Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
Wakita Kanenori probably isn't a member of the Black Organisation, much less Rum. Whenever he implicitly called Rum weak, that was a strong indication; a lesser agent would not call the Boss's right hand man, a shadowy figure shrouded in mystery, weak. Rather, what he said implies that he's an enemy of the BO who has a grudge/rivalry against Rum. This much has already been pointed out by other people here.
There's no reason for Rum, or any other BO agent for that matter, to become Kogoro's apprentice; Bourbon's already in that role, so they already have an inside man for the purpose of spying on (or perhaps assassinating) Kogoro. There's no point in having two such people.
Rather, I suspect that Wakita's goal is to protect Kogoro from the Men in Black and perhaps Rum, since he knows that something big is about to happen.
Swagnarok wrote:Wakita Kanenori probably isn't a member of the Black Organisation, much less Rum. Whenever he implicitly called Rum weak, that was a strong indication; a lesser agent would not call the Boss's right hand man, a shadowy figure shrouded in mystery, weak.
The boss already knows of Kogoro's past-involvement with a BO member(Kir) and would value Gin's new suspicion of Kogoro. Therefore, it's not a stretch for the boss to activate his closest subordinate, Wakita, to verify Gin's suspicion and eliminate the potential threat.
...
Swagnarok wrote:There's no reason for Rum, or any other BO agent for that matter, to become Kogoro's apprentice; Bourbon's already in that role, so they already have an inside man for the purpose of spying on (or perhaps assassinating) Kogoro. There's no point in having two such people.
DCUniverseAficionado wrote:Yeah, back in File 818/Episode 701, Vermouth refers to Bourbon's source of info as just a "3rd party." She didn't specify. If the BO knows he's still at Poirot (or knew in the first place), it hasn't been revealed to us.
P.S... Not necessary to use spoiler box here(unless it's actual manga spoilers).
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common'' Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman'' Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...'' Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself'' Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
The first time I read RUM in Detective Conan I just though in Real User Moniroting
It may just be a wink from Gosho impliying that is the BO member who has a strict control over all the rest.
I don´t know why there is all this stuff of his artificial eye and appearences. It doesn´t make much sense, and we can only take Haibara´s words. I´m not calling her a liar but...we don´t really know much more about her motivations, she wouldn´t let Conan call the Boss number either...
Spoiler:
eal user monitoring (RUM) is a passive monitoring technology that records all user interaction with a website or client interacting with a server or cloud-based application.[1] Monitoring actual user interaction with a website or an application is important to operators to determine if users are being served quickly and without errors and, if not, which part of a business process is failing.[2] Software as a service (SaaS) and application service providers (ASP) use RUM to monitor and manage service quality delivered to their clients. Real user monitoring data is used to determine the actual service-level quality delivered to end-users and to detect errors or slowdowns on web sites.[3] The data may also be used to determine if changes that are promulgated to sites have the intended effect or cause errors.
Organizations also use RUM to test website or application changes prior to deployment by monitoring for errors or slowdowns in the pre-deployment phase. They may also use it to test changes within the production environment, or to anticipate behavioural changes in a website or application. For example, a website may add an area where users could congregate before moving forward in a group (for example, test-takers that log into a website individually over a period of twenty minutes and that then simultaneously begin taking a test), this is called rendezvous in test environments. Changes to websites such as these can be tested with RUM. As technology shifts more and more to hybrid environments like cloud, fat clients, widgets, and apps, it becomes more and more important to monitor from within the client itself.
I was thinking in RUM as an informatic program that monitorizes all the BO moves, including Vermouth ones.
Maybe RUM is part of that Itakura weird project. I mean, RUM might had a terrible accident years ago and now he depends of a computer.
We know that a computer can emulate many voices, feminine ones, old ones...and can perform a reality manipulation.
He could be like Stephen Hawking , really intelligent but unable to serve the boss like Gin does. I mean, actually, Gin could had promoted after Rum´s accident.
I still find weid why Rum apparead in movie 20 like that, really weird.
It´s a crazy theory but still, I don´t know why Gosho hasn´t given us any solid stuff about Rum yet, but if Rum is the nº2 I think he would be relyable to the boss if he is in a difficult position, he must have some important related links to the boss too.
Of course, your Wakita theory is smart and I think would make him a really cool and weird villain.
Absenta wrote:The first time I read RUM in Detective Conan I just though in Real User Moniroting
It may just be a wink from Gosho impliying that is the BO member who has a strict control over all the rest.
I don´t know why there is all this stuff of his artificial eye and appearences. It doesn´t make much sense, and we can only take Haibara´s words. I´m not calling her a liar but...we don´t really know much more about her motivations, she wouldn´t let Conan call the Boss number either...
Spoiler:
eal user monitoring (RUM) is a passive monitoring technology that records all user interaction with a website or client interacting with a server or cloud-based application.[1] Monitoring actual user interaction with a website or an application is important to operators to determine if users are being served quickly and without errors and, if not, which part of a business process is failing.[2] Software as a service (SaaS) and application service providers (ASP) use RUM to monitor and manage service quality delivered to their clients. Real user monitoring data is used to determine the actual service-level quality delivered to end-users and to detect errors or slowdowns on web sites.[3] The data may also be used to determine if changes that are promulgated to sites have the intended effect or cause errors.
Organizations also use RUM to test website or application changes prior to deployment by monitoring for errors or slowdowns in the pre-deployment phase. They may also use it to test changes within the production environment, or to anticipate behavioural changes in a website or application. For example, a website may add an area where users could congregate before moving forward in a group (for example, test-takers that log into a website individually over a period of twenty minutes and that then simultaneously begin taking a test), this is called rendezvous in test environments. Changes to websites such as these can be tested with RUM. As technology shifts more and more to hybrid environments like cloud, fat clients, widgets, and apps, it becomes more and more important to monitor from within the client itself.
I was thinking in RUM as an informatic program that monitorizes all the BO moves, including Vermouth ones.
Maybe RUM is part of that Itakura weird project. I mean, RUM might had a terrible accident years ago and now he depends of a computer.
We know that a computer can emulate many voices, feminine ones, old ones...and can perform a reality manipulation.
He could be like Stephen Hawking , really intelligent but unable to serve the boss like Gin does. I mean, actually, Gin could had promoted after Rum´s accident.
I still find weid why Rum apparead in movie 20 like that, really weird.
It´s a crazy theory but still, I don´t know why Gosho hasn´t given us any solid stuff about Rum yet, but if Rum is the nº2 I think he would be relyable to the boss if he is in a difficult position, he must have some important related links to the boss too.
Of course, your Wakita theory is smart and I think would make him a really cool and weird villain.
To be fair we need to actually know for what reason he's the #2. As in if the boss dies, he becomes the boss. I can't imagine anything other than trust and shared history.
Absenta wrote:The first time I read RUM in Detective Conan I just though in Real User Moniroting
It may just be a wink from Gosho impliying that is the BO member who has a strict control over all the rest.
I don´t know why there is all this stuff of his artificial eye and appearences. It doesn´t make much sense, and we can only take Haibara´s words. I´m not calling her a liar but...we don´t really know much more about her motivations, she wouldn´t let Conan call the Boss number either...
Spoiler:
eal user monitoring (RUM) is a passive monitoring technology that records all user interaction with a website or client interacting with a server or cloud-based application.[1] Monitoring actual user interaction with a website or an application is important to operators to determine if users are being served quickly and without errors and, if not, which part of a business process is failing.[2] Software as a service (SaaS) and application service providers (ASP) use RUM to monitor and manage service quality delivered to their clients. Real user monitoring data is used to determine the actual service-level quality delivered to end-users and to detect errors or slowdowns on web sites.[3] The data may also be used to determine if changes that are promulgated to sites have the intended effect or cause errors.
Organizations also use RUM to test website or application changes prior to deployment by monitoring for errors or slowdowns in the pre-deployment phase. They may also use it to test changes within the production environment, or to anticipate behavioural changes in a website or application. For example, a website may add an area where users could congregate before moving forward in a group (for example, test-takers that log into a website individually over a period of twenty minutes and that then simultaneously begin taking a test), this is called rendezvous in test environments. Changes to websites such as these can be tested with RUM. As technology shifts more and more to hybrid environments like cloud, fat clients, widgets, and apps, it becomes more and more important to monitor from within the client itself.
I was thinking in RUM as an informatic program that monitorizes all the BO moves, including Vermouth ones.
Maybe RUM is part of that Itakura weird project. I mean, RUM might had a terrible accident years ago and now he depends of a computer.
We know that a computer can emulate many voices, feminine ones, old ones...and can perform a reality manipulation. He could be like Stephen Hawking , really intelligent but unable to serve the boss like Gin does. I mean, actually, Gin could had promoted after Rum´s accident.
I still find weid why Rum apparead in movie 20 like that, really weird.
It´s a crazy theory but still, I don´t know why Gosho hasn´t given us any solid stuff about Rum yet, but if Rum is the nº2 I think he would be relyable to the boss if he is in a difficult position, he must have some important related links to the boss too.
Of course, your Wakita theory is smart and I think would make him a really cool and weird villain.
That's a VERY intriguing theory, since it does explain all the characteristical contradictions. It makes a lot of sense that "voice" could've played a huge role to all the different description, as well as why people would assume it's just Rum's doubles on the other side of the phone. Since everyone was in agreement that he had an artificial eye however, it means that he was seen(compared to the mysterious Boss). Unless there's a way to get an impression that someone has an artificial eye through sound, it would mean that the people had to have seen him for them to see the eye, and therefore shouldn't have had a problem seeing his true appearance.
The idea was quite clever still, since it would explain why Kir wrote his name in capital letters, and M20's abstract depiction of Rum might've not been completely abstract.
Rum is definitely someone who shares some level of history with the Boss, but the main reason for making him No.2 was probably his immense potential(hence why the boss bets so much on him). Going by my theory about Wakita's comment about Rum, it does tie well with your theory about him being in a frail condition.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common'' Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman'' Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...'' Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself'' Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
Absenta wrote:The first time I read RUM in Detective Conan I just though in Real User Moniroting
It may just be a wink from Gosho impliying that is the BO member who has a strict control over all the rest.
I don´t know why there is all this stuff of his artificial eye and appearences. It doesn´t make much sense, and we can only take Haibara´s words. I´m not calling her a liar but...we don´t really know much more about her motivations, she wouldn´t let Conan call the Boss number either...
Spoiler:
eal user monitoring (RUM) is a passive monitoring technology that records all user interaction with a website or client interacting with a server or cloud-based application.[1] Monitoring actual user interaction with a website or an application is important to operators to determine if users are being served quickly and without errors and, if not, which part of a business process is failing.[2] Software as a service (SaaS) and application service providers (ASP) use RUM to monitor and manage service quality delivered to their clients. Real user monitoring data is used to determine the actual service-level quality delivered to end-users and to detect errors or slowdowns on web sites.[3] The data may also be used to determine if changes that are promulgated to sites have the intended effect or cause errors.
Organizations also use RUM to test website or application changes prior to deployment by monitoring for errors or slowdowns in the pre-deployment phase. They may also use it to test changes within the production environment, or to anticipate behavioural changes in a website or application. For example, a website may add an area where users could congregate before moving forward in a group (for example, test-takers that log into a website individually over a period of twenty minutes and that then simultaneously begin taking a test), this is called rendezvous in test environments. Changes to websites such as these can be tested with RUM. As technology shifts more and more to hybrid environments like cloud, fat clients, widgets, and apps, it becomes more and more important to monitor from within the client itself.
I was thinking in RUM as an informatic program that monitorizes all the BO moves, including Vermouth ones.
Maybe RUM is part of that Itakura weird project. I mean, RUM might had a terrible accident years ago and now he depends of a computer.
We know that a computer can emulate many voices, feminine ones, old ones...and can perform a reality manipulation. He could be like Stephen Hawking , really intelligent but unable to serve the boss like Gin does. I mean, actually, Gin could had promoted after Rum´s accident.
I still find weid why Rum apparead in movie 20 like that, really weird.
It´s a crazy theory but still, I don´t know why Gosho hasn´t given us any solid stuff about Rum yet, but if Rum is the nº2 I think he would be relyable to the boss if he is in a difficult position, he must have some important related links to the boss too.
Of course, your Wakita theory is smart and I think would make him a really cool and weird villain.
That's a VERY intriguing theory, since it does explain all the characteristical contradictions. It makes a lot of sense that "voice" could've played a huge role to all the different description, as well as why people would assume it's just Rum's doubles on the other side of the phone. Since everyone was in agreement that he had an artificial eye however, it means that he was seen(compared to the mysterious Boss). Unless there's a way to get an impression that someone has an artificial eye through sound, it would mean that the people had to have seen him for them to see the eye, and therefore shouldn't have had a problem seeing his true appearance.
The idea was quite clever still, since it would explain why Kir wrote his name in capital letters, and M20's abstract depiction of Rum might've not been completely abstract.
Rum is definitely someone who shares some level of history with the Boss, but the main reason for making him No.2 was probably his immense potential(hence why the boss bets so much on him). Going by my theory about Wakita's comment about Rum, it does tie well with your theory about him being in a frail condition.
Maybe RUM´s artificial eye refeers to the eye that sees everything. Like the Big Brother Eye, or the eye of providence, I fint quite interesting this relation, since all egyptian mythology is about life and death.
The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is a symbol showing an eye often surrounded by rays of light or a glory and usually enclosed by a triangle. It represents the eye of God watching over mankind
– Eye of Horus
In one myth, when Set and Horus were fighting for the throne after Osiris's death, Set gouged out Horus's left eye. The majority of the eye was restored by either Hathor or Thoth (with the last portion possibly being supplied magically). When Horus's eye was recovered, he offered it to his father, Osiris, in hopes of restoring his life. Hence, the eye of Horus was often used to symbolise sacrifice, healing, restoration, and protection.
Absenta wrote:Maybe RUM´s artificial eye refeers to the eye that sees everything. Like the Big Brother Eye, or the eye of providence, I fint quite interesting this relation, since all egyptian mythology is about life and death.
The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is a symbol showing an eye often surrounded by rays of light or a glory and usually enclosed by a triangle. It represents the eye of God watching over mankind
– Eye of Horus
In one myth, when Set and Horus were fighting for the throne after Osiris's death, Set gouged out Horus's left eye. The majority of the eye was restored by either Hathor or Thoth (with the last portion possibly being supplied magically). When Horus's eye was recovered, he offered it to his father, Osiris, in hopes of restoring his life. Hence, the eye of Horus was often used to symbolise sacrifice, healing, restoration, and protection.
I do understand the symbolism you're getting at, but, in literal terms, what you describe would be a supernatural eye, not an artificial one.
“Life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generations, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
“Education never ends... it is a series of lessons, with the greatest for the last.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle, The Complete Adventures of Sherlock Holmes and His Last Bow
"I have decided to stick to love... hate is too great a burden to bear."
— Martin Luther King Jr. (A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr)
I mean I am not trying to ridicule your theory , but do you really think RUM's existence is something related to Egyptian mythology. I agree with the way RUM maybe someone controlled by an artificial intelligence.
And I don't think Gosho-sensei might have even thought about Rum that way .!
Allseeing eye, as in video and surveillance cameras everywhere? And the three descriptions refer to three operators of the system?
I'm getting Captain America: Winter Soldier wibes here...
The Eleventh Doctor wrote:Never ignore coincidence. Unless you are busy. Then always ignore the coincidence.
Haha I didn´t give further explanation for that symbolism! Of course DC has a semi-ficcional world that means thas has some sci-fi elements that could be reached somehow in humanity! Not magical myths here.
I just put that egyptian myth as a symbolism for narrative purposes.
I mean , some cases are explained by Conan or other characters with myths. Rum existence could be that way too. I mean, Gosho likes that kind of things. For example, when Haibara explains about Pandora´s Box and stuff like that.
The fact that Rum has an artificial eye ( if he really has one), has to be important inside the plot:
- Because of the accident RUM had , in which his eye was lost and had to replace it.
- Because the use that RUM could give to thar artificial eye.
The symbolism with the egyptyan eye or eye of Horus could lead that myth to Rum´s history and his relation with the boss!
The symbolism with the eye that sees everything means that RUM oversees other BO members, has an eye on everything, We don´t know how he access all this information, that´s why I think he could be a super-intelligent mind similar to a computer and if not, he could have informatic acces to many confidential files.
Maybe I´m giving too much importance to Rum´s MOVIE 20 apparition. But I mean, he actually appeared that way and not through mobile phone or shadow.
Vermouth says:
What are you doing here??? That just could emply that Rum doesn´t have a good movility to follow Vermouth.
Then Rum appears talking through a computer. But appears as a Big Brother eye moving meanwhile he talks. With tons of words circulating around Curacao, like an informatic programm. RUM says that Curacao has a great potential and to stay by his side. I have the theory that RUM likes weird members with some weird problems because he might have a terrible disease or he is depending of a machine or something. I mean , why Curacao was so favourite by him that much¿??? The scene implies that Curacao wasn´t working for Rum before that event, she was a plain member like Chianti or Korn, she failed and Vermouth was willing to erase her.
I've said this several times and I think this misconception arises from bad subs so I'll clear this part of M20 up here as well:
Curaçao didn't fail: she just happened to record facts inconvenient to the BO and thus Vermouth was going to execute her to avoid those secrets from leaking out.
Rum then appears and orders Vermouth to stop: it turns out he/she sees potential on her special brain and appoints her as his/her right-handed agent.
So Rum is overseeing things in some manner, maybe Vermouth had to ask for permission to execute Curaçao and thus he/she heard from the boss.
And this is also why Curaçao was sent to the NPA HQ: to use her brain's ability to memorize something on its whole without needing to write it down or carry a digital copy around: this way they would be able to get the NOC list without traces.
@spimer, If I am not wrong curacao wasn't using her Brain's ability, She had those contact lenses which were capturing the images and that is why she kept blinking all the time. If I am not wrong. And Yes, RUM stopped vermouth from killing curacao because he wanted to keep her and hence she was saved. I assume the boss had sent vermouth to kill her but RUM saved her.
