What's the identity of Rum?

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Serinox
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Serinox » December 8th, 2016, 3:30 am

dccd wrote:One more important thing:

The NY/Golden Apple-Case is approximately 1-2 years ago (given Shinichis and Rans appearance).
In this case Vermouth at one point was disguised as Radish Redwood, the police-captain.
The important point is, that when she pulls off her mask, she actually is old.

I dont think at that point, that she had a second ("old") mask on her.
I dont think that she had some "old looking" make up on her either.
That means Vermouth actually at that point, was old.

Sharons age was never mentioned but since Chris was introduced as 29 years old - to keep up the disguise it must have been logical
for Sharon to be atleast 20 years older -> about 50.

So Sharon was old - but now she apparently is in her 20s/30s - and NOT a kid.
So she must have taken either APTX 4896 (with another effect on her) or one of the drugs Haibara mentions at CH 948 P 4.

What I want to say:
Vermouth is the living proof that there is no way to guess Rums current age.

And if someones counter it with "Rum had no reason to take the drug" then you might tell me why Vermouth took it.
No answer will come, since noone knows it.
So it´s kinda brave to rule out that Rum took it.
Just sayin..

That goes against the fact that Vermouth admits that she doesn't age and always had to pretend to be older to be Sharon in the Mystery Train.

Also: why would Vermouth go to great lengths to hide the fact that the APTX shrunk Conan and Haibara if the shrinking effects of the drug (or any shrinking effects) was a known thing that she used and that the number two in the BO used? One of the biggest point of the MT is that the BO doesn't know about shrinking and that Vermouth wants to keep it that way. Now, even if we assume that your point is correct and Vermouth took the APTX or any other drug to make herself younger and doesn't want the other BO to know to protect herself or something, there is still no logical reason for Rum to take the drug if the rest of the BO is unaware of shrinking. And if he used it, there would be no point in Vermouth hiding it from them, but she does.
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 8th, 2016, 3:55 am

Serinox wrote:Also: why would Vermouth go to great lengths to hide the fact that the APTX shrunk Conan and Haibara if the shrinking effects of the drug (or any shrinking effects) was a known thing that she used and that the number two in the BO used? One of the biggest point of the MT is that the BO doesn't know about shrinking and that Vermouth wants to keep it that way. Now, even if we assume that your point is correct and Vermouth took the APTX or any other drug to make herself younger and doesn't want the other BO to know to protect herself or something, there is still no logical reason for Rum to take the drug if the rest of the BO is unaware of shrinking. And if he used it, there would be no point in Vermouth hiding it from them, but she does.

Unless Vermouth, Rum and the Boss are in on it and are hiding it from the rest(Which I highly doubt!).
I doubt the BO even knows of her double identity.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

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Serinox
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Serinox » December 8th, 2016, 4:58 am

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Serinox wrote:Also: why would Vermouth go to great lengths to hide the fact that the APTX shrunk Conan and Haibara if the shrinking effects of the drug (or any shrinking effects) was a known thing that she used and that the number two in the BO used? One of the biggest point of the MT is that the BO doesn't know about shrinking and that Vermouth wants to keep it that way. Now, even if we assume that your point is correct and Vermouth took the APTX or any other drug to make herself younger and doesn't want the other BO to know to protect herself or something, there is still no logical reason for Rum to take the drug if the rest of the BO is unaware of shrinking. And if he used it, there would be no point in Vermouth hiding it from them, but she does.

Unless Vermouth, Rum and the Boss are in on it and are hiding it from the rest(Which I highly doubt!).
I doubt the BO even knows of her double identity.

Though then it wouldn't make sense to send Bourbon after Sherry. If the Boss knew about shrinking and didn't want anyone else to find out like Vermouth (I mean, if he didn't care about shrinking info getting around, he would've just told Gin), he would've just send out Vermouth on a second try or sent out Rum himself, since they already know. Sending Bourbon, a highly competent detective (which he is known for in the BO), would create too big of a risk of the shrinking secret coming out.
dccd
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby dccd » December 8th, 2016, 8:16 am

You´re right Serinox. It´s CH 823 P4.

I still wouldn´t rule out entirely the possibilty of Rum have taken APTX or the haibara-parents-drug.
Especially since we still have no single clue what happened 17 years ago.

One logical reason might be, that Rum wanted to kill himself instead of being catched by the police (maybe being catched by Kuroda or Daddy Akai?)
and see himself being forced to take APTX/X-Drug.

Well... all in all i won´t rule it out, simply because we have no proof to do so.
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = -
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » December 9th, 2016, 8:40 am

dccd wrote:Rum wanted to kill himself instead of being catched by the police (maybe being catched by Kuroda or Daddy Akai?)
and see himself being forced to take APTX/X-Drug.


If this happened just after the Amanda/Koji double-murder, then he could've just killed himself by jumping out a window—in a hotel, there'd be plenty to choose from.

I also find it doubtful he was overpowered by a single person, or even caught—back then, at the very least, Rum would've been more agile, compared to now.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
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dccd
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby dccd » December 9th, 2016, 9:40 am

To quote yourself:
"True, one must make a lot of assumptions, as we have so little info, at this point"

But well, you cant seriously deny it, that in secret-agent-stories there is the element of an agent commiting suicide.
Even Gosho used that element already in the person of Calvados.

So neither I cant prove it nor you cant deny it - thus atleast I will keep this possibilty in the back of my mind.
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = -
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
DCUniverseAficionado
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » December 9th, 2016, 11:17 am

dccd wrote:To quote yourself:
"True, one must make a lot of assumptions, as we have so little info, at this point"

But well, you cant seriously deny it, that in secret-agent-stories there is the element of an agent commiting suicide.
Even Gosho used that element already in the person of Calvados.

so neither I cant prove it nor you cant deny it - thus atleast I will keep this possibilty in the back of my mind.


Calvados shot himself—he didn't use APTX.

There being no precedent for BO members committing suicide via APTX is why I consider it very unlikely—not impossible, very unlikely—that Rum tried to kill himself with APTX.

Again, for me, what you've suggested is very unlikely, but not impossible. So I'll never discount it. But very unlikely is very unlikely.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
sanchai95
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby sanchai95 » December 9th, 2016, 1:09 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Tantei San wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

"- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura"
If my "Haibara can only sense people she has met in the past" theory is correct, then this argument is also invalid, since she claims to have never met Rum.

"- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)"
Mary was likely forced with the drug around the beginning of the Bourbon arc, and then decided to fly back to Japan with Masumi (since it would otherwise imply that she did nothing for a long period of time after shrinking), and since we don't know when Kuroda woke up, he could have still managed to fly to the UK and attack her.

"- He was introduced kinda as a red herring"
That's not an argument...just an impression :P

Another argument is about him not recognizing Sherry, but even that can be blamed on memory loss due to the accident, which made him forget her youthful look.

In the end, he is still a strong Rum suspect, compared to Wakita, who likely doesn't have an artificial eye.

Spoiler:
But why would mary fly back to japan when she knows that BO is japan-based , I mean yeah! for the search of its antidote, if she was in contact with Akai, then i guess there was no need. Had the BO been captured , APTX's antidote would be already out and then he could've given her secretly.

Because problems doesn't solve itself. She knows about her niece being the creator of APTX and hoped to find her in Japan and get an antidote, and after witnessing Shinichi as a shrunken adult in Wimbledon, they had all the more reasons to find out how he is involved and what they could gain from him.


With how much Gosho made a fuss of Shinichi/Conan flying out of Japan and into England, and vice versa, I highly doubt Mary was shrunk outside of Japan. If she was on the run, why would she have the materials/info to create a temporary antidote for her flight back (like Ai did for Conan)? I reckon she was shrunk in Japan as a 'last resort' when the people who were after her closed in on her, and she kept a spare APTX she found somewhere (or if she had ties with BO)- maybe it was sent to her by papa Akai with a note saying "when all else fails use this to disappear" (e.g. to commit suicide). Not sure how she obtained it, but I disagree with the theory of her flying back to Japan after. I feel like she stayed in Japan after the Kohji case anyways, on advice from Papa Akai right?
I started reading Detective Conan as a kid, I loved every part of it even when I didn't understand the science or logic behind a case. Now as an adult, it's bitter sweet knowing the series has lasted this long, because I am still surprised at what Gosho has to over but sad knowing soon a big part of my life will come to an end. I'm glad to know there are people out there who love this series as much as I do and is willing to lose sleep just to discuss the intricate plot.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 9th, 2016, 1:16 pm

sanchai95 wrote:with much Gosho made a fuss of Shinichi/Conan flying out of Japan and into England, and vice versa, I highly doubt Mary was shrunk outside of Japan. If she was on the run, why would she have the materials/info to create a temporary antidote for her flight back (like Ai did for Conan)? I reckon she was shrunk in Japan as a 'last resort' when the people who were after her closed in on her, and she kept a spare APTX she found somewhere (or if she had ties with BO)- maybe it was sent to her by papa Akai with a note saying "when all else fails use this to disappear" (e.g. to commit suicide). Not sure how she obtained it, but I disagree with the theory of her flying back to Japan after. I feel like she stayed in Japan after the Kohji case anyways, on advice from Papa Akai right?

Or Shrunken Mary and Sera Masumi got help from James Black(Father friend) in getting through the inspections and fly to Japan.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
dccd
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby dccd » December 9th, 2016, 7:57 pm

Since some people suggested Chikara Katsumata, Ryusuke Higo as Rum I´d like to read on how they came up with this idea since its
kinda unconvential - or to be concrete: Whats your moment of suspicion?

This is how I got to my moment:
Since Rums objective isnt clear up til now.
I personally believe its either hunting down the bo-spies (1) or hunting Mary (2).
Well, since atleast I dont see any clues for (1) in the manga(!) I go with (2) - but still (1) is possible aswell, since it makes a lot of sense at this point in the story.
But lets keep it with (2) - Hunting Mary.

Why I believe this:
- She obviously was shrinked by ATPX.
- She obviously is scared, because someone is after her.
- Noone of the bo mentioned her by now - atleast Gin, Vodka, Verm and Bourbon doesnt seem as they would be on a hunt.
- When Gin and Co. where on the "Ai-hunt" they kept mentioning her all the time. This is why i believe that...
Rum is hunting Mary.

So is there any noticable thing Mary´s doing?
She keeps changing hotels.
So if you were Rum, what would you do?
For me it would be logical to search for places she might be - maybe with some relative?
So Shuichi, Shukichi and Sera. Since Shuichi is officially dead, that leaves us Shukichi and Sera.

So is there any character that was close to Shukichi at one point? Yes
And was this character also shown at a hotel afterwards? Yes


Sera was even left home "by Gosho" in this characters first appearening chapter, Ch 781.
Sera didnt even met this character by now. (but its noticable that Sera didnt met any of the Rum-candidates until now, did she?)
But well.. we´ll see.
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = -
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Serinox
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Serinox » December 9th, 2016, 8:40 pm

dccd wrote:I personally believe its either hunting down the bo-spies (1) or hunting Mary (2).
Well, since atleast I dont see any clues for (1) in the manga(!) I go with (2) - but still (1) is possible aswell, since it makes a lot of sense at this point in the story.

You don't see Vermouth first mentioning actions against the rats inside the BO in the same chapter that we first learn that Rum is making his move as a clue towards (1)?

And what hints are there really for (2)? Mary seems to be hiding and switches hotels, but that's about it. On the other hand Masumi has no idea about the BO according to Gosho (yes, I don't like that either but he said it after all) and Mary seems comfortable with running around in an open hotel lobby and in a crowded hallway, so she's not completely focused/paranoid on hiding in her room all the time.

dccd wrote:- When Gin and Co. where on the "Ai-hunt" they kept mentioning her all the time. This is why i believe that...

Though you have to keep in mind that Gin only appeared once since the whole Rum stuff started and there was a more pressing issue at the time to discuss. Vermouth and Bourbon have other stuff to do, yes, but we haven't seen enough of Gin recently to make a good guess towards his current objective.

dccd wrote:So is there any character that was close to Shukichi at one point? Yes
And was this character also shown at a hotel afterwards? Yes

Okay, the first point I can kinda see, but why would Sakurako just randomly check a hotel? If she's done investigating Shukichi, why is she not directly investigating Masumi (can always just follow her to her hotel from school) instead of taking a job at a random hotel?
dccd
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby dccd » December 9th, 2016, 9:24 pm

Nope, I really missed this.
Good to know you always show me the infos i miss :)

But well, u still have to admit someone is hunting Mary.
Since she took or was forced to take APTX this someone has to be from the BO.
And since we´re in the Rum-Arc... but well, time will tell.

I dont rule (1) out. Rum might actually do both - (1) and (2).

Maybe she didnt found Sera yet or she did and is actually preparing the big assault on Mary right now.
(thats what i expect for CH1000).
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = -
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
[ ] Iori = just a butler
Akkimikki
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Akkimikki » January 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Well...
It might be that Gosho is cheating us with these characters (Wakasa Rumi, Kuroda, Yamato ecc.) when actually there's a character who works behind the scenes and he or she is the real Rum.
Ok, it's a shot in the dark, but we have to consider that these characters might be Rum but at the same time might not be him because we have some contradictory elements.
So I think that Rum might be another person.
(and we have to remember what Ai said about Rum
he is:
-an old man
-a feminine man
-a muscle-man
and he/she lost his/her eye on an accident)

and...

SPOILER movie 20:
Spoiler:
When Rum appeared, there's a display (?) and on this last appeared some numbers. So, if it wasn't just for show, it might be an important detail.
So... Rum might be a character who's involved with technology that appeared before chapter number "X" (I don't remember the number LOL).


or Rum is a person who is old, femenine, muscle at the same time, depending on how you look at he/she.


But this is a really general teory.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » January 29th, 2017, 1:26 pm

Still wondering if Iori has a traditional speach pattern...
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Spimer
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Spimer » January 29th, 2017, 1:36 pm

I've checked that but he doesn't seem to. He uses formal speech the whole time but it's modern Japanese and not archaic Japanese.
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