Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

[ArseneLupen]

Maybe it has something to do with that Kuroda is indeed papa Akai? I mean if Shuichi sees Kuroda, he can resemble him as his Father (feel that he saw him somewhere like the situation between Shinichi-Ran-Sera). Gosho doesnt bring them together because this kind of reaction ? I feel very suspicous.

And Kor's compare about the pockets is a very nice hint if Kuroda is really papa Akai. A habit that he has it from his father.

[blackmoon]

If both were right handed, both will damage the other's left eye. Rumi is mostly right handed, on the scars front it's more likely to be made by knives/swords rather than scissors. As wounds inflicted by scissors will be stab wounds, not slash wounds.

Her scars could be caused by a dagger axe.

And her right eye is (most likely) damaged.

Right. So there is one more mystery related to the crime scene from 17 years ago. Say if a fight really broke out in Kohji Haneda's hotel room, and it was a fight that involved more than exchange of fists, and that sharp edged weapons were used, that definitely would leave traces of blood on the floor or blood stains on items in the room, but, no blood traces were found.

That would only imply two possibilities: 1. There was a fight and struggle that happened that messed up the room, but no blood was actually spilled in the room (even if someone was gripping a sharp weapon?) OR
2. The blood traces that were left in the room were cleaned up afterwards. The room has been messed with deliberately to mislead investigators and leave a false impression of what actually happened in the room.

If it were case 1, it also imply that the culprit flee from the spot and left the crime scene immediately after the assault, so he or she must not have time to clean up the crime scene.
But if it were case 2 and the culprit did have time to clean up blood on the scene, then even the 'dying message' could be deliberately tampered with (IF that hint really was left by the dying person).

What is more likely? That there were no blood spilled or blood was cleaned up? If the room really was messed up deliberately rather than being the actual scene left after the culprit fled immediately, the question still remains as to the motive and reason as to why he or she did so. Why? Why would the culprit not realize there is a dying message if he or she did have time to clean up the room?

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... _years_ago
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net ... ethod.html

[Zerozaki4869]

Jumping back to the Daddy Akai thing.

You know how Akai has his hands in his pockets A LOT? He's done that since his introduction. He fired a shotgun while having one of his hands stuffed inside his pocket. Like, he even does that when he's at the beach. The guy's clearly obsessed with his pockets.



You know who also can't keep his hands outside of his pockets? Kuroda. In the two cases he's been primarily featured in, his hands are constantly inside his pockets unless there's an action he needs his hand for.

Question, does Subaru Okiya do the same thing?(like keeping his hands in his pockets for all the time)
If someone is hiding his identity they are more likely to discard their past signature behaviours, but their chatchphrases often do come out.(Like how Jodi realised that Okiya uses that 50% catchphrase just like Akai.)

So given Tsutomu's idioms are being used by Gin and Gosho sort of confirms that Tsutomu has infiltrated BO, it's more likely that Tsutomu is a spy in BO.

[Zerozaki4869]

Also we are yet to know whether papakai used to keep his hands in his pocket, like Shuichi. Only then it'll be a like for like comparison.

[Zerozaki4869]

If both were right handed, both will damage the other's left eye. Rumi is mostly right handed, on the scars front it's more likely to be made by knives/swords rather than scissors. As wounds inflicted by scissors will be stab wounds, not slash wounds.

Her scars could be caused by a dagger axe.

And her right eye is (most likely) damaged.

Right. So there is one more mystery related to the crime scene from 17 years ago. Say if a fight really broke out in Kohji Haneda's hotel room, and it was a fight that involved more than exchange of fists, and that sharp edged weapons were used, that definitely would leave traces of blood on the floor or blood stains on items in the room, but, no blood traces were found.

That would only imply two possibilities: 1. There was a fight and struggle that happened that messed up the room, but no blood was actually spilled in the room (even if someone was gripping a sharp weapon?) OR
2. The blood traces that were left in the room were cleaned up afterwards. The room has been messed with deliberately to mislead investigators and leave a false impression of what actually happened in the room.

If it were case 1, it also imply that the culprit flee from the spot and left the crime scene immediately after the assault, so he or she must not have time to clean up the crime scene.
But if it were case 2 and the culprit did have time to clean up blood on the scene, then even the 'dying message' could be deliberately tampered with (IF that hint really was left by the dying person).

What is more likely? That there were no blood spilled or blood was cleaned up? If the room really was messed up deliberately rather than being the actual scene left after the culprit fled immediately, the question still remains as to the motive and reason as to why he or she did so. Why? Why would the culprit not realize there is a dying message if he or she did have time to clean up the room?

http://www.detectiveconanworld.com/wiki ... _years_ago
http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net ... ethod.html

I do have a theory for this. Rum after killing Haneda was going to clean-up but somehow le wild Tsutomu appeared and he kicked the crap out of Rum. Rum flees from the spot and being chased by Tsutomu. A third part sneaks into the room, takes the clue from Haneda's cpalms, creates the fake clue(Carasuma) and gets the hell out. Hyoue Kuroda comes after everything is done and dusted and sees Kohji's corpse lying in the room.

[blackmoon]

I do have a theory for this. Rum after killing Haneda was going to clean-up but somehow le wild Tsutomu appeared and he kicked the crap out of Rum. Rum flees from the spot and being chased by Tsutomu. A third part sneaks into the room, takes the clue from Haneda's cpalms, creates the fake clue(Carasuma) and gets the hell out. Hyoue Kuroda comes after everything is done and dusted and sees Kohji's corpse lying in the room.

See, the thing is i have trouble piecing it together that would actually make sense. Say the third party that sneaked into the room and took the clue from Haneda's palms was Rumi (since she kept a shogi piece that she seemed to treasure so much and kept in her pants pocket which indicated she carried it with her all the time~ implying it must be significant and cannot be lost or revelaed or else somehow her identity may be exposed??) but... how do you explain the strange scars that is all over her arms and body? Those scars indicate that she may have been in defense from slashing attacks from an edged weapon! And why would an 'ordinary woman' have incurred such scars AND have access to APTX victim list that only BO members should have? So maybe she was a BO member? Then why would she leave a clue (fake or not) that could potentially lead to an investigation towards Carasuma? Unless she had a grudge with that person or that family? And if she was not associated with Rum in any way, why would she be at the crime scene? (Why would she know there would be a murder that would happen there? And what is in it for her to temper with the crime scene if she was JUST a thrid party and not invovled somehow at all?) If Kuroda did not have any past (foul) relationships with Rumi, why did Rumi seemed agitated when she met him at the camping trip? Where could they have known each other?

Now there's several theories about Rumi that she could be Amanda's body guard (got the injury from defense), she could be Rum herself (got the injury from attacks from the body guard), she could be Rum's accomplice in the crime scene manipulation (so her scar being totally unrelated to the event 17 years ago) or she could just be an innocent third party (then why would she even be near the crime scene?) or maybe she was a private investigator (then why would she hold onto the shogi piece that could implicate her identity?) Which makes more sense?

[Zerozaki4869]

I do have a theory for this. Rum after killing Haneda was going to clean-up but somehow le wild Tsutomu appeared and he kicked the crap out of Rum. Rum flees from the spot and being chased by Tsutomu. A third part sneaks into the room, takes the clue from Haneda's cpalms, creates the fake clue(Carasuma) and gets the hell out. Hyoue Kuroda comes after everything is done and dusted and sees Kohji's corpse lying in the room.

See, the thing is i have trouble piecing it together that would actually make sense. Say the third party that sneaked into the room and took the clue from Haneda's palms was Rumi (since she kept a shogi piece that she seemed to treasure so much and kept in her pants pocket which indicated she carried it with her all the time~ implying it must be significant and cannot be lost or revelaed or else somehow her identity may be exposed??) but... how do you explain the strange scars that is all over her arms and body? Those scars indicate that she may have been in defense from slashing attacks from an edged weapon! And why would an 'ordinary woman' have incurred such scars AND have access to APTX victim list that only BO members should have? So maybe she was a BO member? Then why would she leave a clue (fake or not) that could potentially lead to an investigation towards Carasuma? Unless she had a grudge with that person or that family? And if she was not associated with Rum in any way, why would she be at the crime scene? (Why would she know there would be a murder that would happen there? And what is in it for her to temper with the crime scene if she was JUST a thrid party and not invovled somehow at all?) If Kuroda did not have any past (foul) relationships with Rumi, why did Rumi seemed agitated when she met him at the camping trip? Where could they have known each other?

Now there's several theories about Rumi that she could be Amanda's body guard (got the injury from defense), she could be Rum herself (got the injury from attacks from the body guard), she could be Rum's accomplice in the crime scene manipulation (so her scar being totally unrelated to the event 17 years ago) or she could just be an innocent third party (then why would she even be near the crime scene?) or maybe she was a private investigator (then why would she hold onto the shogi piece that could implicate her identity?) Which makes more sense?

You're worried about the wrong stuff. I'll tell you what is it.
1) Haneda's palm and fingers show a matching bruise, if he was hiding a shogi piece and holding scissors defensively. Haneda's corpse shows signs of attack made towards his both eyes. But his spectacles are intact and still it is on his corpse. The mirror clue is impossible to create under the circumstances.(Mirror with backing, mirror missing even bigger pieces which had nothing written on them, no scratch/gouge marks on the backing.)

2) If this third party took the evidence/dying message from Haneda's hand we can't call him/her a good person anymore.(Obstructing investigation)

3) There was no trace of blood, found in Kohji's room. Even if no blood is present, the investigation team will perform a Luminol test to ascertain whether blood was wiped out or not. That's not the case also.

4) The scratch marks on Rumi's torso only tells us that she was involved in a knife fight. Bodyguards, generally use guns not knives.

5) To create the fake clue one just needs to get a broken mirror, hide the the parts of it which were broken, switch on the tap and just leave. People aware of CMP reaction would surely jump to the conclusion. As of now only Boss is being shown to have an interest in dying message, others only shown to know it's a big deal and to assume any person would relate Karasuma with BO, without prior knowledge is unthinkable, as Karasuma is already dead.

6) So I can assume that the third party has done it as to get some dirt on Rum(to blackmail him), the said third party can be a BO member who assisted Rum at the Kohji murder case but Rum somehow implicated that third party, so the third party as a mode of some insurance against Rum took the stuff from the crime scene.

7) Rumi is known to have some cool idea about stable equilibrium(Candle swing experiment), so it won't be far fetched to assume that she also knows about CMP reaction.

8) A Bo agent, with scars over all her body, holding onto a shogi piece, stole evidence from the crime scene, is on the move and is probably plotting something against Rum. Maybe Rumi is the only witness of whom Rum is afraid of and he wants to silence her, Rumi doesn't know Rum personally so she's hiding and trying to get Conan's help to investigate Rum.

[Kor]

Question, does Subaru Okiya do the same thing?(like keeping his hands in his pockets for all the time)
If someone is hiding his identity they are more likely to discard their past signature behaviours, but their chatchphrases often do come out.

This is correct. As Okiya, Akai has way more panels with his hands out of his pocket. Two recurring visual cues are of him folding his arms or putting his hand on his chin. He still does put his hands in his pockets often enough, though.
Also when he's alone with Camel and Jodie after they know his identity, he goes back to the pockets.

So given Tsutomu's idioms are being used by Gin and Gosho sort of confirms that Tsutomu has infiltrated BO, it's more likely that Tsutomu is a spy in BO.

And any particular reason why Tsutomu can't be Kuroda and also used to be a spy in the organization?

Also we are yet to know whether papakai used to keep his hands in his pocket, like Shuichi. Only then it'll be a like for like comparison.

And their ridiculously similar fashion sense? Pure coincidence?

[Zerozaki4869]

Question, does Subaru Okiya do the same thing?(like keeping his hands in his pockets for all the time)
If someone is hiding his identity they are more likely to discard their past signature behaviours, but their chatchphrases often do come out.

This is correct. As Okiya, Akai has way more panels with his hands out of his pocket. Two recurring visual cues are of him folding his arms or putting his hand on his chin. He still does put his hands in his pockets often enough, though.
Also when he's alone with Camel and Jodie after they know his identity, he goes back to the pockets.

So given Tsutomu's idioms are being used by Gin and Gosho sort of confirms that Tsutomu has infiltrated BO, it's more likely that Tsutomu is a spy in BO.

And any particular reason why Tsutomu can't be Kuroda and also used to be a spy in the organization?

Also we are yet to know whether papakai used to keep his hands in his pocket, like Shuichi. Only then it'll be a like for like comparison.

And their ridiculously similar fashion sense? Pure coincidence?

One proves my point, that as Okiya Akai tries to make a different image, quite cautiously.

For the second, Haibara's smell. There's a bigger reason, Kuroda is a the genuine guy who went into coma.(anyone mimicking his injury to the last detail, wouldn't screw up his hair colour. Waking up from the coma can be timed well enough to make sure the hair dye facade is pulled perfectly.)

Putting hands into your pockets really not reflective of your fashion sense,(I can say Papakai liked a goatee and some facial hairs and short hair, Shuichi likes a clean shaven face and long hairs. See, that's a slippery slope.)
Mary thought that "This boy is really Tsutomu-san's son." after Shuichi utters one of Tsutomu's silly proverbs. It's the hint to look for Tsutomu.(In Manga there was a similar hint to look for Akai, as he often used a quote about probabilities. Jodie singles out Subaru after the latter used the same quote.) Also Tsutomu is shown on the keyhole with his left eye covered. I think that is something(given this arc is all about eyes, just like you think tie colour is something remarkable.)

[blackmoon]

You're worried about the wrong stuff. I'll tell you what is it.

8) A Bo agent, with scars over all her body, holding onto a shogi piece, stole evidence from the crime scene, is on the move and is probably plotting something against Rum. Maybe Rumi is the only witness of whom Rum is afraid of and he wants to silence her, Rumi doesn't know Rum personally so she's hiding and trying to get Conan's help to investigate Rum.

Well, maybe I am overthinking, but there is something I just can't figure out about Rumi.
Obviously introducing her as a feminine with combat ability like a strong built man, cunning in scheming by buying extra sets of cups and plates just to lure Conan and the young detectives into a case like an old fox, complete disregard and ruthlessness in injuring a criminal, while having access to BO's APTX file, and the most suspicious thing being her name Rumi = 'Rum + I' All seem to suggest and make her suspiciously possible as the ideal Rum candidate. Really? Is it that simple and obvious?

Yet... somehow I have a hunch that this is just another trap laid by Gosho to trick the readers into believing a false lead. After all, who would openly declare 'i am rum and rum is i' in their name?! And openly announce your association with Rum is like asking for a response to a death wish! Definitely not something the real Rum or accomplice of Rum would do. And if the Carasuma is just a false message as you point out, it just makes everything Gosho painted for us even more suspicious.

On a sidenote, what would be a perfect disguise for someone like Rum? An actual living person that is still alive or taking on the identity of someone who has already died? Like in the mystery novel\movie titled: "and then there were none," the true culprit is actually one of the victims that was supposively already declared dead, and since nobody would suspect a dead person, the culprit can totally stay out of the light and conceal him\herself like a demon in the dark.

https://youtu.be/i4_b4O4vhuQ

[Zerozaki4869]

You're worried about the wrong stuff. I'll tell you what is it.

8) A Bo agent, with scars over all her body, holding onto a shogi piece, stole evidence from the crime scene, is on the move and is probably plotting something against Rum. Maybe Rumi is the only witness of whom Rum is afraid of and he wants to silence her, Rumi doesn't know Rum personally so she's hiding and trying to get Conan's help to investigate Rum.

Well, maybe I am overthinking, but there is something I just can't figure out about Rumi.
Obviously introducing her as a feminine with combat ability like a strong built man, cunning in scheming by buying extra sets of cups and plates just to lure Conan and the young detectives into a case like an old fox, complete disregard and ruthlessness in injuring a criminal, while having access to BO's APTX file, and the most suspicious thing being her name Rumi = 'Rum + I' All seem to suggest and make her suspiciously possible as the ideal Rum candidate. Really? Is it that simple and obvious?

Yet... somehow I have a hunch that this is just another trap laid by Gosho to trick the readers into believing a false lead. After all, who would openly declare 'i am rum and rum is i' in their name?! And openly announce your association with Rum is like asking for a response to a death wish! Definitely not something the real Rum or accomplice of Rum would do. And if the Carasuma is just a false message as you point out, it just makes everything Gosho painted for us even more suspicious.

On a sidenote, what would be a perfect disguise for someone like Rum? An actual living person that is still alive or taking on the identity of someone who has already died? Like in the mystery novel\movie titled: "and then there were none," the true culprit is actually one of the victims that was supposively already declared dead, and since nobody would suspect a dead person, the culprit can totally stay out of the light and conceal him\herself like a demon in the dark.

https://youtu.be/i4_b4O4vhuQ

You're overthinking on several levels, Rum's description is an womanly man, the keyword being man, not a strong woman.

There's another issue, a person like Rumi needs one hit to tame a person like Haneda. The number of bruises in haneda's body indicates that he was attacked by a strong person who over powered him, not out matched him in fighting skills. Rumi could have easily done that.

She used to be an Asaka suspect and due to Asaka=Rum hyperbole, she got slotted into Rum circle. TBH Iori is a far better Rum suspect than Rumi.(Effeminate/womanly, yet strong man.)

For me I'm more interested in how could Haneda was in a position to name Rum?
I think Rum's social identity was known by Haneda and Rum is a man with tastes/profession/speaking habit which makes him appear old, strong and Womanly. TBH he showed that he's strong in Kohji murder case but he lacks fighting skills.

[dccd]

WTF is wrong with you guys.

Brown suit with a darkblue shirt and a white tie?
I think is doesnt get much more unique then this.
As soon as I saw this at the anime I was really unpleased since it really looked like missed potential.
Now I know why Gosho chose that suitcolour.

Kor just found the first absolutele 100% proof - again P.R.O.O.F. - to Kurodas identity
and noone goes absolutely nuts?
Instead of major recognition he gets a site like this?
Srsly guys...

Goshos statement says absolutely nothing about Tsutomu being in the bo.
With the current status (Kuroda = Tsutomu 100%) and Ais reaction to Kuroda we can be 99,9% sure that he never wasnt.
Stop interpretating things against found facts - and yes these are true facts not someones 125th interpretation.

[Zerozaki4869]

WTF is wrong with you guys.

Brown suit with a darkblue shirt and a white tie?
I think is doesnt get much more unique then this.
As soon as I saw this at the anime I was really unpleased since it really looked like missed potential.
Now I know why Gosho chose that suitcolour.

Kor just found the first absolutele 100% proof - again P.R.O.O.F. - to Kurodas identity
and noone goes absolutely nuts?
Instead of major recognition he gets a site like this?
Srsly guys...

Goshos statement says absolutely nothing about Tsutomu being in the bo.
With the current status (Kuroda = Tsutomu 100%) and Ais reaction to Kuroda we can be 99,9% sure that he never wasnt.
Stop interpretating things against found facts - and yes these are true facts not someones 125th interpretation.

Yes just as your avatar is Yamamura, we should also deduce your logical reasoning is as sound as Yamamura. (If this above mentioned stuff is to be considered as proof.)

BTW it's a common dressing code in DC universe. Also Wakita too has a light brown coat, a dark shirt and white belt. See proof of Wakita being Tsutomu.( Gosho confirmed that there's a relationship between Gin and Tsutomu, that's why it's a secret.)

[blackmoon]

WTF is wrong with you guys.

Brown suit with a darkblue shirt and a white tie?
I think is doesnt get much more unique then this.
As soon as I saw this at the anime I was really unpleased since it really looked like missed potential.
Now I know why Gosho chose that suitcolour.

Kor just found the first absolutele 100% proof - again P.R.O.O.F. - to Kurodas identity
and noone goes absolutely nuts?
Instead of major recognition he gets a site like this?
Srsly guys...

Goshos statement says absolutely nothing about Tsutomu being in the bo.
With the current status (Kuroda = Tsutomu 100%) and Ais reaction to Kuroda we can be 99,9% sure that he never wasnt.
Stop interpretating things against found facts - and yes these are true facts not someones 125th interpretation.

LoL! Nothing wrong really, it's just so solid and obvious that it is irrefutable, so what more is there to be discussed about it? Well, unless if you wish for a praise and applause to Kor for solving that and correctly connecting Tsutomu to Kuroda... then Congratulations!! Good job!

But even that still need to wait for revelation from Gosho to confirm it though. And hmm... I would LOVE to compare finger prints of Kuroda's with Tsutomu's to see if it actually matches.

[blackmoon]

You're overthinking on several levels, Rum's description is an womanly man, the keyword being man, not a strong woman.

There's another issue, a person like Rumi needs one hit to tame a person like Haneda. The number of bruises in haneda's body indicates that he was attacked by a strong person who over powered him, not out matched him in fighting skills. Rumi could have easily done that.

She used to be an Asaka suspect and due to Asaka=Rum hyperbole, she got slotted into Rum circle. TBH Iori is a far better Rum suspect than Rumi.(Effeminate/womanly, yet strong man.)

For me I'm more interested in how could Haneda was in a position to name Rum?
I think Rum's social identity was known by Haneda and Rum is a man with tastes/profession/speaking habit which makes him appear old, strong and Womanly. TBH he showed that he's strong in Kohji murder case but he lacks fighting skills.

Mwhahaha... seriously? While I personally prefer Iori to be THE Rum suspect, but he is no way weak or less skilled in fighting than Rumi... you must have missed the drawing where he kicked ass out of some imposer in raven costume. Indicating that his preferred fighting style is fly kicking with the knee rather than punching. As you said above, Haneda's bruises indicated that he was probably hit multiple times instead of being finished in one shot, but Iroi clearly has the skill to finish a person in one shot.