What's the identity of Rum?

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Absenta
Posts: 36

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Absenta » November 26th, 2016, 12:55 pm

What is the role of RUM inside the organization¿?

That would be a good point to research...

- As what we seen seems to have more refined jobs, I don´t think he get´s his hands dirty, assasination stuff seems better for Gin.
(But I don´t know why he did that mission years ago, the ASACA stuff, maybe because he/she was younger)
In fact, we don´t know if Aoyama thought in a second in command member from early on, I don´t know why Gin has direct orders from anokata sometimes, along with Kir...Rum could be a link just for safety. I just remember when Gin killed Pisco, maybe anokata just sends quick sms and Rum coordinates all the quirky operations, still, Gin doesn´t seem to have a special simpathy for him.

- As we saw in the 20th movie he decides who to trust inside the organization, secunded by Anokata I imagine, because he let alive Curacao. Maybe he searches and enroll new members into the BO (really bad job I have to say x D)

- He has a direct line with Vermouth, rather than Kir, Gin or other members. So he must know well Vermouth and he is in a superior rank than her, altough some emotional link that she has with the boss.

- Also, in the movie (I know it´s canon but was supervised by Aoyama) when that weird scene appears and Rum gives another opportunity to Curacao...a screen appears with Nº 002, would that mean , also being the second in command, the first person that followed anokata when he created the BO... What does he say exactly when he talks in movie 20¿?

- What I think about Rum is that he has contacts all over the place, linked with enterprises, politicians, and the police. Anokata can be the mastermind, but Rum should have the ability to make real all the stuff the boss thinks. Also, I think Rum is the only person that checks Vermouth, as he has been pressumibly from the beggining he should understand why she is his favourite. And RUM must know anokata in person along with Vermouth.

Conan and the "good" side don´t know that Vermouth is the boss´s favourite. Only inside the BO.
Spimer
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Spimer » November 26th, 2016, 2:01 pm

Well, the Asaka murder was 17 years ago, RUM could've been a novice by the time but with time he's become more and more capable and finally got promoted to No. 2 of the BO.

Akai said he was a big fish, more important than Gin.

Maybe RUM only interevenes in special occasions and is like a backup or a deputy in case something happens to the boss, maybe the boss needs someone who can keep an eye on the BO members to make sure they don't do something that would harm the BO (like overseeing Gin, for example. Back when the Mystery Train he did intend to blow up the train with Vermouth and Bourbon onboard after all).

What we musn't forget is that because he has an artificial eye RUM doesn't need to outstand from a normal person at a first glance: nowadays eye prothesis also can move so they look like a real eye.

We don't know what kind of "accident" made him lose an eye, might be something that didn't leave scars or burns on him so in terms of face he looks like a normal person and might not stand out.

In M20 RUM's dialogue goes like this:

Spoiler:
"Wait."

"Step back, Vermouth"

"Curacao, you've got no color. The only thing you have is pure-black darkness."

"If that darkness is making you suffer, then... Paint it over with another color. Use your special abilities for MY sake only. Along with your inputs and outputs... And become my right hand agent. Curacao."

Vermout then gets a call by RUM telling her he got a message apparently by Curacao that Bourbon and Kir are not NOCs but is doubtful about wheter Curacao really sent it so he orders Vermouth and the others to verify it by getting her back from police custody.
"I shall revive again, again AND AGAIN!"
alex_mercer09

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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby alex_mercer09 » November 30th, 2016, 2:16 pm

Spoiler:
well this is just a theory and i'm new to this community....so i was wondering that wakasa rumi is the most suspiscious...she certainly fits the asaka silhouette from earlier case...Also she has fighting abilities and can pass as good bodyguard...also assuming she was the behind haneda koji's murder then the original dying message should be ACASA RUM instead if ASaca Rum and its pointing to her name since W and I were not available...with this completing the original dying message as WACASA RUMI .....
Tantei San
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Tantei San » December 1st, 2016, 1:10 pm

alex_mercer09 wrote:
Spoiler:
well this is just a theory and i'm new to this community....so i was wondering that wakasa rumi is the most suspiscious...she certainly fits the asaka silhouette from earlier case...Also she has fighting abilities and can pass as good bodyguard...also assuming she was the behind haneda koji's murder then the original dying message should be ACASA RUM instead if ASaca Rum and its pointing to her name since W and I were not available...with this completing the original dying message as WACASA RUMI .....

Sorry to say, but everyone have the same theory for which rumi wakasa is a red herring and no it is K-->C
dccd
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby dccd » December 1st, 2016, 1:16 pm

Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?
[ ] Yonehara or Yoko = Rum (Yonehara is male)
[ ] Kuroda = Amuros Boss
[x] MG = Mrs. Akai
[x] Haneda = Brother Akai
[ ] Asaka = Mrs. Akai (Mary)
[ ] Rumi = Kojis GF
[ ] Wakita = Bo-Member Whiskey
Tantei San
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Tantei San » December 1st, 2016, 1:31 pm

dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

Nope..! For the time being..! let's see what sensei has to offer.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 1st, 2016, 1:39 pm

dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

"- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura"
If my "Haibara can only sense people she has met in the past" theory is correct, then this argument is also invalid, since she claims to have never met Rum.

"- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)"
Mary was likely forced with the drug around the beginning of the Bourbon arc, and then decided to fly back to Japan with Masumi (since it would otherwise imply that she did nothing for a long period of time after shrinking), and since we don't know when Kuroda woke up, he could have still managed to fly to the UK and attack her.

"- He was introduced kinda as a red herring"
That's not an argument...just an impression :P

Another argument is about him not recognizing Sherry, but even that can be blamed on memory loss due to the accident, which made him forget her youthful look.

In the end, he is still a strong Rum suspect, compared to Wakita, who likely doesn't have an artificial eye.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
Tantei San
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It's Complicated... It was...It is..And Will remain that way....!!

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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby Tantei San » December 1st, 2016, 1:51 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

"- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura"
If my "Haibara can only sense people she has met in the past" theory is correct, then this argument is also invalid, since she claims to have never met Rum.

"- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)"
Mary was likely forced with the drug around the beginning of the Bourbon arc, and then decided to fly back to Japan with Masumi (since it would otherwise imply that she did nothing for a long period of time after shrinking), and since we don't know when Kuroda woke up, he could have still managed to fly to the UK and attack her.

"- He was introduced kinda as a red herring"
That's not an argument...just an impression :P

Another argument is about him not recognizing Sherry, but even that can be blamed on memory loss due to the accident, which made him forget her youthful look.

In the end, he is still a strong Rum suspect, compared to Wakita, who likely doesn't have an artificial eye.

Spoiler:
But why would mary fly back to japan when she knows that BO is japan-based , I mean yeah! for the search of its antidote, if she was in contact with Akai, then i guess there was no need. Had the BO been captured , APTX's antidote would be already out and then he could've given her secretly.
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 1st, 2016, 2:02 pm

Tantei San wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

"- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura"
If my "Haibara can only sense people she has met in the past" theory is correct, then this argument is also invalid, since she claims to have never met Rum.

"- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)"
Mary was likely forced with the drug around the beginning of the Bourbon arc, and then decided to fly back to Japan with Masumi (since it would otherwise imply that she did nothing for a long period of time after shrinking), and since we don't know when Kuroda woke up, he could have still managed to fly to the UK and attack her.

"- He was introduced kinda as a red herring"
That's not an argument...just an impression :P

Another argument is about him not recognizing Sherry, but even that can be blamed on memory loss due to the accident, which made him forget her youthful look.

In the end, he is still a strong Rum suspect, compared to Wakita, who likely doesn't have an artificial eye.

Spoiler:
But why would mary fly back to japan when she knows that BO is japan-based , I mean yeah! for the search of its antidote, if she was in contact with Akai, then i guess there was no need. Had the BO been captured , APTX's antidote would be already out and then he could've given her secretly.

Because problems doesn't solve itself. She knows about her niece being the creator of APTX and hoped to find her in Japan and get an antidote, and after witnessing Shinichi as a shrunken adult in Wimbledon, they had all the more reasons to find out how he is involved and what they could gain from him.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
kkuuddoo
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Posts: 132

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby kkuuddoo » December 1st, 2016, 3:39 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:
Tantei San wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
dccd wrote:Are there any more aspects against Kuroda being Rum besides...

- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura
- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)
- He was introduced kinda as a red herring

..?

"- Ai doesnt feel the bo-aura"
If my "Haibara can only sense people she has met in the past" theory is correct, then this argument is also invalid, since she claims to have never met Rum.

"- He was 10 years in coma (so he probably wasnt able to shrink Mary on his own in the last 10 years)"
Mary was likely forced with the drug around the beginning of the Bourbon arc, and then decided to fly back to Japan with Masumi (since it would otherwise imply that she did nothing for a long period of time after shrinking), and since we don't know when Kuroda woke up, he could have still managed to fly to the UK and attack her.

"- He was introduced kinda as a red herring"
That's not an argument...just an impression :P

Another argument is about him not recognizing Sherry, but even that can be blamed on memory loss due to the accident, which made him forget her youthful look.

In the end, he is still a strong Rum suspect, compared to Wakita, who likely doesn't have an artificial eye.

Spoiler:
But why would mary fly back to japan when she knows that BO is japan-based , I mean yeah! for the search of its antidote, if she was in contact with Akai, then i guess there was no need. Had the BO been captured , APTX's antidote would be already out and then he could've given her secretly.

Because problems doesn't solve itself. She knows about her niece being the creator of APTX and hoped to find her in Japan and get an antidote, and after witnessing Shinichi as a shrunken adult in Wimbledon, they had all the more reasons to find out how he is involved and what they could gain from him.


Spoiler:
For Haibara BO sensor, We know that it sometimes fails her, and we still don't exactly how it works
for example :
*She felt the BO sense from her own sister Akemi, although she is the one more involved with BO, while Akemi barley.
*She Felt it around Pisco ( She doesn't remember him, he also had to search her to identify her) He was her parents friend and was going to kill her, he called her shiho-chan, but we don't know if they ever met. However she still felt BO aura from him.
* She felt it from Vermouth
>In the Party
>From doctor Ariade
<#>she skipped that medical exam school day
<#>Bus Hijack Episode
<#>Four Porsches Case ( she was sick, Jodie took her home with Agasa, and vermouth was there too as Araide treating her)
<#> ( Not mentioning Halloween case because it was Conan who pretended to be haibara and haibara went there on her own )
>In the Mystery Train ( vermouth as Scar Akai )

*** However she Did not sense vermouth after Mystery Train when Vermouth was the pregnant Women in the Jodie and Sakura tree one hour long Episode

* She felt the Bo aura coming from Akai, and Okiya several times
1- When akai drove by with his car ( Contact with the Black Organization episode )
2- ( Unsure ) when Akai rode the Bus that was Hijacked, she reacted to Vermouth, and she seemed to have reacted to him when he passed by her too )
3- when she first met okiya in the Red, white and Yellow
4- a few more time around Okiya


***She didn't sense Ki'ichiro Numabuchi when Mitsuhiko was lost in the forest

*** she didnt react to much to Bourbon when he saved them from the freezing truck

So weather she met Rum or Not, she might be able to sense him.
We will have to wait and see !!
GIN X SHIHO <3<3<3
VERMOUTH IS SEXY AS HELL !!

Elena Miyano and Atsushi ..... APTX 4869 & Silver Bullet
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 1st, 2016, 5:02 pm

kkuuddoo wrote:
Spoiler:
For Haibara BO sensor, We know that it sometimes fails her, and we still don't exactly how it works
for example :
*She felt the BO sense from her own sister Akemi, although she is the one more involved with BO, while Akemi barley.
*She Felt it around Pisco ( She doesn't remember him, he also had to search her to identify her) He was her parents friend and was going to kill her, he called her shiho-chan, but we don't know if they ever met. However she still felt BO aura from him.
* She felt it from Vermouth
>In the Party
>From doctor Ariade
<#>she skipped that medical exam school day
<#>Bus Hijack Episode
<#>Four Porsches Case ( she was sick, Jodie took her home with Agasa, and vermouth was there too as Araide treating her)
<#> ( Not mentioning Halloween case because it was Conan who pretended to be haibara and haibara went there on her own )
>In the Mystery Train ( vermouth as Scar Akai )

*** However she Did not sense vermouth after Mystery Train when Vermouth was the pregnant Women in the Jodie and Sakura tree one hour long Episode

* She felt the Bo aura coming from Akai, and Okiya several times
1- When akai drove by with his car ( Contact with the Black Organization episode )
2- ( Unsure ) when Akai rode the Bus that was Hijacked, she reacted to Vermouth, and she seemed to have reacted to him when he passed by her too )
3- when she first met okiya in the Red, white and Yellow
4- a few more time around Okiya


***She didn't sense Ki'ichiro Numabuchi when Mitsuhiko was lost in the forest

*** she didnt react to much to Bourbon when he saved them from the freezing truck

So weather she met Rum or Not, she might be able to sense him.
We will have to wait and see !!

*She felt the BO sense from her own sister Akemi, although she is the one more involved with BO, while Akemi barley.
I don't remember her ever saying that. Can you tell me where u got this from?

*She Felt it around Pisco ( She doesn't remember him, he also had to search her to identify her) He was her parents friend and was going to kill her, he called her shiho-chan, but we don't know if they ever met. However she still felt BO aura from him.
Pisco said that she was too young to remember that he was a friend of the miyano's,..this implies that he met her when she was a baby, which is when she subconsciously registered his presence(or smell, as she once put it). That explains why Haibara got a weak feeling from him,...compared to vermouth.

She didn't sense Ki'ichiro Numabuchi when Mitsuhiko was lost in the forest
Who she clearly stated to have never met before, which further supports my theory.

she didnt react to much to Bourbon when he saved them from the freezing truck
She reacted to him during the Detective Nocturne case(when he was approaching from behind with his car). Considering that he was close to Elena, it's not unlikely or surprising that he already met Shiho as a baby too, considering that Elena mentioned her leaving to Rei(which should be after Shiho was already born).

taking all of these occurrences to consideration, if you just assume that Bourbon met Shiho once in the past, you can see the pattern that all the people she has reacted to are people she has met in the past, one way or another(as baby or older)... so unless she met Rum as a baby, she shouldn't be able to sense Rum, according to my theory.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
kkuuddoo
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby kkuuddoo » December 1st, 2016, 6:39 pm

MeiTanteixX wrote:*She felt the BO sense from her own sister Akemi, although she is the one more involved with BO, while Akemi barley.
I don't remember her ever saying that. Can you tell me where u got this from?



Spoiler:
Well there are three different versions to what I remember. In the Case "Mitsuhiko's Mystifying Forest"
Haibara is shocked that she couldn't sense Ki'ichiro Numabuchi, and when conan asked her why she didnt sense him she said that it worry's her and then said :
1- Anime Translation
Haibara " My sister was able to catch their scent, too"
2- Online Manga file Vol 35 chapter 10 page 10
Haibara " That reminds me of you not being able to help my sister back then"
3- Case closed printed Manga Vol 35 chapter 10 page 10/16
Haibara " In The Past, I could even pick up the scent on my Sister "

I have recently stayed up all night reading a few manga volumes from my Case closed collection, and that why I remember it that way.
When you said you don't remember her ever saying that, I did my search and found three different sayings, of course I don't have the Japanese or Chinese version of those old chapters so I can't pin point what she really said. It either of three, maybe the anime one is more accurate since they translated what she said, but we all know that sometimes the anime addition changes things, so I am not quite sure.

*P.S. I am not convinced with the online manga translation, because her sense has nothing to do with Conan not being able to help her sister

After reading your post and your theory, I couldn't agree more, thanks for the clear explanation.
GIN X SHIHO <3<3<3
VERMOUTH IS SEXY AS HELL !!

Elena Miyano and Atsushi ..... APTX 4869 & Silver Bullet
MeiTanteixX
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Posts: 1018

Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 2nd, 2016, 1:44 am

kkuuddoo wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:*She felt the BO sense from her own sister Akemi, although she is the one more involved with BO, while Akemi barley.
I don't remember her ever saying that. Can you tell me where u got this from?



Spoiler:
Well there are three different versions to what I remember. In the Case "Mitsuhiko's Mystifying Forest"
Haibara is shocked that she couldn't sense Ki'ichiro Numabuchi, and when conan asked her why she didnt sense him she said that it worry's her and then said :
1- Anime Translation
Haibara " My sister was able to catch their scent, too"
2- Online Manga file Vol 35 chapter 10 page 10
Haibara " That reminds me of you not being able to help my sister back then"
3- Case closed printed Manga Vol 35 chapter 10 page 10/16
Haibara " In The Past, I could even pick up the scent on my Sister "

I have recently stayed up all night reading a few manga volumes from my Case closed collection, and that why I remember it that way.
When you said you don't remember her ever saying that, I did my search and found three different sayings, of course I don't have the Japanese or Chinese version of those old chapters so I can't pin point what she really said. It either of three, maybe the anime one is more accurate since they translated what she said, but we all know that sometimes the anime addition changes things, so I am not quite sure.

*P.S. I am not convinced with the online manga translation, because her sense has nothing to do with Conan not being able to help her sister

After reading your post and your theory, I couldn't agree more, thanks for the clear explanation.

Thanks for telling me about it! I have the swedish volume for that case, and it's has so far been very accurate with its translation. Let's see what it says...
Yup, your case closed translation seems to be the more accurate one:
"I could even sense it on my sister before that incident..."

Which means, it only adds to my theory, since she has been around her sister since she was born. The fact that she could sense it from someone so out of the BO loop, but not assassin Numabuchi, just points to that there's another link between the people she could sense.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q
kentasaiba
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby kentasaiba » December 4th, 2016, 8:47 pm

I just remembered that Kogoro just got the betting slip from out of nowhere. Maybe Wakita secretly gave it him to lure him to the sushi-bar.
Image
MeiTanteixX
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Re: What's the identity of Rum?

Postby MeiTanteixX » December 5th, 2016, 4:11 am

kentasaiba wrote:I just remembered that Kogoro just got the betting slip from out of nowhere. Maybe Wakita secretly gave it him to lure him to the sushi-bar.

I don't think he would have chosen such a risky bet on "Pirate's Spirit" if it was only to lure Kogoro into the restaurant, since kogoro would need to win with that ticket for his plan to work.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''

DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gqku3dvoPhWaNIRUu0Q

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