Errors in the case about Karasuma Renya

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Errors in the case about Karasuma Renya

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » February 8th, 2015, 12:43 am

After talking back and forth with Kor in the Spoiler chat box, we seemed to have come to the conclusion that the anime subtitled version of the Karasuma Renya case has a few errors in it. The most often recurring online fan translation of the manga chapters of that case also seem to contain a lot of errors.

1. In the Kaizou subs version of the anime, during the scene where Detective Mogi, Mouri, and Conan find the piano and the note hidden between the keys, Mogi states that the tragedy rumor and the riddle are "all true and relevant" ... However the word used in both the manga and anime in Japanese is "mayutsuba" meaning "false / counterfeit", which is the exact opposite of what the subtitles say.

At the end of the case, Senma tries to say that Karasuma was still alive 40 years ago when her father was hired to solve the riddle. Karasuma was killing the people he invited to solve the riddle as motivation to find the treasure quicker. This contradicts the earlier story that is told about two strangers and marijuana on several points. 1. Both events happened 40 years ago. 2. Both events caused massive amounts of blood to be spilled. 3. Karasuma was still alive at 40 years ago even though the story said he died "half a century ago".

2. The Kaizou Subs also completely skip the line where it says that Karasuma Renya inherited the mansion from his mother. They just leave the line "He told me he always wanted to find the treasure" on the screen when Senma is explaining the inheritance thing.

Karasuma Renya later finds the clues about the King, Queen, and Knight and begins paying people to see if they can solve the riddle. Then killing them when they don't solve it, as motivation for the others to work faster.

3. Many fan translations of the manga that are circulating have Karasuma Renya's name translated as "Crow Association". It looks like they just didn't realize that it was supposed to be a name and tried to find words to match it.

4. At the beginning of the case, Senma recognizes Mogi and says that she read that he was shot by the mafia in Chicago one week prior to the case. In the Kaizou subs, they just have "I heard you were shot by some mafia members" and in the official VIZ translation they have "I heard you were shot last week in Chicago", when actually both things are said in both the anime and the manga. He was shot by the mafia in Chicago the week before.



As an extra thing, it is never really stated whether or not Karasuma found the treasure. All we can really say for sure is that Senma's father did solve the riddle, and left a clue about it in blood and was never seen again, and that Karasuma never activated the device clock. These imply that Karasuma never knew the answer to the riddle, as he was a greedy person and would have gone and done so if he was aware. Senma claims that Karasuma died at some point after that (between 40 years ago (when the father was hired) and 20 years ago (when she found the clue in his letters)).
Last edited by jimmy_kud0_tv2 on December 11th, 2017, 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Black Demon
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby Black Demon » February 8th, 2015, 10:16 pm

So Karasuma dying "half a century ago" was only a vague description for his time of death? Or was it a lie to cover up the fact that he was still alive 40 years ago?

I think I'll need to re-read this case with all these new facts in mind.
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby Puto » February 14th, 2015, 8:29 am

The Kaizou sub of 219 is honestly the worst release Kaizou ever did. The script is almost entirely made up, it barely matches the Japanese at all. You'd be better off watching the UTB rips, which are at least accurate, even if the English is crap.
k11chi
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby k11chi » February 24th, 2015, 8:53 am

That makes it dangerous to make theories based on older episodes overall then? Some episodes had atrocious subs now that I think about it.
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Spimer
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby Spimer » February 24th, 2015, 9:28 am

@k11chi: Maybe so. Depends on how bad the subs actually are. 219 is one case where, at the time, both the manga scanlation and the subs were bad and it was hard to understand the details of the case. That's the only one that comes to mind right now, maybe there's another old ep which has a similar problem.
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby usotsuki » February 24th, 2015, 3:38 pm

The other case where I know there's actual details rendered wrong, as opposed to just minor lines being bluffed, is the lines in 331 involving Ran's panties (the overall translation gets the gist correct, but it sounds like it was cross-translated from a censored source). And now fanon seems to think Conan has a sock fetish - the Japanese said no such thing, and both Viz and the studio translation translated "namapan" in a way that implies no slip or tights, nothing about socks.

Overall, I have the most distrust for AnimeNoobs (ANFS, Yami) subs, followed by Kaizou or more particularly anything translated by Akamaru or Chibi-kun, and then Neg apart from their very last (130-131, 205-206, 208, 333-334) solo subs, and a lot of KnKF's older stuff. Take that as you may, but that's why I've been trying to re-sub a lot of the older eps.

219, as Puto says, is the worst thing Kaizou ever put out. KnKF's 162's pretty terrible too, as are Neg's eps in the early 130s. At least those groups got better.
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Puto
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby Puto » March 16th, 2015, 9:44 am

Bumping just to note that this problem has now been solved ;)
jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » March 16th, 2015, 12:57 pm

Puto wrote:Bumping just to note that this problem has now been solved ;)


as in there are better subs somewhere?
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby Jecka » March 16th, 2015, 1:02 pm

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Puto wrote:Bumping just to note that this problem has now been solved ;)


as in there are better subs somewhere?

M-L released their own yesterday :P
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usotsuki
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby usotsuki » March 16th, 2015, 1:32 pm

Yeah. The M-L version even has a little bonus during the first part. :P
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » March 16th, 2015, 2:53 pm

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy :)
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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jimmy_kud0_tv2
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » December 11th, 2017, 7:40 pm

Bumping this thread due to recent developments.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
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irishock
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Re: Errors in the Karasuma Renya case

Postby irishock » December 12th, 2017, 5:16 am

It's just so funny to me that the most important case in the entire series is so badly mistranslated in both manga and anime form, and it wasn't even like a really old case. It was from 2001, it came AFTER desperate revival, reunion with the org, etc.
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Re: Errors in the case about Karasuma Renya

Postby Kor » December 14th, 2017, 11:09 am

Edited title so when this thread gets bumped, the name won't show on the index.
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