Discussion thread: Detective Conan 972-974

[eros1607]

Thing is, he doesn't trust them as much as Shuichi.

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Conan trust Shuichi because they are all Japanese, of course.
And FBI has not been dumbed down. They are like that after Vermouth Arc. Amuro has told FBI to leave his country. Maybe Japanese don't favor foreign agencies. And maybe Gosho doesn't want FBI to be more competent that Japanese Police Force. National pride in Japan is take very seriously.

[k11chi]

@kor
I mostly agree actually there are many other things to be added to this list , Gosho doesn't want to end this series anytime soon and just destroying his own plot , his plot isn't that big regarding the time it needs while he is trying so hard to extend the plot over the murder cases too much causing it to lose it's logic , if masumi needs conan help why she isn't trying much harder to reach him it's not a day or two we are in that for years , why conan didn't ask akai directly if she is his sister and what is she doing here and if they are really in contact or not other than rising up so many unnecessary questions for years .. most of the series mysteries now aren't mysteries they are just built on the characters lack of contact which is completely meaningless and became really bothering most of this mysteries will be solved if akai masumi mari haibara and conan reached each other and everyone told the others what he knows and then they try to think of the real problems and real enemies instead of wasting too much time thinking about each other while they are on the same side .
, for the series just a few months had passed but for readers it's 22 years that can not be neglected we still don't know what is the importance of role of most of the main characters till now also we can't give an answer if someone who know nothing about it asked what's conan plot other than him being a detective who shrank because we actually know nothing other than random pieces of puzzle and suspected hints for things ,the idea of DC very short timeline that gosho had been playing on for years to give logic to his story started to be unconvincing
most of conan fans are old or more accurate not kids they are the ones who grew up with conan and a high percent of them including me are more concerned about the plot rather than the murder cases it's not a simple murder case that we are waiting for the suspect to be revealed at the end.

I don't know why Conan doesn't trust FBI.

Thing is, he doesn't trust them as much as Shuichi.

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Characters in mystery series have their reasons for not sharing what's on their minds more often than not, that is normal.

Personally, I may mind it as little as you, but others wouldn't really consider this a good thing.

I'm still reading the final story of Hercule Poirot, a good golden age soft boiled series, and it has this particular type of writing. Considering how it's one of the most popular detective fiction series ever I find it hard to believe that too many would actually care. It's some weird type of bias born from overanalyzing Conan over here I believe.

[ATEM]

Masumi is far from a bad character and surely one of the fan favourites now.

Masumi isn't a bad character but the way gosho is handling the characters is bad , he created a character that is loved by fans but isn't giving her a role , why is masumi here what is her importance ??!
This goes for most or nearly all characters now , they have very small role extended over too much time making the whole thing too boring , since the clash of red and black most of mysteries are obvious and I don't know why they took that time akai is subara or shukichi is the middle brother masumi is akai's sister and mary is shrunken burboun is amuro,
wouldn't be much better if the plot moves faster and has more events and give those characters more chance to interact , why to have one page in the start of the series and one of at the end and sometimes one in the middle regarding the plot most of the times and they are wasted on conan thoughts who is sera who is Mary she said that could it be is he is she we even get rarely the thoughts of other characters and when it happens it's in some sort of cypher !!! We can have more frequent cases like the bell train ,the scarlet series, newyork or the silver bullet wherewe have more chance to see the interaction of the characters know more information and the plot moves on starting a new arc with new mysteries , except for very few chara. the personality, past , life style ,way of thinking are unknowns Gin is here from the first chapter and we know nothing about him other than killing .
Gosho's characters are really good and distinctive but the plot is really falling down .


For conan and shuichi not showing trust to each other is also meaningless , he trusted him with his live and conan believes in akai's mind and abilities ,the same goes foe haibara and conan .. I am not saying that people in such conditions would expose all thier cards that is impossible , but they should show each other some extent of trust when they are working together they are not having poor connection but no connection at all they were working together on kouji's death but neither one of them tried to help the other with information sure akai knows much more than conan and if he told him about what happened they may reach a solution , this is not related to trust because he already told him he joined the FBI because of this case but gosho is trying to make it mysterious and extends it to 3 or 4 more years which may end when akai sits with conan and tells him about his father which will be 2 weeks after in DC timeline not enough time for the trust !!!

[eros1607]

Masumi is far from a bad character and surely one of the fan favourites now.

Masumi isn't a bad character but the way gosho is handling the characters is bad , he created a character that is loved by fans but isn't giving her a role , why is masumi here what is her importance ??!
This goes for most or nearly all characters now , they have very small role extended over too much time making the whole thing too boring , since the clash of red and black most of mysteries are obvious and I don't know why they took that time akai is subara or shukichi is the middle brother masumi is akai's sister and mary is shrunken burboun is amuro,
wouldn't be much better if the plot moves faster and has more events and give those characters more chance to interact , why to have one page in the start of the series and one of at the end and sometimes one in the middle regarding the plot most of the times and they are wasted on conan thoughts who is sera who is Mary she said that could it be is he is she we even get rarely the thoughts of other characters and when it happens it's in some sort of cypher !!! We can have more frequent cases like the bell train ,the scarlet series, newyork or the silver bullet wherewe have more chance to see the interaction of the characters know more information and the plot moves on starting a new arc with new mysteries , except for very few chara. the personality, past , life style ,way of thinking are unknowns Gin is here from the first chapter and we know nothing about him other than killing .
Gosho's characters are really good and distinctive but the plot is really falling down

.

I think the plot has moved must faster than it usually is. The Akai family is just an interlude which plays as a transition from Bourbon arc to Rum arc. Rum arc has spanned in 75 files and we have had much more information than in Bourbon arc within the same mount of files.

For conan and shuichi not showing trust to each other is also meaningless , he trusted him with his live and conan believes in akai's mind and abilities ,the same goes foe haibara and conan .. I am not saying that people in such conditions would expose all thier cards that is impossible , but they should show each other some extent of trust when they are working together they are not having poor connection but no connection at all they were working together on kouji's death but neither one of them tried to help the other with information sure akai knows much more than conan and if he told him about what happened they may reach a solution , this is not related to trust because he already told him he joined the FBI because of this case but gosho is trying to make it mysterious and extends it to 3 or 4 more years which may end when akai sits with conan and tells him about his father which will be 2 weeks after in DC timeline not enough time for the trust !!!

As I said, the plot has moved way faster and Gosho is not young anymore. I don't think the Akai family arc will last that long.

[Themaninarmor]

I think there was a meaning about conan & akai relationship!?

In my opinion they are working together as partner to destroy BO but without involving their personal life...
Remember what Conan asking about Akai's father.... Even if Akai answer that question, it still not giving much information regarding BO, plus there were many mystery in his father dissapearance that he don't know yet... and for the reason why Conan stop asking about his father because Conan know.... no matter how much akai trust someone.. an agent never tell something about his private life to anyone... so don't expect they will exchange information easily. but i think Akai is trusting conan so much that he let his family to get close with Conan without fearing Conan will know too much about his family... but of course he still not giving the information by himself. So in my opinion, they didn't exchange information because they are not trusting each other, but because it is something they must protect.

(Oh somehow i remember what yusaku said when he know for the first time that his son is shrinking.... He said that he have a friends in interpol... And know i have thought that what he mean by friends is akai's father or he know akai's father but never meet him again for a long time... Wow... If that happens then maybe the world is indeed really small)

[k11chi]

Masumi is far from a bad character and surely one of the fan favourites now.

Masumi isn't a bad character but the way gosho is handling the characters is bad , he created a character that is loved by fans but isn't giving her a role , why is masumi here what is her importance ??!
This goes for most or nearly all characters now , they have very small role extended over too much time making the whole thing too boring , since the clash of red and black most of mysteries are obvious and I don't know why they took that time akai is subara or shukichi is the middle brother masumi is akai's sister and mary is shrunken burboun is amuro,
wouldn't be much better if the plot moves faster and has more events and give those characters more chance to interact , why to have one page in the start of the series and one of at the end and sometimes one in the middle regarding the plot most of the times and they are wasted on conan thoughts who is sera who is Mary she said that could it be is he is she we even get rarely the thoughts of other characters and when it happens it's in some sort of cypher !!! We can have more frequent cases like the bell train ,the scarlet series, newyork or the silver bullet wherewe have more chance to see the interaction of the characters know more information and the plot moves on starting a new arc with new mysteries , except for very few chara. the personality, past , life style ,way of thinking are unknowns Gin is here from the first chapter and we know nothing about him other than killing .
Gosho's characters are really good and distinctive but the plot is really falling down .


For conan and shuichi not showing trust to each other is also meaningless , he trusted him with his live and conan believes in akai's mind and abilities ,the same goes foe haibara and conan .. I am not saying that people in such conditions would expose all thier cards that is impossible , but they should show each other some extent of trust when they are working together they are not having poor connection but no connection at all they were working together on kouji's death but neither one of them tried to help the other with information sure akai knows much more than conan and if he told him about what happened they may reach a solution , this is not related to trust because he already told him he joined the FBI because of this case but gosho is trying to make it mysterious and extends it to 3 or 4 more years which may end when akai sits with conan and tells him about his father which will be 2 weeks after in DC timeline not enough time for the trust !!!

Well her importance is that she's related to Akai.
Also who are the mysteries obvious to? Internet theorists.. Shukichi being the second brother wasn't obvious here. I was making theories of that but people thought that it'd be Amuro at first. They're just mysteries you're supposed to be piecing together while buying the volumes and reading the cases.

About the cases, building a case in 45 pages in a weekly magazine doesn't sound like it'd have any space for any plot to begin with. You're basically asking Gosho to have slice of life chapters now.

[Kudo Shinchi]

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Eh, I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure how much textual support it has. True, the end of the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc cast a greater spotlight on Akai, but that's to be expected given that the Bourbon arc really was Akai's arc (it revolved around his faked death and its consequences, after all). Despite being grief-stricken by Akai's death, Jodie was just as competent as ever in her first major appearance in the Bourbon arc (the robbery case), where she lured one of the robbers to the bathroom, knocked him out, and freed herself. True she was subsequently captured again but that doesn't erase what she did before. The one major instance of the FBI being dumbed down was the Sakura Shrine case, where Jodie was indeed handed the Idiot Ball (you could try to explain it away by saying she wasn't thinking straight since she'd just discovered that the man she thought was her resurrected lover wasn't actually him and so her hopes had been dashed, but even that doesn't adequately justify the incompetence on display). But even in the much-maligned Scarlet Showdown we see that Jodie and Camel (the two main FBI representatives in the story) are still good at what they do. Jodie didn't rise to Amuro's bait even though it involved the near-fatal injury of her close friend and she figured out that Akai had faked his death almost entirely on her own. Camel, while not showing the same discipline (and this is an established part of his character since the Kir arc; he's prone to making hasty mistakes under pressure, which is how he got Akai exposed in the BO in the first place), saved his and Jodie's life through his driving skills, and enabled Akai to take out the secret police chasing them (Akai explicitly confirmed that he wouldn't be able to make the crucial shot unless Camel angled the car just right). Gosho set up Akai's return so that it showcased the capabilities of his colleagues (Jodie the smart detective, Camel the skilled driver) while still displaying his own (Akai the sharpshooter), thus achieving a delicate balance where neither overshadowed the other. In general Akai still has a narrative edge over his peers and at times he does feel like an author's pet, but that doesn't make everyone else in the FBI incompetent buffoons. They sometimes make mistakes, but so does the BO.

@ATEM I think you nailed it when you say Masumi isn't a bad character, it's just that she hasn't been utilized as well as she could have been. I personally love Masumi, I think she's a fun and vibrant character whose introduction injected a lot of life into the manga at a time when it was beginning to stagnate. Stuff like her moral code's divergence from the usually idealistic one held by DC's protagonists (see the Mouri Detective Agency hostage case, episodes 648-650) and her need to be constantly spunky/hyperactive to overcompensate for an overly serious brother (see episode 675) all add interesting dimensions to her character. She's fun as her own character. Where I think Gosho struggles is incorporating her meaningfully into the plot. She functioned as a Bourbon suspect during the Bourbon arc, but she ended up playing no role in either of the major confrontations that took place after her appearance (Mystery Train and Scarlet Showdown), which just goes to show that the Bourbon arc really was originally conceived and planned without Masumi's involvement, before Gosho tried to force her in at the request of his editors but ultimately couldn't find a way to organically include her. That seems to be why he decided to make her plotline part of the Rum arc's instead. However, Masumi's current relevancy to the plot consists of her connections to other characters, which somewhat undermines her original appearance as a strong independent detective with her own agenda. I like Shuukichi well enough as Yumi's ex-boy friend and I find Mary an enjoyable character, but the linking of those two with Masumi ends up hurting her, which is frustrating. Mary has a totally domineering personality, is rude and harsh to everyone, and clearly has a poor relationship with her children. Now, personally, I find that sort of dynamic fascinating, especially in terms of how it could explain Akai's personality. However, having Masumi tied to a character like Mary, and having her constantly depend on her middle brother Shuukichi, really only weakens the strong impression Masumi initially left on us the readers.

Basically, I like each of the new Akai characters on their own, but linked together as a family I'm not sure how effectively they work.

As for the ultimate point of the many years spent of Masumi and her family, we shall see I guess. I think it's premature to declare the entire plotline pointless without waiting until at least the conclusion of this flashback, where hopefully it'll become clear why any of this matters.

[jimmy_kud0_tv2]

Shukichi being the second brother wasn't obvious here.

People have pretty much unanimously said it was Shuukichi since his second appearance where Okiya and Mary learned of his winning. Even before that he was one of the leading suspects due to his name, his age, resemblance to Shuuichi, proximity of introduction to when the middle bro was introduced. Plus the "Kichi-nii" animal crossing hint. All of that was back in 2013 and 2014.

I tried to argue against it because I felt it was too obvious

[eros1607]

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Eh, I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure how much textual support it has. True, the end of the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc cast a greater spotlight on Akai, but that's to be expected given that the Bourbon arc really was Akai's arc (it revolved around his faked death and its consequences, after all). Despite being grief-stricken by Akai's death, Jodie was just as competent as ever in her first major appearance in the Bourbon arc (the robbery case), where she lured one of the robbers to the bathroom, knocked him out, and freed herself. True she was subsequently captured again but that doesn't erase what she did before. The one major instance of the FBI being dumbed down was the Sakura Shrine case, where Jodie was indeed handed the Idiot Ball (you could try to explain it away by saying she wasn't thinking straight since she'd just discovered that the man she thought was her resurrected lover wasn't actually him and so her hopes had been dashed, but even that doesn't adequately justify the incompetence on display). But even in the much-maligned Scarlet Showdown we see that Jodie and Camel (the two main FBI representatives in the story) are still good at what they do. Jodie didn't rise to Amuro's bait even though it involved the near-fatal injury of her close friend and she figured out that Akai had faked his death almost entirely on her own. Camel, while not showing the same discipline (and this is an established part of his character since the Kir arc; he's prone to making hasty mistakes under pressure, which is how he got Akai exposed in the BO in the first place), saved his and Jodie's life through his driving skills, and enabled Akai to take out the secret police chasing them (Akai explicitly confirmed that he wouldn't be able to make the crucial shot unless Camel angled the car just right). Gosho set up Akai's return so that it showcased the capabilities of his colleagues (Jodie the smart detective, Camel the skilled driver) while still displaying his own (Akai the sharpshooter), thus achieving a delicate balance where neither overshadowed the other. In general Akai still has a narrative edge over his peers and at times he does feel like an author's pet, but that doesn't make everyone else in the FBI incompetent buffoons. They sometimes make mistakes, but so does the BO.

@ATEM I think you nailed it when you say Masumi isn't a bad character, it's just that she hasn't been utilized as well as she could have been. I personally love Masumi, I think she's a fun and vibrant character whose introduction injected a lot of life into the manga at a time when it was beginning to stagnate. Stuff like her moral code's divergence from the usually idealistic one held by DC's protagonists (see the Mouri Detective Agency hostage case, episodes 648-650) and her need to be constantly spunky/hyperactive to overcompensate for an overly serious brother (see episode 675) all add interesting dimensions to her character. She's fun as her own character. Where I think Gosho struggles is incorporating her meaningfully into the plot. She functioned as a Bourbon suspect during the Bourbon arc, but she ended up playing no role in either of the major confrontations that took place after her appearance (Mystery Train and Scarlet Showdown), which just goes to show that the Bourbon arc really was originally conceived and planned without Masumi's involvement, before Gosho tried to force her in at the request of his editors but ultimately couldn't find a way to organically include her. That seems to be why he decided to make her plotline part of the Rum arc's instead. However, Masumi's current relevancy to the plot consists of her connections to other characters, which somewhat undermines her original appearance as a strong independent detective with her own agenda. I like Shuukichi well enough as Yumi's ex-boy friend and I find Mary an enjoyable character, but the linking of those two with Masumi ends up hurting her, which is frustrating. Mary has a totally domineering personality, is rude and harsh to everyone, and clearly has a poor relationship with her children. Now, personally, I find that sort of dynamic fascinating, especially in terms of how it could explain Akai's personality. However, having Masumi tied to a character like Mary, and having her constantly depend on her middle brother Shuukichi, really only weakens the strong impression Masumi initially left on us the readers.

Basically, I like each of the new Akai characters on their own, but linked together as a family I'm not sure how effectively they work.

As for the ultimate point of the many years spent of Masumi and her family, we shall see I guess. I think it's premature to declare the entire plotline pointless without waiting until at least the conclusion of this flashback, where hopefully it'll become clear why any of this matters.

We can see Gosho is not good in portraying key female characters. Ran is doing literally nothing these days. Vermouth is confusing and less intimidating. Sera is... time will tell. At least Haibara is still an extremely source of information (Rum, Haneda Kohji...) but Gosho will not let involve yet.

[k11chi]

Shukichi being the second brother wasn't obvious here.

People have pretty much unanimously said it was Shuukichi since his second appearance where Okiya and Mary learned of his winning. Even before that he was one of the leading suspects due to his name, his age, resemblance to Shuuichi, proximity of introduction to when the middle bro was introduced. Plus the "Kichi-nii" animal crossing hint. All of that was back in 2013 and 2014.

I tried to argue against it because I felt it was too obvious

You must be remembering something wrong because it was pretty gradually spreading even up until the Mystery Train.

[DCUniverseAficionado]

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Eh, I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure how much textual support it has. True, the end of the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc cast a greater spotlight on Akai, but that's to be expected given that the Bourbon arc really was Akai's arc (it revolved around his faked death and its consequences, after all). Despite being grief-stricken by Akai's death, Jodie was just as competent as ever in her first major appearance in the Bourbon arc (the robbery case), where she lured one of the robbers to the bathroom, knocked him out, and freed herself. True she was subsequently captured again but that doesn't erase what she did before. The one major instance of the FBI being dumbed down was the Sakura Shrine case, where Jodie was indeed handed the Idiot Ball (you could try to explain it away by saying she wasn't thinking straight since she'd just discovered that the man she thought was her resurrected lover wasn't actually him and so her hopes had been dashed, but even that doesn't adequately justify the incompetence on display). But even in the much-maligned Scarlet Showdown we see that Jodie and Camel (the two main FBI representatives in the story) are still good at what they do. Jodie didn't rise to Amuro's bait even though it involved the near-fatal injury of her close friend and she figured out that Akai had faked his death almost entirely on her own. Camel, while not showing the same discipline (and this is an established part of his character since the Kir arc; he's prone to making hasty mistakes under pressure, which is how he got Akai exposed in the BO in the first place), saved his and Jodie's life through his driving skills, and enabled Akai to take out the secret police chasing them (Akai explicitly confirmed that he wouldn't be able to make the crucial shot unless Camel angled the car just right). Gosho set up Akai's return so that it showcased the capabilities of his colleagues (Jodie the smart detective, Camel the skilled driver) while still displaying his own (Akai the sharpshooter), thus achieving a delicate balance where neither overshadowed the other. In general Akai still has a narrative edge over his peers and at times he does feel like an author's pet, but that doesn't make everyone else in the FBI incompetent buffoons. They sometimes make mistakes, but so does the BO.

Uh, Clash of Red and Black. Shuichi and Shinichi/Conan essentially circumvent their own allies (and in Shuichi's case, he really violated the chain of command) and make their own plan. Their justification (even if Shinichi/Conan never really says things like this, Shuichi does) seems to be that Jodie and James (and the rest of the FBI, for that matter) are just not up to it. They use the same justification ("yes, you are allies, but you're allies who aren't competent enough to realize our plan, and you'd ruin it if we let you in on it.") in Scarlet Showdown, when Shuichi's fake death is revealed. If anything, Gosho has had Jodie and Andre display incompetence and has had them not get things as quickly as they should (just look at them completely stumped by such a simple mystery in Scarlet Epilogue), so that Shuichi's and Shinichi's/Conan's deceptions seem completely justified. Gosho seems to have no desire to have Jodie and Andre keep pace with Shuichi.

Allow me to add on to my earlier statement—the FBI have been dumbed down to make the BO more intimidating, and to make Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi seem even cooler and more on top of things.

Since the Halloween Party case, Jodie has not made a deduction like she did, back then. Her deduction in Scarlet Showdown is just not on the same level.

The FBI are still some of Shinichi's/Conan's closest allies, yes... he trusts them, yes... but he just doesn't trust any of them as much as he trusts Shuichi. He can drive, deduce, and shoot—forget "jack of all trades, master of none," in this case, it's "master of all."

Again—"yes, you are allies, but you're allies who aren't competent enough to realize our plan, and you'd ruin it if we let you in on it."

I think it's premature to declare the entire plotline pointless without waiting until at least the conclusion of this flashback, where hopefully it'll become clear why any of this matters.

That's not the argument I see being made—rather, I see the argument, "This resolution isn't worth 200+ Files of waiting."

I, too, am waiting, to see where this goes, from here.

Shukichi being the second brother wasn't obvious here.

People have pretty much unanimously said it was Shuukichi since his second appearance where Okiya and Mary learned of his winning. Even before that he was one of the leading suspects due to his name, his age, resemblance to Shuuichi, proximity of introduction to when the middle bro was introduced. Plus the "Kichi-nii" animal crossing hint. All of that was back in 2013 and 2014.

I tried to argue against it because I felt it was too obvious

You must be remembering something wrong because it was pretty gradually spreading even up until the Mystery Train.

Shukichi and the middle brother weren't introduced until 2013. Same goes for Mary. Mystery Train was in 2012.

[Wakarimashita]

As I believe eros1607 mentioned, progressive dumbing down of women seems to be a recurring theme in DC. There's Ran and Kazuha of course, Jodie as said above, Vermouth in that recent case, Haibara to a degree after the Confrontation with Vermouth, and more. Sera simply being the most recent example.

Right now Mary is the one serving the powerful woman role for plot purposes but I'm willing to bet she'll be dumbed down too eventually.

[Kudo Shinchi]

Uh, Clash of Red and Black. Shuichi and Shinichi/Conan essentially circumvent their own allies (and in Shuichi's case, he really violated the chain of command) and make their own plan. Their justification (even if Shinichi/Conan never really says things like this, Shuichi does) seems to be that Jodie and James (and the rest of the FBI, for that matter) are just not up to it. They use the same justification ("yes, you are allies, but you're allies who aren't competent enough to realize our plan, and you'd ruin it if you figured it out.") in Scarlet Showdown, when Shuichi's fake death is revealed. If anything, Gosho has had Jodie and Andre display incompetence and has had them not get things as quickly as they should (just look at them completely stumped by such a simple mystery in Scarlet Epilogue), so that Shuichi's and Shinichi's/Conan's deceptions seem completely justified. Gosho seems to have no desire to have Jodie and Andre keep pace with Shuichi.

This is a rather uncharitable reading of their motives (also where does Akai say that?). It's not a matter of the FBI not being up to keeping Akai's secret, just the basic principle that the less people in the know the less chance the secret has of getting out. Imagine if Jodie or Camel had come across Scar Akai and they knew Akai was alive and undercover. The risk that their initial reactions would gave spilled the beans vindicates Akai's reasoning. This isn't really a matter of competence or not. Besides that, Akai has good reason not to trust Camel on the particular point of keeping his secret, as Camel had already outed Akai once before. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain Akai told James what he was planning. After all, James noticed the glue on Akai's fingertips when he grabbed him, and while non-canon, the scene at the end of movie 18 seems to confirm that James was in on it. So Akai didn't really violate the chain of command.

And no, Gosho doesn't want Jodie and Camel to be Akai's equals; as I said, Akai is Gosho's pet and still the most special FBI agent, both as a member of the organization and as a player in the story. I just don't think that means that Jodie and Camel are hopelessly incompetent.

(I was annoyed by that scene in the epilogue, though, especially right after Jode just figured out Akai's whole elaborate death plan on her own. I agree that scene was poorly conceived of and written)

Allow me to add on to my earlier statement—the FBI have been dumbed down to make the BO more intimidating, and to make Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi seem even cooler and more on top of things.

I think Jodie and Camel have been dumbed down maybe once or twice to make the BO more intimidating (Sakura shrine case), but I don't agree with your addition. Akai has always been a better agent than Jodie and Camel, but that doesn't make them bad anymore than Conan being the smartest detective in the series makes everyone else stupid. I just can't agree with this notion when Scarlet Showdown went out of its way to show Jodie's and Camel's merits as agents. (And yes, the scene in the epilogue is an example of exactly what you're saying. However, a lot of my dislike for it comes from it being inconsistent with the portrayal of FBI agents within the very same case, not because it was yet another example of the FBI being dumbed down).

Since the Halloween Party case, Jodie has not made a deduction like she did, back then. Her deduction in Scarlet Showdown is just not on the same level.

This seems like a rather arbitrary judgment. What is it about her deduction in Scarlet that's not on the same level? If anything it's more impressive, because she made it in far less time, and the only clue that tipped her off was Conan's scared face, which could have meant any number of things. Instead, with only a fraction of the hints the readers had to figure out Akai's faked death, she put the whole thing together, with assistance from no one.

That's not the argument I see being made—rather, I see the argument, "This resolution isn't worth 200+ Files of waiting."

Maybe not in this particular thread perhaps, but I've certainly seen it made.

Vermouth in that recent case, Haibara to a degree after the Confrontation with Vermouth

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I see it.

[k11chi]

After all, Gosho's dumbed them down since the Kir arc because he thinks that'll make the BO more intimidating.

Eh, I see this claim thrown around a lot but I'm not sure how much textual support it has. True, the end of the Kir arc and the Bourbon arc cast a greater spotlight on Akai, but that's to be expected given that the Bourbon arc really was Akai's arc (it revolved around his faked death and its consequences, after all). Despite being grief-stricken by Akai's death, Jodie was just as competent as ever in her first major appearance in the Bourbon arc (the robbery case), where she lured one of the robbers to the bathroom, knocked him out, and freed herself. True she was subsequently captured again but that doesn't erase what she did before. The one major instance of the FBI being dumbed down was the Sakura Shrine case, where Jodie was indeed handed the Idiot Ball (you could try to explain it away by saying she wasn't thinking straight since she'd just discovered that the man she thought was her resurrected lover wasn't actually him and so her hopes had been dashed, but even that doesn't adequately justify the incompetence on display). But even in the much-maligned Scarlet Showdown we see that Jodie and Camel (the two main FBI representatives in the story) are still good at what they do. Jodie didn't rise to Amuro's bait even though it involved the near-fatal injury of her close friend and she figured out that Akai had faked his death almost entirely on her own. Camel, while not showing the same discipline (and this is an established part of his character since the Kir arc; he's prone to making hasty mistakes under pressure, which is how he got Akai exposed in the BO in the first place), saved his and Jodie's life through his driving skills, and enabled Akai to take out the secret police chasing them (Akai explicitly confirmed that he wouldn't be able to make the crucial shot unless Camel angled the car just right). Gosho set up Akai's return so that it showcased the capabilities of his colleagues (Jodie the smart detective, Camel the skilled driver) while still displaying his own (Akai the sharpshooter), thus achieving a delicate balance where neither overshadowed the other. In general Akai still has a narrative edge over his peers and at times he does feel like an author's pet, but that doesn't make everyone else in the FBI incompetent buffoons. They sometimes make mistakes, but so does the BO.

Uh, Clash of Red and Black. Shuichi and Shinichi/Conan essentially circumvent their own allies (and in Shuichi's case, he really violated the chain of command) and make their own plan. Their justification (even if Shinichi/Conan never really says things like this, Shuichi does) seems to be that Jodie and James (and the rest of the FBI, for that matter) are just not up to it. They use the same justification ("yes, you are allies, but you're allies who aren't competent enough to realize our plan, and you'd ruin it if we let you in on it.") in Scarlet Showdown, when Shuichi's fake death is revealed. If anything, Gosho has had Jodie and Andre display incompetence and has had them not get things as quickly as they should (just look at them completely stumped by such a simple mystery in Scarlet Epilogue), so that Shuichi's and Shinichi's/Conan's deceptions seem completely justified. Gosho seems to have no desire to have Jodie and Andre keep pace with Shuichi.

Allow me to add on to my earlier statement—the FBI have been dumbed down to make the BO more intimidating, and to make Shinichi/Conan and Shuichi seem even cooler and more on top of things.

Since the Halloween Party case, Jodie has not made a deduction like she did, back then. Her deduction in Scarlet Showdown is just not on the same level.

The FBI are still some of Shinichi's/Conan's closest allies, yes... he trusts them, yes... but he just doesn't trust any of them as much as he trusts Shuichi. He can drive, deduce, and shoot—forget "jack of all trades, master of none," in this case, it's "master of all."

Again—"yes, you are allies, but you're allies who aren't competent enough to realize our plan, and you'd ruin it if we let you in on it."

I think it's premature to declare the entire plotline pointless without waiting until at least the conclusion of this flashback, where hopefully it'll become clear why any of this matters.

That's not the argument I see being made—rather, I see the argument, "This resolution isn't worth 200+ Files of waiting."

I, too, am waiting, to see where this goes, from here.

Shukichi being the second brother wasn't obvious here.

People have pretty much unanimously said it was Shuukichi since his second appearance where Okiya and Mary learned of his winning. Even before that he was one of the leading suspects due to his name, his age, resemblance to Shuuichi, proximity of introduction to when the middle bro was introduced. Plus the "Kichi-nii" animal crossing hint. All of that was back in 2013 and 2014.

I tried to argue against it because I felt it was too obvious

You must be remembering something wrong because it was pretty gradually spreading even up until the Mystery Train.

Shukichi and the middle brother weren't introduced until 2013. Same goes for Mary. Mystery Train was in 2012.

I don't remember when they were introduced but I remember it being related to the middle brother during the Mystery Train case that I had a discussion with someone where there were three likely candidates brought up with Shukichi being one of them. If it was in 2013 then it may have been the anime version.

Anyway the biggest point you can take from it is that it's nothing more than a chance. I can guarantee you thousands have already figured out the Boss's identity, as it's obvious. As the series is 20+ years and ongoing. That's the case with the middle brother, before the hints... Nothing more than a chance that people call obvious.

About the dumbing down, Masumi has failed in solving mysteries since the beginning. She's just not presented as mysteriously anymore.

[Wakarimashita]

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I see it.

Vermouth, who had previously been established as a very careful and meticulous character, messing up badly when disguised as Azusa by calling Ran 'Angel'.

Haibara by becoming much more one-dimensional and nowadays mainly reduced to pulling off slapstick humor with Conan.