Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Elixir

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by Elixir »

wkd wrote: Since you mentioned that scene I feel like saying what have bugged me from the very first time I saw it in The Clash Of Red & Black. The way the FBI wanted to capture Gin was ok, but then when the old man showed up all of a sudden and Camel rushed into him trying to warn him about the place being dangerous for him. Akai & all the other agents kept watching the old man smirking & walk away easily without taking any action. First when I saw it I was like: "What the hell? Just as easy as that? They didn't even take an attempt to arrest him or even question him?". Man it's not logical, they spent 2 years or so tucking a highly ranked agent of them into the organization, and when the moment came, not one of them attempted to do anything to that old man? It's even not clear to us who that old man is. I wonder if he's an agent in the organization or if he was hired by them to check for traps like these. The FBI allowing a suspicious person like him get away easily can't just get in my head. There's even no reason for it.
Bull's eye! *Clap* *Clap*
Could it be that the FBI was too shy to detain this old man because they were operating in the Japanese soil or what? Meh, Gosho just didn't think of this implication. Hahah. Or did he?
Nemomon
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by Nemomon »

wkd wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
kholoudsafir wrote:The only thing that took my attention in the series was Camel's flashback about slipping information. since my memory is weak, was that case shown in the pas how he passed info before? I might be over thinking, but I am wondering if it has a major role in the plot
yes,
It was shown in the past, as a flashback, during the Clash of red and black series. And yes, it had a major role since that lead to the organization finding out about akai being an FBI agent and thus resulting Akemi's death!!!

Basically, Camel indirectly killed Akemi!!
Since you mentioned that scene I feel like saying what have bugged me from the very first time I saw it in The Clash Of Red & Black. The way the FBI wanted to capture Gin was ok, but then when the old man showed up all of a sudden and Camel rushed into him trying to warn him about the place being dangerous for him. Akai & all the other agents kept watching the old man smirking & walk away easily without taking any action. First when I saw it I was like: "What the hell? Just as easy as that? They didn't even take an attempt to arrest him or even question him?". Man it's not logical, they spent 2 years or so tucking a highly ranked agent of them into the organization, and when the moment came, not one of them attempted to do anything to that old man? It's even not clear to us who that old man is. I wonder if he's an agent in the organization or if he was hired by them to check for traps like these. The FBI allowing a suspicious person like him get away easily can't just get in my head. There's even no reason for it.
They knew he's from the Organization, and probably planned to follow him once he would leave the warehouse. But Camel was quicker and showed his position to him. But then indeed they should have arrested that guy instead of leaving him alone.
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AICHAN
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by AICHAN »

I think the reason why they let the old man go was because they didn't know he was a BO member,I guess they thought he was a civilian.They realized that he was a MIB because Gin didn't come in the warehouse.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by wkd »

@Elixir: I don't think that's a good reason to be called on. He was interrupting a mission & is suspicion enough to be doubted. Gosho better had thought about it or it'll be considered a neglected mistake, from someone as accurate as him.

@Nemomon: He showed up suddenly, as they were expecting Gin to show up to capture him, but that man suddenly came out of nowhere. They didn't expect him to be there, which caused the fatal mistake by Camel. They were supposed to follow him or question his sudden appearance at a place like the one they were at.

@AICHAN: If they thought this way, then it was an unexpected trip by trusted FBI agents. It doesn't add up. Someone like Akai present at the moment of the event should've doubted his appearance, and his very annoying smirk he showed up on his face. In addition, Akai appeared, as shown to us, right just when the man slipped away from the meeting place, shaking his head to Camel about his slip. This means he knew right away that it was a trap. Another thing is that the place was very unnatural for an old man to show up at, wise men like them should have known by then. I'm still wondering to find a logical explanation to this scene..
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

wkd wrote:@Elixir: I don't think that's a good reason to be called on. He was interrupting a mission & is suspicion enough to be doubted. Gosho better had thought about it or it'll be considered a neglected mistake, from someone as accurate as him.

@Nemomon: He showed up suddenly, as they were expecting Gin to show up to capture him, but that man suddenly came out of nowhere. They didn't expect him to be there, which caused the fatal mistake by Camel. They were supposed to follow him or question his sudden appearance at a place like the one they were at.

@AICHAN: If they thought this way, then it was an unexpected trip by trusted FBI agents. It doesn't add up. Someone like Akai present at the moment of the event should've doubted his appearance, and his very annoying smirk he showed up on his face. In addition, Akai appeared, as shown to us, right just when the man slipped away from the meeting place, shaking his head to Camel about his slip. This means he knew right away that it was a trap. Another thing is that the place was very unnatural for an old man to show up at, wise men like them should have known by then. I'm still wondering to find a logical explanation to this scene..
mercy for an old man? It doesn't matter, you can see it as a plot hole if you want to, and it probably is one too, but it honestly wouldn't matter whether they caught him or not, the outcome would probably be the same anyway, the old man keeping quiet(even try to kill himself when he get the chance) And ofc, Akai's cover being blown off!!!
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
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Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
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Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
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wkd

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by wkd »

Well since Akai's cover was already blown by Camel unintentionally, would it matter if they blow their cover in the meeting place even more by trying to capture that man? I don't think so. Concerning the point that he'll commit suicide, the FBI, anywhere in the world should have the ability to capture a person and prevent him from such behaviors. If he kept quiet, they could have used their torturing methods against criminals. Or something more merciful for a civilian you may suggest? They may question him gently, then bug him & monitor his actions by watching over him from a close distance, they may find out something from this. You know the FBI, they have their ways in doing stuff like this. It's a flaw in the plot? Yeah it is. Would it matter bragging about it now after 5 years? No. Gosho wanted it to happen that way, but he could have blown Akai's cover in various other better ways.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

wkd wrote:Well since Akai's cover was already blown by Camel unintentionally, would it matter if they blow their cover in the meeting place even more by trying to capture that man? I don't think so. Concerning the point that he'll commit suicide, the FBI, anywhere in the world should have the ability to capture a person and prevent him from such behaviors. If he kept quiet, they could have used their torturing methods against criminals. Or something more merciful for a civilian you may suggest? They may question him gently, then bug him & monitor his actions by watching over him from a close distance, they may find out something from this. You know the FBI, they have their ways in doing stuff like this. It's a flaw in the plot? Yeah it is. Would it matter bragging about it now after 5 years? No. Gosho wanted it to happen that way, but he could have blown Akai's cover in various other better ways.
catching rikumichi didn't go so well now did it? Im just stating possibilities but my point is that whether they caught that old man or not, they still failed to catch one of the high ranked members in the BO as well as someone who can work for them from the inside of the org at the same time. Camel's wrong judgement lead to their defeat, it's futile to try catch that grunt when u lost big time UNLESS that old man had a higher rank in the BO
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
wkd

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by wkd »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
wkd wrote:Well since Akai's cover was already blown by Camel unintentionally, would it matter if they blow their cover in the meeting place even more by trying to capture that man? I don't think so. Concerning the point that he'll commit suicide, the FBI, anywhere in the world should have the ability to capture a person and prevent him from such behaviors. If he kept quiet, they could have used their torturing methods against criminals. Or something more merciful for a civilian you may suggest? They may question him gently, then bug him & monitor his actions by watching over him from a close distance, they may find out something from this. You know the FBI, they have their ways in doing stuff like this. It's a flaw in the plot? Yeah it is. Would it matter bragging about it now after 5 years? No. Gosho wanted it to happen that way, but he could have blown Akai's cover in various other better ways.
catching rikumichi didn't go so well now did it? Im just stating possibilities but my point is that whether they caught that old man or not, they still failed to catch one of the high ranked members in the BO as well as someone who can work for them from the inside of the org at the same time. Camel's wrong judgement lead to their defeat, it's futile to try catch that grunt when u lost big time UNLESS that old man had a higher rank in the BO
Yeah I was expecting you to talk about the Kusuda Rikumuchi chase, but that's a different case. Kusuda was driving a car & had much time to commit suicide, unlike our suspect whose a couple of meters away from them. It may be hard, but they could handle it if they tried their best. Since they knew they're a step behind & lost, they may could fix things up fast by capturing that man? He may give them a lead? Maybe he's disguised as an old man but actually he's not? Maybe he's hired oftenly by someone inside the BO? The FBI should had not left space for ifs and buts. In my opinion they didn't do their duty on a 100%. They all didn't make a move but Camel due to his inexperience, so this must mean they doubted him from the very beginning. Why didn't they even take a small action, not even a short question to him or a follow up to his whereabouts?
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

wkd wrote:
MeiTanteixX wrote:
wkd wrote:Well since Akai's cover was already blown by Camel unintentionally, would it matter if they blow their cover in the meeting place even more by trying to capture that man? I don't think so. Concerning the point that he'll commit suicide, the FBI, anywhere in the world should have the ability to capture a person and prevent him from such behaviors. If he kept quiet, they could have used their torturing methods against criminals. Or something more merciful for a civilian you may suggest? They may question him gently, then bug him & monitor his actions by watching over him from a close distance, they may find out something from this. You know the FBI, they have their ways in doing stuff like this. It's a flaw in the plot? Yeah it is. Would it matter bragging about it now after 5 years? No. Gosho wanted it to happen that way, but he could have blown Akai's cover in various other better ways.
catching rikumichi didn't go so well now did it? Im just stating possibilities but my point is that whether they caught that old man or not, they still failed to catch one of the high ranked members in the BO as well as someone who can work for them from the inside of the org at the same time. Camel's wrong judgement lead to their defeat, it's futile to try catch that grunt when u lost big time UNLESS that old man had a higher rank in the BO
Yeah I was expecting you to talk about the Kusuda Rikumuchi chase, but that's a different case. Kusuda was driving a car & had much time to commit suicide, unlike our suspect whose a couple of meters away from them. It may be hard, but they could handle it if they tried their best. Since they knew they're a step behind & lost, they may could fix things up fast by capturing that man? He may give them a lead? Maybe he's disguised as an old man but actually he's not? Maybe he's hired oftenly by someone inside the BO? The FBI should had not left space for ifs and buts. In my opinion they didn't do their duty on a 100%. They all didn't make a move but Camel due to his inexperience, so this must mean they doubted him from the very beginning. Why didn't they even take a small action, not even a short question to him or a follow up to his whereabouts?
I'm not saying that they shouldn't have done it just that it wouldn't change the outcome of their loss. Besides, I doubt the BO were clumsy enough to send an old man without a backup plan in mind, in case he would be captured. Among all possible plan B the BO might have, one of them could be him hiding a gun in his pocket, ready to shoot himself out of the place(he can probably walk properly) or shoot himself directly. Wouldn't be so different from kusuda's case at all then. But like I said, already agreed to it being a plothole that gosho forgot to fill up but in the end, it doesn't really matter IMO
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
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sherryx

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by sherryx »

Was the scene of the old man smirking and walking away from the anime? Perhaps they were embellishing it a bit to make it more interesting/obvious? From file 607 it was implied that he just left normally.

Image

I feel that when the old man left, they thought that it's likely that he was just an unlucky civilian that happened to wander in because he didn't do anything suspicious (in the manga at least). They had no reason to try and capture him; it's clear from the 3rd panel that they didn't think he was BO when he left and only realised it when Gin never appeared.

From the FBI's POV, Gin was due to walk in at any moment. If they tried to capture the old man and he was really just a civilian, Gin would likely have realised that Akai wasn't alone. If they tried to get someone to tail the old man, it is also highly possible that Gin would have seen. Since they are mostly positive that he was just a civilian, it wouldn't have been worth it to risk blowing this chance for nothing. They may have had some small bit of doubt when he first walked in, which is why they didn't do anything (a non-risky move), but it's not enough for them to interrogate/tail/approach/capture the old man, which is risky.

FBI's POV (if old man really was a BO member):
- None of the FBI besides Akai could have asked him anything because Akai was supposed to be alone.
- Akai asking the old man anything might have appeared suspicious because Akai was supposed to be a "real" BO member --> whether the old man was a civilian or someone sent by Gin shouldn't have bothered him.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

sherryx wrote:Was the scene of the old man smirking and walking away from the anime? Perhaps they were embellishing it a bit to make it more interesting/obvious? From file 607 it was implied that he just left normally.

Image

I feel that when the old man left, they thought that it's likely that he was just an unlucky civilian that happened to wander in because he didn't do anything suspicious (in the manga at least). They had no reason to try and capture him; it's clear from the 3rd panel that they didn't think he was BO when he left and only realised it when Gin never appeared.

From the FBI's POV, Gin was due to walk in at any moment. If they tried to capture the old man and he was really just a civilian, Gin would likely have realised that Akai wasn't alone. If they tried to get someone to tail the old man, it is also highly possible that Gin would have seen. Since they are mostly positive that he was just a civilian, it wouldn't have been worth it to risk blowing this chance for nothing. They may have had some small bit of doubt when he first walked in, which is why they didn't do anything (a non-risky move), but it's not enough for them to interrogate/tail/approach/capture the old man, which is risky.

FBI's POV (if old man really was a BO member):
- None of the FBI besides Akai could have asked him anything because Akai was supposed to be alone.
- Akai asking the old man anything might have appeared suspicious because Akai was supposed to be a "real" BO member --> whether the old man was a civilian or someone sent by Gin shouldn't have bothered him.
true true, you're right, so in the end, they never knew at the moment, and akai chose to not make a move until further notice while camel reacted without thinking. Nothing was certain like you said.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
wkd

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by wkd »

You cleared it all up by showing us the manga's view of the event. The anime messed up with the scene to tense it up, which caused some of us to think it's a plot hole, which it's clearly isn't. Another reason for me to check again for the difference between the anime & manga, and stick to the to manga, as I started doing so from The Scarlet Series. Damn it for god's sake a simple added dumb scene caused all of this confusion, yet I don't regret it that much cause it made me discuss & talk with members like you. :D
sherryx

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by sherryx »

No problem ^^ I was just a bit surprised because I usually think of DC anime as being quite faithful to the manga (clearly I don't watch it :P).
kholoudsafir

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by kholoudsafir »

So Ai is supposed to hate Camel >:D
Every time I want to give up on DC, it manages to bring me back, it brings me back feelings I know that I will never ever feel or live again.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Post by MeiTanteixX »

Not exactly because the reason she even got involved in the first place was because of akai
wkd wrote:You cleared it all up by showing us the manga's view of the event. The anime messed up with the scene to tense it up, which caused some of us to think it's a plot hole, which it's clearly isn't. Another reason for me to check again for the difference between the anime & manga, and stick to the to manga, as I started doing so from The Scarlet Series. Damn it for god's sake a simple added dumb scene caused all of this confusion, yet I don't regret it that much cause it made me discuss & talk with members like you. :D
yea ur right!! ^^ and I agree, it's always nice to discuss with you guys. But I'll advice u to reread the whole manga from the start like me, if you want to get a clean view of the serie. I'm already in chapter 120
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
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