Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by Kor »

Kudo Shinchi wrote:
Spoiler:
Two things (and I've bolded where I seriously disagree):

-Amuro is very far from level-headed. If anything, he is as prone to succumbing to strong emotions/ acting irrationally as someone like Heiji. This is his main character flaw (and what makes him so interesting to me). As a character, he's meant as a passionate, emotional foil to Akai's stoicism and level-headedness. We've seen over and over how Amuro lets his emotions get in the way of his deductions/plans (again, to me that tension is part of what makes him interesting). Amuro wasn't being level-headed when he smiled at Chianti, who was pointing a gun at him, just for the satisfaction of taunting her, or when he basically put getting revenge on Akai before his actual mission of infiltrating and getting promoted in the BO. Amuro being irrationally angry about Scotch's death is consistent with everything we've seen up to this point. He's a man with strong feelings and is not very good at controlling them.

-A lot of people have have misunderstood this part, so Gosho probably should have written it in a clearer manner. Basically, Amuro isn't just realizing this stuff now. He already knew from the get-go. He's only recounting it to himself for the benefit of us the readers, so we can know what his issue with Akai is. The point here is that Amuro knows that Scotch killed himself but still hates Akai anyways for failing to prevent it. Not the most sensible hatred, but considering Scotch's importance to Amuro, it makes sense. Amuro needs someone to blame, and that someone is Akai. More importantly, there is no misunderstanding here. Akai really did fail to prevent Scotch's suicide. Even if it isn't his fault, that's not going to stop Amuro from hating him, which means their whole conflict is not going to be brushed away as a "misunderstanding."
Based on bash and Fuji from the cbox, the above is actually wrong. Amuro isn't mad that Akai couldn't prevent Scotch from committing suicide, he's still mad that Akai made Scotch dead (as in, he actively wanted him to die).

So... while it seems Amuro is aware something is off, he still thinks Akai killed Scotch and didn't piece together Scotch actually killed himself. Looks like a misunderstanding to me.
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haibaralove

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by haibaralove »

Spoiler:
I have read till 956...the only question in my mind is could there be connection between Hado and Mary and also I am thinking that maybe Mary is Asaca but not Rum coz I think Rum and Asaca are different person... I would love to hear the theories if anyone feels the same way as I am!!!and is there anything unusual in drivers license of him???...coz I can't read Japanese...I hope not...like the one found in shukichi marriage registration form???
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Spimer
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by Spimer »

@haibaralove:
Spoiler:
No, there's nothing out of place in the license. Just that Hado apparently used contacts.
Also, in case you'd missed it, there's the text spoilers for file 957.
ASACA = Asa (morning) Ca(fe) = Morning Cafe. It's a combination of both words.
So he actually had nothing to do with Haneda and the name was a pure coincidence.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by haibaralove »

@Spimer:
Spoiler:
Thanks for reply and clearing doubts :) ... Quite vague was my theory ;D
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Spimer
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by Spimer »

@haibaralove:
Spoiler:
It's nothing. Not like I expected this wordplay before seeing the spoilers yesterday but I had the feeling that Rokumichi was unrelated and the name ASACA was a coincidence.
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ATEM

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by ATEM »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Kudo Shinchi wrote:
Spoiler:
Two things (and I've bolded where I seriously disagree):

-Amuro is very far from level-headed. If anything, he is as prone to succumbing to strong emotions/ acting irrationally as someone like Heiji. This is his main character flaw (and what makes him so interesting to me). As a character, he's meant as a passionate, emotional foil to Akai's stoicism and level-headedness. We've seen over and over how Amuro lets his emotions get in the way of his deductions/plans (again, to me that tension is part of what makes him interesting). Amuro wasn't being level-headed when he smiled at Chianti, who was pointing a gun at him, just for the satisfaction of taunting her, or when he basically put getting revenge on Akai before his actual mission of infiltrating and getting promoted in the BO. Amuro being irrationally angry about Scotch's death is consistent with everything we've seen up to this point. He's a man with strong feelings and is not very good at controlling them.

-A lot of people have have misunderstood this part, so Gosho probably should have written it in a clearer manner. Basically, Amuro isn't just realizing this stuff now. He already knew from the get-go. He's only recounting it to himself for the benefit of us the readers, so we can know what his issue with Akai is. The point here is that Amuro knows that Scotch killed himself but still hates Akai anyways for failing to prevent it. Not the most sensible hatred, but considering Scotch's importance to Amuro, it makes sense. Amuro needs someone to blame, and that someone is Akai. More importantly, there is no misunderstanding here. Akai really did fail to prevent Scotch's suicide. Even if it isn't his fault, that's not going to stop Amuro from hating him, which means their whole conflict is not going to be brushed away as a "misunderstanding."
Spoiler:
Rei's/Tooru's anger at Shuichi is just increasingly magnified, here, compared to Shiho's/Ai's Shinichi/Conan in 181/129 over Akemi's death—both Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi failed to prevent the deaths of Akemi and Scotch. Rei/Tooru has just taken it to a level I don't think Shiho/Ai even began to consider.

One of my previous posts said that this situation was a misunderstanding—I must admit that said post is incorrect. This was NOT a misunderstanding.

Anyone who also made a post saying that this was a misunderstanding—do you stick by your initial claim that the Bourbon arc is based on a misunderstanding?
Spoiler:
if amuro's thoughts won't be more clarified later on it seems a misunderstanding to me haibara knows that shinich tried to protect akemi and failed she blamed him for his failure but from amuro's words he doesn't even know that scotch wanted to commit suicide and akai was trying to prevent him from doing so but he forced him to and akai made it even worse by his words that he punished a traitor and so on maybe it was scotch's wish for him to take the credit or whatever reason but amuro is blaming akai for forcing amuro to commit suicide not for his unability to protect him
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

Kor wrote:
Kudo Shinchi wrote:
Spoiler:
Two things (and I've bolded where I seriously disagree):

-Amuro is very far from level-headed. If anything, he is as prone to succumbing to strong emotions/ acting irrationally as someone like Heiji. This is his main character flaw (and what makes him so interesting to me). As a character, he's meant as a passionate, emotional foil to Akai's stoicism and level-headedness. We've seen over and over how Amuro lets his emotions get in the way of his deductions/plans (again, to me that tension is part of what makes him interesting). Amuro wasn't being level-headed when he smiled at Chianti, who was pointing a gun at him, just for the satisfaction of taunting her, or when he basically put getting revenge on Akai before his actual mission of infiltrating and getting promoted in the BO. Amuro being irrationally angry about Scotch's death is consistent with everything we've seen up to this point. He's a man with strong feelings and is not very good at controlling them.

-A lot of people have have misunderstood this part, so Gosho probably should have written it in a clearer manner. Basically, Amuro isn't just realizing this stuff now. He already knew from the get-go. He's only recounting it to himself for the benefit of us the readers, so we can know what his issue with Akai is. The point here is that Amuro knows that Scotch killed himself but still hates Akai anyways for failing to prevent it. Not the most sensible hatred, but considering Scotch's importance to Amuro, it makes sense. Amuro needs someone to blame, and that someone is Akai. More importantly, there is no misunderstanding here. Akai really did fail to prevent Scotch's suicide. Even if it isn't his fault, that's not going to stop Amuro from hating him, which means their whole conflict is not going to be brushed away as a "misunderstanding."
Based on bash and Fuji from the cbox, the above is actually wrong. Amuro isn't mad that Akai couldn't prevent Scotch from committing suicide, he's still mad that Akai made Scotch dead (as in, he actively wanted him to die).

So... while it seems Amuro is aware something is off, he still thinks Akai killed Scotch and didn't piece together Scotch actually killed himself. Looks like a misunderstanding to me.
Ah, looks like that is indeed the case. My mistake.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Kor wrote:Based on bash and Fuji from the cbox, the above is actually wrong. Amuro isn't mad that Akai couldn't prevent Scotch from committing suicide, he's still mad that Akai made Scotch dead (as in, he actively wanted him to die).

So... while it seems Amuro is aware something is off, he still thinks Akai killed Scotch and didn't piece together Scotch actually killed himself. Looks like a misunderstanding to me.
Eh, I don't know... still sounds to me that Rei/Tooru just has a more extreme case of what Shiho/Ai had in 181/129, if not in straight-up denial.

And even if the sentence I just wrote is utterly wrong, in your view, I still think Rei/Tooru would hold a grudge. He'd still blame Shuichi even if this is a misunderstanding that would eventually be cleared up.

Point is, it's either, "Akai forced Scotch into suicide... that bastard...!", or "Akai let Scotch die... that bastard...!"

(And if Gosho goes and has the clearing up of the misunderstanding, if it is just that, end the grudge, or something like that, you won't even need to find this post and quote it back at me—I'll find it, myself, and declare that I was utterly incorrect)

EDIT:
957 Spoiler Pics are out:
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4489113649
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by AkaiSch »

When a man in black appears, Gosho shows someone who's related to him right after :
-Gin/Vodka-->Shinichi
-Vermouth-->Ai/Sherry
-Kir--> His brother ?
-Bourbon-->Akai
-Rum--> Scotch?
In my opinon Scotch was discovered by Rum and he had to kill himsel or at least, tell Akai to do it. He shot his phone to not be discovered because he was maybe related to a man in black..or to the Akai family because he really look like Haneda/ Akai
Talking about Asaca: Asaca isn't Rum. But Asaca is related to Rum. Asaca must know the real identity of RUM. When you see the message left by Koji, it sounds like there's a relation between Rum and Asaca rather than RUM=Asaca. There's something strange in that case of Koji and Amanda, the scene takes place in the US so, a man in black was in the US : Back in the story, only Akai and his family, Vermouth were seen in the US. So in my opinion RUM was in relation with the Akai family and Vermouth. So maybe, Koji was an agent related to the Akai family. But, i think that Koji has got a relative in common with Haneda, Sera and Schuichi : maybe they have tes same father or the same mother...And that common "father" or "mother" is RUM i think. And for me, Kuroda is the father if Akai...Same skin color, and Scar Akai had the same face as Kuroda...Asaca is Mary because it was said that "Asaca disapeared" after the Koji killing, RUM gave her the APTX. These are just elements of my current theory
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

AkaiSch wrote:and Scar Akai had the same face as Kuroda...
Scar Akai was Bourbon / Vermouth though, so their similarity, if any, means nothing
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by AkaiSch »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
AkaiSch wrote:and Scar Akai had the same face as Kuroda...
Scar Akai was Bourbon / Vermouth though, so their similarity, if any, means nothing
I'm saying that the mask was built the same way as the scar that Kuroda has got (I'm sorry i'm french so my english isn't very good aha"
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by rfsuki »

Spoiler:
From the dialogue translation by presumenothing on Tumblr, Amuro is pretty sure that Subaru is Akai at this point, but he can't point this out right away because he is with Vermouth. But what will happen after this? Will Amuro let Akai continue staying at Shinichi's house? And will Akai be forced to tell Amuro the whole truth to resolve the misunderstanding?
Last edited by rfsuki on April 18th, 2016, 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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AICHAN
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by AICHAN »

rfsuki wrote:
Spoiler:
From the dialogue translation by presumenothing on Tumblr, Amuro is pretty sure that Subaru is Akai at this point, but he can't point this out right away because he is with Vermouth. But what will happen after this? Will Amuro let Akai to continue staying at Shinichi's house? And will Akai be forced to tell Amuro the whole truth to resolve the misunderstanding?
Spoiler:
I guess Akai will have to tell the truth, Amuro will probably put him in a dangerous situation or use someone he cares about as a bait.
That would be the only way for Akai to keep his Okiya's identity. He still has to keep the promise he made to Akemi after all...
Last edited by AICHAN on April 18th, 2016, 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Spoiler:
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by ATEM »

AICHAN wrote:
rfsuki wrote:
Spoiler:
From the dialogue translation by presumenothing on Tumblr, Amuro is pretty sure that Subaru is Akai at this point, but he can't point this out right away because he is with Vermouth. But what will happen after this? Will Amuro let Akai to continue staying at Shinichi's house? And will Akai be forced to tell Amuro the whole truth to resolve the misunderstanding?
Spoiler:
I guess Akai will have to tell the truth, Amuro will probably put him in a dangerous situation or use someone he cares about as a bait.
That would be the only way for Akai to keep his Okiya's identity. He still has to keep the promise he made to Akemi after all...
Spoiler:
is it that easy ?! From amuro's hatred he won't believe a word from that and from akai's personality he will never explain himself even if he was killed .. I wonder how gosho will be able to resolve such a situation and how it benfits the plot
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 954-957

Post by rfsuki »

ATEM wrote:
Spoiler:
is it that easy ?! From amuro's hatred he won't believe a word from that and from akai's personality he will never explain himself even if he was killed .. I wonder how gosho will be able to resolve such a situation and how it benfits the plot
I have the same thought as you. Wonder how Gosho will resolve this.
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