What's the identity of Rum?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » July 29th, 2017, 1:42 am

I would like to point out logical deficiencies in your assumptions.

a) If the messy room wasn't a result between Rum and Haneda's fight, then who did it and what one simply does gain from it? By making a room deliberately messy means leaving your footprints and fingerprints everywhere. Who in his sane mind would like to do that, especially to a murder case scenario?
Rum's screw-up was only an untidy job, till now nobody suspects Rum. Asaka is suspected but still is at large.But Rum wasn't Asaka,(if that was the case then Amanda would have been killed much earlier and Asaka would make the scene as if Amanda suffered from a cardiac arrest.), so it's just a screw-up by BO standards and in Gin's opinion.

b) The question is why Haneda would be entrusted with the pill case in the first place? If Amanda really wanted to hide it Asaka would have been a far better choice? She must had trust in Asaka and Asaka being a bodyguard would have been more capable than Haneda in protecting it. If she had ties with CIA and FBI then why Amanda didn't pass it to either of the agencies?
Then on top of that you force an unfounded opinion on Haneda's test in pill-cases. It makes your theory more improbable. Look up Occam's razor, you'll understand why your thery holds nothing at all.
The scissor which was found in the crime scene was devoid of blood and human DNA. Even if it was washed thoroughly by Rum it would have given a positive Luminol reaction. Also it's very unlikely for a stabbed Rum to get the stuff from Haneda's hand wash it clean and leave no blood-stain and DNA in the meantime.

c)Again jumping into conclusion without thinking it through. The question here is why BO thinks that Haneda was in a position to leave a dying message regarding his killer?
It can be easily deduced that Rum was acquainted to Haneda by his social persona. The example you gave was quite illogical to begin with, the existence of "Bush" doesn't implicate the President Bush, it only implicates any "Bush" whose surname was known to the victim and who had a reason enough to be present near the victim without raising any suspicion.

d) The thing is Shukichi's name changed when he decided to stay back in Japan to pursue the path of the Shogi. His surname was changed to Haneda as he reveres Haneda Kohji. It never means/stated that Akai's and Kohji's were relatives. It's never being stated for once that Akai family knew Amanda. So two unfounded and hyperbolic assumptions. Amanda was an aristocratic lady with a love for Shogi. Haneda Kohji was a Shogi champ. It's evident that they were bound to be on good cordial terms even without "Your invented and unfounded connexions." Warren Buffet enjoys cordial relationship with Michael Jordan. Do they need a third party to get introduced?????

e) Why would akai Tsutomu know someone in FBI/CIA if he was an UK citizen? If you said that he was with MI6 I would have given it a thought, but your CIA/FBI fetish will get you to nowhere.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby blackmoon » July 30th, 2017, 3:38 am

"If the messy room wasn't a result between Rum and Haneda's fight, then who did it and what one simply does gain from it? By making a room deliberately messy means leaving your footprints and fingerprints everywhere. Who in his sane mind would like to do that, especially to a murder case scenario?"

Precisely! Which is why I try pointing out that it couldn't be done by RUM because doing something so stupid couldn't possibly make him becoming No.2 and he most likely already got rid by boss after screwing up if he did screw up this way.
WHO did it? Someone who knows about the Kohji case and wants people to PAY attention to the case.
"Someone has been constantly uploading information related to the case online if it gets taken down puts them back up again. It's almost as if that person is saying... please help me solve this mystery"
http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Detective_Conan_948_6
(I do agree with you that Rum wasn't Asaka and that if he were then Amanda would have been killed much earlier. And it was most likely Asaka who stopped RUM from murdering Amanda sooner.)

"The question is why Haneda would be entrusted with the pill case in the first place? If Amanda really wanted to hide it Asaka would have been a far better choice? She must had trust in Asaka and Asaka being a bodyguard would have been more capable than Haneda in protecting it. If she had ties with CIA and FBI then why Amanda didn't pass it to either of the agencies?"

She arranged meeting with Haneda to pass it through Haneda (who may be associated with the Akai-family Tsutomu who may be associated with UK Scotland Yard... yeah... I'll get to that explanation later) would lessen the suspicion from BO because if she was associated with BO she would know she was being constantly watched so if she passed it to the agencies it would immediately get attention from BO that was watching her and if she passed to Asaka the bodyguard it would also make Asaka an obvious target for BO and she think she can trick BO and they would not suspect Haneda (into thinking their meeting was just a simple tea meeting to discuss about Shogi).

"The scissor which was found in the crime scene was devoid of blood and human DNA. Even if it was washed thoroughly by Rum it would have given a positive Luminol reaction. Also it's very unlikely for a stabbed Rum to get the stuff from Haneda's hand wash it clean and leave no blood-stain and DNA in the meantime."
Yeah well, I'll agree with that. But it would be strange if Haneda was bruised and they did not find any finger print or blood stain associated with the intruder... that should indicate some kind of clean up involve otherwise if a fight like that did happen between RUM and Haneda it definitely should leave some traces of hair sample or finger prints or blood stains.

"It can be easily deduced that Rum was acquainted to Haneda by his social persona."
Well actually for the "death message" to be true it relies on the assumption that Haneda was acquainted with RUM which I try to say was not the case. If he was not acquainted with RUM then he would not know his name so that 'dying message' could not possibly be left by him but most likely left by someone else.

"The thing is Shukichi's name changed when he decided to stay back in Japan to pursue the path of the Shogi. His surname was changed to Haneda as he reveres Haneda Kohji. It never means/stated that Akai's and Kohji's were relatives." Well yeah, but Sera and Mary's reaction to the name Kohji seemed really unusual (an reaction that is MUCH more than if you saw on the news about some person that were murdered who was unrelated to you.) It's almost as if they knew him from before. So you also cannot say the Akai family do not know him or he did not know the Akai family. http://www3.mangafreak.net/Read1_Detective_Conan_952_5

"Why would akai Tsutomu know someone in FBI/CIA if he was an UK citizen? If you said that he was with MI6 I would have given it a thought, but your CIA/FBI fetish will get you to nowhere."

Well, you also cannot prove that Tsutomu did not know people who are in CIA\FBI. Consider the possibility of his association with Scotland Yard: "If Conan and Ran met Sera and her family in UK, then it must have been on a trip, which Yusaku and Yukiko brought them on... Yusaku did mention in the big London case that he had friends in Scotland Yard. Perhaps there is a connection there to the Akai-family."
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Zerozaki4869
Posts: 146

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Zerozaki4869 » July 30th, 2017, 10:35 am

The thing is

a)You're ignoring the fact that BO was interested in the dying message(hence Vermouth abd Rei's presence dyring the Asaca song case). If Rum had left it to misled the investigators then why BO is so jumpy about it?
If Rum had left it in the first place why it's so hard to find? Shouldn't it be more straight forward?

b) Kohji was participating in a Chess competition as he was also a good chess player. So Amanda meeting Kohji in the Juke Hotel appears to be a coincidence. Also you don't answer me about the fact that why Amanda had thought that Kohji can keep the APTX better instead of the Scotland Yard/FBI/CIA/MI6/MI5/NPA??

c)Well you also can't prove that there isn't a monster hiding under your bed and whenever you look down, it hides itself in the higher dimensions. Go prove me wrong.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby blackmoon » July 30th, 2017, 9:16 pm

"You're ignoring the fact that BO was interested in the dying message(hence Vermouth abd Rei's presence dyring the Asaca song case). If Rum had left it to misled the investigators then why BO is so jumpy about it?"

It's just a theory. I'm assuming RUM left it to mislead investigators and to lure out Asaka who escaped. BO is jumpy because any message related to Asaca (since there was no 'K' in the original 'dying' message, so they are only interested in anything related to Asaca spelled with a 'C' in the original message left possibly by RUM) could indicate the presence Asaka or people who know about the presence of Asaka so they could find Asaka and finish him\her off.

"Kohji was participating in a Chess competition as he was also a good chess player. So Amanda meeting Kohji in the Juke Hotel appears to be a coincidence. Also you don't answer me about the fact that why Amanda had thought that Kohji can keep the APTX better instead of the Scotland Yard/FBI/CIA/MI6/MI5/NPA??"

It could be JUST coincidence or it could be a well planned arranged meeting for Amanda to meet with Kohji then for Kohji to pass on whatever valuable thing Amanda had to the agencies because Amanda was most likely being watched constantly but she thought BO would not suspect Kohji's involvement in passing it to the agencies (that they wouldn't keep an eye on Kohji... turns out RUM was smarter than that.)

"Well you also can't prove that there isn't a monster hiding under your bed and whenever you look down, it hides itself in the higher dimensions. Go prove me wrong."

Right, anything hiding under my bed must be a rat, and speaking of monsters, you think Conan is possessed by something???? What are we talking about? Hiding itself in higher dimensions? ::)
http://pm1.narvii.com/6187/05ed18f3a3f1 ... 670_hq.jpg
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby blackmoon » August 2nd, 2017, 1:34 am

A potential candidate for Rum from the Kaito Kid arc: "Spider is considered by a magazine as "The Best Illusionist in the World" His stage appearance is an averagely built young, foreign man with long blond hair. While onstage, Spider's skin is white and pale. His true skin color, however, is a brownish-tan with what appears to be a spider tattoo on his left eye... Spider also seems to be able to apply some sort of hypnotization on the victims who have suffered from his illusions, making them subconsciously perform a certain action.
As an assassin, his preferred weapons are needles which can be thrown. He is also athletic.

Spider has excellent disguise skills; he was even able to fool Kaito Kuroba by mimicking an old woman and her voice. It is unclear how much this ability was due to his illusions and gadgets versus pure acting, makeup, and voice talent. When Snake and his boss fail to kill Kaitou Kid, "that person" reprimands Snake's boss through a video chat and orders him to contact Spider."

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... hianti.PNG

And who knows maybe what Amanda had, which "may" be passed to Kohji ,which may have led to both their deaths could be that Pandora gem (from Kaitou kid arc) "which grants eternal life to the one who drinks its tears when Volley comet passes over."
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1317

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 2nd, 2017, 5:50 am

blackmoon wrote:A potential candidate for Rum from the Kaito Kid arc: "Spider is considered by a magazine as "The Best Illusionist in the World" His stage appearance is an averagely built young, foreign man with long blond hair. While onstage, Spider's skin is white and pale. His true skin color, however, is a brownish-tan with what appears to be a spider tattoo on his left eye... Spider also seems to be able to apply some sort of hypnotization on the victims who have suffered from his illusions, making them subconsciously perform a certain action.
As an assassin, his preferred weapons are needles which can be thrown. He is also athletic.

Spider has excellent disguise skills; he was even able to fool Kaito Kuroba by mimicking an old woman and her voice. It is unclear how much this ability was due to his illusions and gadgets versus pure acting, makeup, and voice talent. When Snake and his boss fail to kill Kaitou Kid, "that person" reprimands Snake's boss through a video chat and orders him to contact Spider."

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... hianti.PNG

And who knows maybe what Amanda had, which "may" be passed to Kohji ,which may have led to both their deaths could be that Pandora gem (from Kaitou kid arc) "which grants eternal life to the one who drinks its tears when Volley comet passes over."


Spider was an anime-only character in the 2010–2012 adaption of Magic Kaito—he's not from the MK manga, let alone the DC manga or even the DC anime. An anime-only character from another series turning out to be Rum?... let's just say the odds of that happening aren't anywhere near high.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Iwamoto Yuri
User avatar

SPARKLES

Posts: 2452

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Iwamoto Yuri » August 2nd, 2017, 11:03 am

Yeah, it's unlikely for spider to be Rum, but never say characters that are AO are ruled out instantly, especially since both Takagi and Shiratori owe their existence to the movies and anime.

Also, Kaito KID is an arc now? I thought it was an original show ;).

Honestly, though, it'd be a strange move for him to use an AO character at this stage. It's most likely someone we met so far or a character yet to be introduced.
I'd say my major suspects are the cop and the teacher, but I recently wondered if it's not possible for Rum to be multiple people considering the many descriptions they got.
That was just a thought, though XD.
The Yuri to Japan give-away is back once more! Go HERE to check it out!
Image
3DS Friend Code: 1564-5101-4615
Yuri gets advice from little fairies, and is thereby not held responsible for any stupid action
pixiv | etsy | livestream
The Doctor wrote:There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1317

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 2nd, 2017, 3:52 pm

Iwamoto Yuri wrote:....but never say characters that are AO are ruled out instantly, especially since both Takagi and Shiratori owe their existence to the movies and anime.


Eh, I get your point, but Spider isn't even a DC character. And MK and DC don't exactly have fluid continuity. Is it 100% impossible for Spider to eventually turn out to be Rum? No... but it's pretty darn close, if you ask me.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
MeiTanteixX
User avatar
Posts: 1138

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » August 2nd, 2017, 5:05 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Iwamoto Yuri wrote:....but never say characters that are AO are ruled out instantly, especially since both Takagi and Shiratori owe their existence to the movies and anime.


Eh, I get your point, but Spider isn't even a DC character. And MK and DC don't exactly have fluid continuity. Is it 100% impossible for Spider to eventually turn out to be Rum? No... but it's pretty darn close, if you ask me.
I dare to call it absolutely impossible.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Iwamoto Yuri
User avatar

SPARKLES

Posts: 2452

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Iwamoto Yuri » August 3rd, 2017, 2:50 am

I never said I thought it was possible yk :V.
Pretty sure the chance of him being Rum is -2000%.
The Yuri to Japan give-away is back once more! Go HERE to check it out!
Image
3DS Friend Code: 1564-5101-4615
Yuri gets advice from little fairies, and is thereby not held responsible for any stupid action
pixiv | etsy | livestream
The Doctor wrote:There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby blackmoon » August 3rd, 2017, 4:29 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
Iwamoto Yuri wrote:....but never say characters that are AO are ruled out instantly, especially since both Takagi and Shiratori owe their existence to the movies and anime.


Eh, I get your point, but Spider isn't even a DC character. And MK and DC don't exactly have fluid continuity. Is it 100% impossible for Spider to eventually turn out to be Rum? No... but it's pretty darn close, if you ask me.


Yeah, I know it's unlikely... BUT... the description of such a character like Spider would fit and explain the characteristic of what RUM could be...

1. Excellent disguise skills (capable of mimicking an old man and speak in voice of an old man and capable of mimicking any male or female and speak in voice of male or female): maybe even able to pretend to be someone else and fool those who actually know the person. Wouldn't be a surprise if that's the case since even Vermouth who is not No.2 is able to do this.

2. Excellent combat\athletic\assassination skill: should be a common and standard requirement for a high-ranking BO member... especially a No.2 who shouldn't just rely on underlings to protect and defend oneself.

3. May able to apply some sort of hypnosis on victims who suffer from his illusions even making them subconsciously perform a certain action. Well, this is only a guess that is not yet proven, but considering how the RUM in the Conan movie the Darkest Nightmare seem to be able to make use of a BO agent with brain damage and take advantage of that by making her brain function like a secret storage hard-disk upon witnessing a combination of five colors, then it's not so much a wild guess.
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Iwamoto Yuri
User avatar

SPARKLES

Posts: 2452

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Iwamoto Yuri » August 3rd, 2017, 8:29 am

There's several points you're missing here, though! Mainly that Spider was a one off character created to make the specials based on the Magic Kaito manga more interesting to viewers as well as giving Hakuba more of a motive to follow KID (instead of just letting him be the spoiled teen he was supposed to be). I know I said that discrediting characters just because they were anime originals was something you should avoid, but there's more reasons why I'm certain it's not Spider.
The first one being that the organisation KID is up against isn't the same as the BO. Gosho stated this himself, so why would he borrow an extra character appearing in an AO spinoff that was hired to chase KID?
Secondly, movie canon isn't manga canon, as well as anime canon not being manga canon. There's a lot of things the Anime got wrong at the start, and while it's true Shiratori was a Movie Original character he was still borrowed from a Detective Conan movie and not a KID one. Besides that, Gosho wants to avoid using KID to solve the BO case as much as possible. If he were to use Spider he'd have to involve KID in it somehow to make sense of his choice. Considering he hasn't made an appearance in the new files of the MK manga, though, it's save to assume it's a character that will remain to be AO.
You should really keep in mind that the Anime (and especially the Magic Kaito specials, because they're not an arc, just specials) is not the same thing as the Manga, as well as the movies not being canon to the Anime either. They're separate mediums which the manga sometimes happens to borrow from, but they're still separate mediums and should be viewed as such.
The Yuri to Japan give-away is back once more! Go HERE to check it out!
Image
3DS Friend Code: 1564-5101-4615
Yuri gets advice from little fairies, and is thereby not held responsible for any stupid action
pixiv | etsy | livestream
The Doctor wrote:There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes.
blackmoon
User avatar
Posts: 21

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby blackmoon » August 3rd, 2017, 10:46 pm

Iwamoto Yuri wrote:There's several points you're missing here, though! Mainly that Spider was a one off character created to make the specials based on the Magic Kaito manga more interesting to viewers as well as giving Hakuba more of a motive to follow KID (instead of just letting him be the spoiled teen he was supposed to be). I know I said that discrediting characters just because they were anime originals was something you should avoid, but there's more reasons why I'm certain it's not Spider.
The first one being that the organisation KID is up against isn't the same as the BO. Gosho stated this himself, so why would he borrow an extra character appearing in an AO spinoff that was hired to chase KID?
Secondly, movie canon isn't manga canon, as well as anime canon not being manga canon. There's a lot of things the Anime got wrong at the start, and while it's true Shiratori was a Movie Original character he was still borrowed from a Detective Conan movie and not a KID one. Besides that, Gosho wants to avoid using KID to solve the BO case as much as possible. If he were to use Spider he'd have to involve KID in it somehow to make sense of his choice. Considering he hasn't made an appearance in the new files of the MK manga, though, it's save to assume it's a character that will remain to be AO.
You should really keep in mind that the Anime (and especially the Magic Kaito specials, because they're not an arc, just specials) is not the same thing as the Manga, as well as the movies not being canon to the Anime either. They're separate mediums which the manga sometimes happens to borrow from, but they're still separate mediums and should be viewed as such.


Okay, thanks for clarifying those points and pointing out that there are essentially two separate universes, so... it may not be THE Spider from Magic Kaito, but I'm basically betting that RUM could be someone who is like Spider and have the skills and characteristics like Spider.

By the way, I was kind of hoping that the reason why Conan and Kaito kid look so alike was because they were separated twins or bastard sons of THAT person or both clones of the same person. And yeah, after your explanation I sorta realize that could not be the case. So thank you! ;D
"one should stick with one's original plan" (初志貫徹 shoshi kantetsu) ;)
Haibara & Aika ryona
User avatar
Posts: 97

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » September 6th, 2017, 9:59 am

he Is a new goast called "Goast Rum"; because his name is "Rum", and we had one killer called "Goast Rim", and because Rum and Rim are similar so I called rum as Goast Rum. Also he is like a ghost. So this ghost has a new thread. I think he will appear when I will die ;)
Haibara & Aika ryona
User avatar
Posts: 97

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Haibara & Aika ryona » September 14th, 2017, 5:58 am

And also after all these waiting, he will be an ordinary character who is really stupid, and don't have a real impact in the story, and just an ordinary member in the entire BO, just giving him the second member after the boss doesn't mean that it will surprise me, and I will impress and interest

Return to “Story Discussion (Manga Spoilers)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Serinox, Viper and 17 guests