Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
k11chi
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby k11chi » October 27th, 2015, 8:59 am

irishock wrote:Hopefully Chap 1000: Ran reveals she has known about Conan's identity for a long time

I have a feeling that that might actually really happen, it seems like that's what's been hinted at (Ran making that joke about finding out the identity is someone pretends to be someone they're not to Conan) and why Shinichi hasn't appeared in a while in the current timeline.
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 27th, 2015, 12:33 pm

k11chi wrote:
irishock wrote:Hopefully Chap 1000: Ran reveals she has known about Conan's identity for a long time

I have a feeling that that might actually really happen, it seems like that's what's been hinted at (Ran making that joke about finding out the identity is someone pretends to be someone they're not to Conan) and why Shinichi hasn't appeared in a while in the current timeline.


The events of Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case (File 812–File 814/Episode 690 and Episode 691) show that it won't take much for her to really start questioning things again.

Another thing—when we reach File 958, the period between it and File 966 will have Ran's last suspicion story (File 479–File 483/Episode 398–Episode 400) as the halfway point of DC.

We've gone 455 Files/397 Episodes without a Ran suspicion story—and we've had Shinichi confess, during that period. This current one has to lead to something big. Why else would there be so many hints/clues during this period?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Antiyonder
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Antiyonder » October 30th, 2015, 9:05 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
irishock wrote:Hopefully Chap 1000: Ran reveals she has known about Conan's identity for a long time


This only could work if her first (File 26–File 29/Episode 7) and third (File 479–File 483/Episode 398–Episode 400) suspicion stories were removed, and Dangerous Cave Case, School Play Case and Elevator Murder Case/The Desperate Revival (File 251–File 260/Episode 188–Episode 193) took place at some point after Following Holmes/Holmes' Revelation (File 743–File 752/Episode 616–Episode 621), from right after (Volume 72), up until the present time (Volume 88).


I don't know. Consider the possibility that part of her wants to be proven right since it means knowing once and for all that Shinichi never left her, while part of her wants to be wrong since it means that he childhood friend has been deceitful, wouldn't it be plausible that Conan's success in throwing her off simply prompts her to go back to denial?

It's easier to believe she's just reaching for an explanation than to acknowledge that Shinichi made a fool out of her and if you lie to yourself enough, it feels like the truth. Kind of like how Conan's rationalization of keeping her in the dark is purely for selfless reasons than to simply admit his failures and dishonesty.

Even moving past the lies and secrets, there's always the chance that Conan may never find a cure (looking from an in-universe perspective), so it's much easier to believe he's simply an above average kid than the guy she has deeper feelings for.
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 30th, 2015, 9:47 pm

Antiyonder wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
irishock wrote:Hopefully Chap 1000: Ran reveals she has known about Conan's identity for a long time


This only could work if her first (File 26–File 29/Episode 7) and third (File 479–File 483/Episode 398–Episode 400) suspicion stories were removed, and Dangerous Cave Case, School Play Case and Elevator Murder Case/The Desperate Revival (File 251–File 260/Episode 188–Episode 193) took place at some point after Following Holmes/Holmes' Revelation (File 743–File 752/Episode 616–Episode 621), from right after (Volume 72), up until the present time (Volume 88).


I don't know. Consider the possibility that part of her wants to be proven right since it means knowing once and for all that Shinichi never left her, while part of her wants to be wrong since it means that he childhood friend has been deceitful, wouldn't it be plausible that Conan's success in throwing her off simply prompts her to go back to denial?

It's easier to believe she's just reaching for an explanation than to acknowledge that Shinichi made a fool out of her and if you lie to yourself enough, it feels like the truth. Kind of like how Conan's rationalization of keeping her in the dark is purely for selfless reasons than to simply admit his failures and dishonesty.

Even moving past the lies and secrets, there's always the chance that Conan may never find a cure (looking from an in-universe perspective), so it's much easier to believe he's simply an above average kid than the guy she has deeper feelings for.


But that denial is why I discounted the possibility of Ran knowing that Shinichi is Conan from the very start—remove the three suspicion cases (26–29/7; 251–260/188–193; 479–483/398–400) and have Ran give hints (to us) like she did from File 134–File 254 that she knew his identity, then have Desperate Revival at some point after Holmes' Revelation, and have her find out then—I categorize knowing, in this case, as complete and total awareness. It's true—when Shinichi/Conan defuses her suspicions with tricks, she goes back into denial mode, especially after the 2nd time and especially after the 3rd time. It's not a conscious awareness—rather, it's a subconscious one. That's not complete and total awareness. Since File 483, we've been hinted that the unconscious pull of the thought that Shinichi is Conan is a strong one, especially in File 814/Episode 691, which was after File 752/Episode 621—she can't confess to Shinichi anymore than she can actively question Conan's identity. She wants to stay in the safe zone.

If you're talking about "Shinichi = Conan" thoughts always being in the back of her mind, then yes—she's always known, in a way. If you're talking about her consciously and constantly being aware of the fact than Shinichi = Conan since the very beginning, then no.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Stopwatch
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Stopwatch » October 30th, 2015, 9:53 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Antiyonder wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
irishock wrote:Hopefully Chap 1000: Ran reveals she has known about Conan's identity for a long time


This only could work if her first (File 26–File 29/Episode 7) and third (File 479–File 483/Episode 398–Episode 400) suspicion stories were removed, and Dangerous Cave Case, School Play Case and Elevator Murder Case/The Desperate Revival (File 251–File 260/Episode 188–Episode 193) took place at some point after Following Holmes/Holmes' Revelation (File 743–File 752/Episode 616–Episode 621), from right after (Volume 72), up until the present time (Volume 88).


I don't know. Consider the possibility that part of her wants to be proven right since it means knowing once and for all that Shinichi never left her, while part of her wants to be wrong since it means that he childhood friend has been deceitful, wouldn't it be plausible that Conan's success in throwing her off simply prompts her to go back to denial?

It's easier to believe she's just reaching for an explanation than to acknowledge that Shinichi made a fool out of her and if you lie to yourself enough, it feels like the truth. Kind of like how Conan's rationalization of keeping her in the dark is purely for selfless reasons than to simply admit his failures and dishonesty.

Even moving past the lies and secrets, there's always the chance that Conan may never find a cure (looking from an in-universe perspective), so it's much easier to believe he's simply an above average kid than the guy she has deeper feelings for.


But that denial is why I discounted the possibility of Ran knowing that Shinichi is Conan from the very start—remove the three suspicion cases (26–29/7; 251–260/188–193; 479–483/398–400) and have Ran give hints (to us) like she did from File 134–File 254 that she knew his identity, then have Desperate Revival at some point after Holmes' Revelation, and have her find out then—I categorize knowing, in this case, as complete and total awareness. It's true—when Shinichi/Conan defuses her suspicions with tricks, she goes back into denial mode, especially after the 2nd time and especially after the 3rd time. It's not a conscious awareness—rather, it's a subconscious one. That's not complete and total awareness. Since File 483, we've been hinted that the unconscious pull of the thought that Shinichi is Conan is a strong one, especially in File 814/Episode 691, which was after File 752/Episode 621—she can't confess to Shinichi anymore than she can actively question Conan's identity. She wants to stay in the safe zone.

If you're talking about "Shinichi = Conan" thoughts always being in the back of her mind, then yes—she's always known, in a way. If you're talking about her consciously and constantly being aware of the fact than Shinichi = Conan since the very beginning, then no.

The wording irishock uses is "for a long time". They don't claim that Ran would have known from the start in that scenario o.O. Anyway, the conversation's moved on so so shall I.
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presumenothing wrote:killing the entire akai family must be quite the challenging task, you'd first have to figure out who they are...

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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » October 30th, 2015, 10:09 pm

Stopwatch wrote:The wording irishock uses is "for a long time". They don't claim that Ran would have known from the start in that scenario o.O.


But the thing is—does she consciously or unconsciously know "for a long time?" If the former, then no. If the latter, then yes.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
red.orchid
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby red.orchid » November 10th, 2015, 3:46 pm

We have made several important updates under the Volume 48 (File 1) section, as well as additional information & speculation under Ran's ties to the BlackOrg. Also created a new section under Volume 77 named Ran's diary of truth. You're welcome to read and discuss.
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lovekagakuro
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby lovekagakuro » November 14th, 2015, 11:27 am

I really want Ran to come to know about the organisation.. preferably without Conan finding out about it.. I know it would be dangerous.. But the girl can dodge bullets fired at her face for gods sake! She will hopefully play a major role in bringing the org down...
Antiyonder
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Antiyonder » November 23rd, 2015, 11:36 pm

lovekagakuro wrote:I really want Ran to come to know about the organisation.. preferably without Conan finding out about it.. I know it would be dangerous.. But the girl can dodge bullets fired at her face for gods sake! She will hopefully play a major role in bringing the org down...


That I'm not too surprised of possibly happening.

My bigger fear when the revelation comes out is that it will downplay the more problematic aspects of the deception as a necessary evil, and that Ran's anger will be one of minor annoyance. In the same way that someone responds if their friend lied about their cooking or how they look in particular clothing.

She doesn't need to hate him or keep her distance from him, but the narrative would do well to have it be a moment where Conan has to accept that for all of his decency and respectability, he is still a flawed person who is still capable of wronging those that he cares for.

It's another point I like in The Mystery of Conan Edogawa. It's not some quick reveal where Ran basically says "Well, you should have told me, but what's done is done." The moment where the truth finally comes out (or rather Ran finally getting him to give up the deception) is really quite moving even upon rereading. Conan rightfully accepts his mistake and acknowledges that in the end, good intents don't always get one off the hook, plus the two are finally having an honest discussion with no false identities or gadgets.
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
Vi-Greythorn
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Vi-Greythorn » November 24th, 2015, 1:24 am

I think the doubt Ran returned since Chapter 893, through her talk about DNA, It has hinted her to something like this

In my opinion
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Vi-Greythorn » November 24th, 2015, 1:29 am

I think the birthday Ran expected to play a role in this matter
" memories of someone who's passed away remain beautiful forever and a person's heart will linger , over they , they say "
Dak
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Dak » January 29th, 2016, 2:33 pm

This may be a stupid question, but if the next suspicion arc is the last one, how does the show progress from there?
Will there be 100s of episodes/cases/AO's where Ran already knows his identity? Or will it be straight plot involving BO-FBI leading to the show's end?

I was just thinking how strange a regular case would be post-revelation.
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 29th, 2016, 3:28 pm

Dak wrote:This may be a stupid question, but if the next suspicion arc is the last one, how does the show progress from there?
Will there be 100s of episodes/cases/AO's where Ran already knows his identity? Or will it be straight plot involving BO-FBI leading to the show's end?

I was just thinking how strange a regular case would be post-revelation.

Not if she wants some time alone and asks Conan to leave and live with Agasa for the rest of the series!
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » January 29th, 2016, 6:00 pm

Dak wrote:This may be a stupid question, but if the next suspicion arc is the last one, how does the show progress from there?
Will there be 100s of episodes/cases/AO's where Ran already knows his identity? Or will it be straight plot involving BO-FBI leading to the show's end?

I was just thinking how strange a regular case would be post-revelation.


Gosho did that in the period between File 134/Episode 96 and File 256/Episode 191, giving us clues that she believed it. It could happen, again. In terms of events pertaining to these two that would indicate how long DC had left, people thought that when Shinichi confessed to Ran, the series would be on the verge of ending—it's been 200+ files (5+ years) since then. She could very well know who he is—with him being oblivious to her knowledge—going into the climax, and that would be irrespective of whether the final suspicion arc takes place 1 File before the beginning of the end, or 50-100 Files before.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
red.orchid
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby red.orchid » April 9th, 2016, 1:08 pm

I've updated VOLUME 88-89 & 90 (as far as 90 goes, the latest file is File 955). Beware of spoilers. There are several new sections which need to be tended to as well, I'll come back for those later.
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