Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby MeiTanteixX » September 21st, 2017, 9:37 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Spoiler:
If that happens, then what will Gosho do differently?
Spoiler:
Well first of all, the repercussions might be more detrimental, since this would imply to the drugger(if they indeed meet) that APTX doesn't always kill.

Other than that, it's all about context and what kind of problem her reverting back to her original form would momentarily solve. Shiho's was to escape(but accidentally encountered Gin),.. Mary's could be more in line with Shinichi's usual dilemma... preventing the shrinking from being discovered. A more unique and fitting route would be that her goal will be to fight off the drugger in order to keep her daughter out of harms way(which would further emphasize her physical tendencies, like how she handled scolding her son).
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Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
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Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
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Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Nemomon
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Nemomon » September 21st, 2017, 1:45 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, it seemed really strange for her to suddenly be on him like she was in the last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), and then for her to just drop it so quickly—to me, this is Gosho reminding us that, yes, Ran's suspicions are in play... and it's just a question of when they will come into play.


I don't remember about what this ancient case was, but I think it was pretty natural for me that she easily dropped the subject in the current case. She first was happy that Shinichi demanded an answer (which means he really cares about it and her), and second that he explained himself in that TXT message. He didn't disappear without saying a word. Finally, she was happy she was able to kiss him. They're not a pair yet, so they don't kiss each other every now and then. This was a special kiss and for it she thought she might forgive him this one time. She already got enough happiness for today.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
Antiyonder
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Antiyonder » September 21st, 2017, 5:20 pm

Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, it seemed really strange for her to suddenly be on him like she was in the last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), and then for her to just drop it so quickly—to me, this is Gosho reminding us that, yes, Ran's suspicions are in play... and it's just a question of when they will come into play.


I don't remember about what this ancient case was, but I think it was pretty natural for me that she easily dropped the subject in the current case. She first was happy that Shinichi demanded an answer (which means he really cares about it and her), and second that he explained himself in that TXT message. He didn't disappear without saying a word. Finally, she was happy she was able to kiss him. They're not a pair yet, so they don't kiss each other every now and then. This was a special kiss and for it she thought she might forgive him this one time. She already got enough happiness for today.


I'm still not entirely sure that the level of forgiveness is right, but your post does make me at least appreciate reason Ran may feel that way at the moment, so well spoken. ;)
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 22nd, 2017, 3:42 am

Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, it seemed really strange for her to suddenly be on him like she was in the last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), and then for her to just drop it so quickly—to me, this is Gosho reminding us that, yes, Ran's suspicions are in play... and it's just a question of when they will come into play.


I don't remember about what this ancient case was...


http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ction_Case

Guess you must've really considered it a dud if a case from this year is "ancient." Especially considering how small of a time period 8 months is (this "ancient" case came out in January 2017—it's now September 2017), in the context of DC's overall length.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Nemomon
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Nemomon » September 22nd, 2017, 6:12 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, it seemed really strange for her to suddenly be on him like she was in the last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), and then for her to just drop it so quickly—to me, this is Gosho reminding us that, yes, Ran's suspicions are in play... and it's just a question of when they will come into play.


I don't remember about what this ancient case was...


http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ction_Case

Guess you must've really considered it a dud if a case from this year is "ancient." Especially considering how small of a time period 8 months is (this "ancient" case came out in January 2017—it's now September 2017), in the context of DC's overall length.


The "(479–483/398–400)" sounded pretty ancient, You know.. ;).

I wrote that while I was at work, so I didn't really check about what it was.
My dad’s a soldier blue I’ll be a soldier, too
When I grow older you will see me rescue you
I’ll teach you this old song so you can sing along
When I am dead and gone the day won’t be so long.
S.Vineyard
Posts: 183

Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » September 22nd, 2017, 7:38 am

Nemomon wrote:The "(479–483/398–400)" sounded pretty ancient, You know.. ;).


It actually is. But it's still very relevant, since it actually showed Ran's thoughts and her possible motivation not to confront Conan directly.
(She actually only seems to do it, when Conan really completly forgets to hold his mask, which he mostly does in really time pressing cases.)
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 22nd, 2017, 4:05 pm

Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Nemomon wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, it seemed really strange for her to suddenly be on him like she was in the last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), and then for her to just drop it so quickly—to me, this is Gosho reminding us that, yes, Ran's suspicions are in play... and it's just a question of when they will come into play.


I don't remember about what this ancient case was...


http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ction_Case

Guess you must've really considered it a dud if a case from this year is "ancient." Especially considering how small of a time period 8 months is (this "ancient" case came out in January 2017—it's now September 2017), in the context of DC's overall length.


The "(479–483/398–400)" sounded pretty ancient, You know.. ;).


Oh, so you weren't talking about 984–986, there. My bad. :-[
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
S.Vineyard
Posts: 183

Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » September 24th, 2017, 6:20 am

I've been rereading some old stuff and the Kyoto Arc during the past days and I want to go through a bit Shinichi's "hickups" during the latest case.

Spoiler:
Kansei Ben Kissi Kissi

Yeah, one single slip up (forgetting his voice changer under the pillow), let to lots of trouble.

Not only that speaking Kansai Ben was highly suspicious (specially when only a few hours later the gang meets "Mr. Kansai Ben, Shinichi's Best Pal" Heiji Hattori himself.), but then saying "It was my voice, but it wasn't me!"

*Facepalm*

The Sleeves

And then, Masumi starts poking in the wound by mentioning that Shinichi folded his sleeves like a little kid would do. Heck, he can really be glad that Ran started talking about the movie poster.
(The Red Thread people actually think that she might have done this on purpose. Personally I'm not sure about this.)

Ah Le Le

Ok, Shinichi, you have really been Conan far too long. Seriously, changing into "Conan Mode" RIGHT IN FRONT OF RAN AND CO.?
And then look at their faces.

Sonoko: Annoyed. Masumi: Smirking. Ran: Worried (?)

Conclusion:

While it wasn't the first time, that Shinichi slipped up when he was himself again (Calling Ran , "Ran Nee Chan" once, during the Desperate Revivval), this time it was almost as if he's holding up a big sign in front of him with "Hello, I was Conan Edogawa all the time".

Heck, it's actually the first major time, that Ran has indications, that Shinichi is Conan and not visa versa as usual. ("Sleeves, Ah Le Le")

And in conclusion, with the Red Thread Observations in the OP, which Gadgets of Conan Ran is currently aware of, he now might have accidently revealed the indentiy of the Voice Changer to her. (She she might have suspected to exist anyway, if she's really in suspicion mode again.)

Plus: We know Gosho love of planting hints in-universe and out-universe. Things are clearly getting fun again..^^
ShadowNeo
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby ShadowNeo » September 24th, 2017, 7:29 am

S.Vineyard wrote:I've been rereading some old stuff and the Kyoto Arc during the past days and I want to go through a bit Shinichi's "hickups" during the latest case.

Spoiler:
Kansei Ben Kissi Kissi

Yeah, one single slip up (forgetting his voice changer under the pillow), let to lots of trouble.

Not only that speaking Kansai Ben was highly suspicious (specially when only a few hours later the gang meets "Mr. Kansai Ben, Shinichi's Best Pal" Heiji Hattori himself.), but then saying "It was my voice, but it wasn't me!"

*Facepalm*

The Sleeves

And then, Masumi starts poking in the wound by mentioning that Shinichi folded his sleeves like a little kid would do. Heck, he can really be glad that Ran started talking about the movie poster.
(The Red Thread people actually think that she might have done this on purpose. Personally I'm not sure about this.)

Ah Le Le

Ok, Shinichi, you have really been Conan far too long. Seriously, changing into "Conan Mode" RIGHT IN FRONT OF RAN AND CO.?
And then look at their faces.

Sonoko: Annoyed. Masumi: Smirking. Ran: Worried (?)

Conclusion:

While it wasn't the first time, that Shinichi slipped up when he was himself again (Calling Ran , "Ran Nee Chan" once, during the Desperate Revivval), this time it was almost as if he's holding up a big sign in front of him with "Hello, I was Conan Edogawa all the time".

Heck, it's actually the first major time, that Ran has indications, that Shinichi is Conan and not visa versa as usual. ("Sleeves, Ah Le Le")

And in conclusion, with the Red Thread Observations in the OP, which Gadgets of Conan Ran is currently aware of, he now might have accidently revealed the indentiy of the Voice Changer to her. (She she might have suspected to exist anyway, if she's really in suspicion mode again.)

Plus: We know Gosho love of planting hints in-universe and out-universe. Things are clearly getting fun again..^^


Well to be honest, you have to think about that in the DC "reality" there actually is no official way of shrinking/de-aging, just like in our world. So for people like Ran it is hard to believe smth. like that happened/can happen. For people like Masumi/her mother/other people that know about it, it is way easier. So even if Conan/Shinichi slips and gives hints about him being shrunken, it is still not that easy for Ran to be very suspicious, especially after Shinichi made himself appear while Conan was there too (Haibara in disguise, Kaito as Shinichi). What I want to say is that YES there are reasons for Ran to start thinking about shrunk Shinichi, but there is also no evidence for her to actually be sure, especially (as mentioned before) after Shinichi tricked her few times into making her think that Shinichi and Conan cannot be the same by appearing at the same time.
"Fear of death is worse than death Itself"
S.Vineyard
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » September 24th, 2017, 7:46 am

Yeah, but since the "479–483/398–400 aka Cellphone Case", having somebody posing as him isn't quite a valid trick anymore, since "Shinichi is a sneaky person". (Plus, afaik, he did only pose a Shinichi in the Movies/OVA and not in the Manga.)

@Drug: But strangely, Ran actually came up with that solution rather quickly (File 134 and 258).

And as the OP aka the Red Thread Group has pointed out, Ran knows actually already a lot and acted more strangely lately. (Specially that weird laugh at the end of the Eri Abduction case.)
Last edited by S.Vineyard on October 7th, 2017, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » September 24th, 2017, 7:55 am

ShadowNeo wrote:
S.Vineyard wrote:I've been rereading some old stuff and the Kyoto Arc during the past days and I want to go through a bit Shinichi's "hickups" during the latest case.

Spoiler:
Kansei Ben Kissi Kissi

Yeah, one single slip up (forgetting his voice changer under the pillow), let to lots of trouble.

Not only that speaking Kansai Ben was highly suspicious (specially when only a few hours later the gang meets "Mr. Kansai Ben, Shinichi's Best Pal" Heiji Hattori himself.), but then saying "It was my voice, but it wasn't me!"

*Facepalm*

The Sleeves

And then, Masumi starts poking in the wound by mentioning that Shinichi folded his sleeves like a little kid would do. Heck, he can really be glad that Ran started talking about the movie poster.
(The Red Thread people actually think that she might have done this on purpose. Personally I'm not sure about this.)

Ah Le Le

Ok, Shinichi, you have really been Conan far too long. Seriously, changing into "Conan Mode" RIGHT IN FRONT OF RAN AND CO.?
And then look at their faces.

Sonoko: Annoyed. Masumi: Smirking. Ran: Worried (?)

Conclusion:

While it wasn't the first time, that Shinichi slipped up when he was himself again (Calling Ran , "Ran Nee Chan" once, during the Desperate Revivval), this time it was almost as if he's holding up a big sign in front of him with "Hello, I was Conan Edogawa all the time".

Heck, it's actually the first major time, that Ran has indications, that Shinichi is Conan and not visa versa as usual. ("Sleeves, Ah Le Le")

And in conclusion, with the Red Thread Observations in the OP, which Gadgets of Conan Ran is currently aware of, he now might have accidently revealed the indentiy of the Voice Changer to her. (She she might have suspected to exist anyway, if she's really in suspicion mode again.)

Plus: We know Gosho love of planting hints in-universe and out-universe. Things are clearly getting fun again..^^


Well to be honest, you have to think about that in the DC "reality" there actually is no official way of shrinking/de-aging, just like in our world. So for people like Ran it is hard to believe smth. like that happened/can happen. For people like Masumi/her mother/other people that know about it, it is way easier. So even if Conan/Shinichi slips and gives hints about him being shrunken, it is still not that easy for Ran to be very suspicious, especially after Shinichi made himself appear while Conan was there too (Haibara in disguise, Kaito as Shinichi). What I want to say is that YES there are reasons for Ran to start thinking about shrunk Shinichi, but there is also no evidence for her to actually be sure, especially (as mentioned before) after Shinichi tricked her few times into making her think that Shinichi and Conan cannot be the same by appearing at the same time.


Spoiler:
But after "a few times" her threshold for becoming suspicious of him is much lower. After all, in her last suspicion arc (479–483/398–400), as S.Vineyard points out, she thinks back on Desperate Revival (254–257/189–191) like this:

Ran Mori (File 481, Page 4) wrote:I bet he set up some kind of trick!


She even thought that Conan was Shinichi, for a period of time (134–256/96–191), and look how suddenly she got suspicious of Shinichi/Conan, when Eri was abducted (984–986). The only reason it would seem she's been truly fooled, and the subject is done with, is because it's been over 13 years since she got a suspicion arc—because of DC's pacing, and a focus on other characters. Look how Ran remembered her encounter with Vermouth (429–434/345) during a case last year (954–957/866–867), after 500 Files/Episodes—after 13 years—of not doing so. DC's pacing makes so much a question of just when something will happen/come up, not if something will happen/come up.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
S.Vineyard
Posts: 183

Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » September 24th, 2017, 8:37 am

Gosho has a habit of slowly putting the puzzle pieces in place. It's his storytelling habits that led lots of people led to follow the story (searching every nuke and crany of a file for potential clues), but also made them quite tedious, since the series has already become one of the longest running in Japanese History. (25th Anniversary is already in less than two years.)

If it benefits the story, Gosho specially goes a certain route even if it has lots of detours. And I just can't imagine he has done all these hickups in the latest case just for fun.

For now, finishing up the next Puzzle Piece of the Akai Family Storyline is imo. the next on the priority list.

We have to see how the whole "They are a couple now" thingy plays out in the near future. (Probatly some Heiji/Kazuha stuff, if Gosho isn't using his "newest running gag" again, if you know what I mean....)
S.Vineyard
Posts: 183

Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » September 30th, 2017, 2:32 am

For what it's worth, but Red Thread has posted these interesting thoughts on FB.

Kyoto's Kiyomizudera - The crimson thread between leaps and lips

Before the 1000 series started, we encouraged some speculation on the upcoming files and asked your opinion on which among the many beautiful sites in Kyoto would become the next Conan #landmark.

Among the most suitable locations, many of us had suggested the #Kiyomizu Temple as some likely destination for students on a school trip. And we were right, Kiyomizudera served as a perfect setting for the tengu legend Aoyama adapted into a leitmotiv for this case, while the bloody ceiling and crimson leaves provided for nice touches to "color" the atmosphere and convey the most befitting mood.

When we hypothesised about this place possibly becoming important for the series and the location plausibly hosting a turning point for Shinichi and Ran's realtionship, however, we still knew very little about the purpose and true meaning behind this choice.
While the above mentioned reasons are all absolutely legit and the place being acknowledged as a UNESCO World Heritage site could only add further merit to it, the metaphor Kiyomizudera wonderfully depicted in this case and the story as a whole still probably takes a step beyond all that.

The iconic expression “to #jump off the stage at Kiyomizu” is actually the true meaning behind it: a Japanese equivalent for the English expression “to take the plunge”, which figuratively means "to do something daring" or "to commit to something".

And that's precisely what happened there, when both Shinichi and Ran "dared" take the next step in their relationship, a courageous jump into the depths of an unknown territory for both of them, with no hooks or certainties to safekeep them from falling, just love as a driving force, providing some solid wings to survive the plunge and fly towards new highs, in order for their commitment to become concrete and for their future as a couple to finally start.

"How'd it feel, the kissing sensation?" asked Nakamichi to Ran at the end of the arc.

"It was like taking a leap off the Kiyomizu Temple stage" was Ran's answer.

The brave jump, the breath-taking plunge, the crazily accelerating heartbeat and the dizzy vertigo... isn't the image of jumping into some unknown depths just the best possible metaphor to describe the feeling of a #kiss? ^^
S.Vineyard
Posts: 183

Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby S.Vineyard » October 17th, 2017, 6:07 am

Another bump, with a personal thought of mine.

As I already said, I believe that the "Ran's birthday" Case will most likely be in 2019, since it's the year of the 25th anniversary of the Manga.

My believe got actually strenghend lately, when I saw that File 990-993 (and probatly MK Chp. 34) was a celebration of Gosho's 30th Anniversary of his Drawings. (Heck, 993 was named "Wait a Minute", after his debut manga, for which he got a Newcomer's Award.)

This makes me think that this case will be released between January (Date of the Shonen Sunday Debut) and June (Date of the First Volume Release) 2019.

Yes, kinda "soon". ::)
Kokuriko
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Re: Towards Ran's Next Suspicion Arc Discussion

Postby Kokuriko » October 21st, 2017, 8:58 pm

Being "soon" isn't an issue for me though. I expect Ran's birthday would fall on days of Tanabata festival, given that there has been no case involved it yet. Plus it would offer some sweet irony that the couple Hikoboshi and Orihime in the story related to this festival get some help from a flock of magpies to meet each other once each year.

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