Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Jesse Sravya
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Jesse Sravya » October 3rd, 2016, 12:17 am

What if asaka was an infiltrated member. Amanda could be investigating the case by letting Asaka into B.O. But on one unfortunate day, during a case Rum found out about Asaka being a NOC. just like Akai's case.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby k11chi » October 3rd, 2016, 2:58 am

Its possible but would Amanda have such power because she was a simple investor from what we know. A 3rd party character.

Also both Amanda and Kohji seem to have been killed via the same method so the culprit must have been after something either of them were in possession of. Maybe they saw Amanda give something to Kohji and after killing Amanda and going to Kohjis room to look for "it," he happened to come back when they were ransacking the place.
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I guess it being money. Possible but, this is just a theory, it could have something related to not Rum's but the boss's identity because of the evidence they were leaving behind, trying to find something they absolutely must get back regardless of the risks. Also perhaps some way Amanda was blackmailing the BO while investing on a research to get whatever she wanted... Thats why the two of them were killed by Rum and the boss personally and thats why he became the right-hand man. Since this takes place nearly two decades ago its probably related to sometype of plot point with the Miyanos also.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 3rd, 2016, 3:21 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:The reason I ask is that I find it a bit weird about Asaka being the uploader. That would mean that Asaka is uploading the story from the point of view where he/she is saying that they are the main suspect. Also regardless of whether Asaka had solved the dying message, their name appears in it. If anyone else were to actually find the information and look in to it (besides Conan) then Asaka would still be the main suspect.


The reason I don't believe Asaka is Rum, at this point, is because of Shinichi's/Conan's focus on it.

Typically, when Shinichi/Conan figures out one of the core mysteries of an arc, it's not officially revealed that he's figured it out until the truth behind the mystery is officially revealed to us.

For instance...

In the runup to the Vermouth arc climax (File 420–File 428/Episode 338–Episode 344), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Vermouth had disguised as Tomoaki Ariade.

During the majority of the Kir arc (File 499–File 621/Episode 425–Episode 508) Shinichi/Conan thought that Hidemi Hondo had been killed and had her appearance taken by Rena Mizunashi/Kir (at the very least, he stated this hypothesis openly, to Heiji, in File 559/Episode 479). When he did realize the truth, on Page 13 of File 596/4:02–4:10 of Episode 496, he never thought, "She is his sister!" Rather, only visuals were shown—he never had an internal monologue about the truth until it was actually revealed, in File 604/Episode 500—before that, it was an incorrect deduction due to incomplete information.

In the runup to Mystery Train (File 793–File 817/Episode 667–Episode 700), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Bourbon was Toru Amuro.

With the events of Scarlet Prologue (File 892/Episode 780), Shinichi's/Conan's suspicions that Bourbon was a NOC were apparently dismissed as wrong... until Scarlet Showdown (File 897/Episode 783), where they were proven right... just as the Hidemi = Rena/Kir theory was seemingly debunked (File 586–File 587/Episode 491–Episode 492), and then revealed to, indeed, be correct (File 604/Episode 500).

And here we are, in the Rum arc...

So little is actually known about the double murder of Koji Haneda and Amanda Hughes, which, according to Gin's comments, was carried out by Rum (File 953)—no one's contesting that Rum was behind the murders.

And yet we have Shinichi/Conan constantly thinking to himself, after File 950, "Asaka must be Rum!" To me, this conclusion of his is really rushed, and seems to be little more than an initial appraisal of the situation, based on incomplete information, a.k.a., a lack of the full/complete picture.

In other words, I think the "Asaka = Rum" theory is going to turn out to be as valid as "Hidemi Hondo was killed and replaced by Rena Mizunashi/Kir" theory turned out to be.

Thus, if Asaka is not Rum, the most likely candidate becomes Rumi Wakasa, due to her appearance, age and abilities.

Her interest in Shinichi/Conan is also a factor—perhaps she was able to track him to to his access of the web page where she posted the info, and/or had her full attention on the murder of Gaito Hotta (File 951–File 953). Eventually, either one or both led her to tracking down Shinichi/Conan and becoming a faculty member at Teitan Elementary to get a look at him in person, and test him.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 3rd, 2016, 10:46 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:The reason I ask is that I find it a bit weird about Asaka being the uploader. That would mean that Asaka is uploading the story from the point of view where he/she is saying that they are the main suspect. Also regardless of whether Asaka had solved the dying message, their name appears in it. If anyone else were to actually find the information and look in to it (besides Conan) then Asaka would still be the main suspect.


The reason I don't believe Asaka is Rum, at this point, is because of Shinichi's/Conan's focus on it.

Typically, when Shinichi/Conan figures out one of the core mysteries of an arc, it's not officially revealed that he's figured it out until the truth behind the mystery is officially revealed to us.

For instance...

In the runup to the Vermouth arc climax (File 420–File 428/Episode 338–Episode 344), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Vermouth had disguised as Tomoaki Ariade.

During the majority of the Kir arc (File 499–File 621/Episode 425–Episode 508) Shinichi/Conan thought that Hidemi Hondo had been killed and had her appearance taken by Rena Mizunashi/Kir (at the very least, he stated this hypothesis openly, to Heiji, in File 559/Episode 479). When he did realize the truth, on Page 13 of File 596/4:02–4:10 of Episode 496, he never thought, "She is his sister!" Rather, only visuals were shown—he never had an internal monologue about the truth until it was actually revealed, in File 604/Episode 500—before that, it was an incorrect deduction due to incomplete information.

In the runup to Mystery Train (File 793–File 817/Episode 667–Episode 700), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Bourbon was Toru Amuro.

With the events of Scarlet Prologue (File 892/Episode 780), Shinichi's/Conan's suspicions that Bourbon was a NOC were apparently dismissed as wrong... until Scarlet Showdown (File 897/Episode 783), where they were proven right... just as the Hidemi = Rena/Kir theory was seemingly debunked (File 586–File 587/Episode 491–Episode 492), and then revealed to, indeed, be correct (File 604/Episode 500).

And here we are, in the Rum arc...

So little is actually known about the double murder of Koji Haneda and Amanda Hughes, which, according to Gin's comments, was carried out by Rum (File 953)—no one's contesting that Rum was behind the murders.

And yet we have Shinichi/Conan constantly thinking to himself, after File 950, "Asaka must be Rum!" To me, this conclusion of his is really rushed, and seems to be little more than an initial appraisal of the situation, based on incomplete information, a.k.a., a lack of the full/complete picture.

In other words, I think the "Asaka = Rum" theory is going to turn out to be as valid as "Hidemi Hondo was killed and replaced by Rena Mizunashi/Kir" theory turned out to be.

Thus, if Asaka is not Rum, the most likely candidate becomes Rumi Wakasa, due to her appearance, age and abilities.

Her interest in Shinichi/Conan is also a factor—perhaps she was able to track him to to his access of the web page where she posted the info, and/or had her full attention on the murder of Gaito Hotta (File 951–File 953). Eventually, either one or both led her to tracking down Shinichi/Conan and becoming a faculty member at Teitan Elementary to get a look at him in person, and test him.

This is splendidly laid out!
I agree with everything said here!

The reason I'm highlighting the Bourbon topic is because Conan never suspected, or had a clue that Bourbon was close to them(other than him possibly knowing that he was Scar Akai at that time), nonetheless that it was Amuro Tooru. He found out in the last minute in Mystery train that Bourbon and Vermouth was in the train(through Yukiko and Akai's confirmation), and that it was Amuro.
Still, your point is valid.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Spimer » October 3rd, 2016, 11:01 am

I also agree. Conan's conclusion is hasted, he doesn't have all the pieces of the picture.

And his conclusion might change now that he remembers who Mary really is.

It's true that Rumi's shown interest in Conan and led him to the pieces needed to solve the code while demonstrating surprising fighting abilities but we don't know her role in the overall picture: she could NPA for all we know, sent by Kuroda to investigate Conan (this is my personal speculation: I know there is no proof).

Also, I think that the mysteries-loving chef can't really be considered a "detective" per se, he's just a fan of mysteries in general and will probably be a CoTD (character of the day) who'll try to use what he's seen or heard to challenge Kogoro only to be proven wrong in the end.

Oh well. Let us sit and wait for further developments.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Incomplete-tantei » October 3rd, 2016, 12:55 pm

I don't know what you guys think about it but for me I think the real reason why Masumi calls Shinichi a wizard is simply because she fell in love with him back then.

I wasn't thinking about a real reason why she would call him a wizard in the present time but why she called him a wizard 10 years ago. So it would be ; he made her "never laughing" brother laughed twice and because he cast a magical spell into her heart, love ^^.

There's also something I find weird. Masumi and Shuukichi both noticed Conan was Shinichi at first sight. But Akai didn't ? At the end of the showdown between FBI and the Org in ep 425, Akai asks Jodie who is Conan, saying something like "Again that child? Who is he?". He could have pretended he didn't know him but still...
Moreover, Akai/Okiya has only known about Conan's identity until recently right? Akai is the older one so his memories should be even sharper than Masumi's and he's the one who had the most interactions with Lil' Shinichi so why only Masumi and Shukichi identified him as Shinichi right away? Hmm.
Last edited by Incomplete-tantei on October 3rd, 2016, 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jesse Sravya
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Jesse Sravya » October 3rd, 2016, 12:58 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:The reason I ask is that I find it a bit weird about Asaka being the uploader. That would mean that Asaka is uploading the story from the point of view where he/she is saying that they are the main suspect. Also regardless of whether Asaka had solved the dying message, their name appears in it. If anyone else were to actually find the information and look in to it (besides Conan) then Asaka would still be the main suspect.


The reason I don't believe Asaka is Rum, at this point, is because of Shinichi's/Conan's focus on it.

Typically, when Shinichi/Conan figures out one of the core mysteries of an arc, it's not officially revealed that he's figured it out until the truth behind the mystery is officially revealed to us.

For instance...

In the runup to the Vermouth arc climax (File 420–File 428/Episode 338–Episode 344), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Vermouth had disguised as Tomoaki Ariade.

During the majority of the Kir arc (File 499–File 621/Episode 425–Episode 508) Shinichi/Conan thought that Hidemi Hondo had been killed and had her appearance taken by Rena Mizunashi/Kir (at the very least, he stated this hypothesis openly, to Heiji, in File 559/Episode 479). When he did realize the truth, on Page 13 of File 596/4:02–4:10 of Episode 496, he never thought, "She is his sister!" Rather, only visuals were shown—he never had an internal monologue about the truth until it was actually revealed, in File 604/Episode 500—before that, it was an incorrect deduction due to incomplete information.

In the runup to Mystery Train (File 793–File 817/Episode 667–Episode 700), Shinichi/Conan never had an internal monologue (that we were shown, at least) where he thought that Bourbon was Toru Amuro.

With the events of Scarlet Prologue (File 892/Episode 780), Shinichi's/Conan's suspicions that Bourbon was a NOC were apparently dismissed as wrong... until Scarlet Showdown (File 897/Episode 783), where they were proven right... just as the Hidemi = Rena/Kir theory was seemingly debunked (File 586–File 587/Episode 491–Episode 492), and then revealed to, indeed, be correct (File 604/Episode 500).

And here we are, in the Rum arc...

So little is actually known about the double murder of Koji Haneda and Amanda Hughes, which, according to Gin's comments, was carried out by Rum (File 953)—no one's contesting that Rum was behind the murders.

And yet we have Shinichi/Conan constantly thinking to himself, after File 950, "Asaka must be Rum!" To me, this conclusion of his is really rushed, and seems to be little more than an initial appraisal of the situation, based on incomplete information, a.k.a., a lack of the full/complete picture.

In other words, I think the "Asaka = Rum" theory is going to turn out to be as valid as "Hidemi Hondo was killed and replaced by Rena Mizunashi/Kir" theory turned out to be.

Thus, if Asaka is not Rum, the most likely candidate becomes Rumi Wakasa, due to her appearance, age and abilities.

Her interest in Shinichi/Conan is also a factor—perhaps she was able to track him to to his access of the web page where she posted the info, and/or had her full attention on the murder of Gaito Hotta (File 951–File 953). Eventually, either one or both led her to tracking down Shinichi/Conan and becoming a faculty member at Teitan Elementary to get a look at him in person, and test him.


I am not implying that Rum is Asaka. I indeed believe that they're different people. What I am implying is they are two unique beings, both BO members. Rum is true-blooded and Asaka in a NOC.

Spimer wrote:I also agree. Conan's conclusion is hasted, he doesn't have all the pieces of the picture.

And his conclusion might change now that he remembers who Mary really is.

It's true that Rumi's shown interest in Conan and led him to the pieces needed to solve the code while demonstrating surprising fighting abilities but we don't know her role in the overall picture: she could NPA for all we know, sent by Kuroda to investigate Conan (this is my personal speculation: I know there is no proof).

Also, I think that the mysteries-loving chef can't really be considered a "detective" per se, he's just a fan of mysteries in general and will probably be a CoTD (character of the day) who'll try to use what he's seen or heard to challenge Kogoro only to be proven wrong in the end.

Oh well. Let us sit and wait for further developments.


This thing interests me. Why would Rumi show interest in Conan? I've few reasons for it.

- She can be from BO. People from BO generally don't acknowledge Conan unless its Vermouth or Bourbon. If she has to be from BO, then she must be a pawn of Vermouth. On the other hand, there was a really evil expression on her face before she hit the robbers. Its pretty confusing to determine if she's on the good side or bad side.

- Akai's family already know about Conan and his abilities. They wouldn't send Rumi.

- Kuroda's investigation seems a valid possibility.

- She's a new character, interested in Conan's intelligence. She was afftected by him somehow, the past or a mutual friend.

The other thing that quite bothers me is that her behaviour towards Conan is EXACTLY like Vermouth. That smile at the end, trying to protect him at all cost etc. This could be a coincidence but I've an intuition that it isn't.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Serinox » October 3rd, 2016, 1:34 pm

Jesse Sravya wrote:The other thing that quite bothers me is that her behaviour towards Conan is EXACTLY like Vermouth. That smile at the end, trying to protect him at all cost etc. This could be a coincidence but I've an intuition that it isn't.

You know, this sentence made me think of Gosho's design notes on Vermouth, where he said that both Vermouth and Yukiko were inspired by Fujiko Mine from Lupin III, Vermouth representing Fujiko's evil side and Yukiko represeting Fujiko's good side. Now, it doesn't really make too much sense for Yukiko to be Rumi, aside from the fact that they are both 37 years old and caring about Conan in that way would be kinda appropriate for Yukiko as well, but there are simply too many things that would be off here. But it was an entertaining thought for about a minute :P
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » October 3rd, 2016, 2:16 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:The reason I ask is that I find it a bit weird about Asaka being the uploader. That would mean that Asaka is uploading the story from the point of view where he/she is saying that they are the main suspect. Also regardless of whether Asaka had solved the dying message, their name appears in it. If anyone else were to actually find the information and look in to it (besides Conan) then Asaka would still be the main suspect.


Thus, if Asaka is not Rum, the most likely candidate becomes Rumi Wakasa, due to her appearance, age and abilities.

Her interest in Shinichi/Conan is also a factor—perhaps she was able to track him to to his access of the web page where she posted the info, and/or had her full attention on the murder of Gaito Hotta (File 951–File 953). Eventually, either one or both led her to tracking down Shinichi/Conan and becoming a faculty member at Teitan Elementary to get a look at him in person, and test him.


What do you mean by appearance? Asaka's appearance, what we can see from the out of focus photograph, is 17 years out of date. Also Asaka is supposedly androgynous enough that even Hotta was only guessing due to the mirror. But Rumi is clearly dressed in a "feminine" type fashion.

(this is just a question and not an argument, for or against her)
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby MrDetective » October 3rd, 2016, 2:31 pm

I still think Kuroda is Rum and you can't convince me otherwise
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby ATEM » October 3rd, 2016, 2:49 pm

MrDetective wrote:I still think Kuroda is Rum and you can't convince me otherwise


I am with" everything is possible" at this moment , but I can't see kuroda feminine by any mean also like haibara had said he would have recognized her or she is lying and she has already recognized him as Rum or she noticed somthing that excluded him from being a Rum suspect to her
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Swagnarok » October 3rd, 2016, 3:30 pm

MrDetective wrote:I still think Kuroda is Rum and you can't convince me otherwise


If Hyoue Kuroda is Rum's actual identity, then Rum must actually be a big guy (it would've been next to impossible for a guy in a coma to wear a fat suit or inflatable thingy without his caretakers eventually noticing; it's unreasonable to assume that he ballooned in weight while in a coma, as the opposite generally occurs).
If Rum was genuinely fat several years ago and today, this would contradict the idea that he appeared to several people as an old man and an effeminate man (in Detective Conan, old people are usually depicted as skinny, and people generally think of a skinny person when they think of an effeminate man; this is reflected in the silhouettes shown of effeminate and elderly Rum). Now, it isn't impossible, but it is unlikely.
Now, it could easily be said that Rum has in recent weeks/months disguised himself as Hyoue Kuroda.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby Spimer » October 3rd, 2016, 4:41 pm

I have the feeling we're getting a bit off-topic (me included). We're supposed to talk about the happenings in these files and now it's turning into speculation of who RUM could be.

I think that the RUM speculation would be better off on its own thread which already exists: I think we should shift the talk to the teaser of the next case.
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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby MeiTanteixX » October 3rd, 2016, 5:56 pm

Spimer wrote:I have the feeling we're getting a bit off-topic (me included). We're supposed to talk about the happenings in these files and now it's turning into speculation of who RUM could be.

I think that the RUM speculation would be better off on its own thread which already exists: I think we should shift the talk to the teaser of the next case.

So....any appearance/characteristic guesses to the upcoming detective?/..

Spoiler:
...chef detective? ....
I'm guessing that he will have something unique going on in his face, but most importantly....he likes drinking Rum with his food :P
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

Postby KaitoRizu » October 4th, 2016, 3:08 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spimer wrote:I have the feeling we're getting a bit off-topic (me included). We're supposed to talk about the happenings in these files and now it's turning into speculation of who RUM could be.

I think that the RUM speculation would be better off on its own thread which already exists: I think we should shift the talk to the teaser of the next case.

So....any appearance/characteristic guesses to the upcoming detective?/..

Spoiler:
...chef detective? ....
I'm guessing that he will have something unique going on in his face, but most importantly....he likes drinking Rum with his food :P

Spoiler:
and he wears glasses that shines over one eye :P


@Spimer sorry.. the post I wrote ended up changing the topic like that and I wrote it when I was completely forgetting about Rumi's existence... I should be more careful when I post something even if it was just speculation... I'll be more careful in the future...
Thanks for the SS Kamite! ;D
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