Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Spimer » March 23rd, 2016, 7:55 pm

@jimmy_kud0_tv2:
Spoiler:
This is my interpreation yet... I think that the MG means that she knows that Conan = Shinichi yet maybe she expected him to be different than he actually is. Or maybe her paranoia and mistrust gets in the way and she considers him a danger to herself.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Themaninarmor » March 24th, 2016, 10:57 am

Just another random theory
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Spoiler:
The new issues that arise is how Asaka got that mirror after someone else went to Kohji's room and had time to look over and photograph the crime scene. It could have been Asaka's mirror to begin with (so he was seen with it before the crime), but Haibara seemed to think is was Haneda's, keeping in mind that Elena nee Sera had one of those mirrors also and that the Hanedas and Seras seem to be close. I assume Asaka took the mirror in order to hide the dying message, and he was seen with it fleeing. For the photos to exist and Kohji to leave a message, Asaka must have lost control of the situation somehow. Was he distracted, or people forced their way in, or he was forced away from the scene?


Spoiler:
i think hotta gaito had seen asaka with the mirror before the crime ocurred. After that someone "maybe RUM" killed haneda. Left the crime scene but after that someone came in and took the picture of crime scene. Voila.....

And for Asaka, What @nemomon said make me wonder if asaka is BO member, why kohji know who he is even the nickname "RUM" and he/she could kill amanda anytime, but he/she choosed the time when Amanda in the same hotel with haneda.
So i think asaka isn't the BO member and the reason she/he disappear because he was being accused as the kohji killer.
So he took the photo of the crime scene and posting it in internet.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Misztina » March 24th, 2016, 4:45 pm

Spimer wrote:@jimmy_kud0_tv2:
Spoiler:
This is my interpreation yet... I think that the MG means that she knows that Conan = Shinichi yet maybe she expected him to be different than he actually is. Or maybe her paranoia and mistrust gets in the way and she considers him a danger to herself.

Spoiler:
Conan himself is dangerous, because he is intelligent, he has very good gadgets, can easily manipulate & imitate people aaand of course he met the BO, survived and unlike other victims like Haibara and possibly(?) Sera's mom, he goes after the BO & takes numerous risks that a person who knows the BO even the slightest wouldn't dare to do. Plus, Conan attracts attention. Yukiko's son without a doubt. ;D

But it was interesting to see both Gin and Sera's mom using the same phrase. She might be Elena's sis. Hmm... Woops. Wondered on theory-land again.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby haibaralove » March 25th, 2016, 2:22 am

Spoiler:
I am concerned about last line what Gin says....kogoro is again in big trouble ;D ... Finally we know that she is akai's mom....About Rum....I don't think Mary is Rum!!!
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby irishock » March 25th, 2016, 12:38 pm

Spoiler:
I'm about as sure Mary=Rum as I was Jodie=Vermouth, Okiya=Bourbon, etc.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 25th, 2016, 1:16 pm

Here's My DC FILE 953 Review/Discussion!
Spoiler:
Case Discussion:


So we finally find out what the trick was that Fukuri used. I wasn't far off with my deduction but there still was a handful of differences, as usual. It was interesting to see a unique way of tilting glass without making it fall(makes me wonder where Gosho finds all these interesting techniques). The one trick that did disappoint me was the fact that a string was used in the case of the "suspicious movement" mystery(below). It's not that it didn't make sense, but rather that it was too simple and repetitive. I was expecting a more extravagant approach to that trick after Sera mentioned the wind, so I neglected easier solutions similar to FILE 129 or FILE 186. The most accurate comparison to this trick is the one used in Detective Conan vs Kindaichi Crossover Game(below), which was the one I hoped this trick wasn't like.

ImageImageImage


Plot Discussion:


Mary("Sister Outside The Domain")

We finally got the confirmation to the theory that has been spreading through out the DC fandom. This was Gosho's definite way of officially revealing that Mary("sister outside of the domain") is indeed Sera Masumi's, and Akai Shuichi's, mother! it was a rather simplistic way of revealing it, but it did Sera a disservice, since it portrayed her character as rather sloppy when she is in a bind(not that this is the first time).

Image

An unexpected semi-confirmation was to the semi-popular theory that Mary worked with the secret service(SIS/MI6). This has been hinted at a couple of times, but those hints where quite vague. One time was when she was inspecting Conan's gadget in a manner that of an experienced agent(who possessed gadgets) during her first appearance(below). Bourbon made it quite clear that MI6 would be surprised by Agasa's inventions(below), which was similar to Mary's reaction. The second one was the more vague one that happened in the previous chapter(FILE 952), where Mary showed signs of having an "athletic" body, following to the strongest hint so far, from this chapter, where she made the suspect unconscious(below). This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).

ImageImageImage

Asaka and Rum

We just got new info regarding the bodyguard of Amanda hughes, Asaka. Sera heard that Hotta Gaito had gotten the information of Asaka being witnessed holding a hand-mirror. This information gives us more clarity regarding Haneda Kouji's case and what could've transpired. We know from the previous case that haneda Kouji left a dying message, which Conan assumes is read "Asaca=Rum", and that he cut the letters forming that message from a hand-mirror. Haibara assumed that it probably belonged to Kouji, since shogi players cares for their look, even though it's normally used by women(like Elena and Akemi). This new information possibly indicates that it could've belonged to Asaka, and that it was dropped during his confrontation with Kouji, while attempting to kill him, indicating even further that Asaka was the murderer. Another possible indication is that it was removed from the crime scene by Asaka, soon after the photograph of the murder scene was taken, but one thing is certain, the photographs of the dying message/hand-mirror was never meant to be taken, and therefore leading to BO trying to cover it up by deleting the posts and photos regarding that case. This is confirmed by the fact that Gin mentions that Rum made a mistake seventeen years ago(below), which also further finalizes the assumption of Asaka, our murder suspect, being Rum.

ImageImage

Another interesting information we got is that Hotta Gaito thinks that Asaka is a woman. If Asaka is Rum, which at the moment seems highly likely, then that means it will contradict the code-naming pattern of alcohols that Gosho has been using for males and females so far. Rum was assumed to be male because of that pattern, and though it's unusual, it's still possible for him to break it, if Gosho decides to take more inspiration from Urusei Yatsura's Lum. But since Hotta Gaito has the information of the hand-mirror, it's very likely that it was just an assumption on Hotta's part, since the hand-mirrors are usually used by women. Mary's reaction to that seemed quite indifferent(below), as if it was facts that was either already known or already neglected. Her suspicious comment from last chapter about "they" appearing is giving rise to the possibility that she is running away/hiding from someone and that it might be related to the Haneda Kouji case(hence their reaction last chapter). If they were Running from Rum/Asaka, the suspect for Kouji's case, then it's highly likely that Mary might possess additional information regarding Rum/Asaka, and therefore possibly knowing the gender. If her reaction to Sera implied that she neglected the idea of Rum being female, then that further supports Gosho's naming pattern, as well as the other descriptions of Rum being a "feminine", "old" and/or "strong" man. As mentioned in my previous review, it is looking like Mary and Sera are the ones posting and uploading information regarding the Haneda kouji case, in hopes of finding more info.

Image

To summarize the information we have regarding Asaka, we can pretty much assume that he's/she's definitely Rum, the murderer of Haneda Kouji, and that he made the mistake of letting Kouji leave a dying message about his killer through a hand-mirror, whether it belonged to Asaka or not. The information we have of Rum is limited, but from the descriptions we have gotten, majority of them fits well with the picture(below, assuming it wasn't a disguise) and indications we've gotten of Asaka. Asaka has feminine hairstyle, he/she possess physical strength enough to become a bodyguard and he/she has to be old by now, 17 years later. The only thing that is yet to be explained is the artificial eye.

Image

One question remains, who is Rum/Asaka? I'll go through some of the ongoing theories of Rum:

Kuroda Hyoue

The most unsettling question regarding this character is his past. We know that he was in an accident that took his right eye 10 years ago. If he looked more like more like Asaka, 17 years ago, then all of his characteristics fits well with Rum's profile. But here comes the problem, not only was he the obvious suspect(like a red-herring), but his whole past is fuzzy because of the coma he was in and the change that transpired with him. He has been acting like he doesn't remember details of his past and during his coma, his hair colour changed drastically from black to white. these points of his background is what opens a vast room for possibilities, among them being that he was swapped by someone else during his coma. We know that he worked with the NPA before, so if he is indeed Rum, it implies that Rum had infiltrated the NPA before his accident. But, if a change has occurred with the current Kuroda, is he still Rum? was he switched by someone else? is Kuroda a stolen identity by Rum?... so far, it is more likely that he is not Rum. Evidence to that was Haibara's lack of response to his presence(since she can sense the BO presence), and another is Kuroda's lack of response to seeing Sherry.

Image

Mr. Akai ("Kiritake"?)

So far, he looks like a plausible Rum candidate. Akai mentioned that his father was involved in the Haneda Kouji case, though he didn't specify how. How much Akai knows of his father's involvement is still unknown, and if he was in the impression that his father was the victim, rather than the assailant, it is still possible that after he fulfilled his BO mission, he disguised his own death as if he was a victim as well(which lead to Akai wanting to avenge his father and joining the FBI). Gosho's answer to the question "is the Akai father dead?" was quite ambiguous: "Unfortunately he's already,.... it's a secret". As far as looks goes, he could fit majority of the descriptions of Asaka/Rum as well, seeing as his son Shuichi grew long hair(below), he could have inherited it from his father and therefore being mistaken for a woman/feminine, just like his daughter Masumi is mistaken for a guy. He should be quite old as well, if he's still alive. Because of the lack of information regarding him, it's hard to say for certain what his involvement in the Kouji case was. We know that he didn't work for the FBI but he could have also been a private detective/CIA who, with James Black's/Amanda Hughes' request, investigated "Asaka" and was later killed by Rum. If Asaka/Rum took the hand-mirror from the murder scene before the police arrived, then the one who took the photographs could've been Akai's father and the photos could have been forwarded to James/Mary before he was silenced, which further explains how they were able to get photos of Kouji's case and post it(unless the police already took photos of it), assuming Mary and Sera posted them.

Image

Karasuma Renya:

This theory is a pretty unique one, since it brings back an old, seemingly unrelated, mentioned character. In this theory, it brings back the importance of the APTX4869/SB("Silver Bullet") effect, since we are talking about a suspect that was 99 years old before he was presumed dead. Karasuma Renya died 40 years ago. During that time, Elena and Atsushi were barely adults, assuming they were between 25-35 when they died, so no SB project was in the progress. But, if we take to consideration these two things:
- File 189, Haibara says that the BO project is 50 years old(below).
- File 434, Vermouth saying that Sherry's parent's took over the research(below).(translations might not be accurate)
It implies that the research started 10 years prior to Karasuma's death and long before Sherry's parents started working with SB project, which is enough time to make a prototype that gives similar shrinking side effects to APTX. This could also give new meaning to Kouji's dying message("CARASUMA") or the name "Asaka". If Rum used the alias "Asaka" from the subtraction with "Rum" of his name "Karasuma", then Haneda kouji's message can give out "Asaca" and "Rum", even when "Carasuma" was the original message(Which means, Haneda kouji really didn't know about BO or Asaka's codename). His name itself also connects him to the whole theme the BO is going with, "karasu" meaning "crow"(which could've been intentionally planted by Gosho).

ImageImageImage

Gin and Kogoro

Gin's suspicion of Kogoro started all the way since the start of the Kir arc. After he realized that Kir was bugged(File 503), with the same listening device that he suspected Sherry used(File 238), he suspected Kogoro, who Kir met before being bugged, to be affiliated with Sherry somehow, since they both used the same device(below). After Akai was able to mislead their suspicion, Gin was never satisfied and still held Kogoro under suspicion(below). This is the first time, since then, where Gin once again recognises Kogoro as a danger(hence calling him a "demon")(below) because of his not-so-coincidental involvement in Haneda Kouji's case(according to Gin). If Gin is already suspecting that the "sly fox" in the Itakura case(File 383) was Kogoro(because of his prior involvement in his murder case)(below), then that means his current suspicion could be strong enough to actually execute plan to get rid of "sleeping Kogoro" for good. We will have to wait and see what File 954 has in store.

ImageImageImageImage
Last edited by MeiTanteixX on March 25th, 2016, 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Serinox » March 25th, 2016, 1:53 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spoiler:
An unexpected semi-confirmation was to the semi-popular theory that [b]Mary worked with the secret service(SIS/MI6). This has been hinted at a couple of times, but those hints where quite vague. One time was when she was inspecting Conan's gadget in a manner that of an experienced agent(who possessed gadgets) during her first appearance(below). Bourbon made it quite clear that MI6 would be surprised by Agasa's inventions(below), which was similar to Mary's reaction. The second one was the more vague one that happened in the previous chapter(FILE 952), where Mary showed signs of having an "athletic" body, following to the strongest hint so far, from this chapter, where she made the suspect unconscious(below). This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).
[/img]

Spoiler:
This is a bit incorrect. If I'm not mistaken, the word Conan used when he desribed the technique was "シークレットサービス" which is generally used in Japanese to refer to the United States Secret Service, who are in charge of protecting the US president. The term used for Secret Intelligence Service (SIS aka MI6) is "秘密情報部". You could still argue it's a false lead like Sonoko calling Masumis table manners "american", while she was in reality using European table manners, but still, the SIS isn't mentioned here by Conan.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 25th, 2016, 2:08 pm

Serinox wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spoiler:
An unexpected semi-confirmation was to the semi-popular theory that [b]Mary worked with the secret service(SIS/MI6). This has been hinted at a couple of times, but those hints where quite vague. One time was when she was inspecting Conan's gadget in a manner that of an experienced agent(who possessed gadgets) during her first appearance(below). Bourbon made it quite clear that MI6 would be surprised by Agasa's inventions(below), which was similar to Mary's reaction. The second one was the more vague one that happened in the previous chapter(FILE 952), where Mary showed signs of having an "athletic" body, following to the strongest hint so far, from this chapter, where she made the suspect unconscious(below). This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).
[/img]

Spoiler:
This is a bit incorrect. If I'm not mistaken, the word Conan used when he desribed the technique was "シークレットサービス" which is generally used in Japanese to refer to the United States Secret Service, who are in charge of protecting the US president. The term used for Secret Intelligence Service (SIS aka MI6) is "秘密情報部". You could still argue it's a false lead like Sonoko calling Masumis table manners "american", while she was in reality using European table manners, but still, the SIS isn't mentioned here by Conan.

Spoiler:
ok, thanks for the correction. We'll see what she turns out to be eventually :P
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
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Kor
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Kor » March 25th, 2016, 2:39 pm

This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).


1) That sentence was never written in English. How or why would Gosho expect any of his readers to be able to reach such an incredibly meta solution without giving them the clue that the English language is part of it?
2) What about the part that she's the "younger/little sister..."? How does that fit into your solution?
3) If she doesn't trust Conan, why would she give him a riddle that tells him her affiliation?

As far as looks goes, he could fit majority of the descriptions of Asaka/Rum as well, seeing as his son Shuichi grew long hair(below), he could have inherited it from his father and therefore being mistaken for a woman/feminine, just like his daughter Masumi is mistaken for a guy.


Growing your hair long isn't something you inherit. It's a natural thing for humans.

This theory is a pretty unique one, since it brings back an old, seemingly unrelated, mentioned character. In this theory, it brings back the importance of the APTX4869/SB("Silver Bullet") effect, since we are talking about a suspect that was 99 years old before he was presumed dead. Karasuma Renya died 40 years ago. During that time, Elena and Atsushi were barely adults, assuming they were between 25-35 when they died, so no SB project was in the progress. But, if we take to consideration these two things:
- File 189, Haibara says that the BO project is 50 years old(below).
- File 434, Vermouth saying that Sherry's parent's took over the research(below).(translations might not be accurate)
It implies that the research started 10 years prior to Karasuma's death and long before Sherry's parents started working with SB project, which is enough time to make a prototype that gives similar shrinking side effects to APTX. This could also give new meaning to Kouji's dying message("CARASUMA") or the name "Asaka". If Rum used the alias "Asaka" from the subtraction with "Rum" of his name "Karasuma", then Haneda kouji's message can give out "Asaca" and "Rum", even when "Carasuma" was the original message(Which means, Haneda kouji really didn't know about BO or Asaka's codename). His name itself also connects him to the whole theme the BO is going with, "karasu" meaning "crow"(which could've been intentionally planted by Gosho).


Putting aside that it's a name from over 600 files ago, the name Karasuma was also never written in English in the manga, so once again, would he really expect his Japanese readers to put (foreign) 2 + (ancient) 2 together?
Also, we don't know for sure when Karasuma died.
Senma claims that Karasuma died at some point after that (between 40 years ago (when the father was hired) and 20 years ago (when she found the clue in his letters)).
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby MeiTanteixX » March 25th, 2016, 3:28 pm

Kor wrote:
This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).


1) That sentence was never written in English. How or why would Gosho expect any of his readers to be able to reach such an incredibly meta solution without giving them the clue that the English language is part of it?
2) What about the part that she's the "younger/little sister..."? How does that fit into your solution?
3) If she doesn't trust Conan, why would she give him a riddle that tells him her affiliation?

As far as looks goes, he could fit majority of the descriptions of Asaka/Rum as well, seeing as his son Shuichi grew long hair(below), he could have inherited it from his father and therefore being mistaken for a woman/feminine, just like his daughter Masumi is mistaken for a guy.


Growing your hair long isn't something you inherit. It's a natural thing for humans.

This theory is a pretty unique one, since it brings back an old, seemingly unrelated, mentioned character. In this theory, it brings back the importance of the APTX4869/SB("Silver Bullet") effect, since we are talking about a suspect that was 99 years old before he was presumed dead. Karasuma Renya died 40 years ago. During that time, Elena and Atsushi were barely adults, assuming they were between 25-35 when they died, so no SB project was in the progress. But, if we take to consideration these two things:
- File 189, Haibara says that the BO project is 50 years old(below).
- File 434, Vermouth saying that Sherry's parent's took over the research(below).(translations might not be accurate)
It implies that the research started 10 years prior to Karasuma's death and long before Sherry's parents started working with SB project, which is enough time to make a prototype that gives similar shrinking side effects to APTX. This could also give new meaning to Kouji's dying message("CARASUMA") or the name "Asaka". If Rum used the alias "Asaka" from the subtraction with "Rum" of his name "Karasuma", then Haneda kouji's message can give out "Asaca" and "Rum", even when "Carasuma" was the original message(Which means, Haneda kouji really didn't know about BO or Asaka's codename). His name itself also connects him to the whole theme the BO is going with, "karasu" meaning "crow"(which could've been intentionally planted by Gosho).


Putting aside that it's a name from over 600 files ago, the name Karasuma was also never written in English in the manga, so once again, would he really expect his Japanese readers to put (foreign) 2 + (ancient) 2 together?
Also, we don't know for sure when Karasuma died.
Senma claims that Karasuma died at some point after that (between 40 years ago (when the father was hired) and 20 years ago (when she found the clue in his letters)).

It could have been a test to see if his intellect was good enough for him to at the very least be considered an helpful ally. As for the that japanese statement, we will have to see if the English language because important later on. Also, it could be a double meaning where in Japanese, the little sister outside the domain refers to her being a another form of family to Sera(if "your" was directed to Sera) or a new fellow APTX-victim(if "your" was directed to Conan), while in English it gives the already mentioned meaning.

Not everyone can grow they hair in a similar style or length. It's still genetic in terms of the growth limit.

Yes, it's still possible that he planted that code within a code in order for it to later play a role as a plot device! It serves as a perfect twist if all of his readers(not just the Japanese, even though his main focus is the japanese) if he can surprise them. Besides, Asaka is originally a japanese name, so by that line of thought, it should help considering other japanese names in english when solving it. Karasuma dying later than 40 years ago works even better in favor of him possibly shrinking, whether it's through SB or an earlier prototype.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
bash7353

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby bash7353 » March 25th, 2016, 4:07 pm

Serinox wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spoiler:
An unexpected semi-confirmation was to the semi-popular theory that [b]Mary worked with the secret service(SIS/MI6). This has been hinted at a couple of times, but those hints where quite vague. One time was when she was inspecting Conan's gadget in a manner that of an experienced agent(who possessed gadgets) during her first appearance(below). Bourbon made it quite clear that MI6 would be surprised by Agasa's inventions(below), which was similar to Mary's reaction. The second one was the more vague one that happened in the previous chapter(FILE 952), where Mary showed signs of having an "athletic" body, following to the strongest hint so far, from this chapter, where she made the suspect unconscious(below). This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).
[/img]

Spoiler:
This is a bit incorrect. If I'm not mistaken, the word Conan used when he desribed the technique was "シークレットサービス" which is generally used in Japanese to refer to the United States Secret Service, who are in charge of protecting the US president. The term used for Secret Intelligence Service (SIS aka MI6) is "秘密情報部". You could still argue it's a false lead like Sonoko calling Masumis table manners "american", while she was in reality using European table manners, but still, the SIS isn't mentioned here by Conan.


There is no suggestion that the Mystery Girl has worked for the US government. シークレットサービス refers to an agency that is tasked with protecting an individual in general, not only to the agency in the US that's responsible for protecting politicians specifically. I suppose that in the US 'Secret Service' usually refers to the US Secret Service, but even in English, Secret Service can be used as an umbrella term for all things intelligence.

When Conan compares what the girl has done to what a professional bodyguard would do, it is clearly meant as a reference to how fast she neutralised him. Conan never thinks about the specific technique used, after all he didn't even see her knock him out. He only notices that she precisely hit a weak spot, but that was sentence earlier. It would be a big leap for Conan to assign a specific nationality to that.
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Serinox
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Serinox » March 25th, 2016, 4:50 pm

bash7353 wrote:
Serinox wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
Spoiler:
An unexpected semi-confirmation was to the semi-popular theory that [b]Mary worked with the secret service(SIS/MI6). This has been hinted at a couple of times, but those hints where quite vague. One time was when she was inspecting Conan's gadget in a manner that of an experienced agent(who possessed gadgets) during her first appearance(below). Bourbon made it quite clear that MI6 would be surprised by Agasa's inventions(below), which was similar to Mary's reaction. The second one was the more vague one that happened in the previous chapter(FILE 952), where Mary showed signs of having an "athletic" body, following to the strongest hint so far, from this chapter, where she made the suspect unconscious(below). This strong indication of her being a former SIS(MI6) agent further supports the theory regarding the meaning behind the "Sister Outside The Domain" statement, that she's from the SIS-TERritory who's outside Brittain(her domain).
[/img]

Spoiler:
This is a bit incorrect. If I'm not mistaken, the word Conan used when he desribed the technique was "シークレットサービス" which is generally used in Japanese to refer to the United States Secret Service, who are in charge of protecting the US president. The term used for Secret Intelligence Service (SIS aka MI6) is "秘密情報部". You could still argue it's a false lead like Sonoko calling Masumis table manners "american", while she was in reality using European table manners, but still, the SIS isn't mentioned here by Conan.


There is no suggestion that the Mystery Girl has worked for the US government. シークレットサービス refers to an agency that is tasked with protecting an individual in general, not only to the agency in the US that's responsible for protecting politicians specifically. I suppose that in the US 'Secret Service' usually refers to the US Secret Service, but even in English, Secret Service can be used as an umbrella term for all things intelligence.

When Conan compares what the girl has done to what a professional bodyguard would do, it is clearly meant as a reference to how fast she neutralised him. Conan never thinks about the specific technique used, after all he didn't even see her knock him out. He only notices that she precisely hit a weak spot, but that was sentence earlier. It would be a big leap for Conan to assign a specific nationality to that.

No, the umbrella term for all things intelligence is "Intelligence Agency" in English, but I don't recall the term "Secret Service" being common for that purpose. That's more of an umbrella term for services like the US Secret Service or the equivalent in other nations.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » March 25th, 2016, 8:21 pm

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:also Shinichi is 16


Yeah, I have the anime age ingrained, so that's what's with me saying he's 7. :-[

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Some copypasta from DCW


So you've been going on DCW? (Thing is, my anti-virus software has blocked the site for me, so thanks for posting your thoughts, here.)

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:I think I have Gosho's plan figured out now. We are going to have 3 Rum cases. Rum Case #1 is stars girly Rum. Next case we run into with Rum, maybe another flashback, a witness is going to come out and have a completely different idea, like he's a geezer. Then case 3, strong dude.

If it is the same mirror, that raises even more questions than two separate mirrors. We already know the case is weird because Kohji managed to have the time to turn on a sink, grab scissors, and then cut a mirror to leave a dying message (not to mention how he overheard some conversation about Asaka and Rum). If Kohji was in a similar situation to the victim from the latest cut glass case, then he must have known death was coming, so I guess he was cornered and knew it.

The new issues that arise is how Asaka got that mirror after someone else went to Kohji's room and had time to look over and photograph the crime scene. It could have been Asaka's mirror to begin with (so he was seen with it before the crime), but Haibara seemed to think is was Haneda's, keeping in mind that Elena nee Sera had one of those mirrors also and that the Hanedas and Seras seem to be close. I assume Asaka took the mirror in order to hide the dying message, and he was seen with it fleeing. For the photos to exist and Kohji to leave a message, Asaka must have lost control of the situation somehow. Was he distracted, or people forced their way in, or he was forced away from the scene? All I can think of is that this may be the situation that cost Rum his eye (assuming he is Asaka). Kohji inflicted the wound in desperation and bought himself some time to leave a message.


At least the broad strokes of it.

If his dying message is "ASAKA RUM," then he would had to have known beforehand about the Organization, as I doubt Koji just happened to hear the name, just moments before he was killed, since it's very unlikely the word "Rum" would've be shouted by either Amanda or Asaka. Perhaps he heard it in an earlier conversation between Asaka and someone else.

If Koji is why Rum lost an eye, then he must've wiped his blood off of the scissors—else, he'd be ID'd.

irishock wrote:
Spoiler:
I'm about as sure Mary=Rum as I was Jodie=Vermouth, Okiya=Bourbon, etc.


Spoiler:
So you saw through the original, huh?


Kor wrote:Putting aside that it's a name from over 600 files ago, the name Karasuma was also never written in English in the manga, so once again, would he really expect his Japanese readers to put (foreign) 2 + (ancient) 2 together?
Also, we don't know for sure when Karasuma died.
Senma claims that Karasuma died at some point after that (between 40 years ago (when the father was hired) and 20 years ago (when she found the clue in his letters)).


If it's just a coincidence, then it's quite the coincidence.

From both Episode 219 and File 300:

Anime

http://imgur.com/8hoxzfj

http://imgur.com/u31it6g

http://imgur.com/8Lw4Jfm

Manga (Not the best translation, of course.)
http://imgur.com/zn9pPPD

Serinox wrote:No, the umbrella term for all things intelligence is "Intelligence Agency" in English, but I don't recall the term "Secret Service" being common for that purpose. That's more of an umbrella term for services like the US Secret Service or the equivalent in other nations.


When I saw "Secret Service," I instantly thought of the US Secret Service, but Mary is likely British. However, we don't know if Mary, like James, was merely born in Britain and then ended up in America, before going back, at some point.

Requirements to become a Secret Service agent:

www.chcoc.gov via en.wikipedia.org wrote:At a minimum, a prospective agent must be a U.S. citizen, possess a current valid driver's license, possess visual acuity no worse than 20/60 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 in each eye, and be between the ages of 21 and 37 at the time of appointment.


As far as I can tell, Mary could've simply been a naturalized U.S. citizen, rather than one born in the U.S, and become an agent of the USSS, anyway.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Kor » March 25th, 2016, 8:41 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Kor wrote:Putting aside that it's a name from over 600 files ago, the name Karasuma was also never written in English in the manga, so once again, would he really expect his Japanese readers to put (foreign) 2 + (ancient) 2 together?
Also, we don't know for sure when Karasuma died.
Senma claims that Karasuma died at some point after that (between 40 years ago (when the father was hired) and 20 years ago (when she found the clue in his letters)).


If it's just a coincidence, then it's quite the coincidence.

From both Episode 219 and File 300:

Anime

http://imgur.com/8hoxzfj

http://imgur.com/u31it6g

http://imgur.com/8Lw4Jfm

Manga (Not the best translation, of course.)
http://imgur.com/zn9pPPD


We already tackled this in the past. That story with the two strangers is most likely just a lie.

1. In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say.

At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago".
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Chekhov MacGuffin
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » March 25th, 2016, 9:53 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Some copypasta from DCW

So you've been going on DCW? (Thing is, my anti-virus software has blocked the site for me, so thanks for posting your thoughts, here.)
DCW has been clean for a week now.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:If his dying message is "ASAKA RUM," then he would had to have known beforehand about the Organization, as I doubt Koji just happened to hear the name, just moments before he was killed, since it's very unlikely the word "Rum" would've be shouted by either Amanda or Asaka. Perhaps he heard it in an earlier conversation between Asaka and someone else.
I am inclined to think Kohji is unaware of the Organization and overheard/oversaw Rum talking and learned the codename that way. Kohji was then caught eavesdropping, leading to the events that got him killed.

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:If Koji is why Rum lost an eye, then he must've wiped his blood off of the scissors—else, he'd be ID'd.

The scissors were put under water by Kohji to cut the glass. If the chain of events went
#1 Asaka/Rum attacked Kohji, Kohji stabbed his eye with scissors and forced Asaka/Rum to retreat
#2 Kohji cut the glass underwater to leave a dying message. This washed the scissors clean to the naked eye (testing could find DNA).
#3 Kohji dies and the photographer takes the pictures
#4 Asaka/Rum worms his way back in and disappears with the scissors and mirror
Then the contradiction is explained. Also this would be early in the life of routine DNA testing, although Kohji's/Amanda's case would be big enough to warrant a full power investigation with all the trim because he is famous and Amanda had contacts in the FBI and CIA. Technically Kohji could have used another weapon besides the scissors, but the scissors are the most likely choice.

I kind of wonder if the photographer was Daddy Akai?

@The Karasuma theory in general
Can Karasuma Renya please just get stuffed in a concrete box, weighted with lead, and dumped in Lake Michigan already? Karasuma was a greedy clodhead who killed people because he wanted them to solve the riddle of his mansion and find the gold for him faster. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... suma_Renya

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