Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Does anyone have translations for Pages 13 and 14 of File 929? I probably just sound nagging, though...
It's hard to tell if Shukichi could've been talking with Masumi and Yumi at the same time.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Does anyone have translations for Pages 13 and 14 of File 929? I probably just sound nagging, though...
It's hard to tell if Shukichi could've been talking with Masumi and Yumi at the same time.
Spoiler:
according to the summary of the file from the website 2ch that Fuji translated at the C-box a little while ago
""Shuukichi only appears on the phone. Yumi and Sera call him at practically the same time. Yumi gets through first, gets puts on hold, he talks to Sera, hangs up, talks to Yumi again.""
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
Does anyone have translations for Pages 13 and 14 of File 929? I probably just sound nagging, though...
It's hard to tell if Shukichi could've been talking with Masumi and Yumi at the same time.
Spoiler:
according to the summary of the file from the website 2ch that Fuji translated at the C-box a little while ago
""Shuukichi only appears on the phone. Yumi and Sera call him at practically the same time. Yumi gets through first, gets puts on hold, he talks to Sera, hangs up, talks to Yumi again.""
I saw that, but I did not observe...
Spoiler:
Did a very rough translation with an app on my phone (well, I tried to), and I can't imagine who else Shukichi would be receiving a call from but Masumi, but this is without a proper translation, so...
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Juuuuuuuuuuust in case the resolution turns out to be completely different from what is mostly accepted at this point, here's how you could explain the phone call.
Yumi calls Shuukichi. Then someone else calls him (Conan established in the first file that Shuukichi is probably getting a lot of interview requests). Yumi gets put on hold, Shuukichi dismisses interview caller, and gets back to Yumi. On Sera's end, mid bro is simply too busy at the moment to talk cause as Sera established, dude's busy.
That'd be a pretty big coincidence overall, but even without this, it's also a coincidence mid bro and Shuukichi say the same phrase, etc. (Of course, Conan encountering Shuukichi in the first place was also a pretty big coincidence.)
Explanations given by Presumenothing at the spoiler c-box
Spoiler:
#929: apparently, cause of death was the victim falling backwards during the struggle and hitting her head on the stairs (official, from the medical examiner) - she was still wearing her shoes so she hadn't entered the house yet...
#929: about the suspects - the hostess used to work at the same place as the victim until last year, the employee was a regular there who frequently requested for the victim, and the convenience store where the part-timer worked was directly in front of her house
so all three of them are likely to have known her schedule, though the convenience store closed down a few days before the incident
#929: Shuukichi left the store about one minute before the three suspects came, ran over when Yumi tripped, said he'd passed someone suspicious but it was too dark to see clearly - he had only heard footsteps, and the person appears to have left a roll of tape behind
#929: when Yumi calls Shuukichi, he says that remembers a strange clicking sound when the culprit ran - which immediately makes Conan and Sera think of looking in the toilet tank
from their thoughts on the last page, waving the hose was to prevent this (referring to the shiny thing) from being left at the scene, and the culprit is still returning to the ramen shop, which means that s/he hasn't been able to retrieve the treasure yet
EDIT:
Kor wrote:
Spoiler:
Juuuuuuuuuuust in case the resolution turns out to be completely different from what is mostly accepted at this point, here's how you could explain the phone call.
Yumi calls Shuukichi. Then someone else calls him (Conan established in the first file that Shuukichi is probably getting a lot of interview requests). Yumi gets put on hold, Shuukichi dismisses interview caller, and gets back to Yumi. On Sera's end, mid bro is simply too busy at the moment to talk cause as Sera established, dude's busy.
That'd be a pretty big coincidence overall, but even without this, it's also a coincidence mid bro and Shuukichi say the same phrase, etc. (Of course, Conan encountering Shuukichi in the first place was also a pretty big coincidence.)
Im almost willing to concede at this point given how Gosho is litterally just toying with us at this point, by trying to make it absolutely impossible to let us believe it could be anyone else, but won't just come out and say it.
but just in case...
Spoiler:
In this case we have confirmation that Shuukichi is still comes to this ramen restaurant even at its new location. Masumi is also apparently a regular there because the cook knows her order (even if he doesn't know her name). Is it at all possible that Masumi has met Shuukichi at the ramen place and would know his appearance and possibly even his favorite quote? And then the part that Kor explains above comes in to explain the phone call...
However I don't know anymore..... it would be a really big coincidence at this point, also it would mean that Masumi lied to a police officer, which would be a bit different that lying to Conan or something.....
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
Conan encountering Shuukichi in the first place was also a pretty big coincidence.
Spoiler:
Would you agree that the entire series is based on coincidences? For you, is it just a matter of too many, poor execution, or something else, entirely?
Let's see...
—Gin and Vodka just happen go to Tropical Land to make a deal the same day Shinichi and Ran go, leading to... the rest of the series
—Tequila just happens to be killed by accident, leading to Shinichi's/Conan's probing into Suguru Itakura's connection to the BO in The Dark Footprint
—Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai just happen to pass Gin's Porsche 356A, leading to the Hotel Party Murder Case/Reunion with the Black Organization
—Suguru Itakura just happens to be murdered in The Dark Footprint, leading to Meeting with Vodka/Contact with the Black Organization, and Shinichi's/Conan's discovery of Itakura's dangerous program and a hint to the Organization's goal
—Ran just happens to see Jodie's copies of Vermouth's photographs, leading to her saving Shiho/Ai
—Shinichi/Conan just happens to forget the transmitter/listening device he planted for the ding dong dash case, leading to the events of the Kir arc and beyond
—The apartment Shuichi/Subaru is living in just happens to burn down, leading to Shuichi's/Subaru's move into the Kudo house, and his interactions with other characters, thus giving Bourbon what he needs to track him down
I don't think how Shinichi/Conan met Shukichi is that radical a deviation from the pattern (Correct me if you weren't saying that).
This, though, could be used to say Shukichi just happened to get an interview request, and if Masumi isn't making up her middle brother's description, then then her middle brother just happens to be extremely similar, at least, to Shukichi. Still, if so, why wasn't this character introduced in the past 60-70 files? This may be a pointless mystery, but at least then it would be a mystery with Shukichi and a lookalike.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Im almost willing to concede at this point given how Gosho is litterally just toying with us at this point, by trying to make it absolutely impossible to let us believe it could be anyone else, but won't just come out and say it.
but just in case...
Spoiler:
In this case we have confirmation that Shuukichi is still comes to this ramen restaurant even at its new location. Masumi is also apparently a regular there because the cook knows her order (even if he doesn't know her name). Is it at all possible that Masumi has met Shuukichi at the ramen place and would know his appearance and possibly even his favorite quote? And then the part that Kor explains above comes in to explain the phone call...
However I don't know anymore..... it would be a really big coincidence at this point, also it would mean that Masumi lied to a police officer, which would be a bit different that lying to Conan or something.....
Spoiler:
Question is, why would Masumi even lie to Shinichi/Conan, let alone Yumi?
As for Shukichi getting an interview request, couldn't he simply ignore this one? Couldn't he just wait and call them back later?
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on August 25th, 2015, 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
1. It is not confirmed that the Mystery girl's name is Mary. However it is highly likely that it could be because of the hint that her name in katakana should end with "〇〇リー” or "rii" (ri, followed by a long mark) and that there have been hints that she is related to Britain, an englsih speaking country, which could imply an english name. Its just not confirmed officially anywhere.
2. Mari and Mary are two different names. Mari is most likely a japanese name and is spelled "マリ" and Mary is an english language name and is spelled as ”メアリー” in Japanese katakana. The much similar spelling in english letters is coincidence.
3. Its pretty unlikely that Ogura is mistaking Masumi for Mystery girl.
a: If by some odd coincidence that he is talking about Mystery girl then he has both the person and the name wrong, as the names Mari and the assumed Mystery Girl name "Mary" are not the same, which would imply that he has a really bad memory. It is possible that they might be close in age, it is even possible that they may have lived in this area a long time ago and even possible that they might have known each other, but basing it on the idea that he calls someone else a name that might be similar to a another name (despite having different pronunciations) that is not even confirmed yet is a bit of a stretch in my book.
b: He doesn't even seem to care that he got Masumi's name wrong in the first place, and doesn't even apologize and then calls her the same name again. Most likely there is another reason he called Masumi that name and it may be related to something from his life or to another customer that is unrelated.
(separate from above)
4. Its unlikely that Mystery Girl is currently a regular customer at the ramen shop. She seems to be pretty hell-bent on staying out of sight of most people. Plus the implication that Masumi, a regular, always takes food home with her would imply that the Mystery Girl would never need to leave her room in order to get food.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:putting all of this in one post for convenience.
Spoiler:
1. It is not confirmed that the Mystery girl's name is Mary. However it is highly likely that it could be because of the hint that her name in katakana should end with "〇〇リー” or "rii" (ri, followed by a long mark) and that there have been hints that she is related to Britain, an englsih speaking country, which could imply an english name. Its just not confirmed officially anywhere.
2. Mari and Mary are two different names. Mari is most likely a japanese name and is spelled "マリ" and Mary is an english language name and is spelled as ”メアリー” in Japanese katakana. The much similar spelling in english letters is coincidence.
3. Its pretty unlikely that Ogura is mistaking Masumi for Mystery girl.
a: If by some odd coincidence that he is talking about Mystery girl then he has both the person and the name wrong, as the names Mari and the assumed Mystery Girl name "Mary" are not the same, which would imply that he has a really bad memory. It is possible that they might be close in age, it is even possible that they may have lived in this area a long time ago and even possible that they might have known each other, but basing it on the idea that he calls someone else a name that might be similar to a another name (despite having different pronunciations) that is not even confirmed yet is a bit of a stretch in my book.
b: He doesn't even seem to care that he got Masumi's name wrong in the first place, and doesn't even apologize and then calls her the same name again. Most likely there is another reason he called Masumi that name and it may be related to something from his life or to another customer that is unrelated.
(separate from above)
4. Its unlikely that Mystery Girl is currently a regular customer at the ramen shop. She seems to be pretty hell-bent on staying out of sight of most people. Plus the implication that Masumi, a regular, always takes food home with her would imply that the Mystery Girl would never need to leave her room in order to get food.
Spoiler:
You are correct, but that makes it weirder, like who is this Mari that he mistook Sera for? Or is there another reason why he called her Mari? Do you think it might only be related to the case and nothing more?
So Mari is pronounced "Ma-ri", and Mary is pronounced "Mé-a-ri" right? It's quite different, so maybe he just saw the name written and thought it's Mari instead of Mary?
Met DC by chance then about 3 hours later it scared the sh*t out of me in Spring 2001 and I ran for my life.
But boredom made me come to it once again in Winter 2004.
And I fell for it. Ever since then. Though sometimes it still frightens me like the first time
a completely separate thought about the middle brother
Spoiler:
in chapter 928 we have Yumi and Masumi giving very similar descriptions of the person they are thinking of and they
happen to be very similar descriptions, complete with the same favorite phrase
in chapter 929, Yumi says the name "Chuukichi" out loud and Masumi repeats it. Now Masumi is supposed to be a detective...
don't you think that if Masumi had a brother was named "Shuukichi" and fit the same descriptions, that she would have said something?
From her point of view the coincidences would be adding up to a point where there would be no question.
However, knowing all of this, and hearing Conan suggest that Yumi should call her ex-boyfriend, her first decision is to call
her brother as well, which would be pointless if she had even considered that they were the same person.
Shuukichi has just won not only the 7th shogi title match, but now has all 7 titles, people could want interviews
which could easily explain why he has a call on the other line when Yumi calls him.
Masumi has been told that her brother is on a "tough job" of some kind which prevents him from meeting her or her living with him
which if he is staying in hiding, this would kind of force all people to communicate with him by phone, explaining his end of the call
The most annoying part of all of this for me is that the "middle brother" only seems to have been first mentioned after Mystery Train.
Where as Masumi brought up her mother existing from the beginning and information about a brother that sent her Jeet-kune-do
tapes came up soon after that. Heck even Shuukichi was mentioned as far back as in the chapter before Eisuke's first appearance.
The whole "middle brother" thing just kind of appeared after characters had been established and we are just supposed to accept
that they have never been brought up before at all but have been biologically related the whole time? I just really don't like the whole
"middle brother" thing at all anymore, regardless who it turns out to be.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:a completely separate thought about the middle brother
Spoiler:
in chapter 928 we have Yumi and Masumi giving very similar descriptions of the person they are thinking of and they
happen to be very similar descriptions, complete with the same favorite phrase
in chapter 929, Yumi says the name "Chuukichi" out loud and Masumi repeats it. Now Masumi is supposed to be a detective...
don't you think that if Masumi had a brother was named "Shuukichi" and fit the same descriptions, that she would have said something?
From her point of view the coincidences would be adding up to a point where there would be no question.
However, knowing all of this, and hearing Conan suggest that Yumi should call her ex-boyfriend, her first decision is to call
her brother as well, which would be pointless if she had even considered that they were the same person.
Shuukichi has just won not only the 7th shogi title match, but now has all 7 titles, people could want interviews
which could easily explain why he has a call on the other line when Yumi calls him.
Masumi has been told that her brother is on a "tough job" of some kind which prevents him from meeting her or her living with him
which if he is staying in hiding, this would kind of force all people to communicate with him by phone, explaining his end of the call
The most annoying part of all of this for me is that the "middle brother" only seems to have been first mentioned after Mystery Train.
Where as Masumi brought up her mother existing from the beginning and information about a brother that sent her Jeet-kune-do
tapes came up soon after that. Heck even Shuukichi was mentioned as far back as in the chapter before Eisuke's first appearance.
The whole "middle brother" thing just kind of appeared after characters had been established and we are just supposed to accept
that they have never been brought up before at all but have been biologically related the whole time? I just really don't like the whole
"middle brother" thing at all anymore, regardless who it turns out to be.
Spoiler:
You're right—it's not really much of a mystery. Either it's Shukichi, it's a Shukichi clone that's likely going to be introduced next chapter, or Masumi's lying about the whole middle brother thing (and it would need to be explained why she lied, including to Yumi), and she's been in contact with Shuichi/Subaru, as you've theorized.
Here's some comments I made about the whole issue on the Detective Conan: The Red Thread Facebook Page.
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Honestly, Shukichi might as well have not been introduced until the Rum arc. I'm sure people would not have minded as much if the middle brother question only lasted for 20-30 files rather than 70-80.
You could've had: Shukichi's Intro, Files 896–898 (case after Scarlet Showdown) or Files 911–913 (case after Kawanakajima Murder Case), Shogi case, Files 924–927 (case after the Secret of a Big Couple), then, finally, this case, Files 928–930. These different file numbers account for the removal of Shukichi's intro and the Shogi case from their original placements.
The middle brother question could've been suspenseful from File 860 to Shukichi's introduction (896 or 911), though, had he been introduced later.
Literally—for the past month, we could've had the Shogi case and this case back to back. That hint at the end of the Shogi case would've immediately been bookended by the hints (and very likely resolution) of this case.
The introduction of other suspects certainly would've helped—this hypothetical Shukichi clone that may be introduced next file could've been introduced just after the reveal that Masumi had a middle brother.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
You're right—it's not really much of a mystery. Either it's Shukichi, it's a Shukichi clone that's likely going to be introduced next chapter, or Masumi's lying about the whole middle brother thing (and it would need to be explained why she lied, including to Yumi), and she's been in contact with Shuichi/Subaru, as you've theorized.
Here's some comments I made about the whole issue on the Detective Conan: The Red Thread Facebook Page.
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Honestly, Shukichi might as well have not been introduced until the Rum arc. I'm sure people would not have minded as much if the middle brother question only lasted for 20-30 files rather than 70-80.
You could've had: Shukichi's Intro, Files 896–898 (case after Scarlet Showdown) or Files 911–913 (case after Kawanakajima Murder Case), Shogi case, Files 924–927 (case after the Secret of a Big Couple), then, finally, this case, Files 928–930. These different file numbers account for the removal of Shukichi's intro and the Shogi case from their original placements.
The middle brother question could've been suspenseful from File 860 to Shukichi's introduction (896 or 911), though, had he been introduced later.
Literally—for the past month, we could've had the Shogi case and this case back to back. That hint at the end of the Shogi case would've immediately been bookended by the hints (and very likely resolution) of this case.
The introduction of other suspects certainly would've helped—this hypothetical Shukichi clone that may be introduced next file could've been introduced just after the reveal that Masumi had a middle brother.
It still kind of bothers me in an interesting kind of way that Yumi having an ex-boyfriend as early as ch506
The next case after that one was one that introduced Eisuke (although his outline appeared at the end of that case)
and both of them happen to have circular glasses and similar eyes.
At that point Masumi had not even been created yet. In fact the case that created the popular need for
a female detective wasn't until about 60 chapters after the "Ex-boyfriend" was first mentioned (562-566).
And then Masumi introduced 200 chapters after that (768).
I wonder, if they do end up being related, at what point was the point that he had decided it?
having actually mentioned Shuukichi so early, I wonder if he originally had some other plan for
the "ex-boyfirend" before deciding to getting this far in to the full family of Shuuichi?
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:It still kind of bothers me in an interesting kind of way that Yumi having an ex-boyfriend as early as ch506
The next case after that one was one that introduced Eisuke (although his outline appeared at the end of that case)
and both of them happen to have circular glasses and similar eyes.
At that point Masumi had not even been created yet. In fact the case that created the popular need for
a female detective wasn't until about 60 chapters after the "Ex-boyfriend" was first mentioned (562-566).
And then Masumi introduced 200 chapters after that (768).
I wonder, if they do end up being related, at what point was the point that he had decided it?
having actually mentioned Shuukichi so early, I wonder if he originally had some other plan for
the "ex-boyfirend" before deciding to getting this far in to the full family of Shuuichi?
Given how late Gosho lets his Chekhov's guns fire, it's hard to say. Do you have a guess?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Juuuuuuuuuuust in case the resolution turns out to be completely different from what is mostly accepted at this point, here's how you could explain the phone call.
Yumi calls Shuukichi. Then someone else calls him (Conan established in the first file that Shuukichi is probably getting a lot of interview requests). Yumi gets put on hold, Shuukichi dismisses interview caller, and gets back to Yumi. On Sera's end, mid bro is simply too busy at the moment to talk cause as Sera established, dude's busy.
That'd be a pretty big coincidence overall, but even without this, it's also a coincidence mid bro and Shuukichi say the same phrase, etc. (Of course, Conan encountering Shuukichi in the first place was also a pretty big coincidence.)
The next time we heard about it, that phrase is actually a quote from Yusaku's Novel, so it's common phrase for fans lol.
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:The most annoying part of all of this for me is that the "middle brother" only seems to have been first mentioned after Mystery Train.
Where as Masumi brought up her mother existing from the beginning and information about a brother that sent her Jeet-kune-do
tapes came up soon after that.
Now that you mention it.... It's indeed weird that sera didn't mention the middle brother at all in the beginning....