Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
eros1607
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby eros1607 » October 24th, 2016, 2:32 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
eros1607 wrote:@DCUniverseAfictionado: I prefer Ran not butted in to save Shiho/Ai. Akai is there, he can save her. And Shiho meeting Akai is a huge plot catalyst.

[..]

Usually, in fiction we don't like people just because they did right or not. If that is the case, Joker is not that popular.


If he could've done that, then he would've taken out Calvados way before he shot Jodie.

Let Ran have that moment—it's her most important plot moment (and on a related note, I like Shiho/Ai and Ran, together, in general—it's something I'd like to see more of, in fact).

It'd be a huge character catalyst... will it lead to anything beyond their inevitable reconciliation? I don't think so. Thus, it's not really a pure plot-based catalyst (like Vermouth, APTX or Koji Haneda).

If you're going with the popularity argument, then Batman is just as popular.

I like real people and fictional characters who do the right thing. You may not find that interesting, and, thus, not likable, but that's you.

I don't see the problem of Ran making Kogoro give the ticket back, or her recognizing the possibility that the ticket was the woman's, and taking according action, since Kogoro wouldn't.

MeiTanteixX wrote:
eros1607 wrote:@DCUniverseAfictionado: I prefer Ran not butted in to save Shiho/Ai. Akai is there, he can save her. And Shiho meeting Akai is a huge plot catalyst. Usually, in fiction we don't like people just because they did right or not. If that is the case, Joker is not that popular.

In my opinion, this is one of the most absurd opinions I've read.


And this is coming from another person who's also been very much looking forward to their meeting.



I don't have any problems with Ran in this Shushi case. I just talk about that full moon showdown. About the character is likeable, I didn't say I dislike people who do the right things. I just say they need more to be likeable. And yeah I am looking forward to seeing the meeting of Akai and Shiho just as much as I am looking forward to seeing Amuro settle everything with Akai, Amuro's relationship with Elena, the truth of the death of Haneda Kohji, Rum's identity. Gosho foreshadows the suspicion of Shiho towards Akai for long enough. To me, they are important just like the suspicion of Ran towards Conan. My opinion may be absurd but waiting for too long sometimes can make people not always rational. I am sorry about that.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 24th, 2016, 2:40 am

eros1607 wrote:About the character is likeable, I didn't say I dislike people who do the right things. I just say they need more to be likeable.

And yeah I am looking forward to seeing the meeting of Akai and Shiho just as much as I am looking forward to seeing Amuro settle everything with Akai, Amuro's relationship with Elena, the truth of the death of Haneda Kohji, Rum's identity. Gosho foreshadows the suspicion of Shiho towards Akai for long enough. To me, they are important just like the suspicion of Ran towards Conan. My opinion may be absurd but waiting for too long sometimes can make people not always rational. I am sorry about that.


And that's what I meant by "interesting." I presume Ran just doesn't interest you like, say, Shiho/Ai does. Thus, you like Shiho/Ai more (or whichever character interests you more).

Yep, DC could've ended long ago... and you know what? I don't mind that it's still going. I guess, even though I've been a fan just 2 years, I'm just a person with boundless patience.

And you know what else? If you're tired, I hope, for your sake, and for the sake of all those who've waited what they think is "long enough," that Gosho gets to it. And if it gets to be too much, the wait, take a break. I know one person on this site who has, and I don't think he was by any means the first.
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on October 24th, 2016, 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby Spimer » October 24th, 2016, 2:40 am

@DCUniverseAficionado, @eros1607:
Alright, guys, let's keep it civil and avoid heating up.

If you want to continue discussing Ran's character then do it on PMs to avoid derailing this thread from the main topic.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby 1988 » October 24th, 2016, 8:58 am

Spoiler:
Wakita's handedness is interesting; almost every time his body was shown, he was doing something with his right hand. Red herring?

Spoiler:
Checking back now, I just realized every rum candidate so far is right handed...
Last edited by 1988 on November 12th, 2017, 1:53 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 25th, 2016, 3:13 am

1988 wrote:
Spoiler:
Checking back now, I just realized every RUM suspect so far is right handed...


Spoiler:
Does that include Chikara Katsumasa, Heizo Hattori, and Taka'aki Morofushi?

Come to think of it, I wonder if Chek has done her sight test on the former two? I know she did it on Taka'aki. Doing it on Chikara wouldn't really do much, though, considering just how few appearances he has, even in the files in which he appears. But I would be interested to see the results for Heizo.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-97X

Postby Serinox » October 25th, 2016, 5:34 pm

Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
eros1607 wrote:
Nemomon wrote:
Spoiler:
Ran again butts in... It is really hard to like her...


Spoiler:
???

So her doing the right thing makes her unlikeable? Really?

Geez, next thing you're gonna say is that she shouldn't have "butted in" when Vermouth was going to kill Shiho/Ai.


Spoiler:
In this case Ran "butted in" two times. First, she accused her own father to be a thief. Which means that her trust in father is pretty low. She even risked her father being thrown in jail. She even for a second didn't think what trouble she can cause. If I were in her shoes, I'd rather try to protect my own father (regardless of what crime he would commit) than sell him, and what's more - for free.

Second, she forced him to give up the ticket. There is a saying - "finders keepers, losers weepers". Kogorou didn't steal the ticket, he found it, so now it belongs to him. Now it should be up to him whether to bring the ticket to station, or not. Not her business. Plus, if Kogorou kept the ticket, even her own life would improve a bit.

In other words, she officially accused her own father being a thief, almost got him arrested, almost ruined his reputation, and gave up a lot of money. In my book she is too irresponsible, and definitely doesn't act her age. Girls 16/17 yo are much more inteligent, or at least smarter than her.

I hardly can like such a stupid character.

Spoiler:
Strongly disagree. Ran didn't accuse Kogoro of being a thief, she merely explained the situation in which Kogoro accidentally picked up the 10,000 Yen ticket. She actually wanted to prevent him from getting arrested, by preemptively admitting to having the ticket instead of having it being found during a police search or when all suspects put their belongings on the table, because it would be more suspicious if it was only found then.

And the whole thing with returning the ticket to the police station is a morality question: personally, I would keep it too, but I know enough people who wouldn't. Conan and Ran see it differently (they both do btw and they both want him to return it, not just Ran) and that's the morale that Gosho gives us at the end as well. Not something I would call Ran dumb for, neither of these two aspects. The first one was rather smart too.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby AISilverB » October 27th, 2016, 12:13 am

Spoiler:
I'm not the first one to noticed this but I just want to know your opinions about this. Is it just a random information, a reference to Kamen Yaiba, or does it pertains to something else? ;)
Suspect: I just wanted to watch Kamen Yaiba, okay?
Suspect: Today's episode is where the second-in-command of the boss makes his appearance.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby Themaninarmor » October 27th, 2016, 12:50 am

AISilverB wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm not the first one to noticed this but I just want to know your opinions about this. Is it just a random information, a reference to Kamen Yaiba, or does it pertains to something else? ;)
Suspect: I just wanted to watch Kamen Yaiba, okay?
Suspect: Today's episode is where the second-in-command of the boss makes his appearance.


;D i hope so... ;D
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby Valentin » October 27th, 2016, 3:48 am

AISilverB wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm not the first one to noticed this but I just want to know your opinions about this. Is it just a random information, a reference to Kamen Yaiba, or does it pertains to something else? ;)
Suspect: I just wanted to watch Kamen Yaiba, okay?
Suspect: Today's episode is where the second-in-command of the boss makes his appearance.
Spoiler:
That seems to be yet another inaccuracy of the English version.

The original wording is 敵のボスの側近, which means close associate of the opponent’s boss. While this clearly seems to be an allusion to Conan’s situation in some way and has been pointed out by Chinese and Japanese fans as well, it is not as obvious as the translator would like it to be. As far as I know, 側近 only refers to the surroundings of someone in a high position; that can of course be a close associate, as listed by dictionaries. But I think that second-in-command is a wording that sacrifices the actual meaning in favor of making the parallel more apparent; 側近 does not state which rank exactly someone has, but merely that they are nearby, which is why I think that several persons could be called 側近 without being the second-in-command or without such a hierarchy existing in the first place. If Aoyama had wanted to be that precise, he could simply have mentioned a ナンバーツー ‘number two’, which he is employing for Rum. (In that context, Japanese fans even write ナンバーツーの側近 containing both close associate and number two in order to be more concrete, which supports my notion that second-in-command is an incorrect term for 側近.)

Perhaps other translators could confirm this.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 27th, 2016, 7:12 am

After reading File 977, I'm seriously confused with Gosho’s implications...

The first impression I got was that Wakita is a BO member who looks down on Rum:
Wakita - "Pirate's Spirit is such a weak horse..."

And now, the second impression I'm getting is that Wakita is actually Rum:
Suspect - "Today is the episode where second-in-command of the boss appears"

I can't tell if it's all just random easter eggs, a red-herring, or if Wakita is actually Rum and he's very self-conscious and underestimates his abilities... :/

Like Conan pointed out, the disciple-thingy is getting old. Are we gonna have a clash between Amuro and Wakita now? (Amuro has to uphold his disciple-act after all :P)
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Spoiler:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby lavendragon » October 27th, 2016, 8:17 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:After reading File 977, I'm seriously confused with Gosho’s implications...

The first impression I got was that Wakita is a BO member who looks down on Rum:
Wakita - "Pirate's Spirit is such a weak horse..."

And now, the second impression I'm getting is that Wakita is actually Rum:
Suspect - "Today is the episode where second-in-command of the boss appears"

I can't tell if it's all just random easter eggs, a red-herring, or if Wakita is actually Rum and he's very self-conscious and underestimates his abilities... :/

Like Conan pointed out, the disciple-thingy is getting old. Are we gonna have a clash between Amuro and Wakita now? (Amuro has to uphold his disciple-act after all :P)



As @Valentin explained above, it might just be an inaccuracy in the translation. I am surprised myself when I see the word second-in-command because when I read Yunnie-chan's tumblr, she translated that the culprit said "Today’s the episode where enemies’ boss closest subordinate appears!" instead.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 27th, 2016, 10:11 am

lavendragon wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:After reading File 977, I'm seriously confused with Gosho’s implications...

The first impression I got was that Wakita is a BO member who looks down on Rum:
Wakita - "Pirate's Spirit is such a weak horse..."

And now, the second impression I'm getting is that Wakita is actually Rum:
Suspect - "Today is the episode where second-in-command of the boss appears"

I can't tell if it's all just random easter eggs, a red-herring, or if Wakita is actually Rum and he's very self-conscious and underestimates his abilities... :/

Like Conan pointed out, the disciple-thingy is getting old. Are we gonna have a clash between Amuro and Wakita now? (Amuro has to uphold his disciple-act after all :P)



As @Valentin explained above, it might just be an inaccuracy in the translation. I am surprised myself when I see the word second-in-command because when I read Yunnie-chan's tumblr, she translated that the culprit said "Today’s the episode where enemies’ boss closest subordinate appears!" instead.

didn't read the spoiler comments, that's why I missed it.

It still accurate that it was referring to the "second-in-command", unless we are gonna get introduced to another character close to the Boss, who is Wakita.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby eros1607 » October 27th, 2016, 11:10 am

I honestly don't think this guy is Rum. He may be related to BO but if he is Rum, he will not spend his time to do something like spying/investigating Kogoro. Just kill Kogoro anyway and he even need not to directly do that if he doesn't want to expose his identity like in the death of Haneda Kohji.
Last edited by eros1607 on October 27th, 2016, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 27th, 2016, 12:00 pm

eros1607 wrote:I honestly don't think this guy is Rum. He may be related to BO but if he is Rum, he will not spend his time to do something like spying/investigating Kogoro. Just kill Kogoro anyway and he even need to directly do that if he doesn't want to expose his identity like in the death of Haneda Kohji.

I still think he is BO related as well, but I don't see how he is Rum, besides that Rum reference.
If he is investigating Kogoro as per Gin's suspicion, then it makes perfect sense why he wouldn't just kill such a known famous figure, without concrete proof. If he proves to be unharmful to the BO, then they don't have to dirty their hands with his case anymore.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
eros1607
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 975-977

Postby eros1607 » October 27th, 2016, 12:03 pm

I'm sorry with my writing. I missed the world "not" when I try to point out that Wakita need not to directly kill Kogoro. Sorry about that.

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