Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
asanez2008
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby asanez2008 » April 23rd, 2014, 1:40 am

PhantomWriter wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:so your saying that Akai will never allow anyone to help them because of the risk involve? please lets not rule everyone out yet.


No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between not allowing any help at all and noting that there'd be more risk than normal for the person. And keep in mind that, though it would also protect Kir, the primary person being protected right now is Akai himself. He's not the kind of person that would put his family in danger like this to save himself, especially since he's the eldest sibling. Speaking as a sibling, I can tell you there's no way in hell that I'd put my little brother or older sister in danger like that to save my own hide. And there's no way my older sister would leave either my brother or me out to dry like that. Unless someone's a total asshole and hates their siblings, they're not going to put their siblings in that sort of danger like that.

The others eliminated are due to how it'd be a bad idea due to logistics and put them in extra danger: Shiho and Shinichi are supposed to be dead, so them disguising as Subaru and being revealed if/when Amuro gets grabby is just makes it more obvious that faked deaths are something the anti-Org side does. Heiji's disguised before in an Org. confrontation, so it becoming a pattern with him would paint a target on his backs. Yukiko confronting anyone other than Vermouth reveals that the anti-Org side can pull off disguising, which means they lose an advantage and calls into question other confrontations. And so on.

As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

You just gave me more reasons to believe that It was Sera that was disguising as Subaru right now to help them trick Bourbon. She will definitely help them if they ask for her help without second thought even if Akai is againts it because you know they are siblings after all. There's also the fact that she wont have any problems at all even if bourbon finds out. that's a plus right?
private
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby private » April 23rd, 2014, 1:54 am

asanez2008 wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:so your saying that Akai will never allow anyone to help them because of the risk involve? please lets not rule everyone out yet.


No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between not allowing any help at all and noting that there'd be more risk than normal for the person. And keep in mind that, though it would also protect Kir, the primary person being protected right now is Akai himself. He's not the kind of person that would put his family in danger like this to save himself, especially since he's the eldest sibling. Speaking as a sibling, I can tell you there's no way in hell that I'd put my little brother or older sister in danger like that to save my own hide. And there's no way my older sister would leave either my brother or me out to dry like that. Unless someone's a total asshole and hates their siblings, they're not going to put their siblings in that sort of danger like that.

The others eliminated are due to how it'd be a bad idea due to logistics and put them in extra danger: Shiho and Shinichi are supposed to be dead, so them disguising as Subaru and being revealed if/when Amuro gets grabby is just makes it more obvious that faked deaths are something the anti-Org side does. Heiji's disguised before in an Org. confrontation, so it becoming a pattern with him would paint a target on his backs. Yukiko confronting anyone other than Vermouth reveals that the anti-Org side can pull off disguising, which means they lose an advantage and calls into question other confrontations. And so on.

As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

You just gave me more reasons to believe that It was Sera that was disguising as Subaru right now to help them trick Bourbon. She will definitely help them if they ask for her help without second thought even if Akai is againts it because you know they are siblings after all. There's also the fact that she wont have any problems at all even if bourbon finds out. that's a plus right?


Just wait for the file....
Yuki_JX
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Yuki_JX » April 23rd, 2014, 2:07 am

asanez2008 wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:so your saying that Akai will never allow anyone to help them because of the risk involve? please lets not rule everyone out yet.


No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between not allowing any help at all and noting that there'd be more risk than normal for the person. And keep in mind that, though it would also protect Kir, the primary person being protected right now is Akai himself. He's not the kind of person that would put his family in danger like this to save himself, especially since he's the eldest sibling. Speaking as a sibling, I can tell you there's no way in hell that I'd put my little brother or older sister in danger like that to save my own hide. And there's no way my older sister would leave either my brother or me out to dry like that. Unless someone's a total asshole and hates their siblings, they're not going to put their siblings in that sort of danger like that.

The others eliminated are due to how it'd be a bad idea due to logistics and put them in extra danger: Shiho and Shinichi are supposed to be dead, so them disguising as Subaru and being revealed if/when Amuro gets grabby is just makes it more obvious that faked deaths are something the anti-Org side does. Heiji's disguised before in an Org. confrontation, so it becoming a pattern with him would paint a target on his backs. Yukiko confronting anyone other than Vermouth reveals that the anti-Org side can pull off disguising, which means they lose an advantage and calls into question other confrontations. And so on.

As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

You just gave me more reasons to believe that It was Sera that was disguising as Subaru right now to help them trick Bourbon. She will definitely help them if they ask for her help without second thought even if Akai is againts it because you know they are siblings after all. There's also the fact that she wont have any problems at all even if bourbon finds out. that's a plus right?


No! Its not Sera considering what happened in "Detective's Nocturne Series". Three of them; Amuro, Sera, and Subaru are present in that case. Amuro noticed the presence of Subaru in the car and saw Sera hitting the Takayo in the face. So using Sera to pose as Subaru to trick Amuro won't work.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby private » April 23rd, 2014, 2:13 am

Yuki_JX wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:so your saying that Akai will never allow anyone to help them because of the risk involve? please lets not rule everyone out yet.


No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between not allowing any help at all and noting that there'd be more risk than normal for the person. And keep in mind that, though it would also protect Kir, the primary person being protected right now is Akai himself. He's not the kind of person that would put his family in danger like this to save himself, especially since he's the eldest sibling. Speaking as a sibling, I can tell you there's no way in hell that I'd put my little brother or older sister in danger like that to save my own hide. And there's no way my older sister would leave either my brother or me out to dry like that. Unless someone's a total asshole and hates their siblings, they're not going to put their siblings in that sort of danger like that.

The others eliminated are due to how it'd be a bad idea due to logistics and put them in extra danger: Shiho and Shinichi are supposed to be dead, so them disguising as Subaru and being revealed if/when Amuro gets grabby is just makes it more obvious that faked deaths are something the anti-Org side does. Heiji's disguised before in an Org. confrontation, so it becoming a pattern with him would paint a target on his backs. Yukiko confronting anyone other than Vermouth reveals that the anti-Org side can pull off disguising, which means they lose an advantage and calls into question other confrontations. And so on.

As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

You just gave me more reasons to believe that It was Sera that was disguising as Subaru right now to help them trick Bourbon. She will definitely help them if they ask for her help without second thought even if Akai is againts it because you know they are siblings after all. There's also the fact that she wont have any problems at all even if bourbon finds out. that's a plus right?


No! Its not Sera considering what happened in "Detective's Nocturne Series". Three of them; Amuro, Sera, and Subaru are present in that case. Amuro noticed the presence of Subaru in the car and saw Sera hitting the Takayo in the face. So using Sera to pose as Subaru to trick Amuro won't work.

Also Sera thought his old brother is dead and also sera's move is risky and akai wouldn't want sera to involved her.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby RoboG55 » April 23rd, 2014, 2:20 am

PhantomWriter wrote:
asanez2008 wrote:so your saying that Akai will never allow anyone to help them because of the risk involve? please lets not rule everyone out yet.


No, that's not what I'm saying. There's a difference between not allowing any help at all and noting that there'd be more risk than normal for the person. And keep in mind that, though it would also protect Kir, the primary person being protected right now is Akai himself. He's not the kind of person that would put his family in danger like this to save himself, especially since he's the eldest sibling. Speaking as a sibling, I can tell you there's no way in hell that I'd put my little brother or older sister in danger like that to save my own hide. And there's no way my older sister would leave either my brother or me out to dry like that. Unless someone's a total asshole and hates their siblings, they're not going to put their siblings in that sort of danger like that.

The others eliminated are due to how it'd be a bad idea due to logistics and put them in extra danger: Shiho and Shinichi are supposed to be dead, so them disguising as Subaru and being revealed if/when Amuro gets grabby is just makes it more obvious that faked deaths are something the anti-Org side does. Heiji's disguised before in an Org. confrontation, so it becoming a pattern with him would paint a target on his backs. Yukiko confronting anyone other than Vermouth reveals that the anti-Org side can pull off disguising, which means they lose an advantage and calls into question other confrontations. And so on.

As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.


I agree! I'm not the eldest but rather the youngest in my family, but if I was, I wouldn't sacrifice my younger siblings to save myself. It's more likely that I'd risk myself to protect them. Akai is not an a*****e, and it is pretty clear that he loves Sera. I mean, he has been protecting her one way or another. And anyway, Sera getting involved would endanger their entire family. Akai would most certainly not want THAT to happen!

It is definitely a really bad idea for Shiho or Shinichi to disguise just in case. Heiji disguising again might endanger him. And the side against the Organization will most certainly lose a good advantage if the BO knows that they can disguise themselves. I believe Goshou has already confirmed that Kid will most likely not be in another BO case, so we can rule him out.

...and with that, there are only a few possibilities left over who could possibly be Mask Subaru. We'll just have to see.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby PhantomWriter » April 23rd, 2014, 2:22 am

I'm remaining skeptical of anyone other than Shuichi is involved that is a member of his family. It would be unwise for anyone in the Organization to get into their heads that other Akai family members are anti-Org. Could result in the whole family being targeted as a safety measure, considering Akai being considered for a time a silver bullet. And, again, I remain skeptical that Akai would permit his family to do so for him. You need to remember that he is neither the same age group, nor with the same background, as Conan. He is former FBI. Generally, those sorts of organizations don't want random civilians, even if family, to get involved. It's dangerous and the agent would be more likely to take certain rash actions.

Even if Masumi were willing to jump to her brother's aid, that doesn't mean she'd necessarily be allowed to know what's going on in the first place, especially since she's avoided becoming neck-deep in this dance of death. And, even if she were willing and was allowed to know, Akai would likely prevent her from doing something for him like that. Again, using the sibling discussion and personal experience, I would jump to help my siblings, but I wouldn't expect them to jump in and help me and, if it were serious enough, I would forbid them from doing so to keep them safe. I don't have reason to think Akai would be any different.

Latching onto any particular theory about who Mask Subaru is unwise, considering how little information we have at the moment, aside from basic details we can glean from the chapter (height, build, logic based on current story circumstances). I'm saying who it isn't or isn't likely to be and why I think that, citing examples and what my train of thought is. I'm not saying who it is, as there is too little evidence to support such a definitive conclusion. There is a difference.

Yuki_JX wrote:No! Its not Sera considering what happened in "Detective's Nocturne Series". Three of them; Amuro, Sera, and Subaru are present in that case. Amuro noticed the presence of Subaru in the car and saw Sera hitting the Takayo in the face. So using Sera to pose as Subaru to trick Amuro won't work.


Precisely another problem with the theory about Sera as Mask Subaru. It would be seen through immediately and raise questions about why Sera is protecting Subaru. Especially if Amuro then talks to Ran about her friend's thoughts about Subaru. If he hears about her being suspicious of and glaring at Subaru, that would make him even more curious...
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ALAKTORN
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby ALAKTORN » April 23rd, 2014, 6:28 am

PhantomWriter wrote:As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

The explosives weren’t “found out”, Conan knew about them and told KID in advance: “They’ll probably try and corner her in the storage hold, where they’ve set some explosives, so be careful…” ch.824 p.15. So KID blurting it out made no sense, it means Conan didn’t tell him to keep quiet about them.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » April 23rd, 2014, 2:53 pm

ALAKTORN wrote:
PhantomWriter wrote:As for KID's inclusion, I have no idea. It always came across to me as something Conan did last minute, which explains what Akai did last minute when the explosives in the carriage were found out.

The explosives weren’t “found out”, Conan knew about them and told KID in advance: “They’ll probably try and corner her in the storage hold, where they’ve set some explosives, so be careful…” ch.824 p.15. So KID blurting it out made no sense, it means Conan didn’t tell him to keep quiet about them.

+1
I assume Conan forgot to warn Kid not to mention them because Conan was in a rush judging by the mood of the scene.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Jd- » April 23rd, 2014, 3:13 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:Based on Amuro's past with the Miyanos it seems like he should get along well with them. Since Conan explicitly pointed out he thought it was strange that Amuro didn't kill Shiho on the train there must be a reason for it. I wonder if Amuro's reason for hating Akai is because of what Akai did to Akemi, but not because Amuro loved Akemi. Amuro was suspicious of Akai during the infiltration segment, but Akemi became attached to Akai despite Amuro's warnings/suspicion. When Akai was confirmed FBI, that was the final straw for Amuro who hated seeing Akemi used.

As we were talking about Amuro's prospects a few days ago, what my mind kept coming back to is that I had this nagging thought that Akai and Amuro will end up (at least temporarily) burying their differences when it's revealed to Amuro that Gin was the one who ultimately killed Akemi. While he may hate Akai for everything that's come of his using her, surely he isn't going to be especially chummy when he finds out Gin was the one who killed her. I'm not sure how Gosho could work this into a serviceable plot, but I kept coming back to that as a possibility even though I don't really see it happening from a logical standpoint.

At first, I discounted the thought, thinking, "Surely he must already know about it." After all, Amuro was just involved in an operation involving Akemi's sister, he's an expert at gathering intel, etc., so if he knew her or cared about her in any form, surely he would have looked into how it was she died exactly. The real question then becomes just how widely-known it is that Gin was the one who pulled the trigger, and that may be something that's just not discussed in the Organization. Still, I find it strange that if any of this is accurate that Amuro would continue working for the Organization if he knew she died at its hand--unless, of course, he's aiming to come after them as soon as Akai's out of the way or whatnot. If Gosho does make it that Amuro just didn't know Gin killed her and is making that part of his investigation, I guess I'd be OK with that.

There are a lot of distinct possibilities to explain what's going on, and of course "childhood friends" is bound to rear its tired head right off the bat. Hopefully there's a lot packed into the 16 pages of 895.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » April 23rd, 2014, 3:21 pm

Jd- wrote:At first, I discounted the thought, thinking, "Surely he must already know about it."
There is zero rhyme or season to who knows what in this series; sometimes people were passed info, other times they weren't. (ex. Amuro knew Jodie and Camel were close to Akai and recognized Sera most likely (hard to find out), but didn't look at Akai's death video until recent chapters. (You'd think he would want this the most!)) This is one of the hardest things to compensate for theory-wise.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby The_evilbit » April 23rd, 2014, 3:26 pm

Keep in mind however even though Amuro didn't fire his gun, he didn't intervene in Shiho's "death" either. In fact he smiled and accepted it as fate. Not sure I support the idea that Amuro is close to the Miyanos when he appears indifferent in Shiho's suffering. If role reversal was introduced and it was Vermouth pointing a gun at Kid disguised as Shinichi, you better believe she will put on an act though in the end sabotage/botch the assassination attempt. So to say Amuro was close to the Miyanos but didn't even lift a finger to help Shiho, he either knew that Shiho on the MT was fake or he has no ties to them whatsoever other than an individual that resembles their mother.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby PhantomWriter » April 23rd, 2014, 4:55 pm

Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Jd- wrote:At first, I discounted the thought, thinking, "Surely he must already know about it."
There is zero rhyme or season to who knows what in this series; sometimes people were passed info, other times they weren't. (ex. Amuro knew Jodie and Camel were close to Akai and recognized Sera most likely (hard to find out), but didn't look at Akai's death video until recent chapters. (You'd think he would want this the most!)) This is one of the hardest things to compensate for theory-wise.


He didn't look at the death video until then? Please tell me that's a joke.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » April 23rd, 2014, 5:19 pm

PhantomWriter wrote:
Chekhov MacGuffin wrote:
Jd- wrote:At first, I discounted the thought, thinking, "Surely he must already know about it."
There is zero rhyme or season to who knows what in this series; sometimes people were passed info, other times they weren't. (ex. Amuro knew Jodie and Camel were close to Akai and recognized Sera most likely (hard to find out), but didn't look at Akai's death video until recent chapters. (You'd think he would want this the most!)) This is one of the hardest things to compensate for theory-wise.


He didn't look at the death video until then? Please tell me that's a joke.

My reaction on reading the scene in 894

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Yuki_JX » April 23rd, 2014, 10:22 pm

If Amuro theorized that Akai faked his own death to begin with. He may be considering that the video may already been tampered and he fears after seeing the video may lead him away far from truth. So after he gathered some intels, he is now confident enough to see the video.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Postby Chekhov MacGuffin » April 23rd, 2014, 10:34 pm

Yuki_JX wrote:If Amuro theorized that Akai faked his own death to begin with. He may be considering that the video may already been tampered and he fears after seeing the video may lead him away far from truth. So after he gathered some intels, he is now confident enough to see the video.
I don't think that is the case; it sounds like Bourbon might not have had access to the video at all. He had to ask Vermouth for permission to see some materials related to Akai's death in 824. If Vermouth had to offer to him the chance to watch the recording, then he probably didn't have access.

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