Defining Character Traits

[1Kaito]

I don't think that is being egotistical. It is just who he is.

This isn't really an argument.
If what you do, or "who you are" is defined as "egotistical", then you're probably an egotistical.

True, but what I meant was the fact that he just has to get involved with every case is just a part of who he is because he is a detective by heart so that doesn't necessarily mean it is a result of his ego.

[Wakarimashita]

Though to be fair to 1k, that is in Sonoko standards.

Sonoko's standards are pretty much the average standards of a girl her age.

Half an hour?

In DC, a lot happens in half an hour !

[1Kaito]

Yeah I know that's why I said "or at least not complain all the time about it"

Shinichi, when he had his body, elated to appear in front of cameras to talk about how great he is and bolster his name, which in my opinion makes the MPD look incompetent. This is despite not being able to act alone.

That was when he had his body though as you pointed out. Which was back in episode 1 which if you compare it to every other episode is completely different because of the sheer difference in personality and mannerism Ran and Shinichi have now(or even a couple episodes after) compared to episode 1.

He has no skills other than kicking a soccer ball and deducing. Where as Holmes could deduce almost better than anyone else (he stated his brother was more brilliant), a boxer with skills enough to rival the pros, a brilliant violinist, an expert at single stick, proficient at bartitsu, a brilliant chemist, and a master of disguise. Holmes, despite being able to solve every case, never did unless he was asked directly. For being such a great detective, Shinichi is lacking in the essential skill of being able to subdue a criminal, something it appears EVERY OTHER DETECTIVE in the series is capable of, including Kogorou.

Well those don't necessarily make him a better detective since deducing is the detective part. And you are right all he knows how to do is kick a soccer ball, but that is HIS way of subdueing criminals.

This is not to mention his actions have more than once ENDANGERED others, including himself. Holmes never let those who were not prepared or involved to get hurt, yet Shinichi has nearly gotten Kogorou sniped by Gin, been shot himself, nearly got all of the DBoys killed at the same time, got poisoned, which in all respects should have killed him, and drove someone to suicide. For a great detective he isn't very great. He doesn't make many mistakes, but when he does bad things happen, and not only to him but those around him.

No one is saying he is the perfect detective. He is a great one I mean you are comparing him to just Sherlock Holmes that is a little unfair that is probably one of the only people that people can is better than him so if you take into account not many people are better than him...

[Hazuki]

mangaluva has written several psychology revisions for some of the characters. I thought it would help in further defining the characters' traits. credits to her though

[ProfParanoia]

Though to be fair to 1k, that is in Sonoko standards.

Sonoko's standards are pretty much the average standards of a girl her age.

Half an hour?

In DC, a lot happens in half an hour !

Not in a half hour in DC time , that's just walking in the door.

[Dwalin]

I don’t agree that Shinichi is highly moral in his actions, since he never shows any pity for the murderers even though in 99,9% of the cases he solves they are just desperate people who had  committed murders out of despair, because their life was completely ruined by the “victimsâ€

[kyuuketsuki]

Yeah I know that's why I said "or at least not complain all the time about it"

Shinichi, when he had his body, elated to appear in front of cameras to talk about how great he is and bolster his name, which in my opinion makes the MPD look incompetent. This is despite not being able to act alone.

That was when he had his body though as you pointed out. Which was back in episode 1 which if you compare it to every other episode is completely different because of the sheer difference in personality and mannerism Ran and Shinichi have now(or even a couple episodes after) compared to episode 1.

He has no skills other than kicking a soccer ball and deducing. Where as Holmes could deduce almost better than anyone else (he stated his brother was more brilliant), a boxer with skills enough to rival the pros, a brilliant violinist, an expert at single stick, proficient at bartitsu, a brilliant chemist, and a master of disguise. Holmes, despite being able to solve every case, never did unless he was asked directly. For being such a great detective, Shinichi is lacking in the essential skill of being able to subdue a criminal, something it appears EVERY OTHER DETECTIVE in the series is capable of, including Kogorou.

Well those don't necessarily make him a better detective since deducing is the detective part. And you are right all he knows how to do is kick a soccer ball, but that is HIS way of subdueing criminals.

This is not to mention his actions have more than once ENDANGERED others, including himself. Holmes never let those who were not prepared or involved to get hurt, yet Shinichi has nearly gotten Kogorou sniped by Gin, been shot himself, nearly got all of the DBoys killed at the same time, got poisoned, which in all respects should have killed him, and drove someone to suicide. For a great detective he isn't very great. He doesn't make many mistakes, but when he does bad things happen, and not only to him but those around him.

No one is saying he is the perfect detective. He is a great one I mean you are comparing him to just Sherlock Holmes that is a little unfair that is probably one of the only people that people can is better than him so if you take into account not many people are better than him...

1) Again, that is not of his will,  but because he has to in fear of everyone around him being killed.

2) Kicking a soccer ball or other round object is not a method of subduing criminals. In fact, it is dependent on a kickable object being in his presence. He is considerably lucky that he has always been in such a situation. Also, if you consider the possibility of the criminal possessing good enough reaction to dodge or block, it becomes completely ineffective. (It isn't that hard to dodge a soccer ball)

3) Perfect or not, allowing a group of kids to be placed into a situation where they could be killed is downright stupid. Just for that I'd not consider him great. And that incident in the first episode? You know looking in on a deal without noticing that HIS PARTNER WHO HE SAID HAD A MURDEROUS LOOK TO HIS EYE was not around was a HUGE almost LETHAL oversight. I don't think ANYONE who can consider themselves a "great detective" would make an oversight like that. Not Heiji, Megure, hell I don't think even Kogorou would be THAT stupid. And in the NY case, yeah, the killer (Vermouth) had no silencer, and thus couldn't fire, but what guarantee did he have that the killer wouldn't CHOKE HIM TO DEATH? Ran wouldn't have been able to help, nor would he have been able to resist as he was holding Ran.
Also, I used Sherlock because his exploits are well known, I could have very easily used Yuusaku. In fact, let me do this now. Yuusaku is known only for his novels, ironically it is his wife that is known for detective work as the night baroness, due to repeating her husband's deductions, and he doesn't seem to mind. Yuusaku reportedly only occasionally helped out the MPD (as per Megure's explanation to Takagi in the airplane case). Yuusaku currently solves things from the shadows, trying not to get noticed. Hell he solved a case before his son without ever being seen by anyone. He also doesn't even think of trying to help his son take down a dangerous organization despite probably being able to, but instead suggests going to the ICPO.

Shinichi, no matter how you look at it, is egotistical. He doesn't have the experience or the skill set to be a great detective. He has the capacity to do so, but right now, he is just an egotistical arrogant kid.

[1Kaito]

[quote="Dwalin"]
He just thinks “It’s a murder! It’s a murder! It is wrong! It is wrong!â€

[kyuuketsuki]

[quote="Dwalin"]
I don’t agree that Shinichi is highly moral in his actions, since he never shows any pity for the murderers even though in 99,9% of the cases he solves they are just desperate people who had  committed murders out of despair, because their life was completely ruined by the “victimsâ€

[Dwalin]

No, I think he just understands that unless it was self-defense, murder shouldn't be justified.

It cannot be COMPLETELY justified, but in parts it can be, at least in cases like those presented by Gosho, otherwise the attenuating circumstances wouldn't have any influence in courts. It's easy to say that all murders are the same, but only until you find yourself in situations like those of the murderers in "Detective Conan".

[Stopwatch]

I have to wonder what Shinichi makes of Eisuke if he matches up to some of the people's descriptions in this thread. Don't forget that if Kir hadn't have stopped him Eisuke would have murdered his own sister, Conan either seems to have totally forgotten this, is accepting of his reason or has another opinion on it that he doesn't show to anyone. What would everyone here say that says about his character?
*Steps back and waits *

[1Kaito]

I don't see how murder in any situation can be justified though...unless it is self-defense

I have to wonder what Shinichi makes of Eisuke if he matches up to some of the people's descriptions in this thread. Don't forget that if Kir hadn't have stopped him Eisuke would have murdered his own sister, Conan either seems to have totally forgotten this, is accepting of his reason or has another opinion on it that he doesn't show to anyone. What would everyone here say that says about his character?
*Steps back and waits *

Well either A) He knew Kir would stop him B) he knew Eisuke wouldn't have the guts to do it or C) He didn't really have an opinion of it

[Dwalin]

I don't see how murder in any situation can be justified though...unless it is self-defense

Imagine then if someone roasted your family alive and the police just laughed at you for years while you tried to obtain justice in a legal way.

[1Kaito]

I don't see how murder in any situation can be justified though...unless it is self-defense

Imagine then if someone roasted your family alive and the police just laughed at you for years while you tried to obtain justice in a legal way.

I know it seems like a legitimate reason to kill someone, but still even in that situation murder isn't justified. That is taking someone's life away and for the sake of revenge makes it even worse.

[kyuuketsuki]

I don't see how murder in any situation can be justified though...unless it is self-defense

Imagine then if someone roasted your family alive and the police just laughed at you for years while you tried to obtain justice in a legal way.

Well... murder is murder... nothing really justifies it, we just justify it in our heads like you just did. Doesn't change the fact that you are extinguishing a life for the purposes of "revenge." Which is why it is still illegal. In fact there are only 4 ways I can think of to commit murder and get away with it (sort of). 1) Join the army and kill all the insurgents you want. Hey its war, you can kill all the people who don't agree with your country as you like so long as they have a gun. 2) Join a law enforcement organization. Hell you could probably fake self-defense and get away with it, and I'm pretty sure that has been done too) 3) Plead criminal insanity. Will get you a lessened sentence and probably a room with nice cushioned walls. 4) Plead that it was a Crime of Passion (this of course requires it to be as such), and get a lessened sentence or have them rule in your favor due to being emotionally compromised.

You can try to justify the reasons of murder all you want, but letting a murderer go because he had a really really good reason just doesn't work. Mainly because you don't know their reasons and never will. For all you know they could have had their own reasons for justification. Like with yours, what happens if your parent set fire to a building and the murderer's family died in the fire. Your parent blamed it on your little brother who "was playing with a box of matches he found." And your parent, though the fire was likely an accident, got off scott free despite being guilty of unintentional arson. There are always multiple sides to a story, and you never know the reasons why people do what they do, which is my murder is illegal until it is determined that their actions were entirely malice in intent. You can't take the law into your own hands and pass the death sentence on someone.