Fit the pieces together

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 23rd, 2017, 1:40 pm

Tantei San wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:...however, even if it was James, it doesn't necessarily mean that he told him about Mary of course.


Certainly possible, but, if not, then what was he contacting Shuichi/Subaru for?

Ultimately, I'm just waiting for a flashback to this scene, in which the identities of the people who called Shuichi/Subaru and Masumi are finally revealed, after nearly 200 Files and over 5 years.

Do you think Gosho will create a flashback to Bourbon's unveiling After 5 years ??

He revealed in File 955 what Bourbon's promise to Vermouth was(which was first mentioned in that very same file), so he could probably fit that flashback/explanation in when he reveals the whole operation that Mary and Sera has been undergoing.
As for Subaru's conversation, it's possible that he was told something important, and Gosho eventually reveals that too(which goes with what DCUniverseAficionado speculated).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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RucyL
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby RucyL » January 24th, 2017, 4:28 pm

RucyL wrote:Rumi - 3 options. 1 Rational option: Secret police agent (or ex-agent)
2 Irrational option: Something in my mind keeps saying "She's Vermouth on disguise". But, Haibara would have noticed it, right? right?!?
3 Less irrational option: A minor BO member.
Either way, investigating something related to Haneda's murder.

Mark - Somehow related to Kohji Haneda. Maybe the one who uploads the info?

Well, I posted this when nothing was known about "Mark", so now we know he is the butler on the Ooka girl, I think it's very improbable for him to be related to Haneda. So maybe the one who uploads the info is Rumi?
"A true lady leaves no puzzle unsolved."
DCUniverseAficionado
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Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 25th, 2017, 3:11 am

Tantei San wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:...however, even if it was James, it doesn't necessarily mean that he told him about Mary of course.


Certainly possible, but, if not, then what was he contacting Shuichi/Subaru for?

Ultimately, I'm just waiting for a flashback to this scene, in which the identities of the people who called Shuichi/Subaru and Masumi are finally revealed, after nearly 200 Files and over 5 years.

Do you think Gosho will create a flashback to Bourbon's unveiling After 5 years ??


Even if it's just a few panels, I'll take it, but I'm not, for instance, expecting 2 pages of flashback to Detectives' Nocturne (796–800/671–674).

DC has many dangling plot threads, so why not?

PhantomWriter wrote:...he doesn't generally do longer flashbacks about the plot, just snippets that allow us to put the pieces together or to hint at something (such as the whole affair with Scotch and Rei and Elena's interaction). When he does, Shinichi and Ran are a major part of it (the Golden Apple case in New York).


Yeah, I can settle for just a few panels. Think of a flashback to File 800/Episode 674 that's akin to the Clash of Red and Black flashback from File 898/Episode 783.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Valentin
Posts: 81

Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Valentin » January 25th, 2017, 7:13 pm

As much as I keep reading that Tsutomu Akai might be wearing a disguise, I keep wondering how that would be supposed to play out.

Like Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou, Tsutomu Akai seems to have been designed according to the fomula son + facial hair. Since Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou basically represent perfected versions of their children, Tsutomu Akai will presumably be ahead of his as well. Considering Shuuichi Akai and Shuukichi Haneda, I can’t imagine him being significantly less intelligent than Yuusaku Kudou; though Shuuichi’s fake death was ultimately orchestrated by Conan, I don’t think that the difference between them is too big.

That’s why I have problems with the notion of Tsutomu Akai wearing a disguise. Even if his intellect might not quite compare to Yuusaku Kudou’s, being one of the smartest characters and having the ability to change his appearance would elevate him to a combination of Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou; whether or not he’s a total match in either discipline, such a hybrid would be too superior for me to fancy.

But if someone else provides the costumes, who would that be? Both Vermouth and Yukiko Kudou seem out of the question. And if it’s a character not yet introduced, who would that be?

While I agree that Tsutomu Akai is still alive, I can’t think of a reasonable way to include dress-ups in that context. Maybe I’m ignoring a possibility?
Themaninarmor
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Themaninarmor » January 26th, 2017, 8:15 am

Valentin wrote:As much as I keep reading that Tsutomu Akai might be wearing a disguise, I keep wondering how that would be supposed to play out.

Like Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou, Tsutomu Akai seems to have been designed according to the fomula son + facial hair. Since Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou basically represent perfected versions of their children, Tsutomu Akai will presumably be ahead of his as well. Considering Shuuichi Akai and Shuukichi Haneda, I can’t imagine him being significantly less intelligent than Yuusaku Kudou; though Shuuichi’s fake death was ultimately orchestrated by Conan, I don’t think that the difference between them is too big.

That’s why I have problems with the notion of Tsutomu Akai wearing a disguise. Even if his intellect might not quite compare to Yuusaku Kudou’s, being one of the smartest characters and having the ability to change his appearance would elevate him to a combination of Touichi Kuroba and Yuusaku Kudou; whether or not he’s a total match in either discipline, such a hybrid would be too superior for me to fancy.

But if someone else provides the costumes, who would that be? Both Vermouth and Yukiko Kudou seem out of the question. And if it’s a character not yet introduced, who would that be?

While I agree that Tsutomu Akai is still alive, I can’t think of a reasonable way to include dress-ups in that context. Maybe I’m ignoring a possibility?


If i'm not mistaken....until now only 5 people could make disguise perfectly... Toichi and KID, yukiko and vermouth. I won't tell you the last person but this person learn by self taught (It is not toichi's wife...). so i think it is possible if there are another one like that person...
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k11chi
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby k11chi » January 26th, 2017, 8:58 am

There's literally no reason to assume that Tsutomu is some kind of genius mastermind right now. Akai family does not have the luxury of disguising until Dead Shuichi met Yukiko.
Image
PhantomWriter
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby PhantomWriter » January 26th, 2017, 11:20 pm

k11chi wrote:There's literally no reason to assume that Tsutomu is some kind of genius mastermind right now. Akai family does not have the luxury of disguising until Dead Shuichi met Yukiko.


Agreed. Even assuming that the 'no body found' means Tsutomu's alive, he'd probably do something closer to what would be realistic for a person- fake name, change in clothes, getting out of the region he was in, setting up ties to a new area, making a fake life story, etc. Those are pretty basic things anyone with average or above average intelligence could do in such a situation.

If he went into witness protection or an equivalent, that would also help with a lot of his paperwork/legal identity. However, witness protection can include family, so that idea would raise its own questions. Unless he used forged papers, but forged documents of certain countries, passports, etc. can get very expensive. Mary would notice that if they had a joint account of some kind.

However, assuming he's alive and his body's not rotting in a ditch somewhere, he kept a very low profile after encountering the Org. despite the whole "infected with the disease of curiosity" thing.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -Sherlock Holmes
DCUniverseAficionado
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 27th, 2017, 11:29 am

PhantomWriter wrote:...he kept a very low profile after encountering the Org. despite the whole "infected with the disease of curiosity" thing.


Well, if there's anything that's going to be a "remedy" to his "disease," it's the BO trying to off him.

And remember—this is a family with "Need to know basis"/"We won't tell you unless you figure things out on your own and prove you're as smart as we are" written all over them... such things are the MO of intelligent people in DC, even to a degree that some see as defying basic common sense (i.e., lack of communication).
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on January 27th, 2017, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Tantei San
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It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Tantei San » January 27th, 2017, 3:16 pm

Akai family is not the type of family to be disguise and stuff. Besides Akai decieving the whole BO, no one has in the family has done anything. And for Akai---> Subaru is done by Yukiko and Agasa's Neck Vioce changer. So there is nothing that AKAI has done. But yes, Tsutomu is Alive. That's my say.
PhantomWriter
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby PhantomWriter » January 27th, 2017, 7:02 pm

I'm not sold on the idea of Tsutomu being alive, to be entirely honest. Though it would add another parallel to Char Aznable for Shuichi, death of major plot characters starts getting cheapened the more what few plot characters who are dead start showing up and it turning out they faked their deaths after however many years with no real indication other than "no corpse."

(I don't count Shuichi's fake death there, since there were hints in the same volume that Shuichi wasn't dead, even if it was obscured at the time.)
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -Sherlock Holmes
RucyL
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby RucyL » March 7th, 2017, 4:48 pm

RucyL wrote:Rumi - 3 options. 1 Rational option: Secret police agent (or ex-agent)
2 Irrational option: Something in my mind keeps saying "She's Vermouth on disguise". But, Haibara would have noticed it, right? right?!?
3 Less irrational option: A minor BO member.
Either way, investigating something related to Haneda's murder.


I'm atonished there's quite an amount of people that have the theory of Rumi being Vermouth. For me it was like an vague intuition, and I was going to be surprised if it turned out to be true, but since so many people believe it, it may not be as irrational as I thought at first instance.
"A true lady leaves no puzzle unsolved."
Absenta
Posts: 36

Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Absenta » March 7th, 2017, 5:43 pm

Why would Vermouth disguise Rumi, and most important, why Rumi/Vermouth would behave they way she does (specially in last case)

Seen in another way it´s possible that Vermouth is disguising a woman called Rumi Wakasa (ASACA) to draw the attention of all the people involved in the Kohji Haneda case, in order to eliminate them and cover Rum.

I don´t think Rumi is Vermouth, would be very repetitive and they way she behaved in last case makes me think that she is has hidden intentions.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 7th, 2017, 8:56 pm

RucyL wrote:
RucyL wrote:Rumi - 3 options. 1 Rational option: Secret police agent (or ex-agent)
2 Irrational option: Something in my mind keeps saying "She's Vermouth on disguise". But, Haibara would have noticed it, right? right?!?
3 Less irrational option: A minor BO member.
Either way, investigating something related to Haneda's murder.


I'm atonished there's quite an amount of people that have the theory of Rumi being Vermouth. For me it was like an vague intuition, and I was going to be surprised if it turned out to be true, but since so many people believe it, it may not be as irrational as I thought at first instance.

It's less people that think that from what I can gather, but it's still a very reasonable theory.

Absenta wrote:I don´t think Rumi is Vermouth, would be very repetitive and they way she behaved in last case makes me think that she is has hidden intentions.
Of course she would have hidden intentions, whether she's Vermouth or not.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
alphajjc
Posts: 89

Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby alphajjc » March 8th, 2017, 1:12 pm

Guys isn't it ironic that the two main BO members in the Reconnaissance Division are both "grey" characters for their organization? One ...Bourbon was we know is not on the BO's side at all and the other one Vermouth is back and forth

Off topic but just something funny i noticed
kkuuddoo
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby kkuuddoo » March 8th, 2017, 1:49 pm

I don't think that Bourbon is one of the main BO Members, I would consider Vermouth to be main or important, along side Gin.

Wealso have the boss, Rum and maybe some new not yet introduced members, BO really needs some more loyal people since vermouth is Grey and Bourbon is a spy along side CIA's Kir
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