Ambitious Theory About Scotch

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PirateKing

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Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by PirateKing »

Okay, this is a theory about Akai, Amuro and Scotch which struck me yesterday, and I spent some time going through chapters 895-current to gather what little evidence there is to support it. Given the lack of information we have on Scotch, it’s fair to say this theory is built on nothing more than some suspicions of mine and a couple of leaps of faith. I’ve got nothing solid to prove it, but since it was fun to think of, I thought I’d share it anyway.

I’ll just write down stuff we know already, just as a review.

Review:
Spoiler:
So we know that Amuro, Akai and Scotch worked together in the BO at some point, 4 years ago (Files 936-938). It’s also common knowledge that Akai infiltrated the BO between 5 and 2 years ago. It is unknown when Bourbon infiltrated the BO, but we can be sure that when Masumi saw the trio at the train station 4 years ago, all 3 men were working for the BO, as evidenced by the fact that Bourbon calls Scotch by his alcoholic nickname.

We’ve been told that Scotch was a spy inside the BO, who was killed before they could get his real name by Vermouth (File 898). Akai later talks to Amuro over the phone about him (File 897) and says the words: “About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. From this we can conclude that Bourbon’s hate of Akai is connected with the death of Scotch, but the details are hazy.
Later on, we learn that Scotch was an undercover agent for the Public Security Bureau, and according to Amuro, he was killed by Akai (File 938).

A quick side note: Akai, who was fond of both Scotch and Bourbon for quite some time, abruptly stopped drinking Scotch, and resorted to drinking only Bourbon (File 898).

Therefore, taking the Hidemi-Ethan scenario as a precedent, the general consensus is that the following happened:
Akai and Scotch were on a secret undercover mission. But it went south, and to protect his identity, Akai killed Scotch (possibly because Scotch asked him to). Therefore, by killing an undercover agent, Akai’s position in the BO becomes cemented and he rises through the ranks. Bourbon is in the dark about this and he thinks Akai killed him on purpose, which is the reason for their rivalry.
So this is my theory:
Spoiler:
Scotch was actually a top-secret spy FOR the Black Organisation, IN the PSB. That is to say, he was actually a bad guy, not all the nice-guy-who-taught-guitar we’ve been thinking all along.

In the recently concluded Gosho Aoyama day interview session, there was a question about whether the BO had spies inside the police force, to which Gosho did not (or could not) give a straight answer to. So I present this –

Scotch was the spy in the police force. His work for the BO was top secret – to the point that perhaps only the Boss (or maybe even Rum) knew that he was actually loyal to the BO all along. I say this because Vermouth still thinks of Scotch as a spy from what she says in File 898. Therefore, Scotch actually being an undercover BO agent is kept secret from everyone except the Boss and Rum (maybe).
This is actually an ingenious move, because the Boss can kill two birds with one stone. By putting Scotch in the PSB, the Boss gets inside info on the police, and at the same time, Scotch can monitor if there any spies FROM the PSB in the BO – Bourbon, for example. Since the Boss is suspicious of spies in the BO, the fact that Scotch is actually a BO agent is kept in the dark from all other agents – even Vermouth.

Now going back to what happened between the trio 2-4 years ago:

Akai somehow discovered that Scotch was a double-agent – only thing being, he’s actually working for the BO and not the PSB – which is why Akai kills him. Akai feels betrayed by Scotch, who he has seen as a dear friend so far. He also knows that Amuro was also good friends with Scotch – maybe even closer than Akai was – and that Amuro has a high, gold-plated opinion of Scotch in his mind.

Therefore, Akai decides NOT to tell Amuro that Scotch was a bad guy, and instead spins the ‘he was an undercover agent and I killed him’ story, ensuring that Amuro’s memory of Scotch is not tarnished. Amuro continues to believe Scotch was actually working for the PSB when he was killed, and hates Akai ever since.

Now with the story of Scotch being killed being known in the Organisation, the Boss is in a pinch. He can’t conduct investigations on it, since he’ll have to reveal that Scotch was working for the BO and it might tip off any other REAL spies inside the BO. Therefore, he employs Scotch’s cover story as the truth, and lets it be known that ‘Scotch was working for the PSB, but he was killed by our loyal man Akai’, and all the other BO agents heave a sigh of relief.
Evidence (a better name would be - things I think fit) :
Spoiler:
Now that the theory is away, time to back it with some flimsy evidence (if you can call it that):

File 898 – Akai’s words – ‘About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. So far, some of us might be thinking that Akai is feeling sorry that Scotch had to die, and he is feeling remorseful of that. BUT, what if it actually means that Akai regrets that Scotch – whom Amuro and perhaps Akai himself looked up to – turned out to be a spy. Akai regrets that he trusted a man who turned out to be a spy, and he considers it a personal failure.

Again File 898 – Akai mysteriously ceasing to drink Scotch. Again, the obvious answer would be that he isn’t drinking it in respect of the dead Scotch. But what if it’s actually because it disgusts Akai to drink the alcohol, since even seeing the name ‘Scotch’ evokes the memories of the man who betrayed him, and the man he eventually had to kill – probably even one of the men he least wanted to kill.

(Leap of faith I talked about) Once again, File 898 – This file also contains what I think is a case which is fraught with foreshadowing – The case of the four glasses, also called the lemon juice – vinegar case. It’s actually a pet theory of mine that the four glasses actually mean the characteristics of Rum, but it could actually apply to his case as well.

To jog your memory, there are four glasses and supposedly – 3 contain the “good” Lemon Juice, while 1 contains the “bad” Vinegar. Plot-parallels time: Consider the four glasses to be the popular (and canonical) four spies in the BO. Three of them are the “good” ones – Hidemi Hondou, Akai and Amuro. One is the “bad” one – Scotch.
Conclusion:
Spoiler:
To conclude, I think making Scotch a bad guy would actually be a good twist to the manga. Fans are already complaining about the abundance of spies inside the BO, and the introduction of a spy inside the police from the BO would be a good addition to the plot (though he’s dead). It also helps that the spy was actually introduced as a nice guy who took the time to teach a young girl some guitar scales, and by reversing his role and putting him as a bad guy, it also provides a grey characteristic to him, which is a good departure from the usual Black/White nature of the BO members.

The only “true” BO member who is portrayed as a gray character is Vermouth, whose human side is emphasised in the Teitan High School Ghost Story case (457-459), where Ariade even asks Jodie if Vermouth was a bad person after all. So the introduction of another grey character in Scotch would greatly help. Not to mention that if Scotch was the good guy and Akai killed him, it’s basically a rehash of the Hidemi-Ethan situation, which I doubt any of us want to see.
So that’s my theory. I know it’s based on next to nothing, but I still had a lot of fun coming up with it. Cheers!
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k11chi

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by k11chi »

I think that this may be how Akai and Amuro both got bigger in the BO. Amuro and Scotch working together, and Akai working with them (Akai didn't figure out Amuro's true identity until recently) happened also while the BO found out, in a way that didn't require them to find out Scotch's true identity, that Scotch was a spy. Something happened, and Akai killed Scotch with Amuro in the vicinity. Them both confirming Scotch's death made their loyalty to the BO more clear. This could be the catalyst to Akai getting exposed, since Amuro has always held a grudge against Akai. It may be that Amuro even believed that Akai gave the hint?
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by MoonRaven »

Interesting theory. I hope we find more evidence soon to either solidify or break it down.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by MeiTanteixX »

PirateKing wrote:Okay, this is a theory about Akai, Amuro and Scotch which struck me yesterday, and I spent some time going through chapters 895-current to gather what little evidence there is to support it. Given the lack of information we have on Scotch, it’s fair to say this theory is built on nothing more than some suspicions of mine and a couple of leaps of faith. I’ve got nothing solid to prove it, but since it was fun to think of, I thought I’d share it anyway.

I’ll just write down stuff we know already, just as a review.

Review:
Spoiler:
So we know that Amuro, Akai and Scotch worked together in the BO at some point, 4 years ago (Files 936-938). It’s also common knowledge that Akai infiltrated the BO between 5 and 2 years ago. It is unknown when Bourbon infiltrated the BO, but we can be sure that when Masumi saw the trio at the train station 4 years ago, all 3 men were working for the BO, as evidenced by the fact that Bourbon calls Scotch by his alcoholic nickname.

We’ve been told that Scotch was a spy inside the BO, who was killed before they could get his real name by Vermouth (File 898). Akai later talks to Amuro over the phone about him (File 897) and says the words: “About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. From this we can conclude that Bourbon’s hate of Akai is connected with the death of Scotch, but the details are hazy.
Later on, we learn that Scotch was an undercover agent for the Public Security Bureau, and according to Amuro, he was killed by Akai (File 938).

A quick side note: Akai, who was fond of both Scotch and Bourbon for quite some time, abruptly stopped drinking Scotch, and resorted to drinking only Bourbon (File 898).

Therefore, taking the Hidemi-Ethan scenario as a precedent, the general consensus is that the following happened:
Akai and Scotch were on a secret undercover mission. But it went south, and to protect his identity, Akai killed Scotch (possibly because Scotch asked him to). Therefore, by killing an undercover agent, Akai’s position in the BO becomes cemented and he rises through the ranks. Bourbon is in the dark about this and he thinks Akai killed him on purpose, which is the reason for their rivalry.
So this is my theory:
Spoiler:
Scotch was actually a top-secret spy FOR the Black Organisation, IN the PSB. That is to say, he was actually a bad guy, not all the nice-guy-who-taught-guitar we’ve been thinking all along.

In the recently concluded Gosho Aoyama day interview session, there was a question about whether the BO had spies inside the police force, to which Gosho did not (or could not) give a straight answer to. So I present this –

Scotch was the spy in the police force. His work for the BO was top secret – to the point that perhaps only the Boss (or maybe even Rum) knew that he was actually loyal to the BO all along. I say this because Vermouth still thinks of Scotch as a spy from what she says in File 898. Therefore, Scotch actually being an undercover BO agent is kept secret from everyone except the Boss and Rum (maybe).
This is actually an ingenious move, because the Boss can kill two birds with one stone. By putting Scotch in the PSB, the Boss gets inside info on the police, and at the same time, Scotch can monitor if there any spies FROM the PSB in the BO – Bourbon, for example. Since the Boss is suspicious of spies in the BO, the fact that Scotch is actually a BO agent is kept in the dark from all other agents – even Vermouth.

Now going back to what happened between the trio 2-4 years ago:

Akai somehow discovered that Scotch was a double-agent – only thing being, he’s actually working for the BO and not the PSB – which is why Akai kills him. Akai feels betrayed by Scotch, who he has seen as a dear friend so far. He also knows that Amuro was also good friends with Scotch – maybe even closer than Akai was – and that Amuro has a high, gold-plated opinion of Scotch in his mind.

Therefore, Akai decides NOT to tell Amuro that Scotch was a bad guy, and instead spins the ‘he was an undercover agent and I killed him’ story, ensuring that Amuro’s memory of Scotch is not tarnished. Amuro continues to believe Scotch was actually working for the PSB when he was killed, and hates Akai ever since.

Now with the story of Scotch being killed being known in the Organisation, the Boss is in a pinch. He can’t conduct investigations on it, since he’ll have to reveal that Scotch was working for the BO and it might tip off any other REAL spies inside the BO. Therefore, he employs Scotch’s cover story as the truth, and lets it be known that ‘Scotch was working for the PSB, but he was killed by our loyal man Akai’, and all the other BO agents heave a sigh of relief.
Evidence (a better name would be - things I think fit) :
Spoiler:
Now that the theory is away, time to back it with some flimsy evidence (if you can call it that):

File 898 – Akai’s words – ‘About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. So far, some of us might be thinking that Akai is feeling sorry that Scotch had to die, and he is feeling remorseful of that. BUT, what if it actually means that Akai regrets that Scotch – whom Amuro and perhaps Akai himself looked up to – turned out to be a spy. Akai regrets that he trusted a man who turned out to be a spy, and he considers it a personal failure.

Again File 898 – Akai mysteriously ceasing to drink Scotch. Again, the obvious answer would be that he isn’t drinking it in respect of the dead Scotch. But what if it’s actually because it disgusts Akai to drink the alcohol, since even seeing the name ‘Scotch’ evokes the memories of the man who betrayed him, and the man he eventually had to kill – probably even one of the men he least wanted to kill.

(Leap of faith I talked about) Once again, File 898 – This file also contains what I think is a case which is fraught with foreshadowing – The case of the four glasses, also called the lemon juice – vinegar case. It’s actually a pet theory of mine that the four glasses actually mean the characteristics of Rum, but it could actually apply to his case as well.

To jog your memory, there are four glasses and supposedly – 3 contain the “good” Lemon Juice, while 1 contains the “bad” Vinegar. Plot-parallels time: Consider the four glasses to be the popular (and canonical) four spies in the BO. Three of them are the “good” ones – Hidemi Hondou, Akai and Amuro. One is the “bad” one – Scotch.
Conclusion:
Spoiler:
To conclude, I think making Scotch a bad guy would actually be a good twist to the manga. Fans are already complaining about the abundance of spies inside the BO, and the introduction of a spy inside the police from the BO would be a good addition to the plot (though he’s dead). It also helps that the spy was actually introduced as a nice guy who took the time to teach a young girl some guitar scales, and by reversing his role and putting him as a bad guy, it also provides a grey characteristic to him, which is a good departure from the usual Black/White nature of the BO members.

The only “true” BO member who is portrayed as a gray character is Vermouth, whose human side is emphasised in the Teitan High School Ghost Story case (457-459), where Ariade even asks Jodie if Vermouth was a bad person after all. So the introduction of another grey character in Scotch would greatly help. Not to mention that if Scotch was the good guy and Akai killed him, it’s basically a rehash of the Hidemi-Ethan situation, which I doubt any of us want to see.
So that’s my theory. I know it’s based on next to nothing, but I still had a lot of fun coming up with it. Cheers!
Your theory sounds like something really noteworthy, and it could very well be a possibility, though I don't think that what Akai said to Amuro:"About him, I regret what 'happened'...", is referring to Akai regretting trusting Scotch...
Now, one error I need to note is that manga reference you made to file 898! the four cups you mentioned is wrong... It's actually 3 cups with vinegar and 1 cup with lemon! a key factor in trick was that he actually put vinegar in all 4 of them but acted like the one he took tasted as good as lemon!
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by Max1996 »

MeiTanteixX wrote: Now, one error I need to note is that manga reference you made to file 898! the four cups you mentioned is wrong... It's actually 3 cups with vinegar and 1 cup with lemon! a key factor in trick was that he actually put vinegar in all 4 of them but acted like the one he took tasted as good as lemon!
If you think of that as "One of the four appears to be different.", it could be correct.
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jimmy_kud0_tv2

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by jimmy_kud0_tv2 »

PirateKing wrote: To jog your memory, there are four glasses and supposedly – 3 contain the “good” Lemon Juice, while 1 contains the “bad” Vinegar. Plot-parallels time: Consider the four glasses to be the popular (and canonical) four spies in the BO. Three of them are the “good” ones – Hidemi Hondou, Akai and Amuro. One is the “bad” one – Scotch.
except there are 5 canonical spies
Akai, Amuro, Scotch, Ethan, and Hidemi
So far, Ethan and Scotch have potentially really similar stories in that
they both died, and presumably resulted in another spy's promotion

The only thing we don't know is whether Scotch died willingly or not,
or whether Akai actually killed him, or mearly caused the events that lead to his
death, resulting in Bourbon blaming him to the point of saying that he killed him.

However I'm unsure why Agasa's trick would be related to this. That trick couldn't really
be used in the solution or reveal of Scotch's character because there would be no reason
for it to connect. Agasa would have no way to know this information.

I still feel like it was Haibara that made Agasa set up that trick and then pretend not to
be interested, in order to force the DB to go ask Okiya. In this way she could get them to
effectively spy on him for her since she in the past has compared him twice to
"Moroboshi Dai", as well as compared "Dai" to "Aki Shuuichi". Agasa really doesn't do tricks
usually. In the manga he has stuck pretty close to code sheets and things like that. The
Movie and Anime version of him sticks to really bad Puns. The only issue with this line of
thinking is that even now, nothing has really come of the DB seeing Okiya's choker.......
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:I still feel like it was Haibara that made Agasa set up that trick and then pretend not to
be interested, in order to force the DB to go ask Okiya. In this way she could get them to
effectively spy on him for her
And the reason she did so, then, rather than at any point after Mystery Train, was because Shinichi/Conan was whispering to Agasa the day before Scarlet Showdown ("Looks like something has happened... outside of my territory."), which prompted her to get to the bottom of it?
PirateKing wrote:Okay, this is a theory about Akai, Amuro and Scotch which struck me yesterday, and I spent some time going through chapters 895-current to gather what little evidence there is to support it. Given the lack of information we have on Scotch, it’s fair to say this theory is built on nothing more than some suspicions of mine and a couple of leaps of faith. I’ve got nothing solid to prove it, but since it was fun to think of, I thought I’d share it anyway.

I’ll just write down stuff we know already, just as a review.

Review:
Spoiler:
So we know that Amuro, Akai and Scotch worked together in the BO at some point, 4 years ago (Files 936-938). It’s also common knowledge that Akai infiltrated the BO between 5 and 2 years ago. It is unknown when Bourbon infiltrated the BO, but we can be sure that when Masumi saw the trio at the train station 4 years ago, all 3 men were working for the BO, as evidenced by the fact that Bourbon calls Scotch by his alcoholic nickname.

We’ve been told that Scotch was a spy inside the BO, who was killed before they could get his real name by Vermouth (File 898). Akai later talks to Amuro over the phone about him (File 897) and says the words: “About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. From this we can conclude that Bourbon’s hate of Akai is connected with the death of Scotch, but the details are hazy.
Later on, we learn that Scotch was an undercover agent for the Public Security Bureau, and according to Amuro, he was killed by Akai (File 938).

A quick side note: Akai, who was fond of both Scotch and Bourbon for quite some time, abruptly stopped drinking Scotch, and resorted to drinking only Bourbon (File 898).

Therefore, taking the Hidemi-Ethan scenario as a precedent, the general consensus is that the following happened:
Akai and Scotch were on a secret undercover mission. But it went south, and to protect his identity, Akai killed Scotch (possibly because Scotch asked him to). Therefore, by killing an undercover agent, Akai’s position in the BO becomes cemented and he rises through the ranks. Bourbon is in the dark about this and he thinks Akai killed him on purpose, which is the reason for their rivalry.
So this is my theory:
Spoiler:
Scotch was actually a top-secret spy FOR the Black Organisation, IN the PSB. That is to say, he was actually a bad guy, not all the nice-guy-who-taught-guitar we’ve been thinking all along.

In the recently concluded Gosho Aoyama day interview session, there was a question about whether the BO had spies inside the police force, to which Gosho did not (or could not) give a straight answer to. So I present this –

Scotch was the spy in the police force. His work for the BO was top secret – to the point that perhaps only the Boss (or maybe even Rum) knew that he was actually loyal to the BO all along. I say this because Vermouth still thinks of Scotch as a spy from what she says in File 898. Therefore, Scotch actually being an undercover BO agent is kept secret from everyone except the Boss and Rum (maybe).
This is actually an ingenious move, because the Boss can kill two birds with one stone. By putting Scotch in the PSB, the Boss gets inside info on the police, and at the same time, Scotch can monitor if there any spies FROM the PSB in the BO – Bourbon, for example. Since the Boss is suspicious of spies in the BO, the fact that Scotch is actually a BO agent is kept in the dark from all other agents – even Vermouth.

Now going back to what happened between the trio 2-4 years ago:

Akai somehow discovered that Scotch was a double-agent – only thing being, he’s actually working for the BO and not the PSB – which is why Akai kills him. Akai feels betrayed by Scotch, who he has seen as a dear friend so far. He also knows that Amuro was also good friends with Scotch – maybe even closer than Akai was – and that Amuro has a high, gold-plated opinion of Scotch in his mind.

Therefore, Akai decides NOT to tell Amuro that Scotch was a bad guy, and instead spins the ‘he was an undercover agent and I killed him’ story, ensuring that Amuro’s memory of Scotch is not tarnished. Amuro continues to believe Scotch was actually working for the PSB when he was killed, and hates Akai ever since.

Now with the story of Scotch being killed being known in the Organisation, the Boss is in a pinch. He can’t conduct investigations on it, since he’ll have to reveal that Scotch was working for the BO and it might tip off any other REAL spies inside the BO. Therefore, he employs Scotch’s cover story as the truth, and lets it be known that ‘Scotch was working for the PSB, but he was killed by our loyal man Akai’, and all the other BO agents heave a sigh of relief.
Evidence (a better name would be - things I think fit) :
Spoiler:
Now that the theory is away, time to back it with some flimsy evidence (if you can call it that):

File 898 – Akai’s words – ‘About him, I regret what happened. Even now...”. So far, some of us might be thinking that Akai is feeling sorry that Scotch had to die, and he is feeling remorseful of that. BUT, what if it actually means that Akai regrets that Scotch – whom Amuro and perhaps Akai himself looked up to – turned out to be a spy. Akai regrets that he trusted a man who turned out to be a spy, and he considers it a personal failure.

Again File 898 – Akai mysteriously ceasing to drink Scotch. Again, the obvious answer would be that he isn’t drinking it in respect of the dead Scotch. But what if it’s actually because it disgusts Akai to drink the alcohol, since even seeing the name ‘Scotch’ evokes the memories of the man who betrayed him, and the man he eventually had to kill – probably even one of the men he least wanted to kill.

(Leap of faith I talked about) Once again, File 898 – This file also contains what I think is a case which is fraught with foreshadowing – The case of the four glasses, also called the lemon juice – vinegar case. It’s actually a pet theory of mine that the four glasses actually mean the characteristics of Rum, but it could actually apply to his case as well.

To jog your memory, there are four glasses and supposedly – 3 contain the “good” Lemon Juice, while 1 contains the “bad” Vinegar. Plot-parallels time: Consider the four glasses to be the popular (and canonical) four spies in the BO. Three of them are the “good” ones – Hidemi Hondou, Akai and Amuro. One is the “bad” one – Scotch.
Conclusion:
Spoiler:
To conclude, I think making Scotch a bad guy would actually be a good twist to the manga. Fans are already complaining about the abundance of spies inside the BO, and the introduction of a spy inside the police from the BO would be a good addition to the plot (though he’s dead). It also helps that the spy was actually introduced as a nice guy who took the time to teach a young girl some guitar scales, and by reversing his role and putting him as a bad guy, it also provides a grey characteristic to him, which is a good departure from the usual Black/White nature of the BO members.

The only “true” BO member who is portrayed as a gray character is Vermouth, whose human side is emphasised in the Teitan High School Ghost Story case (457-459), where Ariade even asks Jodie if Vermouth was a bad person after all. So the introduction of another grey character in Scotch would greatly help. Not to mention that if Scotch was the good guy and Akai killed him, it’s basically a rehash of the Hidemi-Ethan situation, which I doubt any of us want to see.
So that’s my theory. I know it’s based on next to nothing, but I still had a lot of fun coming up with it. Cheers!
Spoiler:
It would certainly be an interesting development.
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PirateKing

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by PirateKing »

MeiTanteixX wrote:Now, one error I need to note is that manga reference you made to file 898! the four cups you mentioned is wrong... It's actually 3 cups with vinegar and 1 cup with lemon! a key factor in trick was that he actually put vinegar in all 4 of them but acted like the one he took tasted as good as lemon!
You're right about that, my mistake!
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:However I'm unsure why Agasa's trick would be related to this. That trick couldn't really
be used in the solution or reveal of Scotch's character because there would be no reason
for it to connect. Agasa would have no way to know this information.
Oh no, I'm not saying Agasa was giving a hint through the cups, I wanted to say it could be foreshadowing that Scotch was the different one fro m the other three.
I still feel like it was Haibara that made Agasa set up that trick and then pretend not to
be interested, in order to force the DB to go ask Okiya. In this way she could get them to
effectively spy on him for her since she in the past has compared him twice to
"Moroboshi Dai", as well as compared "Dai" to "Aki Shuuichi". Agasa really doesn't do tricks
usually. In the manga he has stuck pretty close to code sheets and things like that. The
Movie and Anime version of him sticks to really bad Puns. The only issue with this line of
thinking is that even now, nothing has really come of the DB seeing Okiya's choker.......
I'm still sure that the vinegar-lemon case is going to have some sort of impact on the Rum arc. It was a completely unnecessary case right out of the blue, smack in between the Scarlet epilogue. I do believe it will foreshadow something, but whether it it's Scotch or Rum is anyone's guess.
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by k11chi »

There should be atleast one more spy in the org, the person who will leak Vermouth's secret when Amuro dies.
b-okiya

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by b-okiya »

I do really like this theory. I read it like two days ago, and I've been thinking for a while about what this could add to the story if proven to be true.

I'd like to comment on a few things here:

First of all, if this didn't add anything to the plot (as if Scotch is merely a dead PSB agent who died accidentally or was killed by mistake), it would be totally meaningless to be brought to the spotlight at any point. So, I think that the whole Scotch thing does carry something in-between the lines.

Now, if that's the case here, does Bourbon know about Scotch being a BO spy?
I'd go with no, he doesn't. His reaction seemed to be a mixture of pure sorrow and anger regarding his supposed friend's death. So he is most likely unaware of the true identity of Scotch. Gosho always sounds to like the idea of making Akai superior to other intelligent characters (agents in particular), and this (Akai uncovering and eliminating Scotch before Bourbon) works very well with that idea (which is why Akai is certainly feared by the BO and even the Boss themselves).

Then, why has Bourbon not known about this fact yet? The answer is in the hands of both Akai and the BO.

If Akai has already uncovered Scotch, was he just being affectionate to not tell Bourbon and disrupt his picture of Scotch?
While this could be the case, it could also be an intentional act that has some beneficial outcome to the FBI (maybe Akai thought that if Bourbon got to know that the PSB were infiltrated, he would become weaker and easier to uncover due to the chaotic condition that's created by that shocking fact, so Akai kept it a secret exactly like he did with his FBI comrades. But it could also be a disadvantage to the PSB themselves if they didn't get to realize that they've been shot deeply by the BO, and thus carries a huge danger).
Or maybe Akai was unable to tell Bourbon the truth? I think this is the case since Akai was yet to be sure of Bourbon's current affiliation with the PSB (which has been confirmed recently in the scarlet series). So Akai might be already aware of the PSB's moves back then while he was still in the BO (for which he said to Bourbon in the scarlet series: "I've suspected you ever since we were in the organization together...") but not that Bourbon was particularly one of their agents, which caused him to merely suspect Bourbon since then.

As for the BO, "they" seem to know about Scotch incident in details. But who are "they"? I think that it's probably as you mentioned; only a few people know about this. Even Vermouth was speaking superficially about Scotch when she was in the car with Bourbon which made it seem like she didn't know about him or his case thoroughly.
But, why should this be kept a secret?!
It's probably the "role" Scotch was assigned to have; even until now.
If the true identity of Scotch happened to be leaked inside the BO's territories, many members - including Bourbon and Vermouth - would know about it, which is not true as we can tell from both Vermouth line and Bourbon's reaction. Therefore, it was kept hidden from the eyes of most members for a sole purpose, which is to deceive Bourbon and Akai.
What does that mean? It simply means that those guys (the Boss, and maybe Rum/Gin?) who know about Scotch want to use his secret to uncover more and more about the spies thing. This does also mean that Bourbon being a PSB agent is already revealed to those higher-ups of the BO, and is being manipulated to be used against the PSB, and maybe more specifically against Akai himself (who should therefore be known to have some connections with Bourbon and thus the silver bullet can finally be approached).

To sum up, going with this theory directly puts Bourbon in a huge danger, and does the same indirectly to Akai and the FBI, which can more or less anticipate the mode of action that's probably going to be taken by the BO in their next mission of exterminating the spies, and maybe turning the tables upside-down (maybe this is Rum's next move?).

Finally, I didn't add any evidence based information here, but this is what came to mind after reading this theory and incorporating it with some previous thoughts about the upcoming picture and how it will turn out to be.

All in all, I find this theory very interesting and promising.
ATEM

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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by ATEM »

I don't hate the idea of scotch being a bad person but the theory as it is seems to have many points of weaknesses enough to break it down or at least it needs some modifications to be more reasonable !!!
Why would akai kill scotch because he is a BO spy ??! Akai knew scotch and amuro from the start as a BO members not as justice defenders and it's obvious that no one of them told the other about their true intentions even if they suspected each other and if we said that akai discovered scotch secret police identity then it's very hard to know he worked as a spy for whom and akai won't take such a risk to make scotch discover that he is an FBI so the normal reaction is to continue treating him as a BO member . What makes it much more strange to me that although akai didn't know as a fact that amuro and scotch are secret police agents and neither they knew he was an FBI but for sure amuro and scotch knew that they are both secret police and also for sure amuro is loyal to them and is a true enemy to the BO and till now all of the BO members seems to believe in his loyalty to them so if scotch is really that bad guy how wouldn't he told them about amuro as a spy . And one more thing maybe many of them do alot of things behind curtains without telling the boss especially vermouth but no one of the BO members killed anyone for the sake of the organization without taking permission from the boss like pisco and sherry assassination even when amuro disguised as akai they took permission so why would scotch be killed before telling the boss about his treason as for this theory he is the BO eye inside the secret police would it be that easy to lose him and of coarse if it was true so akai must be aware of this and he won't kill him that easy and face the boss' s anger for taking actions without telling him .
One more thing ..It's just my thoughts based on akai personality till now but I really don't believe that akai killed scotch and he just was the reason for him being killed like akemi ,akai's personality and quietness seems to hold a lot of mystries and sadness but till now he doesn't appear as a person who can kill that easily... for enemies he is very cautious and doesn't act blindly he didn't kill calvados and did't shot vermouth in the head when he had the opportunity bec he knew how much she is important and also he didn't kill Gin not to cause any casualties to innocents' in the street so if scotch was a bad guy so he wouldn't kill him recklessly bec. He is disappointed of him as a friend and as for his friends he cares too much for them like jodie he even risked facing her in the red shirts case to protect her and he left akemi as a last hope to protect her and stayed away from her for two years and he he didn't leave his younger sister alone in the train despite he knew how wrong it was to take it with him and of coarse we don't need to tell about haibara now and that he is willing to die to protect her so he won't kill a friend cold blooded just to increase his position in the org. or for whatever reason . He told amuro that he doesn't want to be his enemy and not to forget his true mission however the hatred between them won't this apply for scotch too otherwise killing him and increase his position won't he had taken him as an ally like what he did with kir too !!! I can't imagine akai as such a killer !!
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

ATEM wrote:also he didn't kill Gin not to cause any casualties to innocents' in the street
While I'm not of the position that all Shuichi cares about is vengeance against the BO, for him, in that situation, he'd have to predict that Gin would lurch away at the last second, because if not—Gin: bullet through the head, dead. If he had no intention of killing Gin, that was a very risky and needless thing to do—he could've shot him elsewhere, not at all, or fired a warning shot.
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by unclesporkums »

Yeah, I think that was just a lousy explanation on Gosho's part. It seems that he just seemed to put the logic of the scene in the air on account of Akai not counting on Gin moving his head from the scope.

I do have an idea myself for the "Alternate Bourbon Arc" fanfic I'm currently writing on Scotch's death and how it plays into the backstory.
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

unclesporkums wrote:Yeah, I think that was just a lousy explanation on Gosho's part. It seems that he just seemed to put the logic of the scene in the air on account of Akai not counting on Gin moving his head from the scope.

I do have an idea myself for the "Alternate Bourbon Arc" fanfic I'm currently writing on Scotch's death and how it plays into the backstory.
Badass Appearance > Logic – You know the drill. 8-)

Looking forward to it. :)
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Ambitious Theory About Scotch

Post by unclesporkums »

Heh. Glad someone still is.
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