Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

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irishock
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Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby irishock » September 20th, 2015, 4:58 am

I always thought that time when Gin imagined a top-less Sherry was just Gin being a sick bastard per usual, and not alluding to a possible previous romance angle between the two. Or is there some damning evidence that they had something going on at some point?
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 20th, 2015, 6:38 pm

irishock wrote:I always thought that time when Gin imagined a top-less Sherry was just Gin being a sick bastard per usual, and not alluding to a possible previous romance angle between the two. Or is there some damning evidence that they had something going on at some point?


The case you're referring to (Hotel Party Murder Case/Reunion with the Black Organization; Volume 24, File 238–File 242/Season 7, Episode 176–Episode 178) is what formed the basis of the theory that Gin and Shiho/Ai/Sherry had a relationship—Gin thinking of her naked, his recognition of her just by a single hair of hers, and their brief conversation on the roof.

Gin doesn't appear that often, of course, so apart from this and Mystery Train (him imagining her naked, again, in File 820), there weren't any references to it, beyond Hotel Party Murder Case/Reunion with the Black Organization. Over a decade and a half, this question still remains unanswered—I think Shinichi/Conan was going to ask her about it in File 242/Episode 178, but was interrupted before he could.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Serinox » September 20th, 2015, 6:47 pm

I'll quote this from the DCW Wiki about Gin and Sherry:

"A more official confirmation they may have had a relationship was given in the official Detective Conan guidebook Conan Drill. On page 239, there is a diagram of the relationships between various Black Organization members. Gin's feelings towards Shiho were listed as "abnormal attachment" and her feelings for him were "hatred". It also stated they may have had a love affair or relationship and that perhaps Shiho and Vermouth were love rivals.

Vermouth and Gin's love relationship arrow was labeled "sexual relations" (肉体関係) so if Gin was in a relationship with Shiho as well, Vermouth would have been love rivals with Shiho over Gin."

Atleast for me, this was always the most "proof" of a relationship between the two, aside from their conversation on the rooftop.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby CoolKid94 » September 21st, 2015, 12:38 pm

My personal theory on this is that Vermouth and Gin were lovers while Sherry was just the object of Gin's perverted lust. Basically, Gin was with Vermouth, but was pursuing Sherry rather creepily on the side. That's why Haibara is so scared of Gin: he was obsessed with her to the point of stalking. It also gives an extra reason for Vermouth to hate her apart from the whole 'not-aging' thing that hasn't ever been talked about.

There are two main pieces of evidence I'm using for this. First, Haibara has never shown anything other than absolute fear/loathing of Gin. While this could be from her being fearful of him since she's a traitor, it seems to run deeper than that. The second bit of evidence is that Gin always seems to think of Sherry pervertedly. He imagines her naked and even basically calls her a 'scarlet woman' in Haibara's dream in the first chapter of the hotel case. This seems to show he has an abnormal attraction to Sherry that's different than that of former lovers.

That's just my theory, though, so feel free to pick it apart. ;)
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Kleene Onigiri » September 21st, 2015, 12:58 pm

If I remember correctly, the Guidebook also had something like "trusted colleagues" between Gin and Vermouth. And we know how much they "trust" each other...
So that guidebook was never an official or good source for me personally that proves anything. All that the book gave us is the question if they had a relationship. But DC readers already had that question in mind. But the book gives no answers at all.

The fact that Shiho was shown naked doesn't mean anything either, considering Vermouth was also shown naked when it was unclear who she disguised as.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 22nd, 2015, 8:45 am

Still, the "love rivals" thing from Conan drill... and the subtext of their conversation on the roof...
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Kahomi » September 27th, 2015, 6:17 am

Kleene Onigiri wrote:The fact that Shiho was shown naked doesn't mean anything either, considering Vermouth was also shown naked when it was unclear who she disguised as.


I remember someone said that Gin only thought of Sherry naked, even Vermouth didn't appear naked in his thoughts [I don't remember such details so I'm not sure if it's right], so that's why it had a meaning ~~
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 27th, 2015, 12:53 pm

Kleene Onigiri wrote:The fact that Shiho was shown naked doesn't mean anything either, considering Vermouth was also shown naked when it was unclear who she disguised as.


Bourbon seeing Vermouth naked... hmm... I wonder about the implications of that.

Jodie was shown naked on Page 1 of File 341, as well... I don't know why she and Vermouth were shown in this way, at this time.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby PirateKing » September 27th, 2015, 1:31 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Bourbon seeing Vermouth naked... hmm... I wonder about the implications of that.

Jodie was shown naked on Page 1 of File 341, as well... I don't know why she and Vermouth were shown in this way, at this time.


Wasn't it just to confuse the reader and make them wonder if Jodie and Vermouth were the same person? I mean, there were some heavy red-herrings that Jodie was Vermouth. So wasn't this just one of them? Anyway, the case involved Jodie being partially naked (since she was taking a bath), so it might have been a reference to that as well.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby AICHAN » September 27th, 2015, 2:23 pm

In some interview Gosho said he'll explain what kind of relationship Gin and Sherry had in the past,so for me that means they were more than simple collegues.It could be anything,but we don't have something solid to make a theory.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby usotsuki » September 27th, 2015, 4:34 pm

I know "It's a big secret, I'm sorry, I can't tell you... A secret makes a woman woman" (230-231) was a red herring that was explained in 345...
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Kahomi » September 28th, 2015, 12:36 pm

AICHAN wrote:In some interview Gosho said he'll explain what kind of relationship Gin and Sherry had in the past,so for me that means they were more than simple collegues.It could be anything,but we don't have something solid to make a theory.


Yea, maybe Gin babysitted Sherry when she was in America :)) (to me this thing only makes sense if Gin is at least 15 years older than Sherry XD) (and it can be that though, Gin seems in his 30s to me)
Met DC by chance then about 3 hours later it scared the sh*t out of me in Spring 2001 and I ran for my life.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby lovekagakuro » November 14th, 2015, 12:26 pm

I have read sooo many fanfics that I just hope their relationship should not be TOO twisted! I mean it probably can be.. But I agree with Kahomi's theory..
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby Kleene Onigiri » November 17th, 2015, 7:53 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:The fact that Shiho was shown naked doesn't mean anything either, considering Vermouth was also shown naked when it was unclear who she disguised as.


Bourbon seeing Vermouth naked... hmm... I wonder about the implications of that.

Jodie was shown naked on Page 1 of File 341, as well... I don't know why she and Vermouth were shown in this way, at this time.


In all 3 cases (Shiho, Jodie and Vermouth), the status or the "disguise" wasn't clear to the reader and/or character that was thinking about them. It's a common manga thing that mangakas are doing (at least in the past).
Even when James was talking about Akemi and Shiho (Chapter 599, page 10~) they are shown as black silhouettes but you can see that they are naked as well... So James also had a relationship with Akemi AND Shiho?
How screwed up is this logic 'shown "naked" = lovers'?

Again, this doesn't mean Gin didn't have a relationship with Shiho. But saying they definitely had because of that one panel is faulty.
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Re: Have people misinterpreted the Gin/Sherry shenanigans?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » November 17th, 2015, 7:49 pm

Kleene Onigiri wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Kleene Onigiri wrote:The fact that Shiho was shown naked doesn't mean anything either, considering Vermouth was also shown naked when it was unclear who she disguised as.


Bourbon seeing Vermouth naked... hmm... I wonder about the implications of that.

Jodie was shown naked on Page 1 of File 341, as well... I don't know why she and Vermouth were shown in this way, at this time.


In all 3 cases (Shiho, Jodie and Vermouth), the status or the "disguise" wasn't clear to the reader and/or character that was thinking about them. It's a common manga thing that mangakas are doing (at least in the past).
Even when James was talking about Akemi and Shiho (Chapter 599, page 10~) they are shown as black silhouettes but you can see that they are naked as well... So James also had a relationship with Akemi AND Shiho?
How screwed up is this logic 'shown "naked" = lovers'?

Again, this doesn't mean Gin didn't have a relationship with Shiho. But saying they definitely had because of that one panel is faulty.


And so is Ran (File 337), so, yes, that single panel being the ultimate proof would be incorrect.

Still, there's plenty of subtext—like his line "that janitor's uniform doesn't suit you..."
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)

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