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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:01 am
by Jd-
Conan 48:69 wrote:Perhaps Yusaku no-show for Macademy Awards ceremony, when the announcer said "The winner of the best script award is...Yusaku Kudou", but Yusaku didn't come to receive the award, then one of the staff said Mr Kudou had some urgency matter and could attend the ceremony, he is return to Japan to solve the matter, or even said he is return home to solve his son's matter.
The tape delay misdirection would be way better than this possibility, because otherwise, there's just no drama to come from it, at least from my perspective. Having him appear on TV and then it be revealed to be tape delay when it's revealed Yuusaku is this Okiya is at least something more than what it appears.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:02 am
by Okiyakaivan
can't wait for file 895 to out... i still confuse about dr.agasa as okiya/akai?

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:14 am
by dwa0456
I feel that it is yukiko (dont know if she can disguise as a man)o as Okiya in disguise in kudo's house . may be thats why they show him watching the awards show or yusaku . Also as Amuro came as a delivery boy at the door , he may just try to get Okiya's fingerprints or something while giving the delivery or while signing the receipt . Or may be he planted a bug in the delivery package (which is unlikely as Okiya could guess about it easily) .

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:32 am
by Fujiwara
Conan324 wrote:i don't understand why knowing that the BO agent committed suicide is a threat? can someone explain?
In short: It reveals that Akai faked his death, which in turn endangers Kir.

Longer version: Go read Chek's theory on the matter, which was in large parts confirmed by the current file (other parts haven't been cleared up yet):
http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... ath_theory

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:33 am
by User 4869
Conan324 wrote:i don't understand why knowing that the BO agent committed suicide is a threat? can someone explain?
His body could be used to replace Akai's, suggesting that Akai is alive. Kir is in danger, and whoever help Akai too

In a storytelling sense, anything that happen must be shown. Acquire body is possible but will be like the murderer has an extra key in a locked-room mystery. It cannot be deduct. Know the body is Kusuda's also mean they can test (or look at the record) to find out the body is not Akai.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 8:55 am
by k11chi
Conan324 wrote:i know that it revealed that akai faked his death but im not sure how bourbon confirmed that by knowing about kusuda's suicide, the BO already knows that he died so what if they discovered it was a suicide? the FBI could have other means of faking the death without needing a body double
They didn't know he died, they knew he had disappeared. Police knew he had disappeared BUT they also know that in his car there were high velocity blood splatters, and the body was gone. The FBI on the other hand know about the body itself and the gunshot.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 12:10 pm
by Chekhov MacGuffin
k11chi wrote:Well remember what the gain from Mystery Train was? It was Bourbon... At the moment it looks like that backfired massively...
No, the gain was to fake Shiho's death so the BO would relax and stop looking for her. Bourbon was a nice catch.

Also, thanks Kudo Shinchi (the user), for adding the explanation about why Okiya appearing before Amuro before makes it hard for Shuuichi to appear as Subaru on the train.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 12:43 pm
by Korvo
Smitty wrote: Anything related to Agent Camel is very dangerous - he was supposed to be blown up (603.14)
Camel is a crap agent. Who alerted Gin to the trap? Camel. Who had no cover reason for being in the country to tell the police? Camel. Who messes up crucially again this time? Camel.

::)

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 12:45 pm
by Chekhov MacGuffin
Korvo wrote:
Smitty wrote: Anything related to Agent Camel is very dangerous - he was supposed to be blown up (603.14)
Camel is a crap agent. Who alerted Gin to the trap? Camel. Who had no cover reason for being in the country to tell the police? Camel. Who messes up crucially again this time? Camel.

::)
To be fair to poor Camel, he has his specialty and it isn't dealing with the enemy. He isn't even that dumb, he's just a normal trying not to get too destroyed in a world of super geniuses.

@Smitty the BO only saw the back of Camel's head, not his face, and at a slight distance at that. The windows were opaque even though they were shown transparent in certain scenes so you could see facial expressions.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 1:52 pm
by Sunny88
Oh boy, the last few chapters has been nothing but one exciting moment after the other! I can't wait to read the next one :o

- Also, the ending of the new movie got me soooo pumped up for this! I suddenly feel in desperate need to own a time machine, haha.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 2:04 pm
by Jd-
Kudo Shinchi wrote:@Jd- About Akai appearing as himself on the Mystery Train; I'm pretty sure it was because Amuro at that point had already seen Okiya once, during the Detective Nocturne case. They both saw each other very briefly during the car chase. ... If Akai appeared as Okiya on the MT case, Amuro would know where to start looking right away, since I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just drop the fact that someone on the train with a grenade had directly interfered with his plan. Even if Akai ditched his Okiya identity right after that and disappeared, that would seem only more suspicious to Amuro, who would probably then decide to stay around anyways to investigate further, and what ended up happening for real in the story would happen anyways. Akai would have to come back with a new identity, since his mission as Okiya is staying hidden AND protecting Haibara, and in that case he'd make himself more conspicuous, as having Okiya disappear and be replaced by yet another new person would scream suspicious.
While they did see each other briefly, there isn't really an explanation in-series in place right now to explain why Akai had to show his face at all to toss the grenade apart from introducing a bit of drama and giving Gosho a reason to put Amuro back on track, and why Akai didn't take more precautions when he boarded the train in the first place. We're led to believe they came prepared for a lot of eventualities, but apparently they missed a pretty big one.

I'm OK with Amuro eventually working his way down to Okiya, but there is nothing in place right now that gives a real, solid reason for Akai to risk reigniting that investigation when his elaborate death was almost entirely confirmed. The risk-reward ratio is entirely in favor of the Black Organization, unless Akai and Conan know something major that we haven't even considered yet. After all, we have to factor in not just Amuro finding Akai himself but all of the side effects involved. Amuro, as soon as he saw Akai, completely changed tacts. From then on, he focused on Conan, on Sera, on Mouri, on Ran, on everyone that was even remotely involved in the situation, when otherwise he was ready to give up. There had to be a better logical way to handle that situation than outright handing him the answer. The way it's gone so far just made it seem like Amuro couldn't have done it without Akai's appearance there. He had fallen for the entire ploy just like everyone else, and the only reason their elaborate plan failed in the slightest was because of Akai's sudden appearance. From the outside looking in, it really doesn't feel like a lot of thought went into that move on Akai's part.

Naturally, given that this is Conan, I can take or leave all of that for the purposes of driving the story along, but what I cannot simply gloss over is the fact that Kir was instantly hung out to dry. Even if it turns out that Akai knows Amuro well from the past and thinks he knows how Amuro will react and everything else, Kir's life really shouldn't be put on the line in an already volatile situation. We were led to believe for an entire arc that re-introducing Kir to the organization would be driving in a wedge of steel the organization could never remove. A lot of importance was placed on getting her back in and completing her cover, which now seems like something that isn't as important as Akai coming back. As soon as Akai is confirmed back alive, Kir either has to die or has to flee the organization. So, expediting that process seems a bit pointless and fruitless given that, in the Conan world, it's only been (if the past is any indication) at most a month or two since she got back inside.

In short, Gosho almost has to have something more going on here, or else the Mystery Train will be remembered a lot like the Red Shirts in a couple of years.

Kor wrote:
Spoiler:
So far this is my only explanation: Everyone was being stupid and reckless in the Train Case. It's only miraculous that it worked so well for Conan.
That case is why I can't rule out Yusaku disguising as Okiya at this moment. It sounds dumb, but so does "Conan and his friends going on a train potentially filled with B.O. agents", or "Conan finding Kaito Kid and persuading him to disguise as Shiho".
I also want to note something else about the Mystery Train here. If we're sure that Amuro would have worked his way to Okiya, why would we not expect him to maybe think the whole thing was a setup? He has no real reason to believe that Shiho died there that day given that the guy he is chasing just revealed that their side is pretty good at faking deaths. Akai appearing there should be a bit of a red flag that maybe--just maybe--not everything is as it seems and maybe--just maybe--everything was a bit too convenient for their side as well. That would mean Amuro may not buy the Shiho death shenanigans and the entire thing would be wasted anyway. I'm really, really hoping there's some unseen angle to it that tidies up that case.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 2:27 pm
by Jd-
Some 894 stuff I noticed:
Spoiler:
There are definitely some similarities to how this file ended and how things went back during the Vermouth clash (345 in anime).

Originally, we had a good-bad guy (Jodie) appearing suspiciously at the home of one of our good guys ("Haibara"), who was wearing a flu mask that served as a voice-changer (later revealed to be Conan in disguise), and whose disguise was prepared by Yukiko.

Now, we have a good-bad guy (Amuro) appearing suspiciously at the home of one of our good guys ("Okiya"), who is wearing a flu mask that may serve as a voice-changer (maybe revealed to be Yuusaku in disguise), and whose disguise may have been prepared by Yukiko.

Note that "good-bad guy" refers to characters that we are expected to think are bad or could be bad due to various red herrings in the past but are ultimately revealed to be good.
The structural similarities are... interesting. My hope is that it's all misdirection to toy with long-time fans' expectations.

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 4:20 pm
by Jecka
Conan324 wrote:
Sunny88 wrote:Oh boy, the last few chapters has been nothing but one exciting moment after the other! I can't wait to read the next one :o

- Also, the ending of the new movie got me soooo pumped up for this! I suddenly feel in desperate need to own a time machine, haha.
the new movie is out in english subs??
No, Sunny88 lives in Japan and got to see it in theaters

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 4:58 pm
by aly_angelflight
Spoiler:
Geez, Vermouth, you should know that you can't fire a shotgun with one hand in your pocket... Obvious lie much? ::)

Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Posted: April 19th, 2014, 5:38 pm
by PhantomWriter
aly_angelflight wrote:
Spoiler:
Geez, Vermouth, you should know that you can't fire a shotgun with one hand in your pocket... Obvious lie much? ::)
Well, he could, I guess, but the backlash would likely break his wrist...
Jd- wrote:
Kudo Shinchi wrote:@Jd- About Akai appearing as himself on the Mystery Train; I'm pretty sure it was because Amuro at that point had already seen Okiya once, during the Detective Nocturne case. They both saw each other very briefly during the car chase. ... If Akai appeared as Okiya on the MT case, Amuro would know where to start looking right away, since I'm pretty sure he wouldn't just drop the fact that someone on the train with a grenade had directly interfered with his plan. Even if Akai ditched his Okiya identity right after that and disappeared, that would seem only more suspicious to Amuro, who would probably then decide to stay around anyways to investigate further, and what ended up happening for real in the story would happen anyways. Akai would have to come back with a new identity, since his mission as Okiya is staying hidden AND protecting Haibara, and in that case he'd make himself more conspicuous, as having Okiya disappear and be replaced by yet another new person would scream suspicious.
While they did see each other briefly, there isn't really an explanation in-series in place right now to explain why Akai had to show his face at all to toss the grenade apart from introducing a bit of drama and giving Gosho a reason to put Amuro back on track, and why Akai didn't take more precautions when he boarded the train in the first place. We're led to believe they came prepared for a lot of eventualities, but apparently they missed a pretty big one.

I'm OK with Amuro eventually working his way down to Okiya, but there is nothing in place right now that gives a real, solid reason for Akai to risk reigniting that investigation when his elaborate death was almost entirely confirmed. The risk-reward ratio is entirely in favor of the Black Organization, unless Akai and Conan know something major that we haven't even considered yet. After all, we have to factor in not just Amuro finding Akai himself but all of the side effects involved. Amuro, as soon as he saw Akai, completely changed tacts. From then on, he focused on Conan, on Sera, on Mouri, on Ran, on everyone that was even remotely involved in the situation, when otherwise he was ready to give up. There had to be a better logical way to handle that situation than outright handing him the answer. The way it's gone so far just made it seem like Amuro couldn't have done it without Akai's appearance there. He had fallen for the entire ploy just like everyone else, and the only reason their elaborate plan failed in the slightest was because of Akai's sudden appearance. From the outside looking in, it really doesn't feel like a lot of thought went into that move on Akai's part.

Naturally, given that this is Conan, I can take or leave all of that for the purposes of driving the story along, but what I cannot simply gloss over is the fact that Kir was instantly hung out to dry. Even if it turns out that Akai knows Amuro well from the past and thinks he knows how Amuro will react and everything else, Kir's life really shouldn't be put on the line in an already volatile situation. We were led to believe for an entire arc that re-introducing Kir to the organization would be driving in a wedge of steel the organization could never remove. A lot of importance was placed on getting her back in and completing her cover, which now seems like something that isn't as important as Akai coming back. As soon as Akai is confirmed back alive, Kir either has to die or has to flee the organization. So, expediting that process seems a bit pointless and fruitless given that, in the Conan world, it's only been (if the past is any indication) at most a month or two since she got back inside.

In short, Gosho almost has to have something more going on here, or else the Mystery Train will be remembered a lot like the Red Shirts in a couple of years.

Kor wrote:
Spoiler:
So far this is my only explanation: Everyone was being stupid and reckless in the Train Case. It's only miraculous that it worked so well for Conan.
That case is why I can't rule out Yusaku disguising as Okiya at this moment. It sounds dumb, but so does "Conan and his friends going on a train potentially filled with B.O. agents", or "Conan finding Kaito Kid and persuading him to disguise as Shiho".
I also want to note something else about the Mystery Train here. If we're sure that Amuro would have worked his way to Okiya, why would we not expect him to maybe think the whole thing was a setup? He has no real reason to believe that Shiho died there that day given that the guy he is chasing just revealed that their side is pretty good at faking deaths. Akai appearing there should be a bit of a red flag that maybe--just maybe--not everything is as it seems and maybe--just maybe--everything was a bit too convenient for their side as well. That would mean Amuro may not buy the Shiho death shenanigans and the entire thing would be wasted anyway. I'm really, really hoping there's some unseen angle to it that tidies up that case.
My only theory about why he didn't think it through was because he didn't anticipate the explosives either and knew he either had to do something immediately or KID would get killed as soon as he was discovered. On top of that, not covering means that the plan would for certain fall apart. (Unless that PSIA theory is correct, I should note, but that's something also unanticipated.) That is one of Akai's character traits, leaping immediately to defend the (relatively in this case) innocent. Both he and Conan have hero complexes (to quote Hermione, "a saving people thing"), but Conan has this weird sort of hatred with regard to KID and tried to blow KID up after the Midair Walk and was the one to incorporate KID into the plan without giving KID any information and blackmailing him into doing it.

As for the disguise issue, I have no idea why he chose to go in undisguised. Perhaps it relates to how Amuro thought for a moment he was Vermouth instead, so he'd have enough time to do what he came to do without getting shot?

I will admit the symmetry amuses me, JD.