Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

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angelranchan
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby angelranchan » June 10th, 2011, 3:23 am

Jd- wrote:
Nyarl wrote:If I go away, the Ran bashing echo chamber wins.


Do you really believe there is no reason to be discontent with the character of Ran? Is she really that perfect? Oh, what an angel! :-*

Better question: Why does it matter? Answer that question for me, as honestly as possible. When you conduct yourself in such an undecorous manner, even those uninvolved with the debate are given plenty reason to doubt your side simply due to how you come across. If you're not convincing anyone in any way, why even bother? I mean, unflagging your account (thus rendering your "stand" laughable and proving your principles are not concrete ones) and then posting. Is it because your life is so empty that this is something you feel driven to do? If you really wanted to take a stand and actually represent something, you would have flagged your account once last July (or whenever it was, forgive my memory of such an insignificant event) and never returned. Instead, you've given a great many even more reason to not only not take you seriously, but to not reconsider their opinion on this character you hold so dearly.

Nyarl wrote:See, I actually bother with a point by point rebuttal with not one insult or dismissal-as-mere-nitpicking and now I get "you take things too seriously", "you're just too obsessed with Ran" dismissals. Why bother even trying to be respectful you guys? Making posts with arguments and evidence is an utter waste of time. Invective is what you lot deserve. (Oh, and my ridicule and invective is serious business, while Slider's is just good fun. hypocrites.)


'Why be respectful to others'? How about because very few of them have ever wronged you in any way other than not being as infatuated with the object of your obsession? And yes, you are obsessed--if you aren't in therapy already, it may be time. I know Ran is probably a big part of your life--she may very well be the only female in your life (which would explain why you protect her as fervently as many do a spouse). But, no matter your perceived marital status with the character, I am here to give you a reality check: None of this matters. What other people think of a character is their opinion. If they do not like Ran, that is not a reason to attack them--that's a reason to acknowledge that different people like different things.

Maybe this will sum it up for you:

Spoiler:
Image


I'll leave you with one final thought: If Ran is really such an amazing character, she doesn't need defending. No matter what happens, if she is really as great as you think she is, she will be impervious to those that have so heartlessly set out to slander her beautiful name. (And what a beautiful name it is, right? I mean... it's so... perfect...)


  THANKS..(for what?)    :)
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Wakarimashita
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Wakarimashita » June 10th, 2011, 6:56 am

angelranchan wrote:
Jd- wrote:
Nyarl wrote:If I go away, the Ran bashing echo chamber wins.


Do you really believe there is no reason to be discontent with the character of Ran? Is she really that perfect? Oh, what an angel! :-*

Better question: Why does it matter? Answer that question for me, as honestly as possible. When you conduct yourself in such an undecorous manner, even those uninvolved with the debate are given plenty reason to doubt your side simply due to how you come across. If you're not convincing anyone in any way, why even bother? I mean, unflagging your account (thus rendering your "stand" laughable and proving your principles are not concrete ones) and then posting. Is it because your life is so empty that this is something you feel driven to do? If you really wanted to take a stand and actually represent something, you would have flagged your account once last July (or whenever it was, forgive my memory of such an insignificant event) and never returned. Instead, you've given a great many even more reason to not only not take you seriously, but to not reconsider their opinion on this character you hold so dearly.

Nyarl wrote:See, I actually bother with a point by point rebuttal with not one insult or dismissal-as-mere-nitpicking and now I get "you take things too seriously", "you're just too obsessed with Ran" dismissals. Why bother even trying to be respectful you guys? Making posts with arguments and evidence is an utter waste of time. Invective is what you lot deserve. (Oh, and my ridicule and invective is serious business, while Slider's is just good fun. hypocrites.)


'Why be respectful to others'? How about because very few of them have ever wronged you in any way other than not being as infatuated with the object of your obsession? And yes, you are obsessed--if you aren't in therapy already, it may be time. I know Ran is probably a big part of your life--she may very well be the only female in your life (which would explain why you protect her as fervently as many do a spouse). But, no matter your perceived marital status with the character, I am here to give you a reality check: None of this matters. What other people think of a character is their opinion. If they do not like Ran, that is not a reason to attack them--that's a reason to acknowledge that different people like different things.

Maybe this will sum it up for you:

Spoiler:
Image


I'll leave you with one final thought: If Ran is really such an amazing character, she doesn't need defending. No matter what happens, if she is really as great as you think she is, she will be impervious to those that have so heartlessly set out to slander her beautiful name. (And what a beautiful name it is, right? I mean... it's so... perfect...)


  THANKS..(for what?)    :)


Spoiler:
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby ranger » June 10th, 2011, 7:11 am

stop using that!  It was really funny the first time though
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Jd- » June 10th, 2011, 7:23 am

That was actually still hilarious. Jd- approves.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby dilbertschalter » June 10th, 2011, 11:41 am

good mr. j.d. that is a heinous and unprovoked attack on sir nyarl and in my capacity as moderator i am required to reprimand you for such a transgression.

next time i won't be so lenient.

Spoiler:
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Nyarl » June 19th, 2011, 6:33 pm

Jd- wrote:
Nyarl wrote:If I go away, the Ran bashing echo chamber wins.


Do you really believe there is no reason to be discontent with the character of Ran? Is she really that perfect? Oh, what an angel! :-*

Better question: Why does it matter? Answer that question for me, as honestly as possible. When you conduct yourself in such an undecorous manner, even those uninvolved with the debate are given plenty reason to doubt your side simply due to how you come across. If you're not convincing anyone in any way, why even bother? I mean, unflagging your account (thus rendering your "stand" laughable and proving your principles are not concrete ones) and then posting. Is it because your life is so empty that this is something you feel driven to do? If you really wanted to take a stand and actually represent something, you would have flagged your account once last July (or whenever it was, forgive my memory of such an insignificant event) and never returned. Instead, you've given a great many even more reason to not only not take you seriously, but to not reconsider their opinion on this character you hold so dearly.

Nyarl wrote:See, I actually bother with a point by point rebuttal with not one insult or dismissal-as-mere-nitpicking and now I get "you take things too seriously", "you're just too obsessed with Ran" dismissals. Why bother even trying to be respectful you guys? Making posts with arguments and evidence is an utter waste of time. Invective is what you lot deserve. (Oh, and my ridicule and invective is serious business, while Slider's is just good fun. hypocrites.)


'Why be respectful to others'? How about because very few of them have ever wronged you in any way other than not being as infatuated with the object of your obsession? And yes, you are obsessed--if you aren't in therapy already, it may be time. I know Ran is probably a big part of your life--she may very well be the only female in your life (which would explain why you protect her as fervently as many do a spouse). But, no matter your perceived marital status with the character, I am here to give you a reality check: None of this matters. What other people think of a character is their opinion. If they do not like Ran, that is not a reason to attack them--that's a reason to acknowledge that different people like different things.

Maybe this will sum it up for you:

Spoiler:
Image


I'll leave you with one final thought: If Ran is really such an amazing character, she doesn't need defending. No matter what happens, if she is really as great as you think she is, she will be impervious to those that have so heartlessly set out to slander her beautiful name. (And what a beautiful name it is, right? I mean... it's so... perfect...)


Solipsism, ad hominem, and straw men. Ie, nothing new from you, but, anyway... Let's address the strawman first. I've never said people who like the manga must also then like Ran. Certainly never that she's "perfect" without author intended flaws or unintended yet perfectly valid perception of flaws in her character or the author's characterization of her.

Now lets address the solipsism. People are entitled to their aesthetics. They are not entitled to justify their aesthetics on spurious grounds without debate, however. "I hate apples," is an opinion. "I hate apples because they are meat grown in a cow scrotum," is a spurious rationalization. Once they add the "because" they open themselves up to the correction of their spurious factual assertions. They can no longer hide behind it being a mere opinion. Once they ignore correction it becomes perfectly reasonable to form negative opinions of their person. Whether one chooses to express those negative opinions is however a pure question of aesthetics. I don't particularly care to "agree to disagree" with idiots on forums where I have been the subject of abuse. (My beef with Slider goes back to his bashing my fansite episode guide. I thought I took it pretty well at the time, asking for constructive criticism. Didn't get any, of course, and only got more ridicule and empty dismissive comments about other opinions, over the years, so I find it perfectly reasonable to dislike the guy, and have no qualms admitting it. That his ridicule is perfectly fine and dandy and being offended merely reveals a character flaw of the offended while my irritated flames of idiots are something to be censored just goes to show this fandom is no less prone to cliquishness than any other.)

Now let's address the ad hominum. People who judge my opinions based on the little game we're playing with the account deletion (you insinuate you don't care, but someone helpfully made my profile link directly to the deletion page the other day...) are poor judges. I can be a overly touchy, snotty, Ran obsessed and still be correct. (As for my Ran obsession itself, I been joking about it for years, so any harangue about it will not provoke outrage or shame if that's what you were aiming for.) I'd like to think that keeping the truth out there is in itself a worthy enough goal, whether or not it persuades those who cling religiously to their false idioms (ie, the idiots). Right now, it's also just a way to kill some free time while waiting for the next Fallout: New Vegas expansion. 
Last edited by Jd- on June 22nd, 2011, 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Jd- » June 22nd, 2011, 7:01 pm

Nyarl! Glad to see you again. I almost thought you wouldn't come back!

Yeaaaah, right. :-*

Firstly, you're facing a straw man of your own there: no one is saying that anyone who likes the manga must also then like Ran. There are valid criticisms of every character in history (from any series or work, not just Conan), Ran included and certainly not just due to "flaws" introduced specifically by the author. One could correctly criticize a character for not reaching their potential or stalling out. Naturally, you glossed over that entire angle without answering to it (certainly nothing new--can't say I expected anything else, either). The first line was my attempt at playfully ridiculing your unending sympathy for the Ran character, not to set you in a position. I mean, on that point, I'm sure everyone here would love to see a list of flaws in the Ran character as listed by you.

There is no ad hominem attack on you that has any bearing on the argument at hand (questioning your approach to belittling those that disagree with you). Any vituperation directed at you is secondary and generally meant for comedic effect. You simply cannot acknowledge that your own actions may be irrational or contradicting (for example: someone saying they wish their account were deleted, but having to take down the request for it to be deleted so that they may continue to participate in the place they wish to be deleted from). If your conduct is indeed not entirely rational (it isn't), then you are--at the very least--exactly the same as those you continue to condemn (although your enemies are exaggerated and, for the most part, imaginary). I mean, do you really want to accuse anyone of labeling others? How many times have you called people "anti-fans" due to their disagreeing with you? (Despite the fact they are at least equally passionate and have, in many cases, contributed far more than you ever will to the English Conan community) Does that mean you're just as guilty as everyone else given that you have a very clear history of doing exactly that, repeatedly?

From your second paragraph, one could perhaps mistake your quest not as one seeking justice for the fairest of maidens but as one retaliating against those that have, in your own view, wronged you. I don't believe I have to illustrate just how immature that is. If you really consider Slider to be someone of so little character, why give weight to his opinion on something you've done in the past? I again ask you why you care so much for a remark that is so utterly meaningless in the long run. Do you realize how many people dislike me not for anything I've said or done to them but for what I've "accomplished"? I can promise you it's far more than people who have criticized your fan website(s), and yet... You won't see me mentioning them at every turn. If you truly have a "beef" with Slider, the mature route is to speak with him personally on the matter. You could very well now contend that he's too immature to deal with (due to past implications), but that in itself is reason for you to not take him seriously in the first place. I've disagreed with Slider on a great many issues in the past, but you won't see me spewing enmity for him in post after post--especially in those that aren't even in reply to him.

You can say that anytime anyone adds "because" to their opinions on why they hold a character in disfavor that they then are potentially subjecting themselves to "correction", but what you do not acknowledge is that it is a street with two lanes. Anytime you say you like Ran "because" of something, you are doing exactly the same as what you are accusing "the haterzzzzz" of doing. Even should they justify it with what you consider falsities, this does not mean their history of disliking a character is suddenly invalid--in many instances, there won't be "evidence" they can immediately point to that explains their position. The "evidence" that you so often attempt to take people to task for is often their opinion on a matter that you disagree with (such as those saying they dislike Ran's reckless means of "rescue" in episode 345). If you can't respect that their take on it is different than yours, you shouldn't have any reason to ever be in contact with others.

You say you don't care to agree to disagree, and that's exactly why you've cornered yourself into your current position. When you actively demonstrate you can't respect the opinions of others, you are merely showcasing a character flaw on your part--not pointing out those of others.

To the main point: You have yet again missed the entire point of someone criticizing you (literally nothing new here). Let me spell it out to you with an example: It simply does not matter whether you feel your arguments are sound or not. If you choose to set up shop on the steps of the Lincoln Monument and shout like a lunatic about a governmental cover-up on a scale the world has never seen and yet viciously attack everyone that looks at you the wrong way, no one will ever listen or take you seriously--even if it is 100% true. The reason? It is how you conduct yourself that matters foremost. This is what I have been saying to you all along, yet you continue to fail to listen. Right now, it doesn't matter if you can cite evidence that seemingly contradicts criticism of Ran to anyone, in any arena. If you don't do it with some tact and respect for others, you are actively making it more about you than the points you are making and as a result giving people very valid reasons to question the value of anything you say (or the right to ignore it altogether). Given your inflated opinion of yourself (beginning with you considering those that disagree with you "idiots", never acknowledging that you may just be wrong in your own approach, and implying that you're a beacon of truth), I'm really not surprised by any of this.

Come on, though: Is it all really just a way to "kill time" while waiting for whatever? You've said before that it's all a means of passing the time while waiting for (insert desire that isn't Ran's hand in marriage here). The truth simply is that you can't quit us. It's been almost an entire year since you vowed you wanted to leave and yet you still cannot do so. For someone that criticizes the personal worth of others quite often, you don't seem to have very much conviction going for you. As for your account "going straight to the delete page" or whatnot, I'd imagine that was you accidentally clicking a link in your address bar, as no one (most certainly not me) has set up anything of the sort for your account or any other.

In closing, I'll clarify for you (since it so direly needs doing) that you aren't the end-all for all truth-seekers as you so willingly fancy yourself to be. You have too much bias to be objective, thus very often clouding your judgment. There's some truth for you, and I don't even consider myself the messiah of all that is true! Imagine if I started charging for this!
Last edited by Jd- on June 22nd, 2011, 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Nyarl » June 22nd, 2011, 8:46 pm

Jd- wrote:Nyarl! Glad to see you again. I almost thought you wouldn't come back!

Yeaaaah, right. :-*

Firstly, you're facing a straw man of your own there: no one is saying that anyone who likes the manga must also then like Ran. There are valid criticisms of every character in history (from any series or work, not just Conan), Ran included and certainly not just due to "flaws" introduced specifically by the author. One could correctly criticize a character for not reaching their potential or stalling out. Naturally, you glossed over that entire angle without answering to it (certainly nothing new--can't say I expected anything else, either). The first line was my attempt at playfully ridiculing your unending sympathy for the Ran character, not to set you in a position. I mean, on that point, I'm sure everyone here would love to see a list of flaws in the Ran character as listed by you.

There is no ad hominem attack on you that has any bearing on the argument at hand (questioning your approach to belittling those that disagree with you). Any vituperation directed at you is secondary and generally meant for comedic effect. You simply cannot acknowledge that your own actions may be irrational or contradicting (for example: someone saying they wish their account were deleted, but having to take down the request for it to be deleted so that they may continue to participate in the place they wish to be deleted from). If your conduct is indeed not entirely rational (it isn't), then you are--at the very least--exactly the same as those you continue to condemn (although your enemies are exaggerated and, for the most part, imaginary). I mean, do you really want to accuse anyone of labeling others? How many times have you called people "anti-fans" due to their disagreeing with you? (Despite the fact they are at least equally passionate and have, in many cases, contributed far more than you ever will to the English Conan community) Does that mean you're just as guilty as everyone else given that you have a very clear history of doing exactly that, repeatedly?

From your second paragraph, one could perhaps mistake your quest not as one seeking justice for the fairest of maidens but as one retaliating against those that have, in your own view, wronged you. I don't believe I have to illustrate just how immature that is. If you really consider Slider to be someone of so little character, why give weight to his opinion on something you've done in the past? I again ask you why you care so much for a remark that is so utterly meaningless in the long run. Do you realize how many people dislike me not for anything I've said or done to them but for what I've "accomplished"? I can promise you it's far more than people who have criticized your fan website(s), and yet... You won't see me mentioning them at every turn. If you truly have a "beef" with Slider, the mature route is to speak with him personally on the matter. You could very well now contend that he's too immature to deal with (due to past implications), but that in itself is reason for you to not take him seriously in the first place. I've disagreed with Slider on a great many issues in the past, but you won't see me spewing enmity for him in post after post--especially in those that aren't even in reply to him.

You can say that anytime anyone adds "because" to their opinions on why they hold a character in disfavor that they then are potentially subjecting themselves to "correction", but what you do not acknowledge is that it is a street with two lanes. Anytime you say you like Ran "because" of something, you are doing exactly the same as what you are accusing "the haterzzzzz" of doing. Even should they justify it with what you consider falsities, this does not mean their history of disliking a character is suddenly invalid--in many instances, there won't be "evidence" they can immediately point to that explains their position. The "evidence" that you so often attempt to take people to task for is often their opinion on a matter that you disagree with (such as those saying they dislike Ran's reckless means of "rescue" in episode 345). If you can't respect that their take on it is different than yours, you shouldn't have any reason to ever be in contact with others.

You say you don't care to agree to disagree, and that's exactly why you've cornered yourself into your current position. When you actively demonstrate you can't respect the opinions of others, you are merely showcasing a character flaw on your part--not pointing out those of others.

To the main point: You have yet again missed the entire point of someone criticizing you (literally nothing new here). Let me spell it out to you with an example: It simply does not matter whether you feel your arguments are sound or not. If you choose to set up shop on the steps of the Lincoln Monument and shout like a lunatic about a governmental cover-up on a scale the world has never seen and yet viciously attack everyone that looks at you the wrong way, no one will ever listen or take you seriously--even if it is 100% true. The reason? It is how you conduct yourself that matters foremost. This is what I have been saying to you all along, yet you continue to fail to listen. Right now, it doesn't matter if you can cite evidence that seemingly contradicts criticism of Ran to anyone, in any arena. If you don't do it with some tact and respect for others, you are actively making it more about you than the points you are making and as a result giving people very valid reasons to question the value of anything you say (or the right to ignore it altogether). Given your inflated opinion of yourself (beginning with you considering those that disagree with you "idiots", never acknowledging that you may just be wrong in your own approach, and implying that you're a beacon of truth), I'm really not surprised by any of this.

Come on, though: Is it all really just a way to "kill time" while waiting for whatever? You've said before that it's all a means of passing the time while waiting for (insert desire that isn't Ran's hand in marriage here). The truth simply is that you can't quit us. It's been almost an entire year since you vowed you wanted to leave and yet you still cannot do so. For someone that criticizes the personal worth of others quite often, you don't seem to have very much conviction going for you. As for your account "going straight to the delete page" or whatnot, I'd imagine that was you accidentally clicking a link in your address bar, as no one (most certainly not me) has set up anything of the sort for your account or any other.

In closing, I'll clarify for you (since it so direly needs doing) that you aren't the end-all for all truth-seekers as you so willingly fancy yourself to be. You have too much bias to be objective, thus very often clouding your judgment. There's some truth for you, and I don't even consider myself the messiah of all that is true! Imagine if I started charging for this!


Jd- wrote:As for your account "going straight to the delete page" or whatnot, I'd imagine that was you accidentally clicking a link in your address bar, as no one (most certainly not me) has set up anything of the sort for your account or any other.


Unless "profile" link/Haibara's face is now supposed to mean "delete", you are definitely imagining things. I'll give you credit for not blatantly lying, though, and assume someone else did it without your knowledge. If you are going to accuse me of lying, you'd better fix it before I get around to proving it, because I just might bother.

BTW, it's sad it takes a crazy Ran fan to point out the neat stuff she does that the "lol, Ran is dum" clique overlook. Like, has one single person given Ran any credit for figuring out the puzzle with the doll in the current anime case? Nope, they're too busy claiming she was sabotaging the investigation with her emotional outburst (because the threat was so imminent they needed to face it after a night's rest, they couldn't possibly take out a few minutes for that emo's selfish needs). Sorry, I'm a biased crazy fan, but I'm still right about the irrationally biased Ran bashing.

Ran's flaws? She really is the "sacrifice my life for love" type. Yep, I count that as a flaw. I disagree we really knew it was a flaw until the love fortune case, and that revealing it was a filler waste of time when we should have just had the Org. show up to kill her instead. Ran's monster phobia is a flaw. Not a "moe" one to me, either, Sonoko . Ran's sense of empathy is is yin/yang trait. Ie, both good and bad things come from it, from paralytic guilt to noble self-sacrifice. Ran was very obviously completely re-characterized around volume 5, when Sonoko was introduced to play of newly serious Ran, and perhaps the characters are forced to serve the plot a bit more often than their traits are used to shape plausible plots (valid inconsistent characterization criticism of Aoyama). So, yeah, your little "Ran and her portrayal are flawless" is a straw man.

Note the double standard I revealed in this thread about Ran's plans needing to have no obvious critical failure points, while Shin'ichi can go charging into Org. bases and just be "an hero". Double standards are not valid coherent differences of opinion, even for fictional characters. Saying that is not poor judgment, it's just hyping right.

BTW, you don't think "Slider" is relevant to a discussion about my inability to leave when it was his "ban him" post that got me flagging the delete in the first place? I shouldn't have taken him seriously? Just accept abuse and ridicule (because it would be arrogant to be offended) while walking on eggshells myself not allowing myself to snark blatant double standards (because it would be arrogant to belittle people for opinions)? No. And, hype you for that double standard, too.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby sonoci » June 22nd, 2011, 9:14 pm

Hrnh... Not my place I don't think, but there's just a few things I've gotta get out.

Nyarl wrote:BTW, it's sad it takes a crazy Ran fan to point out the neat stuff she does that the "lol, Ran is dum" clique overlook. Like, has one single person given Ran any credit for figuring out the puzzle with the doll in the current anime case? Nope, they're too busy claiming she was sabotaging the investigation with her emotional outburst (because the threat was so imminent they needed to face it after a night's rest, they couldn't possibly take out a few minutes for that emo's selfish needs). Sorry, I'm a biased crazy fan, but I'm still right about the irrationally biased Ran bashing.


To be honest, the first time I was reading the London case, I was impressed with Ran's help. I was actually more facepalming at the fact that Shinichi used his other pill when he very much could've gotten away with saying "I saw Shinichi-niichan run that way". I actually didn't think Ran's "emo's selfish needs" as you call it were that bad...and this is coming from someone who voted Ran least favorite character.

People accent the negatives far more than the positives: even my other friend who really doesn't like Ran didn't point out her "emo's selfish needs". She instead pointed out Shinichi's idiocy. Just because people don't post on it doesn't mean they didn't notice.

Nyarl wrote:Note the double standard I revealed in this thread about Ran's plans needing to have no obvious critical failure points, while Shin'ichi can go charging into Org. bases and just be "an hero". Double standards are not valid coherent differences of opinion, even for fictional characters. Saying that is not poor judgment, it's just amazing right.


That's surprisingly another moment I personally, again, as someone who doesn't particularly favor Ran (Note: do NOT hate her) I was more focused on Haibara's idiocy. As for why we don't point out Shinichi's "heroicness" that's because we know he's the idiot hero. After all, it's his recklessness that got the series started. IMO when people were discussing the 'critical failure points' of Ran's plan, I kind of imagined what it would've been like if Shinichi had been the one doing what she had. As you said he woulda just been the "hero" (personally "PFT, PLEASE"). To me, this is almost pointing to a subtle impression that people--though not directly saying it--had of Ran.

She's more careful than Shinichi. She's not the idiot he is, why is she doing something he would?

As somebody who actually does respect what Ran does from time to time, despite my opinion on her, this almost seemed to the edgepoint of OOC. I see Ran as an intelligent and careful girl so thinking back on the trunk scene I'm only wondering on consistency there.


ANYWAY. Sorry, I guess, as it's not really my place. But just needed to show there are some Ran "haters" (again, don't hate her, just a mild dislike) who do see past the "bashing" (there are many like me, I'm sure, btw)
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby 1Kaito » June 22nd, 2011, 11:21 pm

I feel bad for starting this heated debate between you guys :-\

sonoci wrote:As for why we don't point out Shinichi's "heroicness" that's because we know he's the idiot hero.

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sonoci wrote:People accent the negatives far more than the positives
That's true, which is extremely sad.
Last edited by 1Kaito on June 22nd, 2011, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby kkslider5552000 » June 23rd, 2011, 2:50 am

Nyarl wrote:Unless "profile" link/Haibara's face is now supposed to mean "delete", you are definitely imagining things. I'll give you credit for not blatantly lying, though, and assume someone else did it without your knowledge. If you are going to accuse me of lying, you'd better fix it before I get around to proving it, because I just might bother.

BTW, it's sad it takes a crazy Ran fan to point out the neat stuff she does that the "lol, Ran is dum" clique overlook. Like, has one single person given Ran any credit for figuring out the puzzle with the doll in the current anime case? Nope, they're too busy claiming she was sabotaging the investigation with her emotional outburst (because the threat was so imminent they needed to face it after a night's rest, they couldn't possibly take out a few minutes for that emo's selfish needs). Sorry, I'm a biased crazy fan, but I'm still right about the irrationally biased Ran bashing.

Ran's flaws? She really is the "sacrifice my life for love" type. Yep, I count that as a flaw. I disagree we really knew it was a flaw until the love fortune case, and that revealing it was a filler waste of time when we should have just had the Org. show up to kill her instead. Ran's monster phobia is a flaw. Not a "moe" one to me, either, Sonoko . Ran's sense of empathy is is yin/yang trait. Ie, both good and bad things come from it, from paralytic guilt to noble self-sacrifice. Ran was very obviously completely re-characterized around volume 5, when Sonoko was introduced to play of newly serious Ran, and perhaps the characters are forced to serve the plot a bit more often than their traits are used to shape plausible plots (valid inconsistent characterization criticism of Aoyama). So, yeah, your little "Ran and her portrayal are flawless" is a straw man.

Note the double standard I revealed in this thread about Ran's plans needing to have no obvious critical failure points, while Shin'ichi can go charging into Org. bases and just be "an hero". Double standards are not valid coherent differences of opinion, even for fictional characters. Saying that is not poor judgment, it's just amazing right.

BTW, you don't think "Slider" is relevant to a discussion about my inability to leave when it was his "ban him" post that got me flagging the delete in the first place? I shouldn't have taken him seriously? Just accept abuse and ridicule (because it would be arrogant to be offended) while walking on eggshells myself not allowing myself to snark blatant double standards (because it would be arrogant to belittle people for opinions)? No. And, amazing you for that double standard, too.

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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby ranger » June 23rd, 2011, 4:15 am

Slider you actually went to his/her fansite and trashed it? Bad Slider! can I get a link?
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby kkslider5552000 » June 23rd, 2011, 1:25 pm

ranger wrote:Slider you actually went to his/her fansite and trashed it?

this is news to me
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby Nyarl » June 23rd, 2011, 3:03 pm

ranger wrote:Slider you actually went to his/her fansite and trashed it? Bad Slider! can I get a link?


You'd have to find an internet cache link, sine it was a geosites page. It was an episode guide that cross referenced manga chapters with anime episodes, also listing recurring character appearances and plot flags. Presumably the plot flags were the "dumb and confusing" part, and I wasn't quite happy with them myself. Scope was between too abstract and too specific. Thought about adding detailed spoilers in the alt:text, doing both a manga order and anime order list, but just abandoned it. Now, I'm not going to be petulant and blame Slider for me abandoning the project, but it was a factor. DCTP had another manga->anime guide so it was a bit of a redundant effort, and that was the primary reason I stopped working on it and didn't move it when Yahoo shut geosites.
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Re: Most favorite and least favorite scene in the series

Postby kkslider5552000 » June 23rd, 2011, 7:39 pm

never heard of it
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