healing. It's either an old scar or injury.

k)So it can be Wakita's ruse to lure out Kogoro by faking an eye injury and thus knowing his knowledge about Rum, not an injury caused by Mary.

l) Wakita can very well be a coach like figure, to Akai-san also. Like the person who inspired Akai-san to practice Jeet-Kun-do.

m) Wakita firstly wanted to escort Kogoro to the latter's next murder case, mind it not any case, only next murder case.Which immediately spooks out Kogoro. It's more like that he wants to keep an eye on Kogoro when Kogoro is solving a murder case, not investigating Kogoro's whereabouts. It can mean many things, let's hear Gin's statement that "If Kogoro is the demon then we'll have to finish him when he sleeps." so Kogoro might be attacked when he's "Sleeping Kogoro." and Wakita wants to stop that.

n) That thing which binds both Mary and Gin can also be Akai-senior. He said the stuff to his wife and then infiltrated BO and became a mentor to Gin and said the same stuff to him. My current speculation is Wakita is probably Akai-senior and the ally whom Ethan Hondou told Kir before his death.

o) Iori fits the Asaka profile without much problems, his stealthy nature, womanly looks, Asaka's index finger being shorter than Asaka's ring finger, belief in his own prowess in hand to hand combat(in the cafe he was ready to take on the armed culprit even in the dark.) is very bodyguard like qualities.I personally think he's a lackey of Rum doing the bidding for Rum

p)I think the main person whom we are missing out on this is Kuroda and Chikara Katsumata. Kuroda is probably a NOC who infiltrated BO,whose mission was to capture Rum. He now is disguising as the Kuroda and Chikara Katsumata is Rum, the weakest horse in this whole race. It's a fight between Kuroda and Chikara.

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