Anokata theory: The boss may be...

[Pmofmalasia]

What do you mean by the English version, the Viz version or the fansubbed one? Could be important.

According to episode 219, Karasuma died at the age of 99, about forty years ago. And there is no mention of the Crow Association.

Could he have taken APTX and people just thought that he died?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

What do you mean by the English version, the Viz version or the fansubbed one? Could be important.

According to episode 219, Karasuma died at the age of 99, about forty years ago. And there is no mention of the Crow Association.

Could he have taken APTX and people just thought that he died?

Did APTX even exist back then? Even then, why would anyone as important as the boss risk taking taking an unfinished prototype drug which does such a good job of killing people that the Black Org currently uses it for assassination?

[dcfan01]

In fact he was never mentionned in the English Version, but why he is mentionned ine the anime version? Maybe in the japanease version he is mentionned.

This is clearly just a bad translation case. I think it is better to forget about the manga translation, and get your facts from the anime, wich is translated correctly.

According to episode 219, Karasuma died at the age of 99, about forty years ago. And there is no mention of the Crow Association.

Could he have taken APTX and people just thought that he died?

It is highly unlikely..
APTX didn't exist 40 years ago, and Shiho's parents started working for the BO just 30 years ago (at least Atsushi)
Also, only about 18 years ago, when Elena Miyano recorded the tapes for Shiho, she mentioned that they were working in the Silver Bullet project.. wich means that whatever it was they were doing, it was still in progress 18 years ago.

Even if the BO managed to develop a drug that somehow resembled the APTX back then, and Karasuma was able to fake his death, I assume he would try to find a way to keep the huge mansion built of gold (not only because of its monetary value, but also, because you can clearly see that it was his most precious treasure)..

Finally, we have seen to what extent does the BO go, just to cover its tracks.. so I don't think he would just let someone buy that mansion (musch less a detective interested in what happened 40 years ago).. even if he tried to clean everything, it would be impossible to be sure that he didn't leave a single fingerprint or hair in such a huge mansion where he lived in his most weak days..

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Yes this is a bad translation, but in this picture they speak about the crow association "http://www.google.fr/imgres?q=renya+kar ... 2,s:0,i:86" I don't know if the anime talk about it or even the french version (I don't have the volume 30 in the french translation) but if this is correct, Karasu means crow, so if the BO real name contains the word "Crow" it will reveals that the Boss is surely Karasuma.

And we all know that the goal of the BO is related to immortality, we can suppose that Karasuma faked his death and take something which save him from death, which make him look younger, and he maybe take a new identity under his new appearance. And maybe he is searching a way to be immortal since his faked death, fifty years ago (cf : what said Haibara in volume 20).

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Sorry for the link, but I have not the english version, so i wanted to put a picture.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Sorry for the link, but I have not the english version, so i wanted to put a picture.

This picture?

Spoiler:

Knightus redid that page and the next page.



No I don't think this guy is the boss because he built a gold plated mansion. Such a flashy and ostentatious display of wealth doesn't match an overly cautious boss running a secret Organization. Wouldn't the boss rather use that gold as money for research instead of having to get a together teams of assassins, blackmailers, and criminals to earn money?

[Shinichi Edogawa]

Exactly! Thank you

In fact the mansion is not discreet but maybe Karasuma was not very cautious at this time, before he was close to death, if he create the BO after his supposed death, the house is useless because he left it. Or maybe his the mentor of the BO, he creates the black organisation and anokata takes his place after karasuma's death.

[Shinichi Edogawa]

But for me, for all the theories about anokata, this is the more plausible because there is a significant number of clues in a single case (but I heard that maybe his name appears in the mermaid case...but I didn't read this theory).

[makoto]

in french renya's name appear a few time in volume 30

[Pmofmalasia]

What do you mean by the English version, the Viz version or the fansubbed one? Could be important.

According to episode 219, Karasuma died at the age of 99, about forty years ago. And there is no mention of the Crow Association.

Could he have taken APTX and people just thought that he died?

Did APTX even exist back then? Even then, why would anyone as important as the boss risk taking taking an unfinished prototype drug which does such a good job of killing people that the Black Org currently uses it for assassination?

I probably should have clarified, not necessarily APTX in today's form, but possibly the same thing that keeps Vermouth young (which doesn't seem to be the same APTX either). And since he was so old, it wouldn't be that far fetched for him to try something experimental anyway, since he'd be dying soon regardless. Either way, you're right with your other point that building a mansion of gold doesn't sound like the boss has been described previously, so it's probably not him.

[dcfan01]

Sorry for the link, but I have not the english version, so i wanted to put a picture.

This picture?

Spoiler:

Knightus redid that page and the next page.



No I don't think this guy is the boss because he built a gold plated mansion. Such a flashy and ostentatious display of wealth doesn't match an overly cautious boss running a secret Organization. Wouldn't the boss rather use that gold as money for research instead of having to get a together teams of assassins, blackmailers, and criminals to earn money?

I actually think thats a weak argument, even if it doesnt fit the boss's personality, being a millionaire and having a huge mansion is the only way i can picture the leader of such an organization

There are other points, that combined make a prety good case:
1- We know that the BO is involved in cases of blackmail and robery, which have the only purpose of raising money..
This means that the BO needs that money, to support its scientists, and investigations..
Now, I'm not saying that the boss can't have a luxurious lifestyle.. I don't think anyone imagines Anokata living in a 2 bedroom apartment.. but a mansion built out of gold is overdoing it.
That alone would be irrational thinking, which collides directly with the overly cautious personality that Vermouth described..
But that's not all.. after building his golden mansion, he faked his death, and he let other people buy it.. and not just any normal person, a very famous detective.. the one who was interested in the secrets of that mansion, and what happened 40 years ago.

2- We have seen to what extent they go just to cover their tracks.. It would be natural for the boss to eliminate any possible connection between his past life and his current one..
It would be completely unacceptable for him to let a detective buy his old house, which is one of the only things that may connect him with his old self.. We are talking about a detective that in order to find the hidden treasure, he would look into everything related to the previous owner..

3- Even if the mansion was built out of gold, only Karasuma knew of this fact.. which means that it wasn't something to brag about, but rather a treasure that only he knew existed.. it is obvious that this mansion was something precious to him and it was for him alone..
From this point of view, letting someone else have this house would be out of character for anyone, let alone the BO boss.
It would be like Gin sellig his Porsche to Akai, at a very low price..

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

There are other points, that combined make a prety good case:
1- We know that the BO is involved in cases of blackmail and robery, which have the only purpose of raising money..
This means that the BO needs that money, to support its scientists, and investigations..
Now, I'm not saying that the boss can't have a luxurious lifestyle.. I don't think anyone imagines Anokata living in a 2 bedroom apartment.. but a mansion built out of gold is overdoing it.
That alone would be irrational thinking, which collides directly with the overly cautious personality that Vermouth described..
But that's not all.. after building his golden mansion, he faked his death, and he let other people buy it.. and not just any normal person, a very famous detective.. the one who was interested in the secrets of that mansion, and what happened 40 years ago.

2- We have seen to what extent they go just to cover their tracks.. It would be natural for the boss to eliminate any possible connection between his past life and his current one..
It would be completely unacceptable for him to let a detective buy his old house, which is one of the only things that may connect him with his old self.. We are talking about a detective that in order to find the hidden treasure, he would look into everything related to the previous owner..

3- Even if the mansion was built out of gold, only Karasuma knew of this fact.. which means that it wasn't something to brag about, but rather a treasure that only he knew existed.. it is obvious that this mansion was something precious to him and it was for him alone..
From this point of view, letting someone else have this house would be out of character for anyone, let alone the BO boss.
It would be like Gin sellig his Porsche to Akai, at a very low price..

I'll be borrowing these arguments....

[Pmofmalasia]

While you're updating that page, Chek, didn't Gosho also say it wasn't Yuusaku?

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

While you're updating that page, Chek, didn't Gosho also say it wasn't Yuusaku?

I haven't heard that one before. Maybe Gosho did say it, but I haven't seen it in an interview that I recall.

[Tenryu]

While Karasuma maybe be not the boss, I have a feeling that the crow association is somehow connected to the BO.
I mean... Black/Crow is like a symbol for BO, while would Gosho suddenly use it if it doesn't related in any way?