Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-898: Scarlet Series!

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

Dyka_13 wrote:
Yuki_JX wrote:Their is a possibility that masked Subaru is Jodie Starling in disguise; feminine glass and narrow shoulder which a woman trait. The mask probably is use to hide the fact that the disguise is not perfect as what vermouth capable of doing. The fact that Jodie Starling is an FBI agent may make a perfect scene that makes Amuro believe that he falls in the trap that FBI sets (thinking that FBI leaks false intelligences to fish BO members) while revealing himself as a member of BO and may not pursue Akai anymore (Jodie without knowing Subaru is Akai is also possible in this scene i think)
This might make sense if Conan has been 'faking' his shocked reactions recently. If everyone including the FBI are in this, they might actually have build things up (with the reveals, etc.) until this faceoff situation. Knowing that Bourbon wont tell the information to other org members just yet is also an important point.

Shinichi had done this in a couple of occasions, recently in the bell tree case where he pretended to panic, during the call. If this scenario is true, Shinichi has the upper hand. But if the faceoff is not preplanned, then I wouldnt think Shinichi will get FBI involved in this...
No, Conan was most certainly not prepared for this situation before now. His paranoia, anxiety, and fear during the fast few chapters are too genuine to be faked IMO.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

And, even then, there's still not enough evidence for that theory relating to the FBI. We just know some details about the situation that are more concrete due to the evidence (such as Mask Subaru and Subaru being different people) and stuff that is easily surmised (Amuro's not going to walk into the lion's den without some sort of failsafe to prevent him from immediately being shot or incapacitated). We can narrow down who Mask Subaru is to a pool of suspects but, other than that, we can't say anything yet until we get more evidence.
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pikacutie25
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by pikacutie25 »

Guys, guys, next chapter is called "Scarlet Interrogation," meaning questions will be asked by Amuro and maybe even Subaru too. So, depending on who responds how, we can get a lot more information we can use for speculating theorizing. So let's wait until we actually have sufficient information, k? The way this discussion is going now is only throwing us all in endless circles of speculation using insufficient evidence.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by mihai »

an important factor in this whole mess is whether Amuro expects Subaru to be Akai and will question him hoping that Akai will give himself away next chapter. That is kinda reckless for Amuro because you are right, the guy will most likely shoot you, since we all know Akai likes to shoot BO members. So for now Amuro will avoid the "i'm a damn smart BO member and I deduced that you are Akai Shuuichi and you faked your death" approach.
Also After this case I want Conan and Okiya to speak normally(as in skipping the 'Subaru-niichan' formalities). After all Conan is letting him stay and they both know each other's identity.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

mihai wrote:an important factor in this whole mess is whether Amuro expects Subaru to be Akai and will question him hoping that Akai will give himself away next chapter. That is kinda reckless for Amuro because you are right, the guy will most likely shoot you, since we all know Akai likes to shoot BO members. So for now Amuro will avoid the "i'm a damn smart BO member and I deduced that you are Akai Shuuichi and you faked your death" approach.
Also After this case I want Conan and Okiya to speak normally(as in skipping the 'Subaru-niichan' formalities). After all Conan is letting him stay and they both know each other's identity.
Well, that issue of how Conan speaks may be to maintain their covers, when other people are around. We haven't seen them discuss things alone that would result in such a drop in formality.

Again, that's why, if Amuro is going to do that sort of thing, he'd have to make it very clear from the outset of a fail-safe. That, if certain kinds of harm come to Amuro, it would end up harming people. He's not a fool, even if he was fooled during the Mystery Train. He didn't know Akai was there (due to the FBI's reactions and such, he figured Akai really was dead until he saw Akai's silhouette) or that KID was dressed as Shiho.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Yuki_JX »

The two things i think that Conan must consider in planning is first; that Amuro gain an intelligence directly from FBI Agents (The fact that Kusuda Rikumichi shot himself to commit suicide) this fact links what really happened to Akai. If Conan doesn't resolve this information Amuro will continue to be suspicious, but by creating a situation that Amuro thinks that this intelligence is leaked on purpose to catch/fish BO members. Amuro will now think and consider this just a false/fake/null intelligence.

Second, is the real identity of Subaru. If Yusaku and others pose thereselves as Subaru the first thing a person with high detective abilities like Amuro think is what gain/reason/objective/ they may benefit in posing as Subaru? Possibly none I think. If Jodie or other FBI agents pose as Subaru the possibly reason Amuru will think (by adding my argument above )is they posed just to catch/fish Black Organization Members which is the one of their jobs and I think it will work since Amuro also used this similar kind of psychological tactics (when Amuro posed as Scar Akai before).
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

Yuki_JX wrote:The two things i think that Conan must consider in planning is first; that Amuro gain an intelligence directly from FBI Agents (The fact that Kusuda Rikumichi shot himself to commit suicide) this fact links what really happened to Akai. If Conan doesn't resolve this information Amuro will continue to be suspicious, but by creating a situation that Amuro thinks that this intelligence is leaked on purpose to catch/fish BO members. Amuro will now think and consider this just a false/fake/null intelligence.

Second, is the real identity of Subaru. If Yusaku and others pose thereselves as Subaru the first thing a person with high detective abilities like Amuro think is what gain/reason/objective/ they may benefit in posing as Subaru? Possibly none I think. If Jodie or other FBI agents pose as Subaru the possibly reason Amuru will think (by adding my argument above )is they posed just to catch/fish Black Organization Members which is the one of their jobs and I think it will work since Amuro also used this similar kind of psychological tactics (when Amuro posed as Scar Akai before).
That would require Jodie to be aware of the situation. She's the only member of the FBI with the build Mask Subaru has, which is a different build than Akai and differing body proportions. Or it's a case of double disguises, like with Heiji during the Halloween case.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Yuki_JX »

Probably she will be aware or probably not in whole, but we all knew that this case only happened because of Jodie & Camel (their fault) and Conan may oblige and force them both to do this without questions right?

The implication of double disguises is that Amuro (he smart don't underestimate him) will probably starting thinking the real gain/reason/objective the poser and Amuro may doubt more and more.

Like the post on the other thread "viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12255" in my opinion it implies/hinted that the poser is a female and an amateur in disguise perfectly fits to Jodie.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Dyka_13 »

Again, IMO if the whole FBI mistakes thing wasnt done on purpose to build up to this face off, I dont think Shin will get FBI involved...
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by PhantomWriter »

Yuki_JX wrote:Probably she will be aware or probably not in whole, but we all knew that this case only happened because of Jodie & Camel (their fault) and Conan may oblige and force them both to do this without questions right?

The implication of double disguises is that Amuro (he smart don't underestimate him) will probably starting thinking the real gain/reason/objective the poser and Amuro may doubt more and more.

Like the post on the other thread "viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12255" in my opinion it implies/hinted that the poser is a female and an amateur in disguise perfectly fits to Jodie.
I'm not underestimating Amuro. I'm aware he would be suspicious about it. And if he gets grabby, it's not like Hattori first taking off the bandage disguise, then the Shinichi disguise. Amuro's likely going to yank and use more force that could damage a disguise underneath and make it obvious that there's another disguise.

I'm also leaning toward the disguiser being female or a younger/teenage male.

Mask Subaru cannot be certain characters due to body proportions:
  • Agasa: Too wide and definitely too short.
  • Yuusaku: Too broad in the shoulders.
  • Camel: Too broad in the shoulders and his face shape aren't right.
  • James: Too broad in the shoulders.
There are other characters ruled out due to undue danger to themselves:
  • Haibara: mentally noted stuff about this being outside her area, Agasa and Conan have been keeping it secret from her, and handing her over to Amuro to save Akai would make Akai violent, as that's in violation of Akai's whole promise to Akemi. On top of that, they just got out of the Mystery Train mess recently, so suddenly someone in the Org. that isn't Vermouth realizing both Akai and Shiho are alive would be doubly a bad situation.
  • Conan: Bad idea. REALLY bad idea. Shinichi Kudou is supposed to be dead. Add in how Haibara's not involved, meaning it's unlikely a temporary antidote involved, and this is simply not going to work.
  • Unknown Child: Even assuming they are the real Subaru shrunken by APTX and Akai is in contact with him, that would require revealing to Conan and Haibara that he's shrunken. I also don't think Akai would let his brother put himself in danger like that.
  • Hattori: Aside from it already being done before from a meta standpoint, there's the issue of how he's done this disguising before when dealing with the Org. in the story. If there becomes a recurring theme that Hattori is consistently disguising and involved in Black Org. related messes, the Org. is going to put the pieces together.
  • Yukiko: As discussed earlier by someone else, the Org. aside from Vermouth doesn't know the anti-Org. side has a disguiser. That is a vital piece of both the Halloween ship case and the Bell Tree train case. If Amuro gets confirmation that they do, even if he's already only suspicious, their machinations become clearer. Then it opens up the possibility that Hattori collaborated with someone that was anti-Org. to help them and that the Sherry on the train wasn't actually Sherry, meaning she's still alive.
Meanwhile, KID is eliminated due to logistical issues: They wouldn't have the time to track him down in one day and he wouldn't agree to it after the end of Mystery Train because of how he nearly got murdered. And it's the same guy he'd be confronting, which would probably freak him out still. From a meta standpoint, Gosho said KID wouldn't be involved in Org. cases.

Though one could argue it'd be a good idea to have Camel disguise as Subaru and maintain the shoulder and limb proportions, his overall face shape is much more blocky and that'd raise more eyebrows from Amuro than differing shoulder proportions. Meanwhile, James and Yuusaku have facial hair, which could complicate a disguise. Thus far, with the disguised we've seen, they've always been lacking in facial hair: Hattori, Conan, KID, Yukiko, Vermouth, Akai, and Amuro. They also still don't match who we see that's dressed as Subaru.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Yuki_JX »

PhantomWriter wrote:
Yuki_JX wrote:Probably she will be aware or probably not in whole, but we all knew that this case only happened because of Jodie & Camel (their fault) and Conan may oblige and force them both to do this without questions right?

The implication of double disguises is that Amuro (he smart don't underestimate him) will probably starting thinking the real gain/reason/objective the poser and Amuro may doubt more and more.

Like the post on the other thread "viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12255" in my opinion it implies/hinted that the poser is a female and an amateur in disguise perfectly fits to Jodie.
I'm not underestimating Amuro. I'm aware he would be suspicious about it. And if he gets grabby, it's not like Hattori first taking off the bandage disguise, then the Shinichi disguise. Amuro's likely going to yank and use more force that could damage a disguise underneath and make it obvious that there's another disguise.

I'm also leaning toward the disguiser being female or a younger/teenage male.

Mask Subaru cannot be certain characters due to body proportions:
  • Agasa: Too wide and definitely too short.
  • Yuusaku: Too broad in the shoulders.
  • Camel: Too broad in the shoulders and his face shape aren't right.
  • James: Too broad in the shoulders.
There are other characters ruled out due to undue danger to themselves:
  • Haibara: mentally noted stuff about this being outside her area, Agasa and Conan have been keeping it secret from her, and handing her over to Amuro to save Akai would make Akai violent, as that's in violation of Akai's whole promise to Akemi. On top of that, they just got out of the Mystery Train mess recently, so suddenly someone in the Org. that isn't Vermouth realizing both Akai and Shiho are alive would be doubly a bad situation.
  • Conan: Bad idea. REALLY bad idea. Shinichi Kudou is supposed to be dead. Add in how Haibara's not involved, meaning it's unlikely a temporary antidote involved, and this is simply not going to work.
  • Unknown Child: Even assuming they are the real Subaru shrunken by APTX and Akai is in contact with him, that would require revealing to Conan and Haibara that he's shrunken. I also don't think Akai would let his brother put himself in danger like that.
  • Hattori: Aside from it already being done before from a meta standpoint, there's the issue of how he's done this disguising before when dealing with the Org. in the story. If there becomes a recurring theme that Hattori is consistently disguising and involved in Black Org. related messes, the Org. is going to put the pieces together.
  • Yukiko: As discussed earlier by someone else, the Org. aside from Vermouth doesn't know the anti-Org. side has a disguiser. That is a vital piece of both the Halloween ship case and the Bell Tree train case. If Amuro gets confirmation that they do, even if he's already only suspicious, their machinations become clearer. Then it opens up the possibility that Hattori collaborated with someone that was anti-Org. to help them and that the Sherry on the train wasn't actually Sherry, meaning she's still alive.
Meanwhile, KID is eliminated due to logistical issues: They wouldn't have the time to track him down in one day and he wouldn't agree to it after the end of Mystery Train because of how he nearly got murdered. And it's the same guy he'd be confronting, which would probably freak him out still. From a meta standpoint, Gosho said KID wouldn't be involved in Org. cases.

Though one could argue it'd be a good idea to have Camel disguise as Subaru and maintain the shoulder and limb proportions, his overall face shape is much more blocky and that'd raise more eyebrows from Amuro than differing shoulder proportions. Meanwhile, James and Yuusaku have facial hair, which could complicate a disguise. Thus far, with the disguised we've seen, they've always been lacking in facial hair: Hattori, Conan, KID, Yukiko, Vermouth, Akai, and Amuro. They also still don't match who we see that's dressed as Subaru.
A very good critical thinking. I ruled out most of them in very one reason "RISK". Most of them are civilians and it is not right to include them directly to the case
that may risk their lives.

Camel, may be, can be a part of the plot but as Mask Subaru is a way no basing only on Camel's Personality

At first I'm also leaning female or a younger/teenage male. But I ruled out younger/teenage male because first the Mask Subaru has a narrow shoulder a trait for adult women and second is lack to none of younger/teenage male candidates that have no potential risks if they confront a BO Member. There only few candidates for female like Jodie, Sera and Vermouth. Vermouth is a master of disguise so i ruled out her because Mask Subaru looks like an amateur. I ruled out Sera in the reference of "Detective Nocturne Series". So Jodie I believe is the best bet
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by The_evilbit »

Assuming Gosho put no misdirects in the chapter, we can conclude a sleight of hand is in play that involves:

-Professor Agasa's assistance.
-Excludes Shiho's involvement.
-The timing of the "Mcademy Awards"

We know Yusaku has some acting ability. I know all capable characters are still suspicious though I believe the fact that the Mcademy Awards are airing when Bourbon shows up is a critical point. If this "Subaru Okiya" is Yusaku, wouldn't it make sense to show Yusaku on TV during Bourbon's interrogation?
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by Kor »

The_evilbit wrote:If this "Subaru Okiya" is Yusaku, wouldn't it make sense to show Yusaku on TV during Bourbon's interrogation?
Or it's Yukiko disguised as Okiya, and she's watching the awards so she can see if Yusaku wins the award (though if the show is not live, then Yukiko would already know whether he won or not)
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

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Last edited by Wakarimashita on April 22nd, 2014, 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Discussion Thread: Detective Conan Files 894-???: Scarlet Series!

Post by AICHAN »

I really doubt it's Jodie,mostly because Conan keeps secrets from her and Camel about Akai fake death,and they did so many mistakes with Amuro that it would surprised me if Conan asked jodie's help...
For now I think it's Yusaku,because if Gosho mentions him somewhere in the file,that means he'll have a role in this case(like kid during the MT case).Yukiko is a master of deguises,she can solve the problem of facial hair easily.And I don't see any issues with his shoulders.
After all Yusaku is the only one who can surpass shinichi in terms of detective skills.
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