What is bothering me for a long time...

[Kor]

By the way, am I the only one who thinks Yoko looked a little like Eri with glasses on?

didn't you know? After he failed with his wife, Kogoro is going after his wife's unlegal sister who became a famous actress  ;D

Oh, geez... I wrote a novel AGAIN.

some of us are really writing novels here, and 1600 words are FAR from being a novel...maybe a short story...a really short story 

[texascoffeegirl]

But Akai and Jodie were watching Vermouth for quite some time. Actually, Vermouth was watched by the FBI for more than two decades (Jodi's father). That's why Sharon Vineyard most likely faked her own death. No, Akai isn't after Vermouth nor Gin, cause he had several possibilities to take both out (ever asked why didn't kill/hurt them so cant run away Gin or Vermouth when he could have?) Because by killing or arresting both Vermouth or Gin, the FBI would loose their only connection to the person who is all behind this - or at least to the person, who is very close to the Big Boss.
Akai is definitely Gin's opponent and yes he has an open bill with Vermouth back from New York, but the aim above all is to take out the oganization - the boss, who is right now untouchable by the FBI. Akai's and Jodie's target was somebody else. Somebody who never showed up.

[texascoffeegirl]

some of us are really writing novels here, and 1600 words are FAR from being a novel...maybe a short story...a really short story 

Now I feel less like a freak 

[Kor]

But Akai and Jodie were watching Vermouth for quite some time. Actually, Vermouth was watched by the FBI for more than two decades (Jodi's father). That's why Sharon Vineyard most likely faked her own death. No, Akai isn't after Vermouth nor Gin, cause he had several possibilities to take both out (ever asked why didn't kill/hurt them so cant run away Gin or Vermouth when he could have?) Because by killing or arresting both Vermouth or Gin, the FBI would loose their only connection to the person who is all behind this - or at least to the person, who is very close to the Big Boss.
Akai is definitely Gin's opponent and yes he has an open bill with Vermouth back from New York, but the aim above all is to take out the oganization - the boss, who is right now untouchable by the FBI. Akai's and Jodie's target was somebody else. Somebody who never showed up.

nah Gin is the most important one. The boss thing is just one of those things that Gosho forgets of along way.  ;D

Shinichi: Finally we got Gin and the organization is dead.
Haibara: so they got the boss?
Shinichi: boss? what boss?
Haibara: the boss of the organization
Shinichi: They didn't have a boss. where are you getting this from?
Haibara: Don't you have his mail address?
Shinichi: I have no idea what you're talking about. By the way Haibara, what did your mother say to you in the tapes?
Haibara: what tapes?

[Abs.]

Arguments re: "target"

During the bus hijacking, (it is revealed later that) both Akai and Jodie knew Vermouth was Araide.
They should have also known that Vermouth was after Sherry.
They didn't know that Sherry shrank, but they were suspicious of Vermouth's age.

It could be taken that the "target" was Vermouth's target.  That is to say, Sherry.
However, BOTH Akai and Jodie were on that bus.  Akai felt it was necessary to risk revealing himself.
What kind of intelligence could they have gotten regarding Vermouth's target (Sherry) that would have been solid and convincing enough to necessitate that?
Nothing.  No one knew at that point that Haibara was Sherry.  Jodie obviously didn't know until later, when she saw Haibara, sick, in Agasa's car.

It could be taken that the "target" was Vermouth herself.  The words that Akai said into the recorder were, "The target didn't appear/The target didn't reveal him/herself."
What would have made the FBI think she would reveal herself?
Nothing.

In Vol. 29 chap. 5 page 18, after the bus-hijacking-case, Akai states that their target didn't show up, although Vermouth was right in front of them. Vermouth aka Araide was supposed to meet somebody in the bus who didn't show up because of the hijack. Who is that other person, Akai and Jodie were waiting for? Is it Gin or the 'girlfriend', Akai mentioned to James Black? I mean, they (Akai and Jodie) expected the target to show up, that means it rules Sherry as the target completely out, cause at this time, they had no idea where Sherry is. Akai most likely got a tip, that the target will show up there.

We have already taken care of the translation of "koibito/shukuteki"

Doubt the "target" was Gin.  Gin won't lead them anywhere, and it would be dangerous for the innocent civilians on the bus if Gin caught wind of what they were doing.

The door is wide open for the "target" to be a yet-unknown-to-us/unconfirmed-to-the-FBI B.O. member. 
They would be able to link that person to Vermouth, and have that person investigated and watched. 
It would be possible, if Akai still had some sort of inside information, to learn of this planned meeting between Vermouth and the unknown B.O. member.
The FBI's plan was probably to have Jodie meet the person as well (while tagging along with Araide), and Akai would be observing the whole ordeal 1) for him to have eyes-on and make his own determination, and 2) for back-up.

I'm not agreeing that Okino Yoko was the expected target.  Unless she knows how to disguise as well (which would be pushing it - you can only have so many people that know how to do perfect disguises before your story falls apart) it would be unfeasible on both the B.O.'s part and the FBI's part.  You can't bring an undisguised famous actress onto a bus in her own country and not expect her to be mobbed.

So, who was it?

[TheBlind]

Well, lets go a step further. When Akai arrived in Japan in Vol. 32 chap. XX and the following, he says he wants to make his girlfriend who dumped him cry (with tears of blood). Yeah I know, the infamous quote, that was taking apart by fans thousands of times.

That 'girlfriend' , he is talking about, is most likely not Akemi – who is 1. dead for a year now and 2. they ended the contact in the first place to not harm her. The 'girlfriend' is somebody else than Akemi. 

The girlfriend/most beloved one is meant for the Black Organization. Akai was part of the Org. as Rye but when he was going to get promoted to the higher ranks, Camel accidentally ruined the meeting. After this the B.O. "dumped" him as they figured him to be FBI thanks to Camel. Which explains his words. Some people also interpret it as him talking about Gin, as if memory serves, Rye was partners with Gin(I'm not sure about this, always going from memory has its drawbacks).

In Vol. 29 chap. 5 page 18, after the bus-hijacking-case, Akai states that their target didn't show up, although Vermouth was right in front of them. Vermouth aka Araide was supposed to meet somebody in the bus who didn't show up because of the hijack. Who is that other person, Akai and Jodie were waiting for? Is it Gin or the 'girlfriend', Akai mentioned to James Black? I mean, they (Akai and Jodie) expected the target to show up, that means it rules Sherry as the target completely out, cause at this time, they had no idea where Sherry is. Akai most likely got a tip, that the target will show up there. And what about chap. 677, where Jodie has a flashback of Akai telling her that he loves two woman at the same time. Well, many people assume, that the other woman is Jodie, since she seems to have some feelings for Akai too, but than again that other woman could be the so said 'girlfriend', who dumped him.

This is a good one but I believe the target was indeed Sherry. Vermouth was aware that Jodie was FBI and setup multiple events to get a head count on the agents. She most likely dropped some hint that she was meeting someone on that bus which Jodie picked up from her bugs and assume it to be Sherry, the girl marked with an X on Vermouth's wall(which Jodie saw). Vermouth said herself that she left a trail of crumbs to get the attention of the FBI for two reasons. The first was to control the information flow by making them to pay attention to the obvious lead, The Mouri Detective Agency. By doing that she could get information about their movements and an estimate on how many agents where in Japan. The second was to use the FBI for her benefit. By letting Jodie think she had the upper hand with the bugs and break in, she could get them to look for Sherry for her. Vermouth always had the advantage, which is why she dismantled an elaborate FBI trap against her so easily.

As for Akai and Jodie. They obviously took the bait and planned on using the bus to enclose Vermouth and take Sherry into custody as a witness. Vermouth's ability of disguise would be rendered useless in a closed environment and by Jodie placing herself next to Vermouth, she could prevent a gun from being drawn and causing casualties.  But of course the gunmen ruined the whole plan as they made the bus get off its usual route and Akai/Jodie assumed that to be the reason as to why Sherry didn't appear. My interpretation.

Akai came from the US to look for this 'girlfriend', or so he stated. We can assume, that this 'girlfriend' (which can be just a metaphor for his female enemy?) was at some point in the US and than took off to Japan, where Akai followed her later. It was 2 years ago in the story line, when Akemi and Akai broke up. A year ago, at the “golden apple case', Akai was still in New York. Could Akai have another girlfriend there? I mean within the two years after he broke up with Akemi and while he was in the US? Possible. Possibly in New York. Do we know somebody, a woman around Akemi's age, beautiful, kind of innocent but yet strong (quote Ran, Vol. 1 chapt. 9 page12: “She's so strong, already back on her feet after what happened to her!â€

[Abs.]

This is a good one but I believe the target was indeed Sherry. Vermouth was aware that Jodie was FBI and setup multiple events to get a head count on the agents. She most likely dropped some hint that she was meeting someone on that bus which Jodie picked up from her bugs and assume it to be Sherry, the girl marked with an X on Vermouth's wall(which Jodie saw). Vermouth said herself that she left a trail of crumbs to get the attention of the FBI for two reasons. The first was to control the information flow by making them to pay attention to the obvious lead, The Mouri Detective Agency. By doing that she could get information about their movements and an estimate on how many agents where in Japan. The second was to use the FBI for her benefit. By letting Jodie think she had the upper hand with the bugs and break in, she could get them to look for Sherry for her. Vermouth always had the advantage, which is why she dismantled an elaborate FBI trap against her so easily.

Ok, I like that argument.

[texascoffeegirl]

It could be taken that the "target" was Vermouth's target.  That is to say, Sherry.
However, BOTH Akai and Jodie were on that bus.  Akai felt it was necessary to risk revealing himself.

I might go with that one. Vol. 27 chap. 9 page 18, Jodie speaks of targets, plural, one was in reference to Vermouth. I read the English Mangas, but turned every now and then back to the official German DC Mangas, cause they didn't seem to be all too messed up regarding the translation. At least, they mostly got the he/she/'that person' problem right. The official German translation is 'girlfriend' not enemy, however it wouldn't be the first time something was wrongly translated.
But, if girlfriend is/can be translated with enemy, how does James Black's conversation fit in there? Or is there an alternative translation?
Well, I can see how 'girlfriend/enemy' can be related to Vermouth since Gin stated in Vol. 42 chap. 10 page 17, that Vermouth almost killed Akai back than in New York.

The reason, why I thought that neither Vermouth nor Sherry were the targets was because of this:
chap. 434 page 13 Akai: “... with that woman escaped, no one will probably believe the truth even if you tell them and favoritism wont come out of this in the end...â€

[texascoffeegirl]

Can this be possible? Yoko went to High School in Japan and was working on her career from that point on. I don't think she would leave Japan, especially if she was part of the singing group...that wore the goofy outfits. So it seems that there isn't enough time in Yoko's life to make everything fit but I agree that Yoko could be more than what she claims. The Boss or Akai's girlfriend...I don't really think so, but Kir's CIA contact or hidden member of the B.O. is possible.

A few months is all they need  , but like I said, don't take me toooo serious on that one 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Edited again to add: I WANT CHEKHOV IN THIS THREAD AND I WANT HER NOW!

Seems like I am really really late in finding this thread... Sorry about that.
In regards to Yoko Okino, yes you bring up several valid points. The cigarette thing is quite interesting. I never noticed it. I'm impressed with your observational skills.

For a while I did think Yoko Okino was suspicious, but one thing that changed my mind was that she encouraged Hidemi to meet with Kogoro about the "ding dong dash" case. The other members of the Organization thought it was overboard and ridiculous to invite a detective over to solve the case. If Yoko was with them, she probably wouldn't want Kir to meet with him if she could avoid it.

Perhaps Yoko Okino was originally intended to be part of the Organization, perhaps taking a role similar to Vermouth's, but as the story ran longer than expected -Gosho only thought it would run for three months- he reorganized the characters into other roles to allow for a more in depth storyline and Yoko Okino "lost" her Organization status.

Edit: Or the cigarette thing could be a Chekhov's gun waiting to go off... Maybe Yoko Okino is close friends with Vermouth who got her the lighter so she could use it when she visits? /*grasping at straws*/

Edit Edit:

The biggest one is...why is Gin so faithful to Yoko? *imagines Gin singing Yoko's songs in his car in a stupid way* Gin is her biggest fan as it seems  ;D

Spoiler:

Edit Edit Edit:

So, could some one please, who is Japanese or knows good Japanese, study her name, meaning, the way it is written and read, try to play with the name, rearrange it, try different form..... I do not know what else, anything that is used in DC.

Okino Yoko is almost certainly named after Ono Yoko. She was a japanese amercian singer who married John Lennon.

Edit Edit Edit Edit: Re: the target, I agree with the others above that Akai was referring to Sherry at that moment.  

Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit: texascoffeegirl, I'm a little confused about what you are hypothesizing about a Yoko Akai connection. Could you clarify?

Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit: I have a strange theory. Akai and Gin were originally the same character, who then split apart when Gosho thought of two separate storylines for them. They look and act so similarly because they were originally one person before Gosho separated them for the storyline's sake. If this is the case, I wonder if Gin's backstory will be similar to Akai's?

Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit: If I missed something, please let me know....

Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit Edit: Holy post modification, Batman! That's a lot of edits.

[texascoffeegirl]

Why would Yoko Okino want Rena close to Kogoro?

Remember, what Vermouth said, when she stole Kogoro's police reports to lure the FBI agents out, that this was one of her reasons to do it? The other reason was most likely Kogoro Mouri himself (and in Vermouth's solely interest Conan) in order to figure out in how many other BO cases he was already invloved.

And then there is Rena, whose loyalty to the BO was questioned in the past. And maybe it was questioned again - especially with Eisuke running around and doing his own investigation. Maybe she was purposely put in Kogoro Mouri's action radius, just to see how much worth she is as a BOmember and whether a guy like Kogoro who has his little experience with the BO, can figure her out.

Or Yoko is just a very nice person  ;D (remember, Vermouth said they can be both, good and bad) and knew of Eisuke running around asking questions about Rena. By making it public - meaning, she made Rena meet Kogoro in the TV cafeteria - she made sure, that Eisuke follows the lead and runs into Kogoro, who is close to the FBI. The result was, that, in the long run, Eisuke was taken out of the picture and saved from being killed by the BO.

Nah, it is just an idea and I wouldn't even bet my next cup of coffee on it. However, if Yoko is a BO member, she may be an independant member like Bourbon.

PS: give me a moment, i try to put the Akai-Okino connection in other words... but than again, it really is just a vage thought 

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

Rena wanted to meet with Kogoro because she wanted him to protect Eisuke. She talked about it in Volume 58 chapter 604: Older sister and younger brother. In the ding dong dash case, it was made clear that the Org members thought inviting Kogoro over for a case like that was "ridiculous". What I am saying is that if Yoko was an operative, she might not have encouraged Rena to meet Kogoro. The B.O. also don't know about Eisuke's relation to Rena. If they did, that would be bad because Eisuke goes by his true last name of Hondou and the Syndicate already knows that Rena's father -they don't know he is her father though- was a spy named Hondou. Rena was trying to keep Eisuke from meeting her so the B.O. would not notice him.

[Abs.]

[quote="texascoffeegirl"]
The reason, why I thought that neither Vermouth nor Sherry were the targets was because of this:
chap. 434 page 13 Akai: “... with that woman escaped, no one will probably believe the truth even if you tell them and favoritism wont come out of this in the end...â€

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

[quote="Abs."]A painfully literal translation:

「ã

[Abs.]

I'm taking it to mean Akai was hoping for or expecting someone else, someone that would decisively break the case for them, to show up.

So does that mean Akai knew it was a trap?

And didn't warn Jodie?

The whole setup of that scene, with Akai showing up "to save the day," is strange upon careful examination.

-Calvados being able to commit suicide with a firearm that Akai missed confiscating from him is extremely suspicious:
1) Akai missed finding a gun on someone?  Akai isn't some dumb grunt.
2) Calvados had two broken legs.  He was surely going to get captured by the FBI and be interrogated.  I get that.  He was loyal to the Organization and decided to not give the FBI anything at all.  I get that.  Was his pistol loaded with just one round?  Why didn't he at least try to kill Akai or Jodie, or even Sherry, first?  If the distance was too far, he could have waited for Akai or Jodie to come and haul him in, and then pull the gun.  He could have counted on getting killed by their return fire, or waited to commit suicide with his last shot.

-Vermouth, pretty much cornered, decides to try to kill Jodie anyway, even though Akai is sure to be able to head her off.  Why didn't she try to kill Akai?

-Why did Akai walk up conspicuously and deliberately to where Jodie and Vermouth were, and not take a sneak-shot, or pin Vermouth down from another direction?

-Why didn't Akai hit Vermouth's legs if he knew she had a bulletproof vest on?

-Without prompt, the Boss mails Vermouth immediately after the botched operation, telling her to return to his/her side.  How did he/she know it went sour?  Where was he/she?  Was someone else actually there to relay this information to the Boss?

---Or was it Calvados that notified the Boss?  Akai missed a gun, AND a cellphone?  Gee, Akai must have failed FBI Academy.






I don't know what Akai's game is or was, but he seems to enjoy letting the B.O. members get away as much as he loves battling them.