Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Forum reserved for discussing specific points of the story—mostly from the manga. Be warned, these discussions will be current with the manga and will spoil many plot lines for anime-centric fans.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 12:03 am
well another wakita possibility is wakita maybe atsushi miyano.
1)his voice actor is shigeru chiba, mentor of
megumi hayashibara. (ai haibara voice actor)
2)also interested in chemistry lol.
3)and sushi in his name. lol.
4)he also looks like atsushi .blue hair. and spectacles
5)he hasnt met haibara.
I don't think Wakita is Tsutomo because Tsutomo is as smart as Shukichi and he could solve the mystery in the first Wakita's appearance , but Wakita solved the mystery incorrectly, so I do not think Tsutomo couldn't solve that mystery .
if Atsushi was rescued from the fire that the organization had arranged for them, I think he would have completely disappeared or
became anthor someone who would be away from the organization , and also from the scene .
I think Wakita is subordinate for Gin and his name is Cointreau . This is just a guess and his name could be whiskey .
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 11:34 pm
But his recollection of Kohji's body lacked the blood pooling under his mouth.
But Kuroda is not an investigator , so he doesn't have sufficient intelligence to scrutinize the image and imagine all it's details , let me clarify more, in the beginning for me personally when I see the image of Haneda Koji corpse , I did not realize that There is blood coming out of his mouth or there are glasses on his body despite the presence of bruises under his eyes , the investigators are those who realize and notice these details , so for us as fans or person like Kuroda who is not an investigator . so i expect Kuroda wan't in the hotel at time of the crime scene , he remembers Haneda Kohji and tries to solve the mystery because he has a relationship with Kohji either his father or his brother . But he doesn't remember Haneda's corpse as Rum .
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

mohamed.
well if wakita is gin subordinate. what do you make
of yaiba hint . today enemy boss advisor is making
appearance . although wakita may not be rum
,he has to be close to boss somehow.
another thing is if wakita is normal bo agent , cointreau or whiskey , whats the point of introducing a new character
if he doesnt contribute to main plot.
remember bourbon arc ,all three characters are still
important in rum arc. and except bourbon
other two were related to known characters.
so if wakita is not rum ,
he has to be either tsutomu , asaka ,atsushi
or someone else related to known character .otherwise
how does he progress the story by just being
an extra bo member like chianti or korn
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Shinan-Kudogawa

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Shinan-Kudogawa »

Mohamed Ebrahem wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 7:32 pm
Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 3:46 am
Well, according to Gosho, in one of his interviews. Rum is definitely one of the three (Kuroda, Wakasa & Wakita), I did and still somewhat skeptical of Muga Iroi's character and involvement with Rum. So unless, Gosho is lying, or your proposal of a different person (that must be disguising as one of the three), there's a big contradiction, if you agree with me on Wakasa, that leaves you with either Kuroda or Wakita as Rum, otherwise you are contradicting Gosho's statement, unless he is lying, which I highly doubt..
The four dishes , Agasa 's puzzle at the beginning of the Arc and the deception done by Agasa . I think it is a hint from Goshu that there will be a trick in this Arc . In my opinion, I see that Katsumata is well suited for the fourth dish that does not contain skull drawings , but the cup on it contains vinegar . As for Goshu’s reply when he said that Rum is one of the three , I don’t think if there was a fourth hidden suspect that Goshu would answer that question clearly , so Rum is really among the suspects but there are four suspects and not three , three appearing in front of us and one disappeared .
And this won't mean that Gouchu is a liar , he is an author of an mysterious anime . Therefore, he has the right to trick or cheat , and the reader has the right to suspect everyone .
I do also doubt the meaning behind Gosho's claim, however, and someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that Gosho said Rum is deifinetly one of the three, in the translations at least. Regarding trickery, I think thre might be, but a fourth suspect is highly unlikely, as you cannot fit words to your own theory, rather the other way around, you fit theories to match Gosho's words ;) . If, for the sake of debate, there is a 4th suspect, I honestly would suspect Muga Iori, as he makes more sense to me.

If Gosho is intentionally misleading with his words, I'd rather think that he meant someone is impersonating as one of the three, or taking their place. (remember that Kuroda's appearance changed, making it easy for someone to diguise as him, the same goes for Wakita who no one knows.)..
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

I also think that Rum has to be one among the three suspects. Because see, when the revelation does take place there has to be a connection between the readers and the rum character. This is only possible if that character has made an appearance multiple times in the arc.
For example, the character akai's father has been mentioned now and then in different context. So we readers won't be disappointed if he is revealed as a disguise of someone we already know.
My rambling till now is to point out that the character chikara has not made any prominent appearance since his first introduction. Also him being in disguise as someone else will only work if chikara is developed more as a character.
And if chikara does turn out to be Rum without any character development, it won't lead us any far plot wise, the same like the karasuma name revelation.
The same thing goes for wakita as well, but we can hope some development​ on his side over a year or so before the arc climax.
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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 11:40 pm
otherwise
how does he progress the story by just being
an extra bo member like chianti or korn
Wakita could be Gosho's way of having Gin get close to the main characters and investigate them without him himself being directly involved with them (by using a close subordinate, Wakita, to be the middle-man). I definitely see that as a logical way of progressing the story in regards to Gin's goals and interest/suspicions without affecting the status quo too much.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
vaibhavgupte

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by vaibhavgupte »

MeiTanteixX wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 11:13 am
vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 11:40 pm
otherwise
how does he progress the story by just being
an extra bo member like chianti or korn
Wakita could be Gosho's way of having Gin get close to the main characters and investigate them without him himself being directly involved with them (by using a close subordinate, Wakita, to be the middle-man). I definitely see that as a logical way of progressing the story in regards to Gin's goals and interest/suspicions without affecting the status quo too much.
this does explain why even though
bourbon is already investigating
kogoro still wakita , another bo investigates kogoro.
since wakita is gin's man and bourbon doesnt confide
info to gin.
but the contradiction in wakita being gins subordinate
is that yaiba hint: advisor of enemy boss makes appearance
today.
how come boss advisor is gin subordinate. gin is number 3.
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 19th, 2020, 11:40 pm
mohamed.
well if wakita is gin subordinate. what do you make
of yaiba hint . today enemy boss advisor is making
appearance . although wakita may not be rum
,he has to be close to boss somehow.
another thing is if wakita is normal bo agent , cointreau or whiskey , whats the point of introducing a new character
if he doesnt contribute to main plot.
remember bourbon arc ,all three characters are still
important in rum arc. and except bourbon
other two were related to known characters.
so if wakita is not rum ,
he has to be either tsutomu , asaka ,atsushi
or someone else related to known character .otherwise
how does he progress the story by just being
an extra bo member like chianti or korn
vaibhavgupte
Easy hints are often misleading about the truth , and It is not necessary that the appearance of the person close to the leader was mentioned by Wakita meaning that Wakita is No. 2 or subordinate to No. 2 , this easily might be as I said just misleading , if you remember Okia Subaru , hints in his first appearance are such Haibara radar is trigerred and presence of crows , these are easy hints that were misleading us , but the real hidden hint is that Okia was the red man .
Wakita's benefit for Gosho is that he considers for fans a red herring as rum , but in my opinion Wakita isn't , as this explains Gin's absence from the scene during that period , despite Gin's interest in Kogoro .
It does not mean if Wakita isn't rum that the main events and the story will not advance/progress . Rum is on the scene and has not disappeared , but in my opinion he is not Wakita .
Shinan-Kudogawa wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 2:42 am
I do also doubt the meaning behind Gosho's claim, however, and someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that Gosho said Rum is deifinetly one of the three, in the translations at least. Regarding trickery, I think thre might be, but a fourth suspect is highly unlikely, as you cannot fit words to your own theory, rather the other way around, you fit theories to match Gosho's words ;) . If, for the sake of debate, there is a 4th suspect, I honestly would suspect Muga Iori, as he makes more sense to me.
If Gosho is intentionally misleading with his words, I'd rather think that he meant someone is impersonating as one of the three, or taking their place. (remember that Kuroda's appearance changed, making it easy for someone to diguise as him, the same goes for Wakita who no one knows.)..
I hope that Gosho won't mislead us in this arc and Rum be one of the three . I was only telling you my opinion about the suspects , but Rum will definitely be the one who will appear to be Rum in manga and not according to in opinions of fans .
MeiTanteixX wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 11:13 am
Wakita could be Gosho's way of having Gin get close to the main characters and investigate them without him himself being directly involved with them (by using a close subordinate, Wakita, to be the middle-man). I definitely see that as a logical way of progressing the story in regards to Gin's goals and interest/suspicions without affecting the status quo too much.
I agree with you , I hope our guess about Wakita's identity is correct .
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 18th, 2020, 11:34 pm

I don't think Rumi is Asaka.......
Zerozaki
If you think Wakasa Rumi is not Asaka , I will tell you a very invisible hint and I don't know whether or not you will be satisfied with it .
In chapters 906 907 908 the cameras used to visualize these three . Look at the reaction of the feminine man /man in the middle . Is his reaction , we have look similar ? Yes, very similar to Asaka's reaction , in my opinion, this is a hint from Gosho that the suspect who will be a feminine in front of you in the manga as a suspect for Rum = in front of the cameras , will be Asaka .
Among the meanings that the word "asaka" are shy or indiscreet . In your opinion , Are not those characteristics similar to those of Rumi ??

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MeiTanteixX

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by MeiTanteixX »

vaibhavgupte wrote:
May 20th, 2020, 1:24 pm
this does explain why even though
bourbon is already investigating
kogoro still wakita , another bo investigates kogoro.
since wakita is gin's man and bourbon doesnt confide
info to gin.
but the contradiction in wakita being gins subordinate
is that yaiba hint: advisor of enemy boss makes appearance
today.
how come boss advisor is gin subordinate. gin is number 3.
the translation was "close associate of the enemy boss", not "advisor"/"second-in-command"/"right-hand". That description applies even to Vermouth and Pisco, so not a Rum-exclusive description.
DC's Awesome Qoutes:
Spoiler:
Image
Bourbon:''A child's curiosity and a detective's spirit of inquiry do have much in common''
Image
Vermouth:''A secret makes a woman, woman''
Image Image
Mary/Gin:''It's like encountering a demon in the darkness...''
Image
Akai Shuichi:''Fear of death is worse than death itself''
Image
Shinichi Kudo:''following the smell of blood to arrive upon a crime scene, using every one of your senses to hunt the culprit, then once you've seized hold of him, sinking your sharp teeth(your evidence) until your opponent gives up the ghost, That's a detective''
DeviantArt:http://meitanteixx.deviantart.com/
Tumblr:http://masterdetectivexx.tumblr.com/
Youtube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFL6Gq ... hWaNIRUu0Q
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Zerozaki
If you think Wakasa Rumi is not Asaka , I will tell you a very invisible hint and I don't know whether or not you will be satisfied with it .
Then Asaka would be a womanly man right, like the chef/the one likes tea etc/the one who makes great sandwiches/one who has a ponytail.

But I guess there is something you can agree, that Asaka is pretty tall......Given the lens of the camera was parallel to the ground and it reached up to Asaka's shoulder, I do think Asaka would be over 6 feet height, too tall to be Rumi.

Regarding Wakita, it's very likely that he is someone sent by Gin but knows Wakasa Rumi's game-plan, ("Hence this one is quick witted.")
There is another link that, both Mary and Gin utter the same quote ("The demon in the darkness") to describe a hidden and imminent danger.

Mary was describing her drugger (Vermouth and her identity theft of Tsutomu and how Conan's voice changer made her think of that horrible experience.)
Gin was describing Mouri Kogoro (How he was involved in a number of cases which involved BO but later turned out as someone not involved, from a BO perspective.)

But this is a novel quote, Gin as of now didn't show much of a proclivity of using quotes, so did Mary.So there could be a person common to both Gin amd Mary's life who can have a lasting impression on people by his/her usage of apt proverbs to describe the situation.

Tsutomu Akai is such a person.....

Wakita's gate up is Rum's imitation.......
His name is the anagaram of Japanese version of Rum's pet phrase........
Wakita (unlike Bourbon) only wants to visit Murder scenes with Kogoro.....(as if his true target will reveal themselves at a murder case scene.)

Regarding the Yaiba hint (it wasn't a direct hint. The hint was about a very-close associate of the boss will feature in the show. So Wakita is compared with an actor playing the role of a villain. Unlike Bourbon/red-guy/Boss of some association etc.)
Reader

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Reader »

Zerozaki
Regarding Wakita, it's very likely that he is someone sent by Gin but knows Wakasa Rumi's game-plan, ("Hence this one is quick witted.")
I am sure the following has been brought up before but still:
We don't know whether he was referring to Rumi or someone else. Gosho won't try to be so obvious, would he?
Zerozaki4869

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Zerozaki4869 »

Reader wrote:
May 21st, 2020, 1:57 am
Zerozaki
Regarding Wakita, it's very likely that he is someone sent by Gin but knows Wakasa Rumi's game-plan, ("Hence this one is quick witted.")
I am sure the following has been brought up before but still:
We don't know whether he was referring to Rumi or someone else. Gosho won't try to be so obvious, would he?
It was wrong. Plus there is ample evidence that it was Rumi's news.
Because that was the only noteworthy incident happening the day before.......(it was clarified in Amine too.)
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Mohamed Ebrahem

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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Mohamed Ebrahem »

Zerozaki4869 wrote:
May 21st, 2020, 12:26 am
Then Asaka would be a womanly man right, like the chef/the one likes tea etc/the one who makes great sandwiches/one who has a ponytail.
I don't think Iori Muga is Asaka because of his age and also has had no suspicion or little connection to the Koji case .
We know the people involved in the Koji case are : Rum, Asaka, Amanda, Tsutomu and the victim Koji .
Wakasa has a shogi piece from the crime scene and she recalls the body of Haneda Koji , so she must have relation with this case .
The question is , what is the appropriate identity for Wakasa Rumi among the five people involved in the case ? Is it Tsutomo ? Is it Amanda ? Is it Haneda Koji ? Is it rum? In my opinion "No" , is it Asaka ? In my opinion " yes" .
The message left at the crime scene points to "Karasuma". I don't think Haneda Koji knows that name . So who talk in front of us and seemed to know Karasuma ? It is Wakasa Rumi when speaking on the farm case with Kobayashi .
in chapters 906 907 908 , The womenly man represents Wakasa as this man was photographed with the camera , in front of the public or in front of us (fans) , who is the one who possesses the female characteristics of the three suspects who Goshu always shouts in front of the us (fans) that RUM is one of them ? It's Rumi .
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Kudo Shinchi
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Re: Rum Arc Discussion Thread (Plot + Characters)

Post by Kudo Shinchi »

The Nagano Snowy Mountains Case (1027-1031) feels important. It features what are in my mind the only viable Rum candidates at this stage (Kuroda and Wakita) in close proximity to Bourbon, the only person in the cast who regularly contacts Rum. By having Rei dodge Conan's question about whether or not he had personally met Rum, Gosho shrewdly allows for divergent readings of the case. Without that essential piece of information--would Rei recognize Rum if he met him--we're left uncertain as to how we should interpret Rei's interactions with Wakita and Kuroda.

Rei doesn't appear particularly perturbed by Wakita's presence, yet he goes out of his way to deflect any possible interest Wakita has in Conan (who picks up on this, as he shoots Rei a curious look when he insists to Wakita that Conan has no real deductive skills). In fact, the case's main source of tension comes from Rei's interactions with Wakita, who is portrayed as a potential BO operative skeptical of Rei's loyalty. Thus we get Wakita menacingly talking to Rei about weeding out traitors (in the context of cheating fish vendors, of course). Thematically, the case itself is about traitors, as the culprit believed his victims betrayed their mutual close friend by deliberately losing an important baseball match in return for admission to a prestigious university--by cheating, in other words.

The other major theme in this case is time. The reason the murder victims purposely lost the baseball match wasn't to secure their spots at a university, but to save their friend's baseball career, as he had promised to keep pitching balls to the end despite injuring himself by pitching too many in too short a time. He'd built his reputation on being an abnormally fast pitcher, but it was that same speed that prematurely ended his career. Lots of time-related irony all around. This fixation on time crops up in the very fist pages of the case, when Conan wonders whether PSB agents like Rei have too much free time, and again when Rei describes Rum as exceedingly impatient, presumably because he believes that "time is money." We see Wakita's impatience repeatedly, from opening the door to the church when no one opens it for the visitors to interrupting the panicking suspects when thy don't immediately show Mouri the respect he's due. But interestingly, we also see Kuroda bing impatient as well--when Kansuke doesn't immediately oblige Kuroda's request that he speak to Koumei, Kuroda shouts, "What are you waiting for? Switch me over!" The case ends with Koumi reflecting to himself, "Time is money, as the saying goes..." Did he hear this from anyone recently? Kuroda, perhaps?
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