Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

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Themaninarmor
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 1:16 am

My oppinion about aptx, well i will copy my post in RUM's discussion thread...

Gin said that shinichi is the first human Guinea pig for new developed drug which is the APTX (the first candidat is kiichiro numabuchi but he escaped maybe with shiho help) .. Well if what he said is right then there are 2 possibilities...

1. Mary was drugged before shinichi with another drug which we believe as silver bullet.

or

2. she was drugged after shinichi with APTX...

but if Mary was drugged before shinichi then in BO's drug victim list she would be reported as missing .. but haibara never mentioned that there is another person which reported as missing/uncertain, like shinichi.. (remember ai said the BO's death list isn't sorted by chronological or alphabetical order)

So, i believe mary was drugged after shinichi and after shiho left the organization. Then there will be another possibilities for the reason RUM is on the move. RUM may still searching mary cause she still missing after she was drugged by RUM or other BO's member.

After all we still don't know why mary is look like junior high school student... Is it because she already spent 5 or 7 year after shrunken or because she is older than shinichi that make her reverted to her condition now instead of reverted to 7 years old body.

Regarding the drug... we must consider too that the one who said the drug's name is silver bullet is only ai's parent and another researcher... BO's member never said anything about silver bullet..(well correct me if i'm wrong), and also i have searched about silver bullet meaning. One of the them is "Silver bullet is a symbol of justice or a weapon to exterminate evil". Isn't it ironic to name the drug used by evil organization to kill as silver bullet.

Hmmm if we turn around our thinking (edgeworth way)... Maybe what we think as silver bullet is not drug that kill people of course including the victim 17 years ago kohji haneda... Because it is in the same list as shinichi which was the victim of APTX and also why anokata called akai "silver bullet"? Is it just a saying or there are something happen before in BO which almost made the organization collapse caused by something/someone called "silver bullet"?
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby k11chi » February 22nd, 2017, 4:36 am

Haibara said that it's possible there will be more people like her and Conan in the future and Mary is that person I believe.

It was explained in the 18th movie that Akai has the title of silver bullet because he's the best sniper in the world while Conan is the silver bullet because of the theme of the halloween party/VS Vermouth case.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 7:47 am

Well... FBI said something like that but that was in movie non canon...

Anokata said to vermouth "that man might be our silver bullet" and vermouth relay it to gin (conversation between gin and vermouth at phone booth after she got shot by akai and escaped from FBI). Somehow i have impression that there is hidden meaning behind that... And maybe vermouth have been influenced by anokata. Thats why she called conan silver bullet too..
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby k11chi » February 22nd, 2017, 9:19 am

That was obviously just something Gosho did because of the theme of the case... Silver bullet was what exposed the criminal. It's what will find the truth. The movie being non-canon or not is irrelevant because it gives an explanation for it. Think about it for a second. The movie (which has a script that Gosho can alter at will) actually explains why Akai is the silver bullet. It could be that Akai is the red bullet instead but no, it's the silver bullet. That's not a coincidence.
Anyway the movies are still part of the franchise meaning that the Silver Bullet really holds no actual meaning behind it. It's just a title.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Spimer » February 22nd, 2017, 10:55 am

The whole "silver bullet" was started by Vermouth who considers Akai and Conan "Silver Bullets": it doesn't necessarily need to be related to the "Silver Bullet" project.

In my opinion she was going along with the Halloween party and the silver bullet being what brings down the monster (the werewolf): Gin scoffs saying that the BO can't be brought down by a single bullet.

So she might only mean a powerful enemy for the organization.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 11:12 am

But isn't the drug's name "which shiho's parent researched" is also silver bullet just coincidence? Well we know another drug's name in mystery train case (!?) which happened after the ghost ship case. But why gosho choose the silver bullet as its name? after ghost ship case, the silver bullet is already become favorit saying by BO's top member (anokata, vermouth, gin) and also the drug is invented long before the ghost case, if we consider that fact... We can say that gosho trying to connect the drug with the alias that given two people who destinied to take down BO right?

@spimer, if i read the translation it is like anokata who said that first to vermouth. After all the one who held that party is vermouth right? It's possible the code silver bullet is prepared by her too.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby k11chi » February 22nd, 2017, 11:36 am

All anokata said was that he could become a threat for them and the silver bullet is a metaphor because Akai could be their weak spot and now it's a title. For the drug it's just what they call it (and it's not the only name either...).
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Spimer » February 22nd, 2017, 12:09 pm

Yeah. I know Vermouth was saying that the "silver bullet" was how the boss named Akai but then again we don't know if she was making it up along the way to try to focus Gin's attention on Akai or not.

It's true that, in Clash of Red and Black, Gin scoffs at how the boss considers Akai to be a silver bullet and isn't impressed.

And it's true that the drug that Shiho's parents were working was named the silver bullet too.

But one thing is the drug's name and the other is the metaphor of Akai and Conan being powerful enough to bring the org down, in my opinion.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Themaninarmor » February 22nd, 2017, 6:59 pm

Well i know what @spimer and @ kiichi mean.... but i think the silver bullet have hidden meaning and both of silver bullet have connection. Okay i will explain what i mean...

consider this fact
- the mysterious death of haibara's parent

- they had researched the silver bullet until the accident that cost their life happened.

- haibara made the different drug called APTX

- haibara said that she hate BO when they were testing it to human (if it was poison in the first place then haibara's reaction is weird)

- what gin know... the drug as poison, but haibara don't think so... is gin don't know the research goal? or is it BO and ai have different goal? what about BO and miyano's goal, is it same?

- then how haibara know what her parent goal? And why her drug's is different that what her parent want?

so, my conclusion is the silver bullet made by haibara's parent with the same goal but they knew about BO's evil intention and decided to distract their research with different goal or even stop their research.

Anokata know that and decide to kill them but of course anokata know that it would blow their entire project, it have a great impact to BO. Well... i called it "silver bullet accident"... and thats why anokata become a cautious figure.

Then akai become a threat to BO and anokata called him "silver bullet" because he have potential to destroy the entire project like what miyano's parent do before... thats why i'm saying that the silver bullet have hidden meaning.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Tantei San » February 23rd, 2017, 6:58 am

Themaninarmor wrote:
Spoiler:
Well i know what @spimer and @ kiichi mean.... but i think the silver bullet have hidden meaning and both of silver bullet have connection. Okay i will explain what i mean...

consider this fact
- the mysterious death of haibara's parent

- they had researched the silver bullet until the accident that cost their life happened.

- haibara made the different drug called APTX

- haibara said that she hate BO when they were testing it to human (if it was poison in the first place then haibara's reaction is weird)

- what gin know... the drug as poison, but haibara don't think so... is gin don't know the research goal? or is it BO and ai have different goal? what about BO and miyano's goal, is it same?

- then how haibara know what her parent goal? And why her drug's is different that what her parent want?

so, my conclusion is the silver bullet made by haibara's parent with the same goal but they knew about BO's evil intention and decided to distract their research with different goal or even stop their research.

Anokata know that and decide to kill them but of course anokata know that it would blow their entire project, it have a great impact to BO. Well... i called it "silver bullet accident"... and thats why anokata become a cautious figure.

Then akai become a threat to BO and anokata called him "silver bullet" because he have potential to destroy the entire project like what miyano's parent do before... thats why i'm saying that the silver bullet have hidden meaning.


I will have my say from point 4, because till that there is nothing much to reply about.

Haibara's hate was for number of reasons,
1. Which child will like her childhood ruined after all.
2. Haibara knew about her parents work and their deaths and her hatred grew even more.
3. After Akemi's death she refused to work which was then, she was locked and she took APTX.

Gin didn't knew anything about the drug except that it was in making and his work was to give it to someone to do human testing.
I don't think even haibara knew that the drug could shrink people(correct me if i am wrong, she did i think).
Regarding Gin and Haibara's goal, obviously, they were different. Gin was a Skilled official and his work were "On-field" like murders, receiving extortion money, giving unknown drug around the city to unknown people :P whereas Haibara's was to finish what her parents left or to create a new drug.
As far BO's goal is concerned I think it is something every crime syndicate has , To kill people, stay away from police etc with a different motive though here, It hasn't been unveiled.
As per the wiki, The miyano's drug and Shiho's drug project were same , but, the miyano's ended up making a different drug all together before they could rectify and create the original intended drug they died, and then, Haibara took over.
As far the "Silver Bullet" it is just a metaphor and nothing else, there is no hidden meaning. Akai was always a threat to BO, and the way he infiltrated BO was also, through Akemi, which for actual reason was to get close to Shiho.

But if mary and Elena were sisters doesn't that mean that Akai dated his cousin sister.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Themaninarmor » February 23rd, 2017, 9:00 am

@tantei san
Until now... Only Gin and RUM known using APTX/silver bullet.

For haibara... I think she knew that after shinichi case.. Even she got suspicious for Shinichi status and had an idea that may be shinichi was shrunken... She didn't have proof. When Gin locked her in gas chamber... Shiho drank the drug with intention to die... But she was survived and proved it herself...

About BO's objective and miyano's goal.
If BO's objective is undetected poison... Than miyanos are psycho for calling a poison as "dream drug". I'm sure both shiho and miyano not intended to make a poison. Well a death because an experiment didn't mean the experiment itself for killing people. Until now only drug that shiho made have shrinking side effect (it is wrong if Mary is proved to be shrunken not by Shiho's drug). So that drug is different and Shiho is only know her parent's real goal in mystery train case. So i agree with wiki...

but how can you be so sure that there is no connection?

3 fact about silver bullet

1. the name of drug which supossed to be invented along time ago before ghost ship case (we don't know which one inspired by which one)

2. the one who was given an alias by anokata as the one who anokata feared most...

3. the one who said that so many times is the one who hate shiho and his parent so much...

unless it is all coincidence or gosho just name it because it is a cool name for drug ... then i think we must consider it as one of possibilities.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Tantei San » February 23rd, 2017, 10:11 am

Themaninarmor wrote:@tantei san
Until now... Only Gin and RUM known using APTX/silver bullet.

For haibara... I think she knew that after shinichi case.. Even she got suspicious for Shinichi status and had an idea that may be shinichi was shrunken... She didn't have proof. When Gin locked her in gas chamber... Shiho drank the drug with intention to die... But she was survived and proved it herself...

About BO's objective and miyano's goal.
If BO's objective is undetected poison... Than miyanos are psycho for calling a poison as "dream drug". I'm sure both shiho and miyano not intended to make a poison. Well a death because an experiment didn't mean the experiment itself for killing people. Until now only drug that shiho made have shrinking side effect (it is wrong if Mary is proved to be shrunken not by Shiho's drug). So that drug is different and Shiho is only know her parent's real goal in mystery train case. So i agree with wiki...

but how can you be so sure that there is no connection?

3 fact about silver bullet

1. the name of drug which supossed to be invented along time ago before ghost ship case (we don't know which one inspired by which one)

2. the one who was given an alias by anokata as the one who anokata feared most...

3. the one who said that so many times is the one who hate shiho and his parent so much...

unless it is all coincidence or gosho just name it because it is a cool name for drug ... then i think we must consider it as one of possibilities.


Hold on,
Who said Rum is known using APTX, its a assumption that mary was given APTX/silver bullet(for your sake) by RUM.
Obviously, After she took the drug, she was aware of its effect. As for whether she knew about the shrunk side effect, she inspected Shinichi's house, but it was for the List(APTX) and not for to find where'd he go.

And it was never mentioned that the drug being made was a poison.
I read in some post on one of the topic, that the drug was actually an immortality drug rather than a killing drug.
I agree that death doesn't conclude that the experiment is for killing people but that doesn't mean it should be tested on people until and unless that it is for medical benefits.
whether the drug given to Mary is different or not, we need to wait for it.
And the 3 facts elaborate them more, its not understandable.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Absenta » February 23rd, 2017, 10:52 am

I think Mary took the APTX by herself.
If Rum failed 17 years ago in the Kohji Haneda case it doesn´t make any sense that he uses the drug again, risking to fail.
Gin´s case with Shinichi was particular because they were in a hurry, I suppose they usually wait to confirm deaths, that´s why Shinichi in the list was no confirmed...

It´s curious how Gin complains about Rum´s screwing 17 years ago when he did the same, letting Shinichi alive triggers the series and sometime, the end of BO.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Tantei San » February 23rd, 2017, 11:38 am

Absenta wrote:I think Mary took the APTX by herself.
If Rum failed 17 years ago in the Kohji Haneda case it doesn´t make any sense that he uses the drug again, risking to fail.
Gin´s case with Shinichi was particular because they were in a hurry, I suppose they usually wait to confirm deaths, that´s why Shinichi in the list was no confirmed...

It´s curious how Gin complains about Rum´s screwing 17 years ago when he did the same, letting Shinichi alive triggers the series and sometime, the end of BO.

Gin still doesn't know that Shinichi is alive , rather Haibara made sure he doesn't gets to know so she also, changes his status to 'Dead'.
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Re: Theory on the shrinking effect of APTX4869

Postby Spimer » February 23rd, 2017, 12:19 pm

Yeah. Gin was expecting Shinichi to die like all the victims of ATPX insofar.

Besides, as we've seen, he forgets the names and faces of those who's killed so he forgot about Shinichi a long time ago.

It's true that his naming of "Silver Bullet" can lead to confusion: makes you wish Gosho had picked another name to avoid mixing in Akai, Conan, the halloween case, and Haibara's parents research.

The "Rum screwed up" is probably that he was seen by Kouji after he managed to kill Amanda (I don't recall if her cause of death was established) and then possibly had a fight wih Kouji as hinted by the state his room ended up in: I guess he was only supposed to kill Amanda and then had to improvise hence why Gin says so.
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