My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
jimmy_kud0_tv2
User avatar
Posts: 736

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » July 20th, 2015, 2:28 pm

Uchiha Shadow wrote:
PirateKing wrote:I like this theory. Mostly because, there aren't any suggestions "within the manga" that say that it's not possible.

The only things that I can think of against this theory is that it's pointless for Gosho to create a phantom character for no obvious reason and that Akai and Mystery Girl seem to be interested in Shuukichi's final match. Neither are really strong arguments, IMO. It also fits with Akai wanting to keep Sera out of trouble by telling her that he's alive but not immediately reachable, and Sera suddenly giving up trying to find if Akai was alive or not. Let's see what the coming chapters have to say.

I disagree, the middle brother has to exist, and even though it's not absolute evidence, there are some arguments against the middle brother not existing. And there is a strong argument that Shuukichi is the middle brother, so in the end it makes more sense for that to be the case.



I haven't looked at this thread in 11 months, so some of the information above may not be accurate, but I still stand by my argument against Shuukichi that I will copy paste below.

""""Shuukichi was first introduced as a Shogi playing man who could memorize things very quickly, and was introduced three cases before the first mention of the Middle Brother. Why would you want to introduce a new character and then suddenly create an alternate persona for that character after the fact and not let the audience know the connection? (It made sense for Akai to become Okiya, but only after the audience was meant to think that he was dead). It would seem kind of silly to me to even make a secret Middle Brother and only introduce one person that it could be, and then it turns out that it is that person. (Therefore, I wanted to look elsewhere)

Why would Shogi be a tough enough job that he couldn't take a break to see her briefly? On top of that, how do you explain that Masumi never contacted him in any of the cases that she appeared in before the Adultery case? How would she suddenly have gotten in contact with him? If she had contact with him before the first time we see her call him, why is she suddenly self-conscious enough to ask him if she is right about her deduction in the case where she calls him, but didn't call him before? """"""""

I'd be willing to concede that Shuukichi is still on the list of possible suspects, because of Akai and Mystery Girl's knowledge of him, but that could still potentially turn out to be something else.

I probably won't be responding to this thread again until we get new information.
Last edited by jimmy_kud0_tv2 on July 20th, 2015, 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
ImageImage
Uchiha Shadow
User avatar
Posts: 295

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby Uchiha Shadow » July 21st, 2015, 6:56 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Uchiha Shadow wrote:
PirateKing wrote:I like this theory. Mostly because, there aren't any suggestions "within the manga" that say that it's not possible.

The only things that I can think of against this theory is that it's pointless for Gosho to create a phantom character for no obvious reason and that Akai and Mystery Girl seem to be interested in Shuukichi's final match. Neither are really strong arguments, IMO. It also fits with Akai wanting to keep Sera out of trouble by telling her that he's alive but not immediately reachable, and Sera suddenly giving up trying to find if Akai was alive or not. Let's see what the coming chapters have to say.

I disagree, the middle brother has to exist, and even though it's not absolute evidence, there are some arguments against the middle brother not existing. And there is a strong argument that Shuukichi is the middle brother, so in the end it makes more sense for that to be the case.



I haven't looked at this thread in 11 months, so some of the information above may not be accurate, but I still stand by my argument against Shuukichi that I will copy paste below.

""""Shuukichi was first introduced as a Shogi playing man who could memorize things very quickly, and was introduced three cases before the first mention of the Middle Brother. Why would you want to introduce a new character and then suddenly create an alternate persona for that character after the fact and not let the audience know the connection? (It made sense for Akai to become Okiya, but only after the audience was meant to think that he was dead). It would seem kind of silly to me to even make a secret Middle Brother and only introduce one person that it could be, and then it turns out that it is that person. (Therefore, I wanted to look elsewhere)


Not only is it a poor argument and shouldn't really be used, but it also actually makes more sense for the middle brother to have appeared before his mention, let's look at the facts, Sera was messaging her brother, she then mentioned a certain 'him' so he asked her who she's talking about, she sent him a picture of Conan, he then sent her a message that implied he knows Conan and trusts his abilities as a detective, Sera is confused and thus sends him a message(although that is unseen) asking him how he knows Conan, since it doesn't make sense for her brother to know Conan who doesn't really exist, he replies to her with a satisfying answer, now, if he told her "I know he is Shinichi" she would be more surprised and would still be confused about how he knew, but she was satisfied with his answer, which is most likely along the lines of: "I met him before on a certain case before", if we take it that way, then that means the middle brother met Conan before, that means the middle brother appeared before he was mentioned, you might say the whole thing is only my interruption and there is no evidence, but you can't deny that it makes more sense and is more likely than other scenarios, not only that, but if Shuukichi appeared after the middle brother was mentioned, that would've been very obvious(although it's already obvious), seeing a character who knows of Conan's intelligence even though he never met him before(from what we know) right after having Sera's middle brother who knows about Conan introduced would lead us to know for sure he is the middle brother, and Gosho wouldn't want that, besides, he appeared a second time after that, thus reminding the readers and watchers of the series that this character exists and is a possible candidate for the middle brother's identity.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Why would Shogi be a tough enough job that he couldn't take a break to see her briefly? On top of that, how do you explain that Masumi never contacted him in any of the cases that she appeared in before the Adultery case? How would she suddenly have gotten in contact with him? If she had contact with him before the first time we see her call him, why is she suddenly self-conscious enough to ask him if she is right about her deduction in the case where she calls him, but didn't call him before? """"""""


Both are also not strong arguments, he also didn't contact Yumi, it doesn't matter how you view Shogi, to Shuukichi Shogi is very important, if it's important enough to him that he didn't contact his girlfriend to the point where she dumped him, then it's also important enough to him that he doesn't see his Sister. As for the other argument, that's not even fair, it's Gosho who controls these things, he wanted to introduce the middle brother at that point so he did, besides, he might've talked to her back in the Detectives' Nocturne case, although that might've been unknown child, we don't know for sure, and we don't know that Sera didn't asked for the middle brother's advice before in previous cases, she might've done it off-screen.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:I'd be willing to concede that Shuukichi is still on the list of possible suspects, because of Akai and Mystery Girl's knowledge of him, but that could still potentially turn out to be something else.


That by itself is not a strong argument that Shuukichi is the middle brother, but when added to all the other arguments, it's hard to deny it, again, I'll post all the hints about the middle brother being Shuukichi:

1) He doesn't look like Sera/Akai as he is supposed to look like their father.

2) He is 28, the perfect age for the middle brother since his classmates from high-school are all 27-29.

3) His skin color matches the skin color that the middle brother has.

4) His name is very similar to Shuichi, in Japan they sometimes name children by similar names.

5) He is very smart, smart enough for Sera to put him as smarter than Shuichi.

6) He trusted Conan from the first case even though he never met him before(as Conan).

7) The middle brother knows about Shinichi since the Wizard is most likely Shinichi, and the middle brother asked Sera about him, since Shukichi's memory is very good, he would remember child Shinichi's face and know that he is Conan, thus he would know about how smart he is even though he just met him.

8) The middle brother also knew of Conan, that fits with Shukichi because he just met Conan a few cases before he messaged Sera about him.

9) And when he won the Shogi tournament, Shuichi seemed happy as he smiled when he read the news, and the unknown child was also very happy in an unusual way after watching the match.

10) Finally, Gosho said in the Animal Crossing Game: "Sera calls Kichi-nii" Haneda's name is Shuukichi, since Sera already calls Shuichi "Shu-nii" she has to call Shuukhichi something else, which is "Kichi-nii".

While some people say that he can't be the middle brother because he is famous and Sera should know about his whereabouts, the thing is though, Yumi, of all people didn't know that he was a famous Shogi player, despite dating him, and the detective boys including Haibara didn't realize he was the Taiko Meijin until they looked carefully at the video, besides Sera probably isn't into Shogi so she probably doesn't know the Taiko Meijin(which is also why Yumi couldn't figure out that he's the Taiko Meijin).
jimmy_kud0_tv2
User avatar
Posts: 736

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby jimmy_kud0_tv2 » July 21st, 2015, 2:02 pm

Uchiha Shadow wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Uchiha Shadow wrote:I disagree, the middle brother has to exist, and even though it's not absolute evidence, there are some arguments against the middle brother not existing. And there is a strong argument that Shuukichi is the middle brother, so in the end it makes more sense for that to be the case.

I haven't looked at this thread in 11 months, so some of the information above may not be accurate, but I still stand by my argument against Shuukichi that I will copy paste below.
""""Shuukichi was first introduced as a Shogi playing man who could memorize things very quickly, and was introduced three cases before the first mention of the Middle Brother. Why would you want to introduce a new character and then suddenly create an alternate persona for that character after the fact and not let the audience know the connection? (It made sense for Akai to become Okiya, but only after the audience was meant to think that he was dead). It would seem kind of silly to me to even make a secret Middle Brother and only introduce one person that it could be, and then it turns out that it is that person. (Therefore, I wanted to look elsewhere)

Not only is it a poor argument and shouldn't really be used, but it also actually makes more sense for the middle brother to have appeared before his mention, let's look at the facts, Sera was messaging her brother, she then mentioned a certain 'him' so he asked her who she's talking about, she sent him a picture of Conan, he then sent her a message that implied he knows Conan and trusts his abilities as a detective, Sera is confused and thus sends him a message(although that is unseen) asking him how he knows Conan, since it doesn't make sense for her brother to know Conan who doesn't really exist, he replies to her with a satisfying answer, now, if he told her "I know he is Shinichi" she would be more surprised and would still be confused about how he knew, but she was satisfied with his answer, which is most likely along the lines of: "I met him before on a certain case before", if we take it that way, then that means the middle brother met Conan before, that means the middle brother appeared before he was mentioned, you might say the whole thing is only my interruption and there is no evidence, but you can't deny that it makes more sense and is more likely than other scenarios, not only that, but if Shuukichi appeared after the middle brother was mentioned, that would've been very obvious(although it's already obvious), seeing a character who knows of Conan's intelligence even though he never met him before(from what we know) right after having Sera's middle brother who knows about Conan introduced would lead us to know for sure he is the middle brother, and Gosho wouldn't want that, besides, he appeared a second time after that, thus reminding the readers and watchers of the series that this character exists and is a possible candidate for the middle brother's identity.


I know I said that I would not be responding to this thread again, but I want to point out that you saying that """but if Shuukichi appeared after the middle brother was mentioned, that would've been very obvious(although it's already obvious)""" is literally like saying that it would be obvious that Shuukichi is the middle brother whether or not he appeared before or after. This literally begs me to repeat my questions. Why make a mysterious identity if you are only going to have one person that it could possibly be and make it that person? Why make a mystery out of something that, as you say, is so incredibly obvious?

your statement that Masumi would have reacted more to the response "I know that he is Shinichi" is irrelevant because no one ever said that that is what they think happened. The person who I stated that I think is the middle brother in my original post would not say anything like that because no one in this series ever says anything as direct as that until after it becomes a major problem to not know.


Uchiha Shadow wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Why would Shogi be a tough enough job that he couldn't take a break to see her briefly? On top of that, how do you explain that Masumi never contacted him in any of the cases that she appeared in before the Adultery case? How would she suddenly have gotten in contact with him? If she had contact with him before the first time we see her call him, why is she suddenly self-conscious enough to ask him if she is right about her deduction in the case where she calls him, but didn't call him before? """"""""

Both are also not strong arguments, he also didn't contact Yumi, it doesn't matter how you view Shogi, to Shuukichi Shogi is very important, if it's important enough to him that he didn't contact his girlfriend to the point where she dumped him, then it's also important enough to him that he doesn't see his Sister. As for the other argument, that's not even fair, it's Gosho who controls these things, he wanted to introduce the middle brother at that point so he did, besides, he might've talked to her back in the Detectives' Nocturne case, although that might've been unknown child, we don't know for sure, and we don't know that Sera didn't asked for the middle brother's advice before in previous cases, she might've done it off-screen.


What you have quoted here, from me, is not meant to be an argument, its meant to be questions that I am seeking answers for that have not been answered in series. So saying that it is "not a strong argument" is kind of pointless.

Shuukichi not contacting Yumi for awhile, while trying to put something together that he thinks will impress her is one thing..... but if Shuukichi was the middle brother and he actually answered Masumi's calls to solve someone else's murder investigation, proving that he has spare time, but not taking the time to see his sister in person for even a few minutes, or giving her shelter when she asked makes him seem like a bad person. This is an argument, although a week one, but still true.

Have you read the very first post in its entirety? Because I'm pretty sure I explained who I thought the middle brother was, and how it could possibly fit all of the things mentioned so far in the manga (up to the point that I posted it, one year ago). It may be weak, but there is nothing so far that actually says that its impossible.
I hope that I can find someway to contribute to the community even if it's just random crack theories and looking things up for people who can't find the information they need.
ImageImage
Uchiha Shadow
User avatar
Posts: 295

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby Uchiha Shadow » July 24th, 2015, 10:37 am

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Uchiha Shadow wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Uchiha Shadow wrote:I disagree, the middle brother has to exist, and even though it's not absolute evidence, there are some arguments against the middle brother not existing. And there is a strong argument that Shuukichi is the middle brother, so in the end it makes more sense for that to be the case.

I haven't looked at this thread in 11 months, so some of the information above may not be accurate, but I still stand by my argument against Shuukichi that I will copy paste below.
""""Shuukichi was first introduced as a Shogi playing man who could memorize things very quickly, and was introduced three cases before the first mention of the Middle Brother. Why would you want to introduce a new character and then suddenly create an alternate persona for that character after the fact and not let the audience know the connection? (It made sense for Akai to become Okiya, but only after the audience was meant to think that he was dead). It would seem kind of silly to me to even make a secret Middle Brother and only introduce one person that it could be, and then it turns out that it is that person. (Therefore, I wanted to look elsewhere)

Not only is it a poor argument and shouldn't really be used, but it also actually makes more sense for the middle brother to have appeared before his mention, let's look at the facts, Sera was messaging her brother, she then mentioned a certain 'him' so he asked her who she's talking about, she sent him a picture of Conan, he then sent her a message that implied he knows Conan and trusts his abilities as a detective, Sera is confused and thus sends him a message(although that is unseen) asking him how he knows Conan, since it doesn't make sense for her brother to know Conan who doesn't really exist, he replies to her with a satisfying answer, now, if he told her "I know he is Shinichi" she would be more surprised and would still be confused about how he knew, but she was satisfied with his answer, which is most likely along the lines of: "I met him before on a certain case before", if we take it that way, then that means the middle brother met Conan before, that means the middle brother appeared before he was mentioned, you might say the whole thing is only my interruption and there is no evidence, but you can't deny that it makes more sense and is more likely than other scenarios, not only that, but if Shuukichi appeared after the middle brother was mentioned, that would've been very obvious(although it's already obvious), seeing a character who knows of Conan's intelligence even though he never met him before(from what we know) right after having Sera's middle brother who knows about Conan introduced would lead us to know for sure he is the middle brother, and Gosho wouldn't want that, besides, he appeared a second time after that, thus reminding the readers and watchers of the series that this character exists and is a possible candidate for the middle brother's identity.


I know I said that I would not be responding to this thread again, but I want to point out that you saying that """but if Shuukichi appeared after the middle brother was mentioned, that would've been very obvious(although it's already obvious)""" is literally like saying that it would be obvious that Shuukichi is the middle brother whether or not he appeared before or after. This literally begs me to repeat my questions. Why make a mysterious identity if you are only going to have one person that it could possibly be and make it that person? Why make a mystery out of something that, as you say, is so incredibly obvious?

your statement that Masumi would have reacted more to the response "I know that he is Shinichi" is irrelevant because no one ever said that that is what they think happened. The person who I stated that I think is the middle brother in my original post would not say anything like that because no one in this series ever says anything as direct as that until after it becomes a major problem to not know.


I guess I didn't phrase it the right way, what I meant was that it would've been very obvious although it's already obvious to me, what I meant was that if he was introduced after the middle brother was mentioned, it would be just like stating that he is the middle brother, while when he appears before, people might not see the connection, besides, the argument your using doesn't really have anything to do with the manga, it's just what Gosho wants to do, you can't use that as an argument really.

And yes I read your first post, I never got convinced with the whole Shuichi is acting as the middle brother or something like that, I can go on and give arguments why I think it doesn't make any sense, but it would be pointless, and I also don't feel like continuing this discussion, so I guess we should continue it whenever there is another development around this plot.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:
Uchiha Shadow wrote:
jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Why would Shogi be a tough enough job that he couldn't take a break to see her briefly? On top of that, how do you explain that Masumi never contacted him in any of the cases that she appeared in before the Adultery case? How would she suddenly have gotten in contact with him? If she had contact with him before the first time we see her call him, why is she suddenly self-conscious enough to ask him if she is right about her deduction in the case where she calls him, but didn't call him before? """"""""

Both are also not strong arguments, he also didn't contact Yumi, it doesn't matter how you view Shogi, to Shuukichi Shogi is very important, if it's important enough to him that he didn't contact his girlfriend to the point where she dumped him, then it's also important enough to him that he doesn't see his Sister. As for the other argument, that's not even fair, it's Gosho who controls these things, he wanted to introduce the middle brother at that point so he did, besides, he might've talked to her back in the Detectives' Nocturne case, although that might've been unknown child, we don't know for sure, and we don't know that Sera didn't asked for the middle brother's advice before in previous cases, she might've done it off-screen.


What you have quoted here, from me, is not meant to be an argument, its meant to be questions that I am seeking answers for that have not been answered in series. So saying that it is "not a strong argument" is kind of pointless.

Shuukichi not contacting Yumi for awhile, while trying to put something together that he thinks will impress her is one thing..... but if Shuukichi was the middle brother and he actually answered Masumi's calls to solve someone else's murder investigation, proving that he has spare time, but not taking the time to see his sister in person for even a few minutes, or giving her shelter when she asked makes him seem like a bad person. This is an argument, although a week one, but still true.


Ok, first off, my bad, I thought that you were using it as an argument that Shuukichi can't be the middle brother, as for the Shuukichi being a bad person thing, Yumi said that he is very childish so that might be why he doesn't want Masumi to live with him or not tell her about his whereabouts, it's not like we know anything about the middle brother's personality that makes Shuukichi being a bad person an argument against him being the middle brother.
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1470

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 12th, 2015, 7:14 pm

Here's my take on this—it could go either way; either Shukichi is the middle brother, or Masumi's actually been in contact with Shuichi/Subaru and pretended to have a second brother to hide that fact. I don't think there's really any other outcome to this mystery, bar the introduction of a new character that turns out to be the middle brother.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Saying that her brother is dead and "there is no way that could be possible" could be another lie. She saw Vermouth on the train dressed as Shuuichi and called out "Shuu nii, but how, I heard you were dead" and so soon after during the Blush Mermaid case she is saying that he is definitely dead? How can she be sure so quickly after seeing the "Scar Akai" and not being able to verify with Ran who that person in black really is??? I believe that her quick change is simply that she got a note or at the very least, a slip of paper with a phone number on it. She may be asking Ran about the person she saw to see if Ran knew any thing about that person being on the train. She could easily be lying by saying that her older brother is dead and be doing so in front of Conan so that he doesn't know that she has made contact with Shuuichi, the person on the train who borrowed the hat.


EDIT (8/13/15; in response to Serinox's correction):
Certainly possible. There seems to be no other purpose to this than tricking Shinichi/Conan, though...

Original:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Certainly possible. There seems to be no other purpose to this than tricking Shinichi/Conan, though... then again, he did pretty much the same thing to Shuichi/Subaru with the whole "Kinichi" business, so...


You'd think we would've seen this slip of paper in File 824/Episode 704—not it's contents, obviously, but the fact of its existence. The fact that it wasn't shown, though, means Gosho either hid it from us, and will reveal it in a flashback, or there simply isn't one. This would've been a vital clue as to the middle brother's identity for the readers, if he was Shuichi/Subaru, and yet the idea of it is purely theoretical.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Interestingly enough we only know Shuuichi to wear knit caps, Bourbon's Scar Akai wore a ball cap with a front brim, and Vermouth's Scar Akai wore the hat with the brim that goes all the way around. If Masumi wears a hat with a brim that goes all the way around to copy her older brother, and Vermouth is "the only one who could completely immerse herself in the role" then of course she would find the right type of hat. Although this does bring up something else, just how long has Vermouth known Shuuichi? OR how far into his past did she have to dig to find that he wore that type of hat when we have never seen him wear one even in flashbacks up until that point?


I think that Rei/Tooru is the one who let her know—he and Masumi still haven't met, and his reaction to her in File 800/Episode 674 has yet to be explained, but Vermouth wouldn't need to know so much about Shuichi's past and his family to impersonate him—the reason she was exposed as Ariade was because of information she lacked, not because of a defect in her performance. And she only needed to shock Masumi for a few seconds to give her the opportunity to knock her out—she didn't need to give some long-train of facts when he goal was to make sure that Shuichi was dead by testing her reaction. Rei's/Tooru's connection to Masumi still needs to be explained, but it's likely that he had some encounter with her, years prior, and was curious as to why he'd crossed paths with Shuichi's sister as he was investigating his death. This prompted him to tell Vermouth about it, and she could've already known or not known, either way, and asked her to test her reaction to seeing her apparently dead brother.

Shuichi was still wearing his knitted cap five years before Clash of Red and Black, and given his likely age range being from mid-late twenties to early thirties, it's safe to assume the fedora was his preferred head garb during school years (high school, university/college). Given that Masumi is 10-15 years younger than Shuichi, she remembers the fedora more than the knitted cap, even if he started wearing it when she was in elementary school, which was likely when they last saw each other.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Its understandable that the middle brother would not be introduced as a phone call in Blush Mermaid because Masumi was still wondering about the hat and adding the middle brother in to somehow solve Kaito Kids trick would have been a bit much considering that Gosho has said that Kaito Kid will not be involved with the plot much anymore.


He could've added in a phone call from the middle brother after the case had concluded, but Gosho chose to wait another 26-28 files, instead. Only he knows why he did that.

Gosho said Kid might not be involved in the final confrontation with the Organization.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Why she didn't contact him in the Fruits case with multiple pad locks on the same box? How to get a person inside a box that had been locked with multiple padlocks by different people would have been a perfect puzzle for a person who likes puzzles to solve! However that case focused on Masumi herself. It showed us that she had a tooth that comes out when she smiles, that Conan/Shinichi recognizes her in someway, and that Ran thinks of waves in some context to magic when she sees Masumi's back when she is running away. On top of that Masumi says the line "This is our territory/area" to Ran right after the dead body appears. Still that would have been a great case to call him for if she had contact. (Shuukichi was introduced in the case directly after that one, however the only person who has talked to both Masumi and Shuukichi and would be able to pass on contact info is Conan...).

The first known contact that we have seen is the one witnessed by Eri in the hotel lobby several hours before the Adultery case begins. Its very possible (although not proven) that this could be the first time she talked to the middle brother. If it was, it would explain why she said the person's name and "nii" loud enough to be heard by Eri. Masumi then calls the middle brother back later once the Adultery case begins to see if her theory is correct. Its really frustrating to think that if this middle brother existed, why she didn't call him before now. If it is simply that she didn't have contact with him at the previous cases then how did she get in contact with him? For the people who say that the middle brother is Shuukichi, how would she get his contact information (by c865), and suddenly not know his whereabouts (c869)? (as well as still not know that he plays Shogi(c902)). This lead me back to other characters that have come into contact with Masumi for the first time in really recent history, Subaru (Yusaku's cold case and Mystery train), Kaitou Kid (Blush Mermaid), and the actor Kanzaki who plays Detective Samonji (Fruits case). All three of these people know Conan and have seen him in action solving cases. However Masumi does not recognize Kanzaki until Conan mentions that he plays Samonji to which she says "oh that funny detective?". Kaito Kid has been said to not be involved in the plot any more, they did not recognize each other in the Blush Mermaid case and it just seems really unlikely. That leaves Subaru/Shuu. On top of that, the person who is talking to Masumi as the middle brother is using the exact same "oh, I'm away on a tough case and can't let my whereabouts be known" that Conan always uses when he pretends to be Shinichi on the phone. Most recently this was witnessed by Subaru/Shuu during Yusaku's Cold Case. It would be really easy for Subaru/Shuu to go out to buy a second cell phone and mimic the same trick by slipping Masumi a piece of paper with the phone number during the Mystery Train when she was unconscious. In this way she would have the phone number and still not know her brother's whereabouts. It still frustrates the heck out of me that she still didn't contact anyone during the Fruits case. If she had even hinted at contacting anyone during that case it would put this to rest, however for now it seems like the most likely time she first got into contact with him was in the hours before the Adultery case began.


The first time Masumi is talking with her second brother that we see is Steamy Relations/Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed As Well (Files 856–858/Episodes 740–741). We have no idea if she contacted him before her initial appearance in File 768/Episode 646, or during the periods in between her appearances—the same goes for her meeting him in person. As for the cases, themselves, which she had the chance to solve/help solve (Jeet Kune Do/Deduction Showdown at the Haunted Hotel, Bomber's Request/The Case of the Besieged Detective Agency, East Vs. West/Conan Vs. Heiji – Deduction Battle Between the Detectives of the East and West, Cold Case/Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case, Cabin Trap/The Shadow Approaching Haibara's Secret, Our Territory/The Treasure Chest Filled with Fruits) she clearly felt confident enough not to contact her second brother, given that not only was Shinichi/Conan there, but Heiji and Subaru were at other cases, as well. Steamy Relations/Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed As Well is the first time she deduced incorrectly—Jeet Kune Do/Deduction Showdown at the Haunted Hotel had an intentionally incorrect deduction on her part. The fact that she called her second brother shows that she was unsure enough to actually do so.

As for why she has no idea where her second brother is, it could be that even if they met, he would deflect her attempts to find out. If her words are to be doubted, then perhaps she does know where she is, but is hiding him from Shinichi/Conan, waiting for "when the time comes," as she puts it, in File 846/Episode 728 (and this could be the case for either Shukichi or Shuichi/Subaru being the second brother).

Shuichi/Subaru probably didn't think up the idea on the spot when he found out Shinichi's/Conan's secret, if he is the second brother, but decided after what happened on the Bell Tree Express to have her in the loop on some things, given what she wound up in the middle of. Also, would the same thing you said about how she should've contacted the middle brother during Our Territory/The Treasure Chest Filled with Fruits apply if Shuichi/Subaru was the middle brother?

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Interestingly enough after re-reading the chapters (872–875) it seems it was never stated that they were actually classmates, just that they were all "friends". Even though it seems they were told that their friend's sister was coming, they don't seem to recognize her at all and they never even mention an eldest brother. It is mentioned that during high school that the people present in the case were a part of the "outdoor club" for the summer holidays, and say that the club was just the five of them meaning that "Sera-kun" was not a part of the club (Satoko, the fifth member, was murdered 12 years ago near this same villa during a school holiday).

Over all the Eldest Brother is described as three times stronger than Masumi and is the one that sent her the Jeet Kune Do tapes that she watched many times as a kid. The Middle Brother is described as intelligent and one who likes to solve "mysteries and puzzles". Shuuichi, as Subaru, has demonstrated he is very intelligent and calls himself a Sherlockian. He also says he likes to solve "puzzles". If he and the Middle Brother are different people, the the Middle Brother's intelligence must be much higher than that?


How is the fact that they weren't classmates interesting? Or that they weren't part of the same club? If they were friends, then they'd know what he'd look like, and that's all that should matter, right? Or am I missing something you're not missing?

Why would the classmates feel the need to mention the other brother? If they knew so little about Masumi, wouldn't the same apply to Shuichi, if he's the oldest brother? There was simply not enough info provided on that. If Shuichi is Masumi's only brother, and that there is no middle brother, then that would mean the number of surnames Shuichi had throughout the series would increase to four—and why would his name be changed for only a certain period of time? He's never referred to as Shuichi Sera—he's always been referred to as Shuichi Akai. I don't have a problem with him turning out to have been called Shuichi Sera, but if he is the middle brother, then that's what this means.

If Shukichi turns out to be the middle brother, then he'll have to play a role in the plot—with his quest complete, he's now free to help his siblings and their mother (If she is the mysterious child). If the Akai family is like the Holmes family, then Shuichi is Sherlock and Shukichi is Mycroft—one out catching criminals, the other engaging in less serious activities.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Questions: If Shuukichi is the Middle Brother, then...

Shuukichi was first introduced as a Shogi playing man who could memorize things very quickly, and was introduced three cases before the first mention of the Middle Brother. Why would you want to introduce a new character and then suddenly create an alternate persona for that character after the fact and not let the audience know? It would seem kind of silly to me to even make a secret Middle Brother and only introduce one person that it could be, and then it turns out that it is that person.


But hasn't pretty much everyone speculated about him being the middle brother, at this point? Hasn't everyone caught onto how easily he could be the middle brother? For you, this must too obvious to be true—thus, it must be a red herring. But isn't that another trick? Get people thinking its a red herring when it actually isn't? Could it be that it's too obvious not to be true?

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Shuukichi was already playing Shogi at a tournament level at a point "10 years ago", at this time Masumi would have been at least 6-7 and would most likely remember that he was such a good Shogi player. Even with Shuukichi having gone off to college and being separate from the family, he still would have graduated some time before Masumi left from japan "3 years ago". If Shuukichi was the Middle Brother, then Masumi would definitely know that he is fond of Shogi. Why did she then describe him as liking "puzzles" rather than liking "Shogi"? Why would Masumi not know his whereabouts? If she wanted to see him, she would most likely just go to Shogi tournaments and hang around. From Masumi's point of view, even if her brother was not going to tournaments anymore there is a chance he would still watch them on tv and possibly see her in the background, so it would be worth it. Why isn't she shown even attempting this? From Shuukichi's point of view, why would he want his whereabouts unknown if all he was doing is playing Shogi? Why would Shogi be a tough enough job that he couldn't take a break to see her briefly? On top of that, how do you explain that Masumi never contacted him in any of the cases that she appeared in before the Adultery case? How would she suddenly have gotten in contact with him? If she had contact with him before the first time we see her call him, why is she suddenly self-conscious enough to ask him if she is right about her deduction in the case where she calls him, but didn't call him before?


Would she? Given how into martial arts and practical work Shuichi and Masumi are, maybe Shukichi was embarrassed not to be—if he is the middle brother, his personality sticks out like a sore thumb. Perhaps Shuichi had to figure that out on his own—that his brother was hiding it—and maybe Masumi still has no idea. Again, we have no idea if she contacted him in between the cases she appeared at, or even before she appeared. Remember—her deduction was wrong, and it wasn't an intentional screw up. As with before, Shinichi/Conan was there, and so was that reassurance, but beside that, she was unsure about the trick the culprit used in Steamy Relations/Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed As Well—enough to get another perspective.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:For the most part we assume that Masumi and her mother left Japan due to something involving Shuuichi while he was inside the BO. Shuuichi entered the BO "5 years ago" and they left Japan "3 years ago" and Shuuichi left the BO "2 years ago". If Masumi and her mother were evacuated from Japan due to fear of the BO, why did the Middle Brother not go with them? You can say that if he is Shuukichi that he has the reason of the Shogi titles to stay in Japan, but wouldn't life or death situations trump titles that he could earn at any time in his life? If Shuuichi still had the family name Akai, and by this time they still feared that Masumi and the mother, who have the family name Sera would still be found by the BO, why would the Middle Brother having a third family name even protect him? He allows himself to be put on tv and in internet articles. He doesn't seem like he is hiding from anyone.


But clearly, the BO hasn't gone after him—who knows how long it took him to achieve the amount of fame he currently possesses? We don't know why Masumi left Japan a year before Shuichi was exposed as an FBI mole inside the BO—wouldn't the FBI have hid her at the very time Shuichi began infiltrating the BO, if they were so concerned? Is she lying about when she was in America?

I agree that its important to consider these things, though—there could very well be a reason behind Gosho giving us the information about when Masumi left Japan. With the theory of Shuichi/Subaru being the middle brother, Shukichi having nothing happen to him while Shuichi was in the BO would make sense.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Masumi's description of the Middle Brother is very vague. She says that she and her Eldest brother resemble their mother, but that the Middle Brother resembles their father, who is dead. Because we still have the potential of meeting the mother of the family, we would see the resemblance between Masumi, Shuuichi, and the mother pretty clearly. The father however is dead, and the Middle Brother looks like him more than the other three. At this point all we know about his appearance is that he does not look like his other three family members. Combining that with having a different family name, you could almost pull a random person off the street and have them fill in for the Middle Brother as long as the age is correct. On top of this, Shuukichi's current family name matches the same "Haneda" kanji as someone from the APTX victims list. Wouldn't it be far more likely that he is related to that person rather than having to be the Middle Brother and just happening to change his family name to that around the time he graduated High school?


If the mysterious child is Shuichi's and Masumi's mother, then the eyes are an obvious connection—their eyes are pretty much the most distinctive in the entire series. Shukichi must have eyes and hair/hair color that resembles the father, if he is the second son—he already bares quite the resemblance to Shuichi, in terms of facial structure. He and the mysterious child's skin color are fairly close, while Shuichi and Masumi have a very similar skin color—maybe the latter two have that in common with their father (and that's irrespective of the middle brother, by the way).

The APTX victims list is from Volume 18, File 179/Episode 129—the very beginning of the Haibara arc (Files 176–237/Episodes 129–175). It could easily be a coincidence—Shuichi was not introduced until Volume 29, File 287/Episode 230. And this is ignoring the fact that there are plenty of unrelated people who share surnames—as of 2014, the surname Haneda belonged to 11,184 people in Japan.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:At the end of the recent Shogi tournament case we see the Mystery Girl and Shuuichi smiling. Since the Mystery girl had the tv on the station giving coverage of the tournament earlier in the case, it is assumed that she was still watching it when she turned the tv off at the end. Shuuichi is shown definitely reading an article about the Shogi tournament and the winner of the seven titles. So many people made the immediate jump from "Oh my god, they smiled at Shuukichi's achievement" to "Oh my god, they are all blood-related/family members". We still do not know that the Mystery Girl is the mother of the family, we only know that she talks like an adult and has the same black outline of the eye that Masumi does. How do you make this big leap? Why would Gosho let a simple smile confirm the identity of two characters that are supposed to be a mystery??


The thing about people comparing the mysterious child's and Shuichi's/Subaru's reaction to Shukichi's victory in File 902/Episode 786 to Shuichi/Subaru drinking Bourbon in File 640/Episode 511 is this—it's not the same. Shukichi is suspected of being the middle brother. Shuichi/Subaru was suspected of being Bourbon, and unwisely so simply because he was drinking Bourbon—as we later found out, it was one of his favorite drinks, and him drinking it while searching for Bourbon was a nice touch. Had he been drinking Sherry, though...

It's very possible that Shuichi/Subaru and the mysterious child are simply fans of Shukichi. With Shiho/Ai going all hardcore fangirl in the most recent case when she thought Ryusuke was dating Yoko, it proved that even the most serious, snarky characters can have an OOC moment like she did—that could be the case with the mysterious girl's reaction creeping Masumi out. Even so, for Shuichi/Subaru to give a genuine smile at a shogi player he'd never met, even if he was only the second person in history to claim all seven shogi titles... the whole thing about Shuichi/Subaru, when he was introduced, was that he was thought to be Bourbon—Shukichi's not suspicious. The odds of him being Rum, even with the little information we have on that subject, are very low.

The Mysterious Child can't be the middle brother, unless Gosho reveals that he's been pulling quite the trick on his sister. With her being voiced by the Major from Ghost in the Shell, as well—it seems quite fitting for that to be the voice of a character who's the mother of Shuichi Akai, at least to me. People make this leap because two of the most serious characters in the series are pretty happy at the result of a Shogi match, of all things—am I convinced, utterly and completely, that Shukichi is the middle brother and the mysterious child is his, Shuichi's/Subaru's and Masumi's mother? No—it's just too early. Where things stand, right now, that's the way it looks... but for a conclusive, unshakable theory to be formed exclusively from this? I'm certainly not going to.

jimmy_kud0_tv2 wrote:Remember that the Bourbon arc started off with just the mention of Bourbon and only having Subaru as a suspect for a really long time drinking Bourbon in the Kudou house before Masumi and Amuro were actually introduced (14 volumes / 142 episodes later).


There were two theories for who Subaru Okiya really was, from File 622 to File 824—either he was Bourbon, and Shinichi/Conan was using Shiho/Ai as bait to try to get at the Organization, or he was actually Shuichi, who'd faked his death in File 609.

For Shukichi Haneda, there are two theories, as well—either he is the middle brother, and is going to get involved in the main plot once this is revealed, or he's a Shogi player who happens to be Yumi's boyfriend, and happens to be very well liked by Shuichi/Subaru and his mother (if she is the mysterious child).

With the Bourbon and Vermouth arcs, there were the most obvious suspects for the titular character's identity—Subaru and Jodie. They turned out to be good guys—that was always the other possibility. For Shukichi, there's no such option for him to continue to be relevant—either he's the middle brother, or he's pretty much guaranteed to go the way of Ariade... and that's a waste. And didn't Gosho say that Shukichi would be an important character? I can't seem to find where he said that.

If Shuichi/Subaru is the middle brother, then I'd say were due some interaction between him and Masumi and even the mysterious child. This mystery has been around since April 2013... it's been nearly two-and-a-half years. The mystery of who Bourbon was took four-and-a-half years to be revealed, so hopefully between now and mid-2017 we'll get some answers. It's been nearly 30 files since Shukichi and the mysterious child appeared—maybe we'll get back on track with that, come next Monday.

Finally—the two animal crossing hints. Animal Crossing is either used for spreading factual information, or, less frequently, for Sherry's Soliloquy-esque comments and a joke, here and there. Here are posts with the latter, in my opinion, at least:

2014 February
Now that I think about it, I wonder how old Higo-san is...

2014 November
Don't die, Kan-chan...
Kuroda-keiji... is very scary.

2015 February
OK, I will tell you about the Boss... NOT!!! (laugh)

The rest are very fact based, and among them:

2014 August
Sera-chan calls Kichi-nii

2015 March
It's 'Kichi-nii'!

I've heard that these aren't being serious, but with him using Animal Crossing to put facts about his work out there... we would not have known that Rum had already appeared before File 906 if not for Animal Crossing. He's never used Animal Crossing to trick us/lie to us, so there's no reason to think he'd start now, and just for this one thing... and its not even a comment like "OK, I will tell you about the middle brother... NOT!!!" Who else could "Kichi-nii" be but Shukichi? Is there really another explanation for this?

I hope I've come off as reasonable and unoffensive in this post, but this is text and we're on the internet, so I apologize if I sounded rude... I'm trying to make sure, because as they say, better safe than sorry.

Addition (8/17/15):

Another question to be answered is who was Masumi called by in File 800/Episode 674 (and this goes for Shuichi/Subaru, as well, though it was likely James Black—that earpiece of Shuichi's/Subaru's in Online Client/Detectives' Nocturne is the same one, I think, as the one he uses to contact James in Dimensional Sniper. Movies aren't canon, I know, but that movie spoiled the manga before the manga revealed that Shuichi was Subaru, and revealed that James knew that Shuichi had faked his death, hence him sending Shuichi/Subaru a sniper rifle. None of the other 18 movies have been so spoilery.)

It couldn't have been Shuichi/Subaru, as he was receiving a call of his own from his earpiece, at the time, so that leaves either the mysterious child or the middle brother. We've never seen Masumi contact the mysterious child by phone—just like we haven't seen Masumi contact her middle brother before Steamy Relations/Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed As Well. If it was the middle brother, then it's either Shukichi or a yet-to-be-introduced character.

Then there's the assumption that Shinichi/Conan is "the wizard" (or "the magician," as the crunchyroll sub interprets it). Doesn't that seem a bit obvious, too? And Shinichi/Conan is best at destroying illusions that "wizards" and "magicians" like Kaitou Kid seem to cast—he's not known to be one, himself. While Ran remembers a young Masumi likely asking a young Shinichi if he's a wizard/magician, we have no idea what his response was… and then there's her "I really am a bad girl…" comment while looking at Ran and Shinichi/Conan (File 814/Episode 691). She likely did something in response to something Shinichi said, and Ran called her out for it—could the wizard/magician be the mysterious girl, instead? If Shuichi/Subaru is the middle brother, and he's hiding himself from Masumi, how would he know about this encounter between his sister and Shinichi and Ran? Wouldn't he have recognized both Shinichi and Ran, before meeting them?

Also, the middle brother's classmates seem to think, in my opinion, that either Ran or Sonoko is the middle brother's sister and that Masumi is their boyfriend (it could be that they thought the sister wasn't even there, though). Thus, they've never seen her. If Shuichi/Subaru was the middle brother, you'd think they'd notice the resemblance between him and Masumi, even if they thought she was a boy, and ask if she's a brother of his that he (the middle brother) never mentioned. But they don't make this connection, and if they assumed that Ran or Sonoko was the sister, then they were likely basing that off of the middle brother's appearance—Shukichi has a similar skin color as Ran and Sonoko. For example, if Mitsuhiko's sister was introduced without us being told she was, would we assume she was? She looks different enough for us not to assume so. (EDIT (8/18/15): I just looked at his sister, and realized that this is a bad example; please disregard it.) Plenty of siblings could pass as unrelated to each other (Masumi and Shukichi)—it's not a stretch to say the reverse applies, as well (Shukichi and Ran or Sonoko). Even if they didn't assume that Ran or Sonoko was the sister, they still didn't take notice of Mausmi's resemblance to Shuichi and ask about it—you'd think they would've done so, if Shuichi was their classmate (the middle brother).

If Masumi doesn't know about the Black Organization, then who's to say the same wouldn't apply to Shukichi, if he was the second brother? He doesn't seem to have spent time in America (as far as we know), and there really is no reason he should know, if Shuichi didn't inform him of what he was up to. Yukiko has helped Shinichi/Conan twice, and Yusaku once, but no more than that—say what you will about them as parents, but they really are leaving this up to him, even with the knowledge of what he's facing. This could be a similar scenario, if Shukichi does know—whether he knows or not, though, he's pursued his own goal and lived his own life for ten years, and very likely before that. Given Shuichi's/Subaru's reaction to Shukichi's victory, he doesn't seemed miffed by the fact that Shukichi went off and pursued this. If the mysterious child is the mother, then the same goes for her—neither of them are furious, angry or even annoyed that Shukichi is off playing Shogi (you could say this is proof that Shukichi isn't the middle brother, though, and I'd accept that). There's no obligation for him—a civilian—to endanger his life by getting involved in the BO situation, even more so if he has no idea, and Shuichi would probably not let him help, if he wanted to… just like Shinichi/Conan with those tied to him. They both want to face the danger alone, so no one gets hurt but them.

As for the intellect, both Shukichi and Shinichi/Conan realized the meanings behind the clues left by Yumi's kidnapper at the same time—clearly, they were both able to make the same connections, showing that Shukichi's knowledge, at least then, was just as large as Shinichi's/Conan's. Before, in his debut, (Files 847–849/Episodes 731–732) it was Shukichi's clue that led to Shinichi/Conan solving the case, and Shukichi himself quickly realized that Shinichi/Conan had solved the case, before he'd even begun his demonstration of the truth behind the trick. Such intellect may have been either expressed in Shogi terminology or during a Shogi case, but the fact that he and Shinichi/Conan were going stride for stride and the fact that he recognized that Shinichi/Conan had solved the case means that his intellect, at the very least, can stay with Shinichi's/Conan's, and that he could recognize that a child he'd just met could solve a murder case on his own. Plus, whether he's the middle brother or not, he's still a Shogi player—either way, it wouldn't be odd for him to say things that relate to Shogi or make Shogi connections easily. Shogi would be his characteristic skill, as Masumi's and Shuichi's would be Jeet Kune Do, and Shuichi's would be sniping and driving. Even with each of their characteristics, though, they would all have intellects greater than that of many average persons.

One more thing—Shiho's/Ai's comment to Shukichi that "the real Taiko wasn't as strong as you." I don't think she was being snide/sarcastic, so Gosho must've put this in for a reason—since Shiho/Ai is Gosho's voice in the manga quite often, you'd have to wonder why he'd put that in if Shukichi was just a Shogi player with no connection to Shuichi/Subaru, the mysterious child (and then there's where she was from Files 768–846/Episodes 646–728—was she already in Japan? Was she staying with someone else before living with Masumi?), and Masumi, other than the former two being fans of his. Favorite drinks and athletes may have things in common, when it comes to people liking them, but they're not the same—a drink isn't a person, whether you've met the person or not.

Spoiler:
Hopefully, the subsequent case (Files 928–) will finaly begin to shed light on this mystery.


Just because Shukichi Haneda is a really cheerful Shogi player, isn't a stoic, cool, multi-skilled, physically, and mysterious character who isn't involved in the fight with the Black Organization doesn't mean he's a red herring by default… but the theory that he's not the middle brother is quite a reasonable one, with merit—either way, Gosho's left this mystery hanging for two-and-a-half years… while it took us four-and-a-half until the Bourbon mystery was solved, we didn't have to pieces to solve it until four years into the mystery. The middle brother mystery was a mystery introduced in the Bourbon arc that has lasted over a year, since the Rum arc began… it's yet another dangling plot thread. Unless Gosho introduces a new character that turns out to be the middle brother, then the result of this mystery is going to be obvious—Shukichi is the middle brother, or there is no middle brother and Masumi's ben in contact with Shuichi/Subaru.
Last edited by DCUniverseAficionado on August 18th, 2015, 12:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
Serinox
User avatar
Posts: 536

Contact:

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby Serinox » August 12th, 2015, 7:58 pm

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Certainly possible. There seems to be no other purpose to this than tricking Shinichi/Conan, though... then again, he did pretty much the same thing to Shuichi/Subaru with the whole "Kinichi" business, so...

I just wanted to point out, that the Kinichi stuff came from Ran - Conan only told her, that Shinichi didn't want Ran and Sonoko to talk too much about him with Okiya, this whole stuff with Kinichi and a different person was completely Ran's idea. Considering that Yukiko made the disguise for Akai, Conan doesn't have a reason for tricking Akai in regards to who lived in the house before anyways.
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1470

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 13th, 2015, 7:46 am

Serinox wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Certainly possible. There seems to be no other purpose to this than tricking Shinichi/Conan, though... then again, he did pretty much the same thing to Shuichi/Subaru with the whole "Kinichi" business, so...

I just wanted to point out, that the Kinichi stuff came from Ran - Conan only told her, that Shinichi didn't want Ran and Sonoko to talk too much about him with Okiya, this whole stuff with Kinichi and a different person was completely Ran's idea. Considering that Yukiko made the disguise for Akai, Conan doesn't have a reason for tricking Akai in regards to who lived in the house before anyways.


Ah, that's right. In that case, I'll change that part of my post.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
wrd
User avatar
Posts: 51

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby wrd » August 18th, 2015, 10:15 am

So I'm moving the discussion about Shuukichi from the AC hints topic to this one,

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:
wrd wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Plenty of people don't see why Gosho spent seven years on the Bourbon arc... why he dragged it on for so long.


Certainly you are aware that the two mysteries aren't comparable;

While I agree with you about the Bourbon arc having been dragged on for years despite of the obvious hints; we were at least presented with 3 suspects, which isn't the case with the "middle bro" mystery: we have a sufficient amount of hints pointed to one person, this is why I think it's about time for Gosho to clear up this point once and for all, and to get on with introducing Shuukichi's real important role in the plot (if there is one).

Unless Gosho is planning to present Shuukichi as a suspect of being RUM (which is completely irreasonable given the facts), or maybe he is planning to creat some other characters and present them as suspects of being the middle bro (and that doesn't seem to be fitting with the RUM arc, at least to me).


Shuichi/Subaru is a suspect, isn't he? That makes two, just like Jodie and Ariade during the Vermouth arc. Yes, this mystery isn't about a BO agent, yes, Shukichi isn't Rum, and yes, Gosho needs to address this. I can't imagine Shukichi not having a role in the plot if he is the middle brother—I think people are concerned because of the quality of the Bourbon arc, and since many of their cynical predictions have proved true, they see no reason in making more cynical predictions, given how predictable they see Gosho as, right now. He's developed this pattern of leaving mysteries to hang for years, while many people deduce—correctly—what the mystery is, in short order (Subaru=Shuichi, Masumi=Shuichi's sister, Rei/Tooru=Bourbon and even Rei/Tooru=PSB/PSIA mole, all shortly after each of their introductions).

The only way the middle brother mystery won't end with him being revealed to be Shukichi or Shuichi/Subaru is if new characters are introduced as suspects, and one turns out to be the middle brother.


Ok, I've got your point;

Concerning Shuukichi's role, from what I've seen so far, I'm afraid that he will go down the Eisuki road, and I've never liked the way Eisuki was handled, some character that was used to attain someone else true identity and allegiance (Hidemi) and then disappear (well, sure Gosho stated that he will comme back, but I don't think he will have that much of an impact on the plot). I mean it doesn't seem to me that Shuukichi will get a constant role in DC aside from being a way for Conan to attain MG true identity. I hope I'm assuming wrong.
Image
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1470

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 18th, 2015, 1:15 pm

wrd wrote:Concerning Shuukichi's role, from what I've seen so far, I'm afraid that he will go down the Eisuki road, and I've never liked the way Eisuki was handled, some character that was used to attain someone else true identity and allegiance (Hidemi) and then disappear (well, sure Gosho stated that he will comme back, but I don't think he will have that much of an impact on the plot). I mean it doesn't seem to me that Shuukichi will get a constant role in DC aside from being a way for Conan to attain MG true identity. I hope I'm assuming wrong.


Ah, Eisuke... I kept on mentioning Ariade as if he was the only example of a character that pretty much vanished after they played their part in an arc. Thanks for reminding me.

If Eisuke comes back, it may be a sign that Hidemi/Rena/Kir is about to die, but beyond that, I have no idea what his return will bring.

No one knows where the mysterious child was before she moved in with Masumi, which was likely in-between Mystery Train (Files 818–824/Episodes 701–704) and Steamy Relations/The Bathroom Where Ran Collapsed As Well (Files 856–858/Episodes 740–741). In the latter case, Masumi took a picture of Shinichi/Conan—in the Red Woman Murder Case/Tragedy of the Red Woman (Files 872–875/Episodes 754–756), Masumi shows Shinichi/Conan a picture of her and the mysterious child. It was as if the mysterious child came to live with Masumi between File 825 and File 855, found out about Shinichi/Conan, and asked for a picture of him. After seeing it, the mysterious child agreed to/decided to reveal herself to Shinichi/Conan... it was like a photo exchange. Then there's the whole "wizard/magician" problem—its either Shinichi/Conan or the mysterious child. It could very well be the former, but he's known for destroying illusions cast by those who call themselves wizards or magicians. Could it be that, when he, Ran and Masumi met, he made a comment about there being no such thing when she asked him if he was a wizard, and that led to a confrontation that ended with Ran calling Masumi a bad girl, hence the explanation for why Masumi was thinking about that in Cold Case/Yusaku Kudo's Cold Case (Files 812–814/Episodes 690–691). If the middle brother is Shukichi, and "the wizard" means the mysterious child, it could be that she was staying with Shukichi before moving in with Masumi, and the middle brother's text was asking her if the mysterious child had arrived at her place.

Its just as big of a mystery as to whether Shukichi, if he's the middle brother, knows, and to what degree, about Shuichi's/Subaru's activities. If he already knows, the chances of him getting involved after its revealed he's the middle brother are raised. If he doesn't, then he has about the same chance as Masumi of getting involved with Shuichi's/Subaru's and Shinichi's/Conan's clash with the Black Organization.

Eisuke disappeared because he had to go to America—Shukichi will have no such reason if he suddenly vanishes from the manga, so that's why I make the Ariade comparison... if his purpose is merely to somehow lead Shinichi/Conan to the truth behind a certain mystery of the plot (the identity of the mysterious child; the identity of Vermouth, with Ariade), and/or he has no connection to other plot relevant characters (the mysterious child, Masumi, and Shuichi/Subaru; Ariade had no connections like that), he will likely go the way of Ariade.

Again, this mystery has endured for 2 and 1/2 years—the Bourbon mystery was one of the longest in the series, clocking in at 4 and 1/2 years to a revelation. I'm sure that, at the very latest, by this time in 2017, the truth will be revealed to us.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1470

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 19th, 2015, 4:33 am

Apologies for double-posting.

Spoiler:
Well, that's that. Shukichi's the middle brother.

Do you think this will lead somewhere, or are you disappointed and/or annoyed with Gosho for even implementing this?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
PirateKing
User avatar
Posts: 55

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby PirateKing » August 19th, 2015, 4:55 am

DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Apologies for double-posting.

Spoiler:
Well, that's that. Shukichi's the middle brother.

Do you think this will lead somewhere, or are you disappointed and/or annoyed with Gosho for even implementing this?


Spoiler:
Disappointed. I guess there had to be a time when the first person that was introduced turned out to be the guy we're looking for in the end. Still, gutted that Shuukichi wasn't a red herring. I hope it turns out false (not likely, but still), like how we were led to believe that Kir and Eisuke weren't related because of the differing blood groups and then it turned out to be true because of the blood transfusion. So does this mean that the "Haneda" is the APTX list really is the Mystery Girl?
Image
Max1996
User avatar
Posts: 426

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby Max1996 » August 19th, 2015, 5:30 am

PirateKing wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Apologies for double-posting.

Spoiler:
Well, that's that. Shukichi's the middle brother.

Do you think this will lead somewhere, or are you disappointed and/or annoyed with Gosho for even implementing this?


Spoiler:
Disappointed. I guess there had to be a time when the first person that was introduced turned out to be the guy we're looking for in the end. Still, gutted that Shuukichi wasn't a red herring. I hope it turns out false (not likely, but still), like how we were led to believe that Kir and Eisuke weren't related because of the differing blood groups and then it turned out to be true because of the blood transfusion. So does this mean that the "Haneda" is the APTX list really is the Mystery Girl?


I'm not sure if I should use the VIZ version of the manga for an argument, but I don't think so. The name listed was "Haneda, Koji". Unless MG is actually a guy, I don't think it's the same person as MG.
DCUniverseAficionado
User avatar

Life can be so many things... what it is for me and for you is up to us to decide.

Posts: 1470

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby DCUniverseAficionado » August 19th, 2015, 6:29 am

PirateKing wrote:
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Apologies for double-posting.

Spoiler:
Well, that's that. Shukichi's the middle brother.

Do you think this will lead somewhere, or are you disappointed and/or annoyed with Gosho for even implementing this?


Spoiler:
Disappointed. I guess there had to be a time when the first person that was introduced turned out to be the guy we're looking for in the end. Still, gutted that Shuukichi wasn't a red herring. I hope it turns out false (not likely, but still), like how we were led to believe that Kir and Eisuke weren't related because of the differing blood groups and then it turned out to be true because of the blood transfusion. So does this mean that the "Haneda" is the APTX list really is the Mystery Girl?


I don't think the APTX list is relevant—I think it was just shown so Shinichi's name and status could be contrasted. If it turns out otherwise, even for Gosho, this would be the longest it took to address a mystery, since that was a Volume 18 file.

Spoiler:
The only way the middle brother isn't Shukichi, at this point, is to introduce another character that's pretty much his clone… and wouldn't that make things worse, in your view?
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
k11chi
User avatar
Posts: 1459

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby k11chi » August 19th, 2015, 6:34 am

There used to be a time when people believed that the 2nd brother was Amuro so hopefully it's no one else but shuukichi but I'm not losing my sleep over whoever it is going to be
PirateKing
User avatar
Posts: 55

Re: My "Middle Brother" identity theory

Postby PirateKing » August 19th, 2015, 7:13 am

Spoiler:
The only way the middle brother isn't Shukichi, at this point, is to introduce another character that's pretty much his clone… and wouldn't that make things worse, in your view?


Spoiler:
Oh yes, introducing a clone and stuff is the last thing I want. I really did like jimmy_kudo's theory of how there is no middle brother and Masumi is just playing along so that she can remain in contact with Akai without getting too much attention. I haven't read the current file (waiting for the translation), but from what I read in the other thread, Sera's basically describing how her brother looks like to Yumi, and it closely resembles Shuukichi.

While I don't know the context of Sera's description, it could be that Sera's choosing a random description of the middle brother (Again, assuming jimmy's theory is right) in order to lessen Yumi's suspicion, which just happens to look like Shuukichi. But the problem is that it could go entirely offtrack and look like the start of a comedy manga with look-alikes and misunderstandings and such and is probably not likely.

So I don't think there's any other way Shuukichi can turn out not to be the middle brother, other than the clone you mentioned which would totally kill the arc. Just have to live with it.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

cron