Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Absenta
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Absenta » January 16th, 2017, 11:52 am

I see, so maybe Curacao actually discovered something accidentally about the boss and the BO and that´s why Vermouth willed to carry personally about her...

It´s clear that RUM values intelligence , the fact that Curacao turned to be his/her right hand implies that he/she values really much information. Maybe RUM couldn´t access the information that Curacao had to collect, informatic issues are still limited, if Curacao had a wonder mind similar like a computer makes sense.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » January 16th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Well If you go by M20, can't say they only showed the info about NOCs, And I don't think the poilce HQ would have info about BO, chances are she might be knowing about BO more than Vermouth, Gin etc. (Although not more than Boss and RUM). And why RUM kept her together, That's what RUM will tell, when he gets caught :P
Last edited by Tantei San on January 16th, 2017, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Spimer » January 16th, 2017, 3:22 pm

@TanteiSan:

The colored contact lenses were just part of Curaçao's disguise and had no special effect at all: the key to her special brain apparently was her transparent right eye and those colored cards which she used in a form similar to hypnosis or self-suggestion so as to record the information directly into her brain. Those cards were based on the 5 main types of Curaçao which is why they were made of those specific colors.

And that is why she reacted when she saw that combination of spotlights on the Ferris wheel, because they were the some as her cards' one which triggered the info she was storing on her brain.

Rum must've wanted an agent that didn't need to answer to the usual chain of command and so he/she set their eyes on Curaçao and her special brain. Kir describes her as a information gathering specialists and both she and Bourbon say that she's pretty well-known inside of the BO. Haibara also knew of her but didn't know her name and thought she was Rum, though.

And by the way, would you mind saying where did you see the info about the info about the BO that the police had was stolen? The only case in which police files were stolen was when Vermouth stole the files about Kogoro's cases in order to know about the Araide case and be able to testify in court as Araide but then she returned them.

It was clear from the movie, however, that the PSB knows about the BO but doesn't share that info with the MPD: the PSB and the NPA had gathered that NOC list specifically made of agents infiltrating the BO.

Anyway, Rum is supposed to have authority to the point that Gin listens to the orders he/she sends and doesn't mind admitting he's operating according to them: but then again it could be because retrieving Curaçao was part of Gin's calculations to begin with.

Rum has enough criteria to doubt the authenticity of the mail saying that Kir and Bourbon aren't NOCs but apart from that not much more of his/her personality is shown to us.
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Tantei San
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » January 16th, 2017, 3:38 pm

Spimer wrote:@TanteiSan:

The colored contact lenses were just part of Curaçao's disguise and had no special effect at all: the key to her special brain apparently was her transparent right eye and those colored cards which she used in a form similar to hypnosis or self-suggestion so as to record the information directly into her brain. Those cards were based on the 5 main types of Curaçao which is why they were made of those specific colors.

And that is why she reacted when she saw that combination of spotlights on the Ferris wheel, because they were the some as her cards' one which triggered the info she was storing on her brain.

Rum must've wanted an agent that didn't need to answer to the usual chain of command and so he/she set their eyes on Curaçao and her special brain. Kir describes her as a information gathering specialists and both she and Bourbon say that she's pretty well-known inside of the BO. Haibara also knew of her but didn't know her name and thought she was Rum, though.

And by the way, would you mind saying where did you see the info about the info about the BO that the police had was stolen? The only case in which police files were stolen was when Vermouth stole the files about Kogoro's cases in order to know about the Araide case and be able to testify in court as Araide but then she returned them.

It was clear from the movie, however, that the PSB knows about the BO but doesn't share that info with the MPD: the PSB and the NPA had gathered that NOC list specifically made of agents infiltrating the BO.

Anyway, Rum is supposed to have authority to the point that Gin listens to the orders he/she sends and doesn't mind admitting he's operating according to them: but then again it could be because retrieving Curaçao was part of Gin's calculations to begin with.

Rum has enough criteria to doubt the authenticity of the mail saying that Kir and Bourbon aren't NOCs but apart from that not much more of his/her personality is shown to us.

So, I definitely went way too Hi-tech for BO, Not that they aren't, but in this case I went.
Also, I had a slight memory of some records being stolen, So I guess those were the ones you mentioned. Actually I went through the manga in quite a hush so i didn't read it at that depth. I will remove that part from my previous post then.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 21st, 2017, 7:49 pm

Rum Arc Discussion Series: Wakasa Rumi

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Spoiler:
Wakasa Rumi is the latest "Asaka" suspect that was introduced awhile ago. The biggest discussion, in regards to Asaka, is whether he/she is Rum, but I'll only briefly touch upon that, since I'll mostly focus on Rumi's character and her goal in the story.

As I addressed in my Wakita discussion, Gosho loves to foreshadow a new character's identity by giving out clues about their identity in their introduction case. In Wakasa Rumi's introduction case, there was a handful of implications that suggested different things, but one of those things is that she might be Asaka, the prime suspect in Haneda Kouji's 17-year-old case.


The "Asaka" contradictions

There was an important contradicting matter that was established about Asaka. The first thing we found out was in File 951, in which Conan concluded that Asaka is Rum, based on the fact that Kouji's dying message("U MASCARA") could spell out both "ASACA"(where "CA" is pronounced as "KA") and "RUM"(File 950).

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Since Gosho follows a liquor-code-naming pattern for the BO members(where females have a "wine-based" liquor name while men have a "distilled liquor" name), it would imply that Rum, which is a hard-liquor, is male. Also, the three main descriptions of Rum where about males. However, the second information we got about Asaka was in File 953, in which Hotta Gaito had gotten the information that Asaka was seen with a hand-mirror, commonly used by women, and therefore came to the conclusion that Asaka was female.

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This contradiction looks like Gosho's way of making both gender outcomes of Rum equally possible, however it's far more likely that Rum ends up being a man(unless Gosho is planning on going against his pattern). Gosho always uses Conan as a way to allude to the truth, like when he makes Conan think about the crucial components in a case, or when he follows up the first assumption by mentioning, or thinking about, another possibility(which ends up being the truth). However, Conan also has his fair share of moments where which he concludes with the wrong answer, because he didn't have enough clues. The most prominent, and plot-related, example is his assumption during Kir arc, where he concluded that Hidemi is not Rena and that Rena underwent plastic surgery(File 587).

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Just like with Conan's "Asaca=Rum" assumption, it looks like Conan took the "Asaka is a woman" assumption seriously too, both which are very similar to the Rena example(although there was more evidence backing up the Rena one). "Asaca Rum" interpretation lacks context and there's nothing that indicates that the prime suspect Asaka is the culprit/Rum, other than his/her disappearance(which can easily be explained in stories overall). Asaka being a woman, just because he/she was seen with a hand-mirror, is also a very weak assumption. Since both of these are very rushed and contradicting assumptions, I'll disregard them as "actual clues" on my following speculations.


Rumi's appearances

Going back to Rumi, the first suspicious thing we get in her introduction as a deputy homeroom teacher for class 1-B(File 966) is her name "Wakasa Rumi", which clearly looks like the interpretation that everyone has about Kouji's dying message, "ASACA RUM"(except "S" & "C's" place are switched and "W" & "I" are added). This is obviously not a coincidence, and it looks like it's a fake name that she created with the intention to provoke someone that is, or might be, aware of the dying message. The next suspicious part is Rumi unnecessarily mentioning the age gap between her and Kobayashi.

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This awfully looked like an effort to make her potential involvement in the Kouji case more clearer, since it's a 17-year-old case and she would have been 20 during that time(because she's 37). It was probably Gosho's way of making her look like Asaka, who he lately "established" to be a woman(File 953), and before that, Rum(File 951). However, if we look at it from Rumi's perspective, it could be her way of trying to make someone in the room aware of her fitting age to be involved in that case.

During the rest of Rumi's introduction case(File 966-968), she was intentionally acting clumsy to give out hints in order to help Conan out with his investigation. The fact that she could give out hints indicates that she was intelligent enough to figure out the case beforehand. The reason she was able to get far in the case was because she already visited the basement in the warehouse(where the case started) before bringing the kids with her, and had time to figure things out. That's why Conan found traces of someone having been there before(966).

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This tells us that Rumi is definitely smarter than what she acts like, and the conclusion of that case revealed her true colours, where she took down three robbers with a grin(968). The panel at the end implied that Conan was her goal all along, meaning that all the suspicious things about her was intended for Conan.

What we could conclude from the introduction case is that Rumi is someone that wants Conan to think that she was involved in the Kouji case, and that she helped him find a case to solve.

Rumi's next appearance was in File 978. After realizing that a case might take place in her condominium, she acted clumsy and created a scenario that forced her to go home. this time, it was more clearer that she was only aiming to bring Conan with her, since she tried to create an excuse where she needed him to go home with her. When the detective boys insisted on going too, she mentioned to Kobayashi that she was gonna drop them off one by one.

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The fact that Gosho addressed such an obvious matter, made it seem like Rumi's primary goal was to do something while/after she drops them off one by one. The fact that Conan later realized from a receipt that she had bought extra cups, glasses and plates, before bringing them to her home, indicates that she was ready to cook food for a group, and by extension, dropping them off later on.

By the end of that case(File 980), Rumi is caught off guard by reporters, and against her will, her name "Wakasa Rumi" got revealed to them, which lead to her name stealing the headlines of the news. The fact that she wasn't willing to give out her name implies that she's aware of the consequences of it being out in the open, meaning that she's aware of an outside threat(Kouji's murderer/Rum/BO) that would attempt to bury anything connected to "Kouji's dying message".

What we can conclude from the second case is that she once again helped Conan find a case to solve, but also that she was probably aiming to do something while dropping the kids off. She also seems to be aware of the consequences of revealing her name to the public.


Rumi's identity - Asaka

Since Rumi's behavior suggests that she's interested in the Kouji case, and since she's been hinting to Conan that she was involved in it, it could mean that she's trying to convey that she's Asaka, the only person in the Kouji website(where Conan got his info from) that disappeared from that case. Rumi is skilled at taking down her opponents, which fits with Asaka's profile, since he/she is a bodyguard. The website had shared a photo of Asaka, and although the gender is ambiguous, it definitely matches with Rumi's hair and figure.

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If that is the case, would it mean that Rumi/Asaka is Rum, the culprit in the Kouji case?
There are many implications that tells us that Asaka is not Rum, if Rumi is Asaka. The first implication is Rum's artificial eye. Rumi has shown signs of having two working eyes(based on the fact that she has turned her head both sides to look back, without turning her whole body). The second implication is the fact that she's a woman, when majority of the hints(including Gosho's pattern), indicates that Rum is male.

The third implication is through one of Gosho's favorite foreshadowing styles. As I've addressed in my Wakita discussion, Gosho uses a style of foreshadowing that involves giving out hints that is directed to the fans, rather than the in-universe characters. During Rumi's introduction case, there was a very clear hint that dismissed her as an enemy. It was Genta's Yaiba reference(which is identical to the yaiba reference in Wakita's case) in File 968.

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Yaiba is the hero in the Kamen Yaiba show, so the fact that this foreshadowed Rumi, who was just introduced, to be a "mysterious female-yaiba" indicates that she's a female hero, who is clearly mysterious. The fact she has been helping Conan find cases, as well as helping him solve it indirectly, further implies that she's supposed to be portrayed as a hero. This does seem to imply that she's not a threat, and therefore is not Rum, the BO's second-in-command.

If Rumi is Asaka, why is she trying to make Conan realize that and how does she know that he's intelligent?
One way she could have known about it is if she had read the news about Hotta Gaito's case, and realized that Kogoro got involved in it, similarly to Gin(File 951-953). For Kogoro to get involved, something about Hotta Gaito must have caught his attention, and since soul detective Hotta was teasing that he was gonna revive the Kouji case, there was a glimmer of chance that Kogoro was interested in it. So from then on, Rumi might've done her research on Kogoro's history and arrived at Conan's feats in the "Kid killer" news. The fact that Gosho went the extra mile to remind us of Conan's fame in File 951 makes it more likely that it played a role in Rumi's investigation(including Wakita's, as addressed in my previous discussion).

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With Rumi's portrayed intelligence, it wouldn't be surprising for her to figure out that Conan is the brains behind "sleeping Kogoro", and by extension, the one that could have been interested in the Kouji case.
Another way Rumi could've figured out Conan's true intelligence(which also could have contributed to the first way) is if she is the one who posted info on Kouji's case in that website(File 948). If she's Asaka, then she is among the few people who had a chance to take photos during that incident. Conan had the impression that the one who posted the info wants people to help them solve the case(948).

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This would make sense if it was Rumi/Asaka, who is not the culprit(Rum) in that case, and wants to clear her name, hence why she's asking for help. So, if Rumi was behind the website, then it wouldn't be a stretch if she was able to trace the people that visited the website, and that it eventually lead her to Conan.

In other words, when Rumi found out about Conan's interest in the Kouji case, as well as his intelligence, she decided to slowly approach him in his school and hint to him that she's Asaka and needs help. Meanwhile, she has been bringing cases to him, indirectly, to test his capabilities. This would mean that when she said she was gonna drop the kids off one by one(File 978), she was planning on confronting Conan while they were both alone and on their way to the detective agency. Since the website about Kouji keeps going down, it wouldn't be odd for Asaka to think that the real culprit is still out there and is trying to suppress information about that case, hence why she's aware of the consequences of revealing her name to the public.


Gosho's introduction foreshadowing

Whenever Gosho is about to introduce a character or a plot development, he always likes to foreshadow it in someway. There are many examples to choose from but I'll only reference three.

First one is the development where Heiji figures out Conan's identity(File 117-121), and where a fortuneteller predicted that.

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Second one is the introduction of Sera, who clearly is in love with Shinichi(File 768-770), and where Sonoko mentions that a love rival might appear.

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Third one is a recent development, when Conan was trying to remember who Mary looked like, until Haibara suddenly got in his face(with eye-bags similar to Mary's) and interrupted his thoughts(File 939-941), and it later ended up being Haibara.

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Similarly to these examples, there was a very interesting conversation that took place right before Rumi's introduction that could be a foreshadowing to a completely different outcome for Rumi's character.


Rumi's identity - Vermouth

Right before Kobayashi introduced Rumi to the class(File 966), the detective boys where talking about Kaito kid(who recently disguised as Agasa) and was hoping he would disguise as them.

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Now obviously, there's no way Rumi is Kid(since his purpose is not main-plot related), but there's only one person who's at least as good in disguises as Kid, and who has a reason to get close to the kids, and that's Vermouth.

There are countless of similarities between Rumi and Vermouth. Rumi has portrayed an excellent level of acting, as she's trying to uphold her "clumsy" persona. Vermouth is an American star actress. Rumi seems to be physically trained, which is very similar to Vermouth, who has acrobatic skills. Vermouth is a very intelligent character too, although we haven't seen her portray the same level of deduction as Rumi(which can be blamed on Vermouth having few appearances overall).

What also fits with Vermouth is the yaiba reference(File 968), about a "mysterious female-yaiba". Vermouth is among the most mysterious character in the whole Detective Conan series, and she has been portrayed to be an anti-hero/anti-villain. Because of her special attachment to the protagonist, she has secretly been helping him out of harms way through out the story, just like how Rumi has been helping him through out her intro case. Since Vermouth knows about Conan's true identity, Rumi would obviously be aware of Conan's intelligence, if she was Vermouth-in-disguise.

There's also one other aspect of Rumi's personality that is awfully identical to Vermouth's. In Rumi's second appearance(File 978), she overheard a couple's quarrel, and ended up hearing the guy plotting to kill his girlfriend. Rather than warning the girlfriend(who is leaving right after the quarrel), she smiled and ultimately let it happen.

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This is a unique and very "evil-like" trait for a "Yaiba-like" character to have. This very complexity defines Vermouth, since she is a gray character who has shown very ruthless and kind sides.

If Rumi is Vermouth, why didn't Haibara sense her presence?
Haibara has always feared Vermouth, and since she has this unique ability to, almost literally, sniff out members of the BO, she was particularly good at picking up her presence(whether she was aware of it being her or not). This question can be answered with something that Gosho presented regarding Haibara's sensing abilities in the Bourbon arc.
During the Cherry-blossom-viewing case(File 850-852), Vermouth was disguised as a pregnant lady, but Haibara didn't feel/smell her presence. When Conan asked Haibara about it, she said that she didn't feel it because she didn't expect it to be possible that the BO would approach her now that she's considered dead(File 856).

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This does seem to infer that her sensing abilities are mentally driven. Since she has let her guard down completely, ever since the fake death, and stopped fearing for her life, it looks like it has affected her ability, so there shouldn't be a reason for her to sense BO's presence in Rumi(Vermouth), or Rum for that matter, if she couldn't sense it back then.

If Rumi is Vermouth, it would mean that she is suspicious of Conan's knowledge regarding the Kouji case, for the same reason that Gin is suspicious of Kogoro's(as addressed in my Wakita discussion), because he was involved in Hotta Gaito's case(File 951-953). For that reason, she might've been trying to provoke Conan, by making herself look like the prime suspect of that case, Asaka, in order to confirm her suspicion. Vermouth has gone through crazy stunts and disguises in the past, just to investigate something, assassinate someone or simply confirm her suspicions.

One question remains,... what was her goal when she invited the kids, just so that she could drop them off one by one?(978)
Going to that length, just so Conan could solve a case, wouldn't be unheard of, however, since Gosho addressed what her plans was after inviting them, it leaves room for an actual purpose to her plans. Our biggest clue lies in her latest appearance, the Betrayal series(File 954-957).

During that case, Vermouth was disguised as Azusa, and there was one thing that bothered her through out that case, Okiya Subaru's identity. When she asked Bourbon about him, she got important keywords to go with, right after Bourbon told her about his name and occupation(File 955):
"He lives next to the house of someone named professor Agasa".
After that, Vermouth picked up on Bourbon's "dagger-stares" at Subaru, which made him look even more suspicious.

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This would immediately explain why Rumi was planning on doing something while dropping the kids off one by one. Her goal was most likely to create an inconspicuous excuse to pry on Agasa's neighbor, Okiya Subaru, while she drops off Haibara at the professor's house, or to get information through the other naive kids, after dropping off Conan and Haibara. She was also showing interest in Agasa's gadgets in File 966.

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This could have been Rumi's attempt to lead the kids on so that they would want to introduce Agasa to her, which in turn would speed up her investigation on Subaru, his neighbor. It's also possible that the "whisky" reference in File 967 was one of Gosho's foreshadowings/hints(directed to the fans) that Rumi's goal is someone with a "Whisky" code-name.

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The "Whisky-code-named" agents that are relevant in this arc are three people: Bourbon, Scotch & Rye. Bourbon is Vermouth's current partner, and Scotch is dead. That leaves us with the former member of the BO, Rye, who is Okiya Subaru. This could ultimately mean that Subaru was her primary goal, while "Conan's Kouji investigation" was secondary. The reason to why she avoided mentioning her name to the reporters(980) is because if the BO saw her name in the news and wanted to take action(since her name looks like the dying message), Vermouth would be forced to give them the heads-up and create an excuse to why she disguised herself as Rumi(in order to avoid endangering Conan), which would ultimately ruin her plan to investigate Subaru.


Summary:
- Rumi wants Conan to think that she was involved in the Kouji case, and she is aware of an outside threat that wants to bury it.
- Rumi could be the bodyguard Asaka, but that means that Asaka is not the culprit/Rum. She has been testing Conan and wants his help in order to solve Kouji's case and clear her name.
- Rumi could be Vermouth, who is acting as if she is "Asaka" in order to provoke Conan and confirm her suspicion that he's investigating Kouji's case. Her primary goal is to investigate Okiya Subaru.
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on January 24th, 2017, 5:59 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
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Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby alphajjc » January 21st, 2017, 11:32 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:Rum Arc Discussion Series: Wakasa Rumi

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Spoiler:
Wakasa Rumi is the latest "Asaka" suspect that was introduced awhile ago. The biggest discussion, in regards to Asaka, is whether he/she is Rum, but I'll only briefly touch upon that, since I'll mostly focus on Rumi's character and her goal in the story.

As I addressed in my Wakita discussion, Gosho loves to foreshadow a new character's identity by giving out clues about their identity in their introduction case. In Wakasa Rumi's introduction case, there was a handful of implications that suggested different things, but one of those things is that she might be Asaka, the prime suspect in Haneda Kouji's 17-year-old case.


The "Asaka" contradictions

The are was an important contradicting matter that was established about Asaka. The first thing we found out was in File 951, in which Conan concluded that Asaka is Rum, based on the fact that Kouji's dying message("U MASCARA") could spell out both "ASACA"(where "CA" is pronounced as "KA") and "RUM"(File 950).

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Since Gosho follows a liquor-code-naming pattern for the BO members(where females have a "wine-based" liquor name while men have a "distilled liquor" name), it would imply that Rum, which is a hard-liquor, is male. Also, the three main descriptions of Rum where about males. However, the second information we got about Asaka was in File 953, in which Hotta Gaito had gotten the information that Asaka was seen with a hand-mirror, commonly used by women, and therefore came to the conclusion that Asaka was female.

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This contradiction looks like Gosho's way of making both gender outcomes of Rum equally possible, however it's far more likely that Rum ends up being a man(unless Gosho is planning on going against his pattern). Gosho always uses Conan as way to allude to the truth, like when he makes Conan think about the crucial components in a case, or when he follows up his first assumption by mentioning, or thinking about, another possibility(which ends up being the truth). However, Conan also has his fair share of moments where which he concludes with the wrong answer, because he didn't have enough clues. The most prominent, and plot-related, example is his assumption during Kir arc, where he concluded that Hidemi is not Rena and that Rena underwent plastic surgery(File 587).

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Just like with Conan's "Asaca=Rum" assumption, it looks like Conan took the "Asaka is a woman" assumption seriously too, both which are very similar to the Rena example(although there was more evidence backing up the Rena one). "Asaca Rum" interpretation lacks context and there's nothing that indicates that the prime suspect Asaka is the culprit/Rum, other than his/her disappearance(which can easily be explained in stories overall). Asaka being a woman, just because he/she was seen with a hand-mirror, is also a very weak assumption. Since both of these are very rushed and contradicting assumptions, I'll disregard them as "actual clues" on my following speculations.


Rumi's appearances

Going back to Rumi, the first suspicious thing we get in her introduction as a deputy homeroom teacher for class 1-B(File 966) is her name "Wakasa Rumi", which clearly looks like the interpretation that everyone has about Kouji's dying message, "ASACA RUM"(except "S" & "C's" place are switched and "W" & "I" are added). This is obviously not a coincidence, and it looks like it's a fake name that she created with the intention to provoke someone that is, or might be, aware of the dying message. The next suspicious part is Rumi unnecessarily mentioning the age gap between her and Kobayashi.

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This awfully looked like an effort to make her potential involvement in the Kouji case more clearer, since it's a 17-year-old case and she would have been 20 during that time(because she's 37). It was probably Gosho's way of making her look like Asaka, who he lately "established" to be a woman(File 953), and before that, Rum(File 951). However, if we look at it from Rumi's perspective, it could be her way of trying to make someone in the room aware of her fitting age to be involved in that case.

During the rest of Rumi's introduction case(File 966-968), she was intentionally acting clumsy to give out hints in order to help Conan out with his investigation. The fact that she could give out hints indicates that she was intelligent enough to figure out the case beforehand. The reason she was able to get far in the case was because she already visited the basement in the warehouse(where the case started) before bringing the kids with her, and had time to figure things out. That's why Conan found traces of someone having been there before(966).

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This tells us that Rumi is definitely smarter than what she acts like, and the conclusion of that case revealed her true colours, where she took down three robbers with a grin(968). The panel at the end implied that Conan was her goal all along, meaning that all the suspicious things about her was intended for Conan.

What we could conclude from the introduction case is that Rumi is someone that wants Conan to think that she was involved in the Kouji case, and that she helped him find a case to solve.

Rumi's next appearance was in File 978. After realizing that a case might take place in her condominium, she acted clumsy and created a scenario that forced her to go home. this time, it was more clearer that she was only aiming to bring Conan with her, since she tried to create an excuse where she needed him to go home with her. When the detective boys insisted on going too, she mentioned to Kobayashi that she was gonna drop them off one by one.

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The fact Gosho addressed such an obvious matter, made it seem like Rumi's primary goal was to do something while/after she drops them off one by one. The fact that Conan later realized from a receipt that she had bought extra cups, glasses and plates, before bringing them to her home, indicates that she was ready to cook food for a group, and by extension, dropping them off later on.

By the end of that case(File 980), Rumi is caught off guard by reporters, and against her will, her name "Wakasa Rumi" got revealed to them, which lead to her name stealing the headlines of the news. The fact that she wasn't willing to give out her name implies that she's aware of the consequences of it being out in the open, meaning that she's aware of an outside threat(Kouji's murderer/Rum/BO) that would attempt to bury anything connected to "Kouji's dying message".

What we can conclude from the second case is that she once again helped Conan find a case to solve, but also that she was probably aiming to do something while dropping the kids off. She also seems to be aware of the consequences of revealing her name to the public.


Rumi's identity - Asaka

Since Rumi's behavior suggests that she's interested in the Kouji case, and since she's been hinting to Conan that she was involved in it, it could mean that she's trying to convey that she's Asaka, the only person in the Kouji website(where Conan got his info from) that disappeared from that case. Rumi is skilled at taking down her opponents, which fits with Asaka's profile, since he/she is a bodyguard. The website had shared a photo of Asaka, and although the gender is ambiguous, it definitely matches with Rumi's hair and figure.

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If that is the case, would it mean that Rumi/Asaka is Rum, the culprit in the Kouji case?
There are many implications that tells us that Asaka is not Rum, if Rumi is Asaka. The first implication is Rum's artificial eye. Rumi has shown signs of having two working eyes(based on the fact that she has turned her head both sides to look back, without turning her whole body). The second implication is the fact that she's a woman, when majority of the hints(including Gosho's pattern), indicates that Rum is male.

The third implication is through one of Gosho's favorite foreshadowing styles. As I've addressed in my Wakita discussion, Gosho uses a style of foreshadowing that involves giving out hints that is directed to the fans, rather than the in-universe characters. During Rumi's introduction case, there was a very clear hint that dismissed her as an enemy. It was Genta's Yaiba reference(which is identical to the yaiba reference in Wakita's case) in File 968.

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Yaiba is the hero in the Kamen Yaiba show, so the fact that this foreshadowed Rumi, who was just introduced, to be a "mysterious female-yaiba" indicates that she's a female hero, who is clearly mysterious. The fact she has been helping Conan find cases, as well as helping him solve it indirectly, further implies that she's supposed to be portrayed as a hero. This does seem to imply that she's not a threat, and therefore is not Rum, the BO's second-in-command.

If Rumi is Asaka, why is she trying to make Conan realize that and how does she know that he's intelligent?
One way she could have known about it is if she had read the news about Hotta Gaito's case, and realized that Kogoro got involved in it, similarly to Gin(File 951-953). For Kogoro to get involved, something about Hotta Gaito must have caught his attention, and since soul detective Hotta was teasing that he was gonna revive the Kouji case, there was a glimmer of chance that Kogoro was interested in it. So from then on, Rumi might've done her research on Kogoro's history and arrived at Conan's feats in the "Kid killer" news. The fact that Gosho went the extra mile to remind us of Conan's fame in File 951 makes it more likely that it played a role in Rumi's investigation(including Wakita's, as addressed in my previous discussion).

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With Rumi's portrayed intelligence, it wouldn't be surprising for her to figure out that Conan is the brains behind "sleeping Kogoro", and by extension, the one that could have been interested in the Kouji case.
Another way Rumi could've figured out Conan's true intelligence(which also could have contributed to the first way) is if she is the one who posted info on Kouji's case in that website(File 948). If she's Asaka, then she is among the few people who had a chance to take photos during that incident. Conan had the impression that the one who posted the info wants people to help them solve the case(948).

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This would make sense if it was Rumi/Asaka, who is not the culprit(Rum) in that case, and wants to clear her name, hence why she's asking for help. So, if Rumi was behind the website, then it wouldn't be a stretch if she was able to trace the people that visited the website, and that it eventually lead her to Conan.

In other words, when Rumi found out about Conan's interest in the Kouji case, as well as his intelligence, she decided to slowly approach him in his school and hint to him that she's Asaka and needs help. Meanwhile, she has been bringing cases to him, indirectly, to test his capabilities. This would mean that when she said she was gonna drop the kids off one by one(File 978), she was planning on confronting Conan while they were both alone and on their way to the detective agency. Since the website about Kouji keeps going down, it wouldn't be odd for Asaka to think that the real culprit is still out there and is trying suppress information about that case, hence why was she's aware of the consequences of revealing her name to the public.


Gosho's introduction foreshadowing

Whenever Gosho is about to introduce a character or a plot development, he always likes to foreshadow it in someway. There are many examples to choose from but I'll only reference three.

First one is the development where Heiji figures out Conan's identity(File 117-121), and where a fortuneteller predicted that.

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Second one is the introduction of Sera, who clearly is in love with Shinichi(File 768-770), and where Sonoko mentions that a love rival might appear.

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Third one is a recent development, when Conan was trying to remember who Mary looked like, until Haibara suddenly got in his face(with eye-bags similar to Mary's) and interrupted his thoughts(File 939-941), and it later ended up being Haibara.

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Similarly to these examples, there was a very interesting conversation that took place right before Rumi's introduction that could be a foreshadowing to a completely different outcome for Rumi's character.


Rumi's identity - Vermouth

Right before Kobayashi introduced Rumi to the class(File 966), the detective boys where talking about Kaito kid(who recently disguised as Agasa) and was hoping he would disguise as them.

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Now obviously, there's no way Rumi is Kid(since his purpose is not main-plot related), but there's only one person who's at least as good in disguises as Kid, and who has a reason to get close to the kids, and that's Vermouth.

There are countless of similarities between Rumi and Vermouth. Rumi has portrayed an excellent level of acting, as she's trying to uphold her "clumsy" persona. Vermouth is an American star actress. Rumi seems to be physically trained, which is very similar to Vermouth, who has acrobatic skills. Vermouth is a very intelligent character too, although we haven't seen her portray the same level of deduction as Rumi(which can be blamed on Vermouth having few appearances overall).

What also fits with Vermouth is the yaiba reference(File 968), about a "mysterious female-yaiba". Vermouth is among the most mysterious character in the whole Detective Conan series, and she has been portrayed to be an anti-hero/anti-villain. Because of her special attachment to the protagonist, she has secretly been helping him out of harms way through out the story, just like how Rumi has been helping him through out her intro case. Since Vermouth knows about Conan's true identity, Rumi would obviously be aware of Conan's intelligence, if she was Vermouth-in-disguise.

There's also one other aspect of Rumi's personality that is awfully identical to Vermouth's. In Rumi's second appearance(File 978), she overheard a couple's quarrel, and ended up hearing the guy plotting to kill his girlfriend. Rather than warning the girlfriend(who is leaving right after the quarrel), she smiled and ultimately let it happen.

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This is a unique and very "evil-like" trait for a "Yaiba-like" character to have. This very complexity defines Vermouth, since she is a gray character who has shown very ruthless and kind sides.

If Rumi is Vermouth, why didn't Haibara sense her presence?
Haibara has always feared Vermouth, and since she has this unique ability to, almost literally, sniff out members of the BO, she was particularly good at picking up her presence(whether she was aware of it being her or not). This question can be answered with something that Gosho presented regarding Haibara's sensing abilities in the Bourbon arc.
During the Cherry-blossom-viewing case(File 850-852), Vermouth was disguised as a pregnant lady, but Haibara didn't feel/smell her presence. When Conan asked Haibara about it, she said that she didn't feel it because she didn't expect it to be possible that the BO would approach her now that she's considered dead(File 853).

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This does seem to infer that her sensing abilities are mentally driven. Since she has let her guard down completely, ever since the fake death, and stopped fearing for her life, it looks like it has affected her ability, so there shouldn't be a reason for her to sense BO's presence in Rumi(Vermouth), or Rum for that matter, if she couldn't sense it back then.

If Rumi is Vermouth, it would mean that she is suspicious of Conan's knowledge regarding the Kouji case, for the same reason that Gin is suspicious of Kogoro's(as addressed in my Wakita discussion), because he was involved in Hotta Gaito's case(File 951-953). For that reason, she might've been trying to provoke Conan, by making herself look like the prime suspect of that case, Asaka, in order to confirm her suspicion. Vermouth has gone through crazy stunts and disguises in the past, just to investigate something, assassinate someone or simply confirm her suspicions.

One question remains,... what was her goal when she invited the kids, just so that she could drop them off one by one?(978)
Going to that length, just so Conan could solve a case, wouldn't be unheard of, however, since Gosho addressed what her plans was after inviting them, it leaves room for an actual purpose to her plans. Our biggest clue lies in her latest appearance, the Betrayal series(File 954-957).

During that case, Vermouth was disguised as Azusa, and there was one thing that bothered her through out that case, Okiya Subaru's identity. When she asked Bourbon about him, she got important keywords to go with, right after Bourbon told her about his name and occupation(File 955):
"He lives next to the house of someone named professor Agasa".
After that, Vermouth picked up on Bourbon's "dagger-stares" at Subaru, which made him look even more suspicious.

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This would immediately explain why Rumi was planning on doing something while dropping the kids off one by one. Her goal was most likely to create an inconspicuous excuse to pry on Agasa's neighbor, Okiya Subaru, while she drops off Haibara at the professor's house, or to get information through the other naive kids, after dropping off Conan and Haibara. She was also showing interest in Agasa's gadgets in File 966.

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This could have been Rumi's attempt to lead the kids on so that they would want to introduce Agasa to her, which in turn would speed up her investigation on Subaru, his neighbor. It's also possible that the "whisky" reference in File 967 was one of Gosho's foreshadowings/hints(directed to the fans) that Rumi's goal is someone with a "Whisky" code-name.

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The "Whisky-code-named" agents that are relevant in this arc are three people: Bourbon, Scotch & Rye. Bourbon is Vermouth's current partner, and Scotch is dead. That leaves us with the former member of the BO, Rye, who is Okiya Subaru. This could ultimately mean that Subaru was her primary goal, while "Conan's Kouji investigation" was secondary. The reason to why she avoided mentioning her name to the reporters(980) is because if the BO saw her name in the news and wanted to take action(since her name looks like the dying message), Vermouth would be forced to give them the heads-up and create an excuse to why she disguised herself as Rumi(in order to avoid endangering Conan), which would ultimately ruin her plan to investigate Subaru.


Summary:
- Rumi wants Conan to think that she was involved in the Kouji case, and she is aware of an outside threat that wants to bury the Kouji case.
- Rumi could be the bodyguard Asaka, but that means that Asaka is not the culprit/Rum. She has been testing Conan and wants his help in order to solve Kouji's case and clear her name.
- Rumi could be Vermouth, who is acting as if she is "Asaka" in order to provoke Conan and confirm her suspicion that he's investigating Kouji. Her primary goal is to investigate Okiya Subaru.


Wow these are some excellent theories you have had from the first page.

We are nearing the 1000 mark for Detective Conan chapters so i can see the identity of Rum being officially revealed then to us. I remember the 500th chapter was the first appearance we had of Rena Mizunashi who we found out very shortly after was Kir.

I think Gosho realizes we are getting tired of having all these BO spies so hopefully this time its an actual enemy.

What i just noticed typing this is Gosho gave us two suspects,one that is the "strong man" and another that is "feminine looking". So i expect the next suspect to be the "old man" and this person will end up being Rum.

Unless there are more suspects but Gosho usually does the 3 suspect thing.

oh and i almost forgot to say. I think Rum will be based on "Moran" who was Professor Moriarty's second hand/right hand man. So i think we should read up on Moran's characteristics to get an idea.
k11chi
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » January 22nd, 2017, 12:28 am

Aside from Gin I don't think we're ever going to have a simple "villain" character in DC. Just like because they're spies doesn't make them simple "good" characters either. When Rum will be revealed he will probably have some kind of history which relates to what he thinks and why he does those things. But we'll learn more of that once the time comes.
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 22nd, 2017, 4:29 am

alphajjc wrote:Wow these are some excellent theories you have had from the first page.

I think Gosho realizes we are getting tired of having all these BO spies so hopefully this time its an actual enemy
What i just noticed typing this is Gosho gave us two suspects,one that is the "strong man" and another that is "feminine looking". So i expect the next suspect to be the "old man" and this person will end up being Rum.

Unless there are more suspects but Gosho usually does the 3 suspect thing.

oh and i almost forgot to say. I think Rum will be based on "Moran" who was Professor Moriarty's second hand/right hand man. So i think we should read up on Moran's characteristics to get an idea.

Thanks.

Actually, he delivered all the characteristics of Rum as each individual character:

Kuroda - Strong man (seems to at least have a good build)

Wakita - Old man (He's the oldest suspect so far)

Iori - effeminate man (He's definitely a Rum suspect, and Momiji won't hinder that)

Gosho will most likely implement some aspects of Moran into him, however, I don't think he will go all the way to the point that it's obvious.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Serinox
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » January 22nd, 2017, 5:41 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:Iori - effeminate man (He's definitely a Rum suspect, and Momiji won't hinder that)

Is there any other reason to consider him one aside from "He was introduced after 898 and it is not impossible"? Kuroda and Wakita also fulfill the feminine aspect to a certain extend after all.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 22nd, 2017, 7:47 am

Serinox wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:Iori - effeminate man (He's definitely a Rum suspect, and Momiji won't hinder that)

Is there any other reason to consider him one aside from "He was introduced after 898 and it is not impossible"? Kuroda and Wakita also fulfill the feminine aspect to a certain extend after all.

Gosho doesn't develop characters to the extent that he did with Iori(his sneaky nature, foreign knowledge etc.) without explaining them, unless they're important. His character design is too unique and fits the effeminate part easily. Unless Iori's character will be dived into in M21(which I don't see happening at the moment), he could potentially play a role in the plot.

What aspects in them do you consider feminine "to a certain extend"?
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Kor
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Kor » January 22nd, 2017, 8:23 am

Would be hilarious if Rum just so happens to be the butler of that one girl who has a crush on Heiji. And by hilarious, I mean sad. Like, talk about a coincidence of astronomical proportions...

(Which nowadays I guess doesn't mean much cause Gosho hasn't shied from major coincidences before, but still...)

MeiTanteixX wrote:What aspects in them do you consider feminine "to a certain extend"?


Sorry to intervene, but "extent", not "extend".
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 22nd, 2017, 9:04 am

Kor wrote:Would be hilarious if Rum just so happens to be the butler of that one girl who has a crush on Heiji. And by hilarious, I mean sad. Like, talk about a coincidence of astronomical proportions...

He doesn't have to be Rum, just someone treated as a Rum candidate.
I hope he isn't though.
Kor wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:What aspects in them do you consider feminine "to a certain extend"?


Sorry to intervene, but "extent", not "extend".

I know, but I was quoting Serinox, hence the quotation marks.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Tantei San
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It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Tantei San » January 22nd, 2017, 9:56 am

MeiTanteixX gr8 report on Wakita and Rumi.
I have some points that I would like to highlight.

Spoiler:
1. The Age of Rumi:
With a age of 37 and the fact that the Kohji Haneda case happened 17 years ago, makes her 20 as you pointed out. I think she would be the Rum, because at a age of 20 (which is quite young for being in a crime syndicate), It is possible she could be the one to Screw up as Gin had said.
2. Rumi needs Conan's Help:
Pretty much possible if she is not a BO member and possibly Kohji's GF and needs Akai's help, who was last seen with Conan. And was searching for him because well if Kohji's non blood brother is Shukichi, who is the brother of Akai and an FBI agent, it makes all sense. Also, The theory you said that she might be the uploader of Kohji's case online, but, if she was tracing one of the viewer, wouldn't it be Agasa and not Conan, because clearly Conan was checking the website at Agasa's place.
3. Rumi is vermouth:
First of all what?
Why would Vermouth go all the way to become RUMI WAKASA, I mean why? Also choosing the name of Rumi Wakasa. She could have created another name. I mean yes, she created this to lure anyone related to the case, but if i am not wrong, all those related to it were killed already, Amanda Hughes, Tsutomu Akai as well as Kohji Haneda. Is it possible that there someone also in there class related to BO, probably another shrunken kid? Who knows! Besides going to earlier volumes, there was a Honda who was also a BO member who looked like a kid, probably.
4. Haibara not getting Vermouth's presence:
I guess since it has starting to fade, not only the fact she couldn't guess that the pregnant lady was vermouth in disguise. I think she would never had thought that a BO member would ever come to her school. I mean its the most safe place for her to place and she feels quite comfortable there.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby Serinox » January 22nd, 2017, 11:13 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Serinox wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:Iori - effeminate man (He's definitely a Rum suspect, and Momiji won't hinder that)

Is there any other reason to consider him one aside from "He was introduced after 898 and it is not impossible"? Kuroda and Wakita also fulfill the feminine aspect to a certain extend after all.

Gosho doesn't develop characters to the extent that he did with Iori(his sneaky nature, foreign knowledge etc.) without explaining them, unless they're important. His character design is too unique and fits the effeminate part easily. Unless Iori's character will be dived into in M21(which I don't see happening at the moment), he could potentially play a role in the plot.

What aspects in them do you consider feminine "to a certain extend"?

I'm pretty sure that we will see Iori in M21. Though, even if it doesn't happen, I doubt he will have relevance beyond appearing in the Momiji subplot in the manga. His sneaky nature can be explained through his profession and his knowledge is most likely just convenient for Gosho, just like Ran knowing lots about Chinese history in the Red Horse case was convenient for him and then some editor pointed out that it is kind of a strange for a high school girl to know so much about the topic.

Also, Gosho has already introduced Rumi as the Rum suspect with the feminine aspect before Iori (yes, I know, "feminine man" and all of that, but still, she is clearly introduced as a Rum suspect and that's the aspect she fulfills the most).

Kuroda drinks red tea, commonly associated to be a women's drink (hence Kansuke's comment about how a man with his scary face prefers female tea) and Wakita displayed quite the amount of girly expression's/"fan girling" during his introduction, though we kinda have to wait and see for more appearances to know how much of that was faked.
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Postby k11chi » January 22nd, 2017, 11:24 am

Now you're letting your imaginations run wild too much. She was clearly introduced as an Ooka family member who live in a nice place with a butler or two, and is a high school student who wants to marry Heiji. She's a young girl while Rum is supposed to be old. I don't think that sounds like a Rum suspect.
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