Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
nramius
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby nramius » December 14th, 2017, 12:44 pm

While it's a weak defense in regards to the phone number and my memory's hazy on the details but didn't Conan tell his mom and dad that he was going to solve the case? This was why he didn't want his father talking to Interpol about it. I believe it was the case where his parents pretended to be BO members and set up their son to show him how dangerous it was.

Edit: Forgot to put in my obvious concluding line. If Conan did not want his dad talking to Interpol, then he wouldn't want the FBI/CIA/Insert Gov't agency here to solve it for him. He has to make the deduction.
Last edited by nramius on December 14th, 2017, 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kor
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Kor » December 14th, 2017, 12:51 pm

nramius wrote:While it's a weak defense in regards to the phone number and my memory's hazy on the details but didn't Conan tell his mom and dad that he was going to solve the case? This was why he didn't want his father talking to Interpol about it. I believe it was the case where his parents pretended to be BO members and set up their son to show him how dangerous it was.


You are correct.
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Antiyonder
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Antiyonder » December 14th, 2017, 9:40 pm

thriceplus wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
thriceplus wrote:
Spoiler:
Agreed. The other thing is that Gosho has already done boss teasing more than a decade ago, when Conan got the boss's phone number. There was a period in like 2003 when everyone thought that Conan will end imminently because he can just call the boss and finish the story. Well, we all know where that went. So all this recent boss teasing could be another one of those early teases.


Spoiler:
That may actually (finally) come back into play... at least, the odds of it coming back are at their highest, as of right now.


Spoiler:
The in-story explanation for why Conan can't call the boss (Haibara: "It's too dangerous!!!") is still pretty BS. It's pretty obviously a ploy by Gosho to extend the story. Conan could have just given the number to the FBI or something and don't tell that the freaking FBI would be scared of calling the Black Org Boss.


This. It's pretty much what I've been talking about when I said that even if the general audience isn't worn down on the story, that it's still best to end it unless you can think of material needed to improve the story vs stretching it out because it's successful.

Even the more patient readers/viewers are going to have some high expectations as with any other long running series, only to see sudden resolutions and conclusions sped up because too much cheap padding cluttered the story up whereas preparing for an end sooner would mean giving each plot and character the attention and ending they deserve. For example:

Spoiler:
With how tight lipped Haibara has been with giving out information to Conan and how cautious she's been about them pursuing the Organization, one has to wonder what will prompt her to change her stance in the last portion of the story.

Frankly it just feels like when said thing happens it's going to come across less as a natural change/development in the character and more of a meta "she knows that the story is ending and decides to help push it along cause of reasons".
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
Tenken
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Tenken » December 26th, 2017, 10:21 pm

Antiyonder wrote:
This. It's pretty much what I've been talking about when I said that even if the general audience isn't worn down on the story, that it's still best to end it unless you can think of material needed to improve the story vs stretching it out because it's successful.

Even the more patient readers/viewers are going to have some high expectations as with any other long running series, only to see sudden resolutions and conclusions sped up because too much cheap padding cluttered the story up whereas preparing for an end sooner would mean giving each plot and character the attention and ending they deserve.

Ahhh this is so true. The first ~20 manga volumes were really good, but since then the quality of cases have been declining. I've only been reading cases where Kaito KID or the B.O. appears. I'm hoping to see the finale as soon as Gosho recovers from his illness, rather than wait 5 more years. DC by all means can continue on even AFTER the B.O. is defeated.
agent.sherry
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby agent.sherry » May 6th, 2018, 3:29 am

I hope no one minds I'm bumping this thread, but the question 'when will DC end?' has been a hot topic ever since and I agree a lot with what has been written in the opening post.

Like lots of people said before, here and elsewhere, the Bourbon arc was too dragged out and felt like a big waste of time in the grand scheme of things.

With Rum being #2 in the BO, I really hope the current arc indeed turns out to be the penultimate one. It's about time to build the plot towards resolution and conclusion in a satisfying way. I mean is it just me or do we still barely know anything about the BO/have learned nothing crucial in more than a decade (not including the recent boss reveal here)?

Considering recent developments, maybe Gosho is really pushing the fast forward button now...I'm definitely looking forward to finally see the truth behind the BO uncovered and hopefully it won't take another ten years...
champagne
Posts: 18

Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby champagne » July 24th, 2018, 11:58 am

How does it work in the manga industry? Will there be some kind of announcement a year (or couple of years) before Gosho finishes DC or will it just happen with no "warning" beforehand in order to not "ruin" the surprise/keep it "spoiler-free"?
Antiyonder
Posts: 121

Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Antiyonder » July 29th, 2018, 11:26 pm

agent.sherry wrote:Considering recent developments, maybe Gosho is really pushing the fast forward button now...I'm definitely looking forward to finally see the truth behind the BO uncovered and hopefully it won't take another ten years...


And incidentally it's why stalling for as long as he did was a mistake in the long run. You go on for too long and eventually you only end the story because you're too tired, thus the writer ends up finishing it in a less than organic fashion. It's also why it's good to change the status quo when possible part way into the story as it leaves one with less to cram into the ending.
The Mystery of Conan Edogawa.

Arguably one of the best attempts at tackling the story of "Ran discovering the secret behind Conan". It's strong point is taking a common plot for Detective Conan fan fics and presenting it in a fresh manner such as:
- Touching on things that aren't dealt with in the show or discussed much.
- While there is some understanding towards Conan's predicament, the fic doesn't ignore the problematic approach he takes towards keeping quiet.

So, do yourself a favor and read this. I only wish I could so something half as decent.
thriceplus
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Posts: 161

Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby thriceplus » August 1st, 2018, 6:35 pm

With all the talks of romantic subplots wrapping up (Chiba/Naeko being the latest), it's interesting to note that pretty much all the non-minor Tokyo police department members are now paired by this point. Gosho has traditionally used the police officers to start romantic subplots (Takagi/Sato, Shitatori/Kobayashi, Yumi/Shukichi, Chiba/Naeko, Meguri/Midori to some extent) and prolong the series, so I'm curious whether y'all think Gosho will give anymore recurring characters his trademark cheesy childhood romance subplot or if he's wrapping it up.

Azusa's the only recurring non-plot character (plot characters like Haibs could be hard to do) left that I can see Gosho giving a romantic option without reaching into literal D-list characters like Komei or Yamamura. I mean is actually anyone looking forward to Yamamura's sweet childhood romance?
Swagnarok
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Swagnarok » August 1st, 2018, 7:09 pm

thriceplus wrote:With all the talks of romantic subplots wrapping up (Chiba/Naeko being the latest), it's interesting to note that pretty much all the non-minor Tokyo police department members are now paired by this point. Gosho has traditionally used the police officers to start romantic subplots (Takagi/Sato, Shitatori/Kobayashi, Yumi/Shukichi, Chiba/Naeko, Meguri/Midori to some extent) and prolong the series, so I'm curious whether y'all think Gosho will give anymore recurring characters his trademark cheesy childhood romance subplot or if he's wrapping it up.

Azusa's the only recurring non-plot character (plot characters like Haibs could be hard to do) left that I can see Gosho giving a romantic option without reaching into literal D-list characters like Komei or Yamamura. I mean is actually anyone looking forward to Yamamura's sweet childhood romance?


At this point opening up a fresh new can of "We encountered each other once as kids so by the laws of anime that means we're destined to be together as adults" would be quite the gamble: Chiba/Naeko was among the shortest of the romance arcs and yet, assuming the recent case is adapted somewhere around Episode 950, that'd still make it 280 or so episodes long (that is, seven years). By the norms and conventions of the series, Gosho can't pack several cases revolving around the same romantic pairing (save maybe Shinichi and Ran) in a very short timeframe but rather must be separated by at least 50 episodes. So assuming that it takes a minimum of three cases to make for a satisfactory arc, that'd make it stretch on 150 episodes, or 3-4 years.
At this point, I don't think Gosho can say with absolute certainty that he's still gonna be writing Detective Conan in 3-4 years, for health reasons. Even if he does, I doubt he's gonna want to take a risk like that.

So like you said, I think from this point on he's gonna focus on wrapping it all up. When Heiji and Kazuha finally confess to each other, I think that'll be the big indicator that it's gonna end soon, since they're the second most important pairing in the canon (with Takagi and Sato being third, probably).

(And as for Haibara, yeah, there's no way Gosho can pull that off without sacrificing the character's lone wolf image and leaving a butt ton of fans feeling betrayed by the sudden 180 in her characterization and personality)
Spoiler:
Unshackled lycanthrope as I am, only my appetite matters
I'm numb to all but this overwhelming sense of satisfaction
Leaning back my head to rest, letting my feral eyes nod off
My pants stained by the scarlet trickle leading from the body
My heart stops beating, and the razor thin tightrope snaps
Helplessly I plunge headfirst into the wrong side of eternity
My cup runneth over with bad karma, the pressure building
I will never escape the piercing glare of their lavender eyes

My fanfic account:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7291651/Swagnarok
Kor
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby Kor » August 1st, 2018, 7:23 pm

My stance of this has (regrettibly) remained the same since the Karasuma reveal, which is - I'm still waiting to see how Gosho's going from here. I'd like to hope he hit the "start resolving this thing" button (doesn't matter if it's rushed or not), and so far with the 2 cases since the Karasuma thing, it kinda seems that way (in one he had Akai and Amuro meet, in the other he resolved the Chiba/Naeko thread), but it's still not enough to proclaim that he's definitely wrapping it all, so... we'll see in like 3-5 more cases what Gosho's doing, I guess. (problem is with the current pacing 3-5 more cases may take 6-10 months, but that's another issue).
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thriceplus
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby thriceplus » August 1st, 2018, 8:48 pm

Swagnarok wrote:At this point opening up a fresh new can of "We encountered each other once as kids so by the laws of anime that means we're destined to be together as adults" would be quite the gamble: Chiba/Naeko was among the shortest of the romance arcs and yet, assuming the recent case is adapted somewhere around Episode 950, that'd still make it 280 or so episodes long (that is, seven years). By the norms and conventions of the series, Gosho can't pack several cases revolving around the same romantic pairing (save maybe Shinichi and Ran) in a very short timeframe but rather must be separated by at least 50 episodes. So assuming that it takes a minimum of three cases to make for a satisfactory arc, that'd make it stretch on 150 episodes, or 3-4 years.
At this point, I don't think Gosho can say with absolute certainty that he's still gonna be writing Detective Conan in 3-4 years, for health reasons. Even if he does, I doubt he's gonna want to take a risk like that.


I agree with Kor in that I'm not really 100% convinced right now that Gosho's actually speedrunning this. We're definitely in the endgame, but I still wouldn't be surprised if the endgame is 10+ years with how much hiatuses we're having. The Bourbon/Akai meeting can be interpreted as just promotional material for movie 22 and I also read somewhere that Gosho did 1008 earlier than planned (can't find source right now) for hype purposes since he was going on a major hiatus.

I think the shortest romance subplot is Shiratori/Kobayashi which was only like ~20 chapters. Although it's distinct in that it's sort of a corollary to Takagi/Sato, since Shiratori thought his childhood friend is Sato before that.

But yes, I agree that doing a satisfactory romantic subplot from scratch will take years, which is why I've been thinking about this topic. If it becomes clear that Azusa (or god forbid one of the D-list characters) started showing hints of having some forgotten boyfriend/childhood crush or whatever, it'll be clear to me that Gosho's in fact not speedrunning this.

Swagnarok wrote:So like you said, I think from this point on he's gonna focus on wrapping it all up. When Heiji and Kazuha finally confess to each other, I think that'll be the big indicator that it's gonna end soon, since they're the second most important pairing in the canon (with Takagi and Sato being third, probably).


Don't forget Kogoro/Eri, which I think it's arguably as important as Heiji/Kazuha if not more (I'd personally argue it's the second most important pairing). For one, Kogoro/Eri concluding will mean Eri will likely move back to the detective agency (and live with Ran/Kogoro/Conan) which could have some interesting implications since it'll change the status quo (Eri's appearance rate will skyrocket at the very least although she could just be camping out at her law office most of the time). Of course, it's pretty much impossible to predict when Kogoro/Eri will end, since there's basically no progress in forever and it just takes literally half a chapter to end the arc completely.

For Heiji/Kazuha, I really have to wonder what Momiji means to this. One can argue that Momiji's just a throwaway character, but I'm not sure. With her central role in movie 21 and her ability as a highly competent detective, I wonder if Gosho has plans for her, which can still majorly drag out the Heiji/Kazuha arc. Her solving the Cafe Poirot murder case before any of Conan/Heiji/Bourbon was definitely very interesting to me and the whole ending makes me wonder if she'll have a larger role in the future. We'll see though, since she could just also be a throwaway promotional character for movie 21.
champagne
Posts: 18

Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby champagne » August 1st, 2018, 9:14 pm

thriceplus wrote:With all the talks of romantic subplots wrapping up (Chiba/Naeko being the latest), it's interesting to note that pretty much all the non-minor Tokyo police department members are now paired by this point. Gosho has traditionally used the police officers to start romantic subplots (Takagi/Sato, Shitatori/Kobayashi, Yumi/Shukichi, Chiba/Naeko, Meguri/Midori to some extent) and prolong the series, so I'm curious whether y'all think Gosho will give anymore recurring characters his trademark cheesy childhood romance subplot or if he's wrapping it up.

Azusa's the only recurring non-plot character (plot characters like Haibs could be hard to do) left that I can see Gosho giving a romantic option without reaching into literal D-list characters like Komei or Yamamura. I mean is actually anyone looking forward to Yamamura's sweet childhood romance?

I really hope Gosho is wrapping things up, I definitely don't need a minor and irrelevant character like Azusa to hog more screen time with another cheesy childhood romance.

I actually always found it suspicious that Gosho has not attempted to pair a major character like Haibara up, but maybe he is more self-aware than I've given him credit for and he realised that he would have to step up his game when it comes to her, because his standard silly childhood romance doesn't do her justice :P ?

Kor wrote:My stance of this has (regrettibly) remained the same since the Karasuma reveal, which is - I'm still waiting to see how Gosho's going from here. I'd like to hope he hit the "start resolving this thing" button (doesn't matter if it's rushed or not), and so far with the 2 cases since the Karasuma thing, it kinda seems that way (in one he had Akai and Amuro meet, in the other he resolved the Chiba/Naeko thread), but it's still not enough to proclaim that he's definitely wrapping it all, so... we'll see in like 3-5 more cases what Gosho's doing, I guess.

I think many fans feel the same and are really craving for Conan to end.

Kor wrote:(problem is with the current pacing 3-5 more cases may take 6-10 months, but that's another issue).

I'm already dreading this, the current release schedule is painful.
thriceplus
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby thriceplus » August 1st, 2018, 9:26 pm

champagne wrote:I actually always found it suspicious that Gosho has not attempted to pair a major character like Haibara up, but maybe he is more self-aware than I've given him credit for and he realised that he would have to step up his game when it comes to her, because his standard silly childhood romance doesn't do her justice :P ?


The problem is that anyone that can pair up with Haibara either has to know her identity (which means eliminates almost everyone) or should be on a list.

Not to mention there's the Gin/Haibara thing back in the days, although nowadays it's pretty crazy to imagine Haibara having a consensual relationship with a mass murderer.
champagne
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby champagne » August 1st, 2018, 9:42 pm

thriceplus wrote:
champagne wrote:I actually always found it suspicious that Gosho has not attempted to pair a major character like Haibara up, but maybe he is more self-aware than I've given him credit for and he realised that he would have to step up his game when it comes to her, because his standard silly childhood romance doesn't do her justice :P ?


The problem is that anyone that can pair up with Haibara either has to know her identity (which means eliminates almost everyone) or should be on a list.

Not to mention there's the Gin/Haibara thing back in the days, although nowadays it's pretty crazy to imagine Haibara having a consensual relationship with a mass murderer.

True, I also wondered if Gosho is saving her for the myth-enshrouded Gin/Sherry-"relationship". As crazy and scandalous this might be, I think this would be more intriguing and relevant to the plot (because this is proper BO content and would give us never-seen-before insight into the BO) than any of the cheesy childhood romances ever could be.
thriceplus
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Re: Conan's Pacing: Are We FINALLY at the Beginning of the End of Conan?

Postby thriceplus » August 1st, 2018, 10:13 pm

champagne wrote:
thriceplus wrote:
champagne wrote:I actually always found it suspicious that Gosho has not attempted to pair a major character like Haibara up, but maybe he is more self-aware than I've given him credit for and he realised that he would have to step up his game when it comes to her, because his standard silly childhood romance doesn't do her justice :P ?


The problem is that anyone that can pair up with Haibara either has to know her identity (which means eliminates almost everyone) or should be on a list.

Not to mention there's the Gin/Haibara thing back in the days, although nowadays it's pretty crazy to imagine Haibara having a consensual relationship with a mass murderer.

True, I also wondered if Gosho is saving her for the myth-enshrouded Gin/Sherry-"relationship". As crazy and scandalous this might be, I think this would be more intriguing and relevant to the plot (because this is proper BO content and would give us never-seen-before insight into the BO) than any of the cheesy childhood romances ever could be.


I wonder Gosho originally intended for Gin/Sherry but changed his mind after the series got more light-hearted.

And there's actually also Higo/Haibara... which is presented as gag but still technically possible.

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