Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

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Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Swagnarok » August 23rd, 2016, 11:34 pm

If we're to go by Occam's razor, there's no reason to believe in this theory. It makes more assumptions than the conventionally held account of Kohji's death does. That being said, Gosho Aoyama is a mystery writer; unexpected twists are what he does best. If everything in Detective Conan was predictable, it wouldn't be as interesting as it is, and he already has pulled the wool over our eyes on seemingly solved cases ("Mizunashi Rena cannot be Eisuke's sister because they've got different blood types. Well, case closed. Time to move on to the hospital showdown). Given this, it's possible that Aoyama may go down this route precisely because it's unexpected.
Shiho spent a great deal of her life in the United States, a country where English is the only official language. Given this fact, she most likely speaks English as a second language. Even though this is probably the case, she doesn't seem to have a full mastery of the language. For instance, whenever Conan said "Vermouth" to her, she didn't react at all. Whenever he said "Belmot" (the Japanese name for this given alcoholic beverage), she panicked. Either she knew the Japanese name for the beverage (Belmot) but not its English equivalent (Vermouth) or she didn't recognise the alcohol in question and only heard the word Belmot from BO agents as the codename of that youthful 50 year old woman.

There's nothing to suggest that, prior to his trip to the United States, Kohji Haneda spent any time at all in an English-speaking country. Assuming that Asaka is a Japanese name (a Japanese person who was working for an American client would likely know both languages), it's possible that Kohji didn't have to learn any English at all for his trip to America and that Asaka would serve as a translator.
In short, if a person who had spent much of her life in America only knew the Japanese name for a given alcoholic beverage, it's not a stretch to assume that likewise, Kohji would not know the English name of certain alcoholic beverages. The beverage in question is called "Rum" in English. In Japanese it's "Ramu".
Despite this, he might know of the Latin alphabet, which is used for English and a variety of other languages. Ramu is a foreign import word, since Rum did not originate in Japan or its nearby neighbors. Given this, in Japanese it would be spelled with katakana characters (I've confirmed that ramu is spelled with two katakana characters). The two characters were for the "ra" and "mu" sounds, obviously. And of course even words which are spelled with kanji can be spelled with katakana. Given this, even without a grasp of the English language Kohji would likely be able to spell this Japanese word, and others, in the Latin alphabet if he simply knew that much.

Whenever creating his dying message, Kohji used a mirror, if I'm not mistaken. It had the following letters:
PUT ON MASCARA
This would be enough letters for whatever message he was trying to create, or else he would've used something other than a mirror.
What we know is that the letters PT ON were eliminated, leaving "U MASCARA".
However, before this point everyone has automatically assumed that Kohji would spell RUM as it appears in English. But what if he wrote RAMU instead? What if the actual message was "ASCA RAMU"? Obviously the ASCA would either have to be rearranged somehow or interpreted as it is (the context of this first word in the dying message is yet unknown).
Whenever Asaka saw the dying message and managed to figure it out, he/she assumed that it read "ASACA RUM", because he/she just naturally assumed that Kohji would spell Rum as in English and didn't consider the spelling difference between the two languages. Given this, Asaka thought he/she was being accused of the crime, so he/she made a run for it.

Problems with this theory:
1. It assumes that Asaka somehow knows who Rum is.
2. Again, ASCA makes no bleeping sense regardless of how it's arranged.

Thoughts?
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Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He has a very good fast draw and he's very highly proficient in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't bother trying to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland. His favorite saying is, "It is sometimes necessary to lie damnably in the interests of the nation."
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection. He joined the project approximately one year before the events of Episodes 128-129 and the two of them worked closely in developing the drug.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Spimer » August 24th, 2016, 2:41 am

Well, the only thing I can say is that Vermouth is called Wermut in Japan using the German spelling hence why Haibara didn't react when Conan read it in English because she only knew that German spelling which is how everyone calls her.

As for the whole Asaka = RUM thing I think it's pretty much clear it's true because after the case with the spiritualist Gin was commenting with Vodka about a "killing Rum screwed over 17 years ago".
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 24th, 2016, 10:07 am

Spimer wrote:As for the whole Asaka = RUM thing I think it's pretty much clear it's true because after the case with the spiritualist Gin was commenting with Vodka about a "killing Rum screwed over 17 years ago".


Gin's words only tell us that Rum was the culprit—he didn't say whether Rum had become Amanda's bodyguard and adopted the alias of "Asaka."

For me, at least, there's still too many unknowns to make a declaration, either way, in terms of who Asaka is. I choose to wait until we get more cases which reveal more about the case, and the Akais (since they're very much tied up in it).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » August 24th, 2016, 2:53 pm

1. While Haibara was in America she may not have know that the codenames used were names of alcohols and its entirely possible that as a kid she was not around that many alcoholic beverages. Its also possible that the people that watched over her only used the japanese pronunciations of the codenames, as so far all of the BO agents we know from the manga cannon seem to speak Japanese fluently.

2. A lot of alcohols in Japan, especially in this series, usually have the names in English printed somewhere on the bottles. If you look at the instances of the bottles in this series you can see labels like "Very Old FINO Sherry", " Wild Turkey Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey" and "Nyers Rum Original Dark" written in English. So it would he hard to believe that Kouji wouldn't know the english spelling of Rum.

3. Where are you getting that Asaka was there to be Kouji's translator? Asaka was supposedly there to act as Amada's bodyguard and Amanda was only there because she was a fan of Kouji.
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Filipino_4869 » August 25th, 2016, 5:51 am

Actually, there are other possible anagrams for Kohji's dying message "U MASCARA" other than your "ASCA RAMU" (crackpot) theory. That is, assuming that Conan and Subaru's ASACA=RUM deduction is incorrect (just like the Vermouth=Jodie and Rena=Not Eisuke's sister deductions/theories that turned out to be wrong later on). Some of the anagrams that I can associate with the plot are:

SACURA MA / SAKURA(KO) MA(ID)
Meaning: The killer or Rum is the maid Sakurako Yonehara. This would only be possible if there are other shards of glasses cut, which has the letters C/K, O, I, D. But it is very unlikely since the letter O is not cut from the remaining letters "P-T-O-N".

RAMU A SAC / RAMU, "A SAC"
Meaning: Rum is a sacrifice. "SAC" is a chess term, short for sacrifice, considering Kohji's chess knowledge and passion. Thought it is very unlikely because Rum is spelled as Ramu and this anagram does not help (Kohji) in identifying his murderer.

SCAR UMAA (SCAR WOMAN)
Meaning: The killer is a WOMAN (one of Rum's descriptions) with a SCAR (might be on one of her eyes, thus associated with Rum's false eye description)

CARASUMA / KARASUMA
Meaning: The culprit is the rich mansion owner Karasuma Renya. All of Rum's descriptions point to him. He is obviously an old man and he has a cane. His long hair makes him appear like a woman. He is a man with glasses (with a false eye, probably). Gosho has been making Kuroda Hyoue, Kansuke Yamato, and Wakasa Rumi apparently suspicious, but HE HAS NOT MENTIONED KARASUMA AGAIN, or direct suspicion on him).
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Spimer » August 25th, 2016, 6:51 am

But Karasuma was supposed to have died 40 years before the storyline and was an inept who was unable to find the key to the treasure he inherited, called many scholars to do so and began killing them to put urge into them but it was in vain. One of them did figure the solution but never said it because he knew he was going to be killed anyway.

A lot of people have assumed that Karasuma had some links with the BO because he uses crows as a family crest but it could be a red herring.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Filipino_4869 » August 25th, 2016, 7:10 am

Spimer wrote:But Karasuma was supposed to have died 40 years before the storyline and was an inept who was unable to find the key to the treasure he inherited, called many scholars to do so and began killing them to put urge into them but it was in vain. One of them did figure the solution but never said it because he knew he was going to be killed anyway.

A lot of people have assumed that Karasuma had some links with the BO because he uses crows as a family crest but it could be a red herring.


Yes, a lot of people have assumed that... but NOT ONLY BECAUSE he uses crows as family crest but ALSO BECAUSE his name KARASUMA being a direct anagram to U MASCARA is too much of a coincidence. Moreso, it would not be a bad idea if Gosho uses/reveals Karasuma as Kohji's killer/Rum, since it is the first time (I think) that wordplay or anagram was used by Gosho in Black Org-related mysteries.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 26th, 2016, 4:18 am

Filipino_4869 wrote:
Spimer wrote:But Karasuma was supposed to have died 40 years before the storyline and was an inept who was unable to find the key to the treasure he inherited, called many scholars to do so and began killing them to put urge into them but it was in vain. One of them did figure the solution but never said it because he knew he was going to be killed anyway.

A lot of people have assumed that Karasuma had some links with the BO because he uses crows as a family crest but it could be a red herring.


Yes, a lot of people have assumed that... but NOT ONLY BECAUSE he uses crows as family crest but ALSO BECAUSE his name KARASUMA being a direct anagram to U MASCARA is too much of a coincidence. Moreso, it would not be a bad idea if Gosho uses/reveals Karasuma as Kohji's killer/Rum, since it is the first time (I think) that wordplay or anagram was used by Gosho in Black Org-related mysteries.


It is probably just a coincidence. Him being the boss, or being tied to the BO is pretty obvious, to anyone who thinks about one-shot case characters being the boss. I just don't think he's the one.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Spimer » August 26th, 2016, 6:07 am

Also, if Gosho admitted that he forgot about Araide he could've easily forgotten Karasuma because he didn't actually appear in that case but was mentioned.

Also, why should a message written in Alphabet and having a "C" become a "K" to begin with? The "c" may be pronounced as "k", yes, but that doesn't mean one we can just change the letters of the message to get another.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Filipino_4869 » August 26th, 2016, 8:09 am

Spimer wrote:Also, if Gosho admitted that he forgot about Araide he could've easily forgotten Karasuma because he didn't actually appear in that case but was mentioned.

Also, why should a message written in Alphabet and having a "C" become a "K" to begin with? The "c" may be pronounced as "k", yes, but that doesn't mean one we can just change the letters of the message to get another.


Yeah I totally got your point. I just enumerated the theories and assumptions that a lot of people had been forming since. However, PERSONALLY, I have someone else in my mind that I really suspect as RUM -- someone that I haven't seen/noticed being mentioned here in the forums or being suspected already.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » August 26th, 2016, 10:14 am

Spimer wrote:Also, why should a message written in Alphabet and having a "C" become a "K" to begin with? The "c" may be pronounced as "k", yes, but that doesn't mean one we can just change the letters of the message to get another.


So you don't think that Asaka is mentioned in the message? The bodyguard's name had a K in it, but the message had a C, and Conan seems t be running with it.
It really saddens me to see people continuing to talk about this series as if its dying or that they are losing interest in it. This has been one of my favorite series' since I first heard of it in 2005 and I have never looked back. I really hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby k11chi » August 26th, 2016, 10:42 am

Because there was no K to use ofcourse?
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Max1996 » August 28th, 2016, 6:08 am

Filipino_4869 wrote:SACURA MA / SAKURA(KO) MA(ID)
Meaning: The killer or Rum is the maid Sakurako Yonehara. This would only be possible if there are other shards of glasses cut, which has the letters C/K, O, I, D. But it is very unlikely since the letter O is not cut from the remaining letters "P-T-O-N".


Yeah...that can't be it for 2 reasons.
1. She is female. Rum is a codename most likely assigned to male operatives.
2. There's nothing about her that would fit the other 2 descriptions of Rum ("Strong-built man" and "Old man")
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby Swagnarok » August 28th, 2016, 2:14 pm

Max1996 wrote:
Filipino_4869 wrote:SACURA MA / SAKURA(KO) MA(ID)
Meaning: The killer or Rum is the maid Sakurako Yonehara. This would only be possible if there are other shards of glasses cut, which has the letters C/K, O, I, D. But it is very unlikely since the letter O is not cut from the remaining letters "P-T-O-N".


Yeah...that can't be it for 2 reasons.
1. She is female. Rum is a codename most likely assigned to male operatives.
2. There's nothing about her that would fit the other 2 descriptions of Rum ("Strong-built man" and "Old man")


Beyond that, it simply doesn't make sense. If we are to assume that Sakurako Yonehara is Rum's true identity (and that as a child she was friends with Chiba and Naeko Miike which means she really is somewhere around 23 years old), that would mean that she killed Kohji Haneda as a 6 year old.
If we are to assume that Rum is somebody else but has recently began impersonating Sakurako, what would be his motive? It couldn't have been in order to observe Conan/Sleeping Kogoro in action because she had no way of knowing that her employers would end up getting murdered.
明智 ナンシー
"Ey, babe, I found five dollahs in the bottom of a dumpsta somewhere. Lemme treat you to some McDonald's and then we can head on over to my place, how 'bout dat?"
Spoiler:
My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He has a very good fast draw and he's very highly proficient in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't bother trying to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland. His favorite saying is, "It is sometimes necessary to lie damnably in the interests of the nation."
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection. He joined the project approximately one year before the events of Episodes 128-129 and the two of them worked closely in developing the drug.
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Re: Another Crackpot Theory on Kohji's Death

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 30th, 2016, 6:41 am

Swagnarok wrote:
Max1996 wrote:
Filipino_4869 wrote:SACURA MA / SAKURA(KO) MA(ID)
Meaning: The killer or Rum is the maid Sakurako Yonehara. This would only be possible if there are other shards of glasses cut, which has the letters C/K, O, I, D. But it is very unlikely since the letter O is not cut from the remaining letters "P-T-O-N".


Yeah...that can't be it for 2 reasons.
1. She is female. Rum is a codename most likely assigned to male operatives.
2. There's nothing about her that would fit the other 2 descriptions of Rum ("Strong-built man" and "Old man")


Beyond that, it simply doesn't make sense. If we are to assume that Sakurako Yonehara is Rum's true identity (and that as a child she was friends with Chiba and Naeko Miike which means she really is somewhere around 23 years old), that would mean that she killed Kohji Haneda as a 6 year old.
If we are to assume that Rum is somebody else but has recently began impersonating Sakurako, what would be his motive? It couldn't have been in order to observe Conan/Sleeping Kogoro in action because she had no way of knowing that her employers would end up getting murdered.


Plus, Sakurako had the chance to see Shiho/Ai during the Selfie Stick Murder (918–920/814–815).

If Rum has disguised as Sakurako, then we're in for the Vermouth arc twist all over again (Tomoaki = Vermouth; Sakurako = Rum).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)

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