Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Iwamoto Yuri
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Iwamoto Yuri »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So where does this rate on the Gosho Aoyama disappointment/let down scale? Or has it all kind of melded together, at this point?
Can't be disappointed if you never expected much to begin with ;).
Seriously though, for your own sanity it'd be best not to overthink Aoyama :V.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Kor »

DCUniverseAficionado wrote: You expected Rum to be one of those three from the get-go, right?

So where does this rate on the Gosho Aoyama disappointment/let down scale? Or has it all kind of melded together, at this point?
So I don't know what a "Gosho disappointment scale" is (nor do I know how you can "rate" disappointment), but if I expected Rum to be one of the three, why would I be disappointed with this outcome? I even noted this last page several months ago.
I also tend to believe that the idea of a 4th person stems from wishful thinking by readers who hope Gosho wouldn't be so repetitive or predictable (even though Gosho is extremely repetitive as a writer).
And Yuri said it well enough.
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Zerozaki4869

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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

The bigger question is whether Gosho recycling the arc or not?(Being repetitive doesn't mean same as doing recycling)
Regarding the fourth Rum suspect it was done due to the impression of the Cup-trick.
People didn't like the idea of Rum's effeminate man being swapped with an woman as strong as a man.

But thefailure of the trick was, whoever we tried to fit as the genuine Rum suspect, ended up being the one with a skull over the coaster(suspicious).
The one who got hacked down from that list was Rumi.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Iwamoto Yuri wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So where does this rate on the Gosho Aoyama disappointment/let down scale? Or has it all kind of melded together, at this point?
Can't be disappointed if you never expected much to begin with ;).
Seriously though, for your own sanity it'd be best not to overthink Aoyama :V.
So let me make sure I have this right—you (no longer—assuming you once did) have zero positive expectations when it comes to Gosho Aoyama as a creator of compelling mysteries...? Do I have that right? If not—if my assessment has missed the mark—then by all means correct me.

In other words, "I can no longer be disappointed by this creator, for they have already disappointed me enough."

Well, at least you can say you warned me about that. ;)
Kor wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:So I don't know what a "Gosho disappointment scale" is (nor do I know how you can "rate" disappointment)
Let me put it another way—in terms of "rating" disappointment—which produced a stronger, more potent reaction from you... Bourbon being a NOC, or Renya Karasuma being the boss? Differences in context around these reveals aside, whichever one got the stronger, more potent, reaction rates higher, on the "Gosho disappointment scale."

I hope that clarified what I meant, and my apologies for not making it clear, initially.

By the way, how long have you and Yuri been in the "can't be disappointed by DC if I have no expectations of it" state?
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Iwamoto Yuri
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Iwamoto Yuri »

Why instantly make it negative? I just stopped expecting complicated things and read the manga without putting much thought behind it. It makes for a generally enjoyable experience.
I understand a lot of people need to build up his storytelling skills but it became clear to me a long time ago that it's rather repetitive without said fact disappointing me in the first place. That's because I never really got into this series for the plot line, I started reading it because I enjoy detective stories. That's all that Conan is anyway: A detective story with an overarching plotline that pops up once in a blue moon to keep the audience interested.
Gosho isn't perfect, he forgets characters, he changes his mind about plot lines, and he's been doing this for over two decades now. It's hard not to fall into repetition after doing this for so long.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Iwamoto Yuri wrote:Why instantly make it negative?
Nah, just me phrasing things wrong and/or not adding enough conditions and caveats to make my question sound as neutral as possible. 'Twas not my intent. :-[
Iwamoto Yuri wrote:I just stopped expecting complicated things and read the manga without putting much thought behind it. It makes for a generally enjoyable experience.
I understand a lot of people need to build up his storytelling skills but it became clear to me a long time ago that it's rather repetitive without said fact disappointing me in the first place. That's because I never really got into this series for the plot line, I started reading it because I enjoy detective stories. That's all that Conan is anyway: A detective story with an overarching plotline that pops up once in a blue moon to keep the audience interested.
Gosho isn't perfect, he forgets characters, he changes his mind about plot lines, and he's been doing this for over two decades now. It's hard not to fall into repetition after doing this for so long.
Ah, I see.

I figured, at this stage, at least some long-time fans wouldn't be in it for just the plot. Interest in the genre and interest in/affection for the characters would have to be at play, as well.

I guess... I just can't wait to find out how this will all play out, with the characters—what actions they'll take, how they react and change to development—as we approach the culminating climax of this long-running mystery manga. ;D
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

There is an alternate reading of Wakita's name. The Waki part means off-topic/red herring.
So chances are Wakita is the biggest red herring.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:There is an alternate reading of Wakita's name. The Waki part means off-topic/red herring.
So chances are Wakita is the biggest red herring.
Which means Rum would be Hyōe or Rumi, right? If we're ruling out 4th suspects, that leaves only them if Kanenori is as this suggests. And I just don't see that, at this point—it'd certainly surprise me if Gosho had either of them turn out to be Rum, considering one seems to be Rei's/Tōru's boss at the NPA, and the other has both Shinichi/Conan and Shiho/Ai at hand's length.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Araide also had Conan at his arm's length.
Plus I think Rumi is somehow related to the Miyanos.
(She has similar eye shape and eyebrows like Atsushi)
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #35

Post by DCUniverseAficionado »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:Araide also had Conan at his arm's length.
Plus I think Rumi is somehow related to the Miyanos.
(She has similar eye shape and eyebrows like Atsushi)
Vermouth has a soft spot for him... but Rum? I don't think so—and neither one of them has a soft spot for Sherry, that's for sure.

Sure, she could be his younger sister, and seeking revenge for him, rather than for Kōji.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Post by Kor »

It's been a year since the last Rum poll, so here's a new Rum poll:

https://www.strawpoll.me/19661101
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KingWilson

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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Post by KingWilson »

129 vote for wakita is rum, does last year poll also put wakita as top spot for rum?
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Post by vaibhavgupte »

KingWilson wrote:
May 25th, 2020, 9:02 am
129 vote for wakita is rum, does last year poll also put wakita as top spot for rum?
this why he is biggest red herring.
most people by far think he is rum.
would gosho make rum so obvious.
copy paste of bourbon arc.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Post by KingWilson »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 12:32 am
this why he is biggest red herring.
most people by far think he is rum.
would gosho make rum so obvious.
copy paste of bourbon arc.
I actually have different opinion vaib, i think in this rum arc the biggest red herring is wakasa rumi, why ? The Aptx 4869 list that Rumi have, rumi called haneda foolish in her flashback, also amuro think that rumi is haneda killer, but we all know that all of that clue is red herring like in the vermouth arc too, where jodie have picture of conan and ran, also where jodie was so interested in ai haibara, many people think jodie is vermouth of course all that clue was misleading too.

But for Wakita Kanenori the only clue we have that he might be Rum is in file 1027 he said that he would love to have a eye to identify traitor, other than that there not a clue that prove wakita is rum.

So in this rum arc so far, there more clue for wakasa rumi to be Rum which is red herring than wakita kanenori imo.
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Re: Mystery Poll: Poll #36

Post by vaibhavgupte »

KingWilson wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 1:11 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 26th, 2020, 12:32 am
this why he is biggest red herring.
most people by far think he is rum.
would gosho make rum so obvious.
copy paste of bourbon arc.
I actually have different opinion vaib, i think in this rum arc the biggest red herring is wakasa rumi, why ? The Aptx 4869 list that Rumi have, rumi called haneda foolish in her flashback, also amuro think that rumi is haneda killer, but we all know that all of that clue is red herring like in the vermouth arc too, where jodie have picture of conan and ran, also where jodie was so interested in ai haibara, many people think jodie is vermouth of course all that clue was misleading too.

But for Wakita Kanenori the only clue we have that he might be Rum is in file 1027 he said that he would love to have a eye to identify traitor, other than that there not a clue that prove wakita is rum.

So in this rum arc so far, there more clue for wakasa rumi to be Rum which is red herring than wakita kanenori imo.
yes I agree wakasa is red herring.
but she is portrayed so directly that hardly
anyone still believes she is rum.
i dont believe it either.
so she is a red herring gosho doesnt intend us to fall.
he intends us to fall for other red herring wakita kanenori
and he is successful since most people believe he is rum.
now correction on wakita.
that traitor comment is not only suspicios one
from wakita. there are two more.
1) in wakita episode there is yaiba hint.
today in yaiba enemy boss advisor makes appearance
in show.
2) his name wakita kanenori is anagram of
tokiwa kanenari which in japanese is time is money
.what rum always states.
these two make wakia biggest red herring
and why most people think wakita is rum
is either of the two.
both are too obvous
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