Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Kor » March 25th, 2016, 10:05 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:@The Karasuma theory in general
Can Karasuma Renya please just get stuffed in a concrete box, weighted with lead, and dumped in Lake Michigan already? Karasuma was a greedy clodhead who killed people because he wanted them to solve the riddle of his mansion and find the gold for him faster. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... suma_Renya

I also wish people would stop bringing him up. His case was fun, but he is not some mystical figure and there is no grand conspiracy going on with him.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » March 25th, 2016, 11:25 pm

Kor wrote:We already tackled this in the past. That story with the two strangers is most likely just a lie.

1. In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say.

At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago".


Thank you for making me aware of that, because I had no idea. :)

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Some copypasta from DCW

So you've been going on DCW? (Thing is, my anti-virus software has blocked the site for me, so thanks for posting your thoughts, here.)
DCW has been clean for a week now.


Working on getting my anti-virus software to re-classify the site, then.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:If his dying message is "ASAKA RUM," then he would had to have known beforehand about the Organization, as I doubt Koji just happened to hear the name, just moments before he was killed, since it's very unlikely the word "Rum" would've be shouted by either Amanda or Asaka. Perhaps he heard it in an earlier conversation between Asaka and someone else.
I am inclined to think Kohji is unaware of the Organization and overheard/oversaw Rum talking and learned the codename that way. Kohji was then caught eavesdropping, leading to the events that got him killed.


Yeah, that's probably it.

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:If Koji is why Rum lost an eye, then he must've wiped his blood off of the scissors—else, he'd be ID'd.

The scissors were put under water by Kohji to cut the glass. If the chain of events went
#1 Asaka/Rum attacked Kohji, Kohji stabbed his eye with scissors and forced Asaka/Rum to retreat
#2 Kohji cut the glass underwater to leave a dying message. This washed the scissors clean to the naked eye (testing could find DNA).
#3 Kohji dies and the photographer takes the pictures
#4 Asaka/Rum worms his way back in and disappears with the scissors and mirror

Then the contradiction is explained. Also this would be early in the life of routine DNA testing, although Kohji's/Amanda's case would be big enough to warrant a full power investigation with all the trim because he is famous and Amanda had contacts in the FBI and CIA. Technically Kohji could have used another weapon besides the scissors, but the scissors are the most likely choice.

I kind of wonder if the photographer was Daddy Akai?


So the eye gouge to Rum and the fatal wound to Koji occurred at the same time, hence Rum leaving and allowing others to react to the commotion (but not emergency personnel, like the police, so he could come back and get the mirror)? Once again, that's probably it.

If he wasn't FBI, and Asaka—Rum—was the only one present, then some kind of private investigator could fit the bill. Alternatively, what if he was BO, and he was conversing with Rum, and this conversation was overheard by Koji?

I know this is by no means official, but does anyone know what "Kiritake" means (or any of the other possible combos, for that matter)?

Kor wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:@The Karasuma theory in general
Can Karasuma Renya please just get stuffed in a concrete box, weighted with lead, and dumped in Lake Michigan already? Karasuma was a greedy clodhead who killed people because he wanted them to solve the riddle of his mansion and find the gold for him faster. http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... suma_Renya

I also wish people would stop bringing him up. His case was fun, but he is not some mystical figure and there is no grand conspiracy going on with him.


No kill like overkill... ;)

Well, I certainly don't think he or another popular one case candidate, Genichirou Kaneshiro, is the boss. But if that story about the two men was just that, a story, then what's to be said about the Karasuma family apparently "[dying] out?" If Gosho's making a call back to Volume 18 in Volume 89, then who's to say we can't have a Volume 30 callback in Volume 90?

On the other hand, if Gosho didn't intend that Koji's dying message could be read as "C/KARASUMA," then that is a tried and true coincidence (a.k.a., wow, that's weird, but hey, there you go).
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » March 26th, 2016, 12:17 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So the eye gouge to Rum and the fatal wound to Koji occurred at the same time, hence Rum leaving and allowing others to react to the commotion (but not emergency personnel, like the police, so he could come back and get the mirror)? Once again, that's probably it.

To clarify, I think the scenario would go something like Kohji and Rum/Asaka tussle and break things, Kohji nails Rum/Asaka's eye but Rum is able to deliver an overpowering blow and force feed Kohji APTX, Rum/Asaka is then forced to leave quickly maybe because it sounds like someone is coming. Kohji then summons the last of his strength while being killed by the poison, cuts the glass, and finally expires. Someone then takes the pictures, someone first on the scene maybe. Rum then staggers back in a group pretending that he was attacked by the killer to buy him time to make off with the mirror and scissors while people tromp around the room. Rum then flees before anyone can figure out the story. As long as he can't be traced, it doesn't matter that he would be fingered as the killer later. He had already pre-prepared precautions since he had to disappear after killing Amanda. Rum just had to avoid leaving solid evidence behind at Kohji's crime scene that could be used to track him down. Until we know more about how the events leading up to Kohji's murder and whether evidence disappeared from the scene, then it's not really possible to say what happened for sure.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » March 26th, 2016, 12:35 am

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So the eye gouge to Rum and the fatal wound to Koji occurred at the same time, hence Rum leaving and allowing others to react to the commotion (but not emergency personnel, like the police, so he could come back and get the mirror)? Once again, that's probably it.

To clarify, I think the scenario would go something like Kohji and Rum/Asaka tussle and break things, Kohji nails Rum/Asaka's eye but Rum is able to deliver an overpowering blow and force feed Kohji APTX, Rum/Asaka is then forced to leave quickly maybe because it sounds like someone is coming. Kohji then summons the last of his strength while being killed by the poison, cuts the glass, and finally expires. Someone then takes the pictures, someone first on the scene maybe. Rum then staggers back in a group pretending that he was attacked by the killer to buy him time to make off with the mirror and scissors while people tromp around the room. Rum then flees before anyone can figure out the story. As long as he can't be traced, it doesn't matter that he would be fingered as the killer later. He had already pre-prepared precautions since he had to disappear after killing Amanda. Rum just had to avoid leaving solid evidence behind at Kohji's crime scene that could be used to track him down. Until we know more about how the events leading up to Kohji's murder and whether evidence disappeared from the scene, then it's not really possible to say what happened for sure.


Of course, but as of right now, it's a pretty good guess.

I shouldn't have said "wound..." that's not the best description for a poison. :-[
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby bash7353 » March 26th, 2016, 12:31 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Serinox wrote:No, the umbrella term for all things intelligence is "Intelligence Agency" in English, but I don't recall the term "Secret Service" being common for that purpose. That's more of an umbrella term for services like the US Secret Service or the equivalent in other nations.


When I saw "Secret Service," I instantly thought of the US Secret Service, but Mary is likely British. However, we don't know if Mary, like James, was merely born in Britain and then ended up in America, before going back, at some point.

Requirements to become a Secret Service agent:

www.chcoc.gov via en.wikipedia.org wrote:At a minimum, a prospective agent must be a U.S. citizen, possess a current valid driver's license, possess visual acuity no worse than 20/60 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 in each eye, and be between the ages of 21 and 37 at the time of appointment.


As far as I can tell, Mary could've simply been a naturalized U.S. citizen, rather than one born in the U.S, and become an agent of the USSS, anyway.


I don't think there is a specific reference to the United States Secret Service in the chapter. I can understand that from an English language point of view that is the first thing that coms to mind, but that doesn't mean the Japanese supports that.

In my opinion the take-away from this part of the chapter shouldn't be that the Mystery Girl is an intelligence officer or that she is American. I think the only implication is that she behaves the way a professional bodyguard would, suggesting that maybe she is one. I don't think you can read any more than that into Conan's thoughts. That and the fact that she is female leads Conan to consider the possibility that she could be Asaca because the only things we really know about Asaca is that Acasa is a female bodyguard.

Conan doesn't think about a particular technique that was used, or attributes it to a particular country or agency. It wouldn't really make sense if he did as he didn't see what the Mystery Girl did. He only sees the result and notes that it was quick and precise work.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Themaninarmor » March 26th, 2016, 1:22 pm

I agree with this

bash7353 wrote:In my opinion the take-away from this part of the chapter shouldn't be that the Mystery Girl is an intelligence officer or that she is American. I think the only implication is that she behaves the way a professional bodyguard would, suggesting that maybe she is one. I don't think you can read any more than that into Conan's thoughts. That and the fact that she is female leads Conan to consider the possibility that she could be Asaca because the only things we really know about Asaca is that Acasa is a female bodyguard.

Conan doesn't think about a particular technique that was used, or attributes it to a particular country or agency. It wouldn't really make sense if he did as he didn't see what the Mystery Girl did. He only sees the result and notes that it was quick and precise work.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » March 26th, 2016, 6:38 pm

bash7353 wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Serinox wrote:No, the umbrella term for all things intelligence is "Intelligence Agency" in English, but I don't recall the term "Secret Service" being common for that purpose. That's more of an umbrella term for services like the US Secret Service or the equivalent in other nations.


When I saw "Secret Service," I instantly thought of the US Secret Service, but Mary is likely British. However, we don't know if Mary, like James, was merely born in Britain and then ended up in America, before going back, at some point.

Requirements to become a Secret Service agent:

www.chcoc.gov via en.wikipedia.org wrote:At a minimum, a prospective agent must be a U.S. citizen, possess a current valid driver's license, possess visual acuity no worse than 20/60 uncorrected, correctable to 20/20 in each eye, and be between the ages of 21 and 37 at the time of appointment.


As far as I can tell, Mary could've simply been a naturalized U.S. citizen, rather than one born in the U.S, and become an agent of the USSS, anyway.


I don't think there is a specific reference to the United States Secret Service in the chapter. I can understand that from an English language point of view that is the first thing that coms to mind, but that doesn't mean the Japanese supports that.

In my opinion the take-away from this part of the chapter shouldn't be that the Mystery Girl is an intelligence officer or that she is American. I think the only implication is that she behaves the way a professional bodyguard would, suggesting that maybe she is one. I don't think you can read any more than that into Conan's thoughts. That and the fact that she is female leads Conan to consider the possibility that she could be Asaca because the only things we really know about Asaca is that Acasa is a female bodyguard.

Conan doesn't think about a particular technique that was used, or attributes it to a particular country or agency. It wouldn't really make sense if he did as he didn't see what the Mystery Girl did. He only sees the result and notes that it was quick and precise work.


I was merely saying that is was plausible for Mary to be born in Britain, and then come to the U.S. and end up in the Secret Service. Is it more likely than her being in, say, MI6? Probably not.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan 951-953

Postby Incomplete-tantei » March 30th, 2016, 1:37 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote: I think I have Gosho's plan figured out now. We are going to have 3 Rum cases. Rum Case #1 is stars girly Rum. Next case we run into with Rum, maybe another flashback, a witness is going to come out and have a completely different idea, like he's a geezer. Then case 3, strong dude.


Is Gosho really going to make 3 new Rum suspects, and we'll have to figure out who's Rum like for Bourbon you mean ? For this Rum arc I feel like Gosho just wants to confuse us by drawing as many Rum suspects as possible somehow, not just 3. We already have Kansuke, Kuroda, the old guy from the Yumi case (may be a recurring character) (file 945-947) and Mary. I might not have listed all the suspects though.

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