Fit the pieces together

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 7th, 2017, 12:40 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Rum ~ Taka'aki; Heizo; Chikara Katsumasa – Most likely

I mean they are definitely far more desired as suspects(Chikara excluded), but how are they more likely? x)
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Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 11th, 2017, 9:52 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Rum ~ Taka'aki; Heizo; Chikara Katsumasa – Most likely

I mean they are definitely far more desired as suspects(Chikara excluded), but how are they more likely? x)


For me, they're the most likely to turn out to be Rum.

At least, I consider them more likely to be Rum than Hyoue and Kanenori.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
PhantomWriter
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby PhantomWriter » January 16th, 2017, 1:00 pm

Tantei San wrote:
4. Asaka- Mary/??/Dad Akai
1. Mary- If she is Asaka, then she probably was hired by Rum/BO for the eviction of kohji haneda and later RUM was to kill her by using APTX but only ended up making her shrink.(leading to the fact, the he knows APTX is shrinking some to kids)
2. If someone else is asaka we might have to check.
3. If Dad akai is asaka then probably mary either saw him killing kohji-amanda and ran to which RUM stopped her and gave her APTX.


The issue I see with Mary being poisoned then has to do with the beach flashback. Kohji's murder happened 17 years ago, while the flashback is 10 years ago and she's still an adult at that point. She had to have been poisoned with something after that flashback. I have a personal theory that she was poisoned before Shuichi showed up in volume 37 (he recognized Haibara as Shiho instantly...).

As for the theories of who is who and who's doing what, I'm going to comb things over a bit more before I say who I think Asaka, Rum, etc., are.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." -Sherlock Holmes
Tantei San
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Tantei San » January 16th, 2017, 1:41 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:
Tantei San wrote:
4. Asaka- Mary/??/Dad Akai
1. Mary- If she is Asaka, then she probably was hired by Rum/BO for the eviction of kohji haneda and later RUM was to kill her by using APTX but only ended up making her shrink.(leading to the fact, the he knows APTX is shrinking some to kids)
2. If someone else is asaka we might have to check.
3. If Dad akai is asaka then probably mary either saw him killing kohji-amanda and ran to which RUM stopped her and gave her APTX.


The issue I see with Mary being poisoned then has to do with the beach flashback. Kohji's murder happened 17 years ago, while the flashback is 10 years ago and she's still an adult at that point. She had to have been poisoned with something after that flashback. I have a personal theory that she was poisoned before Shuichi showed up in volume 37 (he recognized Haibara as Shiho instantly...).

As for the theories of who is who and who's doing what, I'm going to comb things over a bit more before I say who I think Asaka, Rum, etc., are.

I'll look forward in that direction once, I am free from my studies.
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 16th, 2017, 4:51 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:I have a personal theory that she was poisoned before Shuichi showed up in volume 37 (he recognized Haibara as Shiho instantly...).


In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.

I'm also waiting for Gosho to answer the question of when Shuichi realized that Conan Edogawa was the boy he'd met, 10 years prior. Was it during the Vermouth arc (perhaps as early as his debut) or the Kir arc (perhaps as late as Clash)?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Tantei San
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Tantei San » January 16th, 2017, 5:00 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:I have a personal theory that she was poisoned before Shuichi showed up in volume 37 (he recognized Haibara as Shiho instantly...).


In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.

I'm also waiting for Gosho to answer the question of when Shuichi realized that Conan Edogawa was the boy he'd met, 10 years prior. Was it during the Vermouth arc (perhaps as early as his debut) or the Kir arc (perhaps as late as Clash)?


I don't think Shuichi knew Shinichi/Conan since New York, because If I recall, Akai only met Ran in the alley and not shinichi.. he was somewhere.. Also, It hasn't been shown has it Akai knowing he is the same boy. I mean he knows Shinichi and Conan are same and haven't told him yet but maybe.. He may have recall. Besides He had plenty of time to recall while drinking BOURBON.
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 17th, 2017, 12:48 am

Tantei San wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:I have a personal theory that she was poisoned before Shuichi showed up in volume 37 (he recognized Haibara as Shiho instantly...).


In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.

I'm also waiting for Gosho to answer the question of when Shuichi realized that Conan Edogawa was the boy he'd met, 10 years prior. Was it during the Vermouth arc (perhaps as early as his debut) or the Kir arc (perhaps as late as Clash)?


I don't think Shuichi knew Shinichi/Conan since New York, because If I recall, Akai only met Ran in the alley and not shinichi.. he was somewhere.. Also, It hasn't been shown has it Akai knowing he is the same boy. I mean he knows Shinichi and Conan are same and haven't told him yet but maybe.. He may have recall. Besides He had plenty of time to recall while drinking BOURBON.


You misunderstand.

I mean, since Shuichi saw Shinichi when he really was 7, he could've recognized Shinichi/Conan immediately, perhaps as early as the Bus Hijacking (287–289/230–231). I was merely wondering about exactly when Shuichi realized that Conan Edogawa was the boy he met ten years prior. After all, he recognized Shiho/Ai quickly enough.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Rain73
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Rain73 » January 17th, 2017, 2:47 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.


Regarding whether he knows or not we have the matter with James talking about Sera as a girl when Camel first met her, to which Camel replied surprisingly how did he know she was a girl easily?
since Gosho made sure to have every character that met Sera mistake her for a boy one would think that James actually knows about them in some regard? of course it could be just a case of him meeting the Akai's at some point in the past and that's why he knows :p
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 17th, 2017, 4:25 am

Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.


Regarding whether he knows or not we have the matter with James talking about Sera as a girl when Camel first met her, to which Camel replied surprisingly how did he know she was a girl easily?
since Gosho made sure to have every character that met Sera mistake her for a boy one would think that James actually knows about them in some regard? of course it could be just a case of him meeting the Akai's at some point in the past and that's why he knows :p

Or James met her recently, because She asked for his help when she wanted to move to Japan with Mary(because pass-control would hinder the non-existant "middle-schooler that looks like Sera" from flying). She was in the UK for 3 years, a time period in which James could've visited them as well, in Akai's place. Before that however, Sera was only a middle-schooler living in Japan and although it's hard to say if she looked less masculine in the other's eyes at that time, I'm pretty sure James would recognize her now, if he had seen her then too(since a 4-year age difference wouldn't be too drastic of a change).

Since Gosho was trying to make a point with scene, I'm pretty sure that the plot will ask him to not have seen her since she was a baby, and only recognized her because of a recent behind-the-scenes development.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 17th, 2017, 1:58 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.


Regarding whether he knows or not we have the matter with James talking about Sera as a girl when Camel first met her, to which Camel replied surprisingly how did he know she was a girl easily?
since Gosho made sure to have every character that met Sera mistake her for a boy one would think that James actually knows about them in some regard? of course it could be just a case of him meeting the Akai's at some point in the past and that's why he knows :p

Or James met her recently, because She asked for his help when she wanted to move to Japan with Mary(because pass-control would hinder the non-existant "middle-schooler that looks like Sera" from flying). She was in the UK for 3 years, a time period in which James could've visited them as well, in Akai's place. Before that however, Sera was only a middle-schooler living in Japan and although it's hard to say if she looked less masculine in the other's eyes at that time, I'm pretty sure James would recognize her now, if he had seen her then too(since a 4-year age difference wouldn't be too drastic of a change).

Since Gosho was trying to make a point with scene, I'm pretty sure that the plot will ask him to not have seen her since she was a baby, and only recognized her because of a recent behind-the-scenes development.


I'm talking about whether Shuichi knows his mother has shrunk, not James (though, as of right now, with that scene from 780/651, we have more info to make a better guess as to whether he knows or not). As PhantomWriter suggested, Shuichi knowing his mother had shrunk would provide an explanation as to why he so quickly, apparently, came to the conclusion that Ai Haibara was Shiho/Sherry during the Vermouth arc.

Shuichi also knows that Shinichi Kudo is Conan Edogawa (812–814/690–691), but does he remember meeting Shinichi ten years ago (972–974)?

At some point between the Vermouth arc (287–289/230–231 at the earliest) and the Kir arc (595–598/495–497 at the latest), did he see Shinichi/Conan and immediately think of Holmes' apprentice, the boy who thought he was a Pierrot? Or did such a moment happen later on (622–624/509–510 to the present)? Or does Shuichi not remember their first meeting at all?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Swagnarok
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Swagnarok » January 17th, 2017, 2:28 pm

Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.


Regarding whether he knows or not we have the matter with James talking about Sera as a girl when Camel first met her, to which Camel replied surprisingly how did he know she was a girl easily?
since Gosho made sure to have every character that met Sera mistake her for a boy one would think that James actually knows about them in some regard? of course it could be just a case of him meeting the Akai's at some point in the past and that's why he knows :p


Perhaps, a few years back, the FBI held a Christmas party for its employees, and for whatever reason Masumi ends up tagging along with Shuichi. As soon as they walk through the front door...
James: "Ah, Akai-san! Glad to see you! Is that your little brother?"
*Awkward silence*
名探偵 コナン 死体 の ララバイ
霧山 人道
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Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He has a very good fast draw and he's very highly proficient in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't bother trying to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland.
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection. He joined the project approximately one year before the events of Episodes 128-129 and the two of them worked closely in developing the drug.
Tantei San
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Tantei San » January 17th, 2017, 3:53 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:In terms of establishing why he takes a theory that people can be shrunk/de-aged into serious consideration, that'd certainly work. But Gosho hasn't confirmed whether he knows his mother has shrunk or not, yet.


Regarding whether he knows or not we have the matter with James talking about Sera as a girl when Camel first met her, to which Camel replied surprisingly how did he know she was a girl easily?
since Gosho made sure to have every character that met Sera mistake her for a boy one would think that James actually knows about them in some regard? of course it could be just a case of him meeting the Akai's at some point in the past and that's why he knows :p

Or James met her recently, because She asked for his help when she wanted to move to Japan with Mary(because pass-control would hinder the non-existant "middle-schooler that looks like Sera" from flying). She was in the UK for 3 years, a time period in which James could've visited them as well, in Akai's place. Before that however, Sera was only a middle-schooler living in Japan and although it's hard to say if she looked less masculine in the other's eyes at that time, I'm pretty sure James would recognize her now, if he had seen her then too(since a 4-year age difference wouldn't be too drastic of a change).

Since Gosho was trying to make a point with scene, I'm pretty sure that the plot will ask him to not have seen her since she was a baby, and only recognized her because of a recent behind-the-scenes development.


I'm talking about whether Shuichi knows his mother has shrunk, not James (though, as of right now, with that scene from 780/651, we have more info to make a better guess as to whether he knows or not). As PhantomWriter suggested, Shuichi knowing his mother had shrunk would provide an explanation as to why he so quickly, apparently, came to the conclusion that Ai Haibara was Shiho/Sherry during the Vermouth arc.

Shuichi also knows that Shinichi Kudo is Conan Edogawa (812–814/690–691), but does he remember meeting Shinichi ten years ago (972–974)?

At some point between the Vermouth arc (287–289/230–231 at the earliest) and the Kir arc (595–598/495–497 at the latest), did he see Shinichi/Conan and immediately think of Holmes' apprentice, the boy who thought he was a Pierrot? Or did such a moment happen later on (622–624/509–510 to the present)? Or does Shuichi not remember their first meeting at all?


I believe James and Akai both know about Mary being shrunk. I mean come on why not.
Besides as DCUniverseAficionado posted Regarding Akai knowing Ai/Shiho in an instant.
Don't you think it's obvious. I mean Akai was in BO for almost 5 years and the reason he dated Akemi was to get closer to Shiho. No wonder he did research about her as much he could and he would know how she looked and here whereabouts after she shrunk as well.
Regarding Shinichi resemblence, appearance and recognition. He met him only Once, Masumi remembered due to her WIZARD thing but just because Akai laughed on shinichi's joke doesn't mean he would remember him for like Lifetime.(Nah!)
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Rain73
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Rain73 » January 17th, 2017, 4:27 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I'm talking about whether Shuichi knows his mother has shrunk, not James


What i'm saying is that by extension Akai should know as well, i mean how would Masumi of all people contact James so easily? you would think that Akai was the one that asked James for a favor regarding his family. In the end it's only natural that a companion (Akai) would ask him for a favor instead of that companoin's sister or mother doing so, or is it not?

As for Shuichi recognizing Haibara is Shiho we were shown plenty of times how he says "they look alike",
or "impossible" at the end of Itakura's matter. So in contradiction to what i said above he probably doesn't know about his mother shrinking and his suspicions toward Haibara were based on his previous research about her when he was in the organization

Sadly I am not too good at following a one single theory which in the end creates such contradicting possibilities same as in my thoughts above
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MeiTanteixX
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 17th, 2017, 5:04 pm

Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I'm talking about whether Shuichi knows his mother has shrunk, not James


What i'm saying is that by extension Akai should know as well, i mean how would Masumi of all people contact James so easily? you would think that Akai was the one that asked James for a favor regarding his family. In the end it's only natural that a companion (Akai) would ask him for a favor instead of that companoin's sister or mother doing so, or is it not?

Sera said that her father's close friend was the one that helped her financially for her hotel-living. That family friend is most likely James, so there's nothing weird with Sera and Mary reaching out to him. As for whether Akai knows about Mary's shrinking, it could go either way, since Mary could've made James promise to keep her situation a secret(even from her son, if James told her that he's alive), or Subaru could've been told by James(or known this from the start, depending on when her shrinking took place).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Tantei San
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Re: Fit the pieces together

Postby Tantei San » January 17th, 2017, 5:52 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Rain73 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:I'm talking about whether Shuichi knows his mother has shrunk, not James


What i'm saying is that by extension Akai should know as well, i mean how would Masumi of all people contact James so easily? you would think that Akai was the one that asked James for a favor regarding his family. In the end it's only natural that a companion (Akai) would ask him for a favor instead of that companoin's sister or mother doing so, or is it not?

Sera said that her father's close friend was the one that helped her financially for her hotel-living. That family friend is most likely James, so there's nothing weird with Sera and Mary reaching out to him. As for whether Akai knows about Mary's shrinking, it could go either way, since Mary could've made James promise to keep her situation a secret(even from her son, if James told her that he's alive), or Subaru could've been told by James(or known this from the start, depending on when her shrinking took place).

Exactly!
What now is to see how Gosho reveals how Mary and James are connected, be it Akai or Tsutomu. Also, It hasn't been shown why Akai chose FBI in the first place has it?
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