Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Serinox » December 7th, 2015, 3:39 pm

I just went through some older interviews and stumbled upon this thing in the summary of "Let's talk to Gosho Aoyama Day 2013" (http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1555-translating-interviews/page-4#entry287218)

"4. A girl asked about the "Sherry naked" thing, that why does Gin always think about her without clothes, what exactly is their relationship ?

Gosho answered that they indeed had a relationship, but it wouldn't be interesting if (he) revealed it there, so please wait for it."
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » December 9th, 2015, 6:44 pm

Serinox wrote:I just went through some older interviews and stumbled upon this thing in the summary of "Let's talk to Gosho Aoyama Day 2013" (http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/forum/topic/1555-translating-interviews/page-4#entry287218)

"4. A girl asked about the "Sherry naked" thing, that why does Gin always think about her without clothes, what exactly is their relationship ?

Gosho answered that they indeed had a relationship, but it wouldn't be interesting if (he) revealed it there, so please wait for it."


It'll probably be revealed in the "Gin arc," if Gosho decides to go that route, after the Rum arc finishes, or it might just be a story or two between the end of the Rum arc and what (I guess) will be the final arc of DC.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » December 25th, 2015, 6:29 pm

I think the fact that a Japanese fan even asked that question shows it's not just a cultural thing or a normal art style.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Themaninarmor » March 28th, 2016, 7:57 am

Rather than ginxai, i expect gin had some kind of affection toward elena. Bourbon said that ai closely resembles her mother, although i don't know if they had same hair colour. So thats why he love her but hate her in the same time sha sha sha (too much drama). It's better than make gin character as psycho pedophile bastard.

And about vermouth hatred, it is like she hate the project of aptx so much rather than hate shiho personally.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Tsuburaya Mitsuhiko » April 22nd, 2016, 6:35 pm

Ideal scenario (likely): Gin tried to rape Sherry or force her into a sexual relationship and got very close, but Sherry managed to escape before it could happen. However, he got close enough to mentally scar her. This would explain their entire relationship imho. It explains why Haibara hates and fears Gin so much (but isn't too traumatised to recover from her experience with him) and why Gin is both still longing for her and resenting her.

Worst case scenario (unlikely): Gin raped Sherry or forced her into a sexual relationship. This would also explain Haibaras deep hatred and fear of Gin, but wouldn't explain Gins hatred for her + I think Haibaras mental stability would be irrepairable if this truly happened. Also, it's unlikely that Gosho would put such dark material in this series, especially concerning a main character.

And there is no way that Gin and Sherry had a romantic relationship. That's (screwed up) fanfic material.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » April 22nd, 2016, 11:33 pm

Gin's hatred for her is based on her betraying the BO, and, thus, rejecting him. In either scenario you propose, she rejected him by fleeing.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Miliolina » August 28th, 2016, 6:56 pm

Since I'm new to this forum, I am surprised how many threads are referring to Gin's and Sherry's relationship in the past. It sure is an interesting topic, though.

About Sherry's dream and the rooftop conversation:

I think you guys interprete a bit too much in it.
There is something I noticed, when I re-read the mangas.
In the first chapter, the rollercoaster case, Gin uses quite foul language like "unlucky Bastard" and "bullshit detective game" and "So the bitch did it!", even though the police is around and could sue him for swearing ;D.

Later on, when he drugs Shinichi, he seems way more relaxed and speaks in a more oldfashioned way.
(I'm not a native and I had to look up what "So long..." in this context means. I have never heard it as a "goodbye phrase" before.) What I want to say is, that he does not only talk to Sherry like this, but also to random people he encounters.

Okay, that was the first chapter and Gosho indeed has changed Gins character outline a bit, but I think it's a crucial trait of him, that he uses rather sexual language when he is irritated about somethinig (the presence of the police or that Sherry is a traitor). And he could not know if the victim was a "bastard" and the apparent culprit a "bitch".
He probably just thinks in this kind of language in stressful or annoying situations and does not really have second thoughts about its sexual connotations.
So I would not interprete too much into Sherry's dream. Or the rooftop scene. I mean Sherry apparently knows Gin well and also about his bad habits when he is annoyed or his usual use of language when he is cool, so he also acts like that in her dream.

About Gin thinking about Sherry naked:

He does not always do this. When talks to Kogoro about her, he does not imagine her being naked. I think that could be because he does not expect her to appear. As far as I remember he only thinks of her naked when expects her to show up in this situation. Like the funeral or the Bell Tree Express.
I think it is just an "artistic motive" to emphasize the fact that Gin does not know about her exact whereabouts at the moment, but will find her. Showing/Imagining her partially naked indicates some sort of vulnerability and danger she is in.

About the possibility of rape:
I mean, there are a lot of things coming together, but I dont think that they must have had a romantical/sexual relationship just because of the rooftop scene and Gin imagining her naked. It could be possible but I personally think Sherry is way too serene/composed to be a rape victim since she freely plays along when he begins to "ooze charm" excessively. And I cannot see the Boss looking over a rape of a very important researcher, even if it is Gin. I mean, what if Sherry would have committed suicide because of that?

When I compare the portrayal of their "relationship" and abusive relationships, then I don't really see similarities.
Okay - DC is a shonen for underage people aswell - but there are ways to imply abusive relationships subtly. For example X standing close to Y. Like really close and Y is visibly uncomfortable with it. But when I think about Sherry's dream...There was nothing that would even imply something like rape. I mean it was a nightmare. And when you have nightmares in fiction you usually dream the worst case.

This was just my point of view before I read this thread. It still is.

Okay this post became longer than expected :D
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby ATEM » August 28th, 2016, 7:31 pm

Other than Gin imagining sherry naked we have no information about this relationship adding that Gin is a kind of a psychopath that we have no clue about how he thinks and how he imagines people so I don't have any opinion regarding this topic , but in the case where pisco appeared , if I remember correctly at the end when conan haibara were escaping in the dr. Agasa 's car , conan was wondering , how gin was sure that haibara will come and was he able to identify her just from a thread of her hair and he asked her something like "when you were in the organization were you .." but he was interupted by haibara 's question and conan's question and thoughts remained unclear till now but he soon after told sherry that since she thinks that she should leave then it's safe to remain with them giving the impression that he is sure that Gin knows haibara's mind very well ..
that can mean that a strong relationship between those two was there that made him able to recognize a thread of her hair or just Gin was really smart or he knew no other brown haired women xD
unless we have more hints or know more about gin or haibara we can't tell if that is true or not although I will feel too bad for haibara if she had a romance relationship with Gin someday xD xD
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Swagnarok » August 28th, 2016, 8:00 pm

I'm skeptical of the "Gin and Sherry were lovers" theory for several reasons.

First, it isn't Gosho Aoyama's style. Premarital sex (if someone was in a relationship with Gin, it'd almost definitely be sexual) was practically nonexistent among the main cast of Detective Conan until recent developments involving Takagi and Sato. It would appear that Shinichi, Ran, Heiji, and Kazuha are all virgins, and that Kogoro, for all his womanising, has probably never cheated on Eri. The series has a heavy idealised view of love as a pure, unadulterated, and lifelong union between two people. For this reason we see childhood friends who were "destined to be together" and then reunite decades later and enter a relationship, even if they had literally only met one freaking time in their childhood (I'm looking at you, Shiratori!). One night stands don't happen, ever. That Haibara has broken this norm (with Gin, no less) just seems off.
Second, there's the final conversation between Shiho and Akemi said something along the line of "You ought to find yourself a boyfriend", which to me implies that Shiho was an anti-social person who had never been in a romantic relationship. Unless we are to assume that Shiho never told Akemi about her fling with Gin; if it was consensual and if Shiho actually had feelings for Gin at the time, there's no reason to think that she'd keep it a total secret from her only friend in the world (at the very least she'd say something like "I'm going out with a friend from work").
Third, there really isn't any reason to assume that. That Gin (presumably) has sexual fantasies about Shiho says nothing; people have sexual fantasies about hot celebrities all the time. It's not even guaranteed that Gin and Shiho had ever even met prior to Episode 178; Gin could've seen a picture of Sherry and used his imagination for the rest, and Sherry could've simply heard that a guy named Gin hunts down people who betray the BO, and perhaps seen a picture of him somewhere. Shiho's comments on the rooftop could be interpreted as "My, what a gentleman you are", a sarcastic remark considering that he was about to kill her. Or, she could've been aware of his attraction for her, so she decided to mock him in her final moments.
She sighed. "Unfortunately, in this desperate war we can't afford the luxury of inefficiency."
"And is love...inefficient?" he asked.
She smiled. "Of course. It's one of the most inefficient and troublesome things that there is. But without love, few things are possible, and that which can be done without love is done without reason."
Spoiler:
My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He can swing his handgun all over the place and rapidly fire in multiple directions with high accuracy, and he's also an expert in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't even try to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland.
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection.
Serinox
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Serinox » August 28th, 2016, 8:26 pm

Swagnarok wrote:I'm skeptical of the "Gin and Sherry were lovers" theory for several reasons.

First, it isn't Gosho Aoyama's style.

Except if you look at my post at the top of this page, when asked about it by fans Gosho has confirmed that they indeed had a relationship.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Swagnarok » August 28th, 2016, 8:48 pm

Serinox wrote:
Swagnarok wrote:I'm skeptical of the "Gin and Sherry were lovers" theory for several reasons.

First, it isn't Gosho Aoyama's style.

Except if you look at my post at the top of this page, when asked about it by fans Gosho has confirmed that they indeed had a relationship.


Yes, but it might not be so cut and dry. "Relationship" is a relatively broad term. You have a relationship to your mother, father, and siblings. You have a relationship to your friends.
He confirmed that Sherry and Gin had a connection, but they were not necessarily in a relationship. Gosho Aoyama has a tendency to give evasive answers so as to not reveal too much.
She sighed. "Unfortunately, in this desperate war we can't afford the luxury of inefficiency."
"And is love...inefficient?" he asked.
She smiled. "Of course. It's one of the most inefficient and troublesome things that there is. But without love, few things are possible, and that which can be done without love is done without reason."
Spoiler:
My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He can swing his handgun all over the place and rapidly fire in multiple directions with high accuracy, and he's also an expert in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't even try to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland.
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby k11chi » August 29th, 2016, 12:44 am

Gin definitely had met her prior to that as Conan said even normally it shouldn't be possible for anyone to track someone based on a hair...
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Miliolina » August 29th, 2016, 7:05 am

Hm...

I would not interprete too much into Gin recognizing Sherrys hair. I can imagine him simply combining it must be her.

- He sees the footprints around his car: Someone looked into his car. Not that surprising since the car is very rare, especially in Japan.
- He calls Pisco and talks about APTX 4869. He does not expect Sherry to show up, but has her somewhere in his mind, because she developed the drug.
- He sees a hair which is not his or Vodka's or Vermouth's . Since he is the car owner he knows who entered his car since the last time he cleaned it (I can imagine him doing that on a regular basis ;D ) and therefore could have lost that hair.
- He wonders why it is there. If you are a regular car thief, you break into the car and steal it. Or something that is in the car (like the radio etc.). But everything seems like usual. So he deduces that something has been placed in the car (the BO members probably use bugs on a regular basis themselves and have to be cautious since they know there are FBI investigations going on etc.) and searches for bugs where he found the hair. Since it is not "FBI-like" to wrap a bug and a transmitter into chewing gum, he concludes that this is not FBI but probably someone who loathes the BO for some reason... And this leads him to think it's Sherry.

And he only needs to know her hair color and approximate hair length aswell as the fact that she is on the run and knows he drives a Porsche 356a.

First, it isn't Gosho Aoyama's style. Premarital sex (if someone was in a relationship with Gin, it'd almost definitely be sexual) was practically nonexistent among the main cast of Detective Conan until recent developments involving Takagi and Sato.


I thought it was kind of confirmed that Gin and Vermouth have been in a sexual relationship.?

Unless we are to assume that Shiho never told Akemi about her fling with Gin; if it was consensual and if Shiho actually had feelings for Gin at the time, there's no reason to think that she'd keep it a total secret from her only friend in the world (at the very least she'd say something like "I'm going out with a friend from work").


Maybe Gin told Sherry not to tell anyone, especially her sister. I mean, she was dating Akai. If Gin knew this, then it would be just logical, especially after Akai's cover was blown. Akemi still managed to communicate with Akai after that.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Wakarimashita » August 29th, 2016, 8:02 am

Regarding Gin and Vermouth, it pretty much is confirmed. The 'Martini' line + the Conan drill both point to it.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Swagnarok » August 29th, 2016, 3:28 pm

Wakarimashita wrote:Regarding Gin and Vermouth, it pretty much is confirmed. The 'Martini' line + the Conan drill both point to it.


That is correct. However, Gin is evil and Vermouth is semi-evil. In Gosholand (to quote someone else here), good guys are chaste until marriage and bad guys are promiscuous and just plain "dirty" sexually speaking. Ai wa kurayami no naka de (which could be considered the "theme song" of the Black Organisation) went so far as to reference BDSM.
Sherry spent her entire life among the bad guys, and she did develop APTX-4869 for them, but she was never a villain herself. She went so far as to claim that it was never her intention to create a killer drug, and if I recall episode 129 correctly she was visibly upset when Conan called her a murderer.
She sighed. "Unfortunately, in this desperate war we can't afford the luxury of inefficiency."
"And is love...inefficient?" he asked.
She smiled. "Of course. It's one of the most inefficient and troublesome things that there is. But without love, few things are possible, and that which can be done without love is done without reason."
Spoiler:
My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Character key for my DC stories:
Yoshiteru Nichimura: Japanese-American CIA agent, Hidemi's colleague and former boyfriend. Known among the ranks of the CIA as "Grim Reaper", from his skull-like face and his deadly short-range combat skills. He can swing his handgun all over the place and rapidly fire in multiple directions with high accuracy, and he's also an expert in the Israeli martial art form called Krav Maga. However, he has no talent as a sniper, and he doesn't even try to be one.
Ryan Jackson: African-American CIA agent and director of CIA operations in Japan involving the Black Organisation. He was once good friends with Ethan Hondou, who taught him how to charge at a gunman without getting hit. He was an army chaplain who served in Iraq, seeing combat on numerous occasions, most notably during the Second Battle of Fallujah. He's been a lifelong resident of Metairie, LA, and he's married with several children. He graduated from Loyola University Maryland.
Elena and Atsushi Miyano: Faked their deaths and now secretly lead a "White Organisation" against the Men in Black. Parents of Akemi, Shiho, and Satoshi Miyano.
ELXR-0666: A drug developed by the BO that can revive the dead, the ultimate aim of their research and development of APTX-4869.
Nancy Akechi: Ran Mouri, revived by ELXR-0666 and then shrunken to a 7/8 year old by APTX-4869. Lives with Conan and her two parents, who are unaware of her true identity. Is the sixth member of the "Detective Boys".
Cognac: Shinichi Kudo made a bargain with Elena Miyano: Join the BO in exchange for the drug that could revive Ran from the dead. He became a Black Crow under the codename Cognac, specialising in using his detective skills to investigate matters important to the Organisation.
Antichrist: An ancient hominid species very closely related to Homo Sapiens. They were biologically indistinguishable from human beings, except for the presence of the "Altar Organ", an internal bodily organ that allowed them to replace one of their other body parts, even the brain, with a corresponding one belonging to another person upon consuming said replacement body part. This species went extinct long ago, but they are relevant to the BO's plans today.
Yoko Okino: Boss of the Black Organisation upon the death of Korn, who in turn succeeded Pisco. Codename: Cabernet Sauvignon. Her mother was a member of the BO Council, and she raised her daughter to worship the Ancient Canaanite gods. Yoko's philosophy was also shaped by something that she witnessed as a child, the bullying of one of her classmates that led to suicide. She represents the "young blood" of the Organisation, and her religious fervour sets her apart from the Council, which consists of elderly and middle-aged bureaucrats and businessmen. She sees them as heretics.
Mezcal: Biochemist who assumed control of the APTX-4869 project upon Sherry's defection.

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