Did Gosho violated...

[Found]

the detective can turn out to be the criminal.

This sounds good.

[s]I know of a Christie book where this is the case. The name slips me.[/s]

EDIT:

Spoiler: which book

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. There you go. Not really the detective, but the narrator. I know that's included in Van Dine's too, so I guess it counts.

Anyway, another point of the creation of the rules is that the reader has an equal opportunity as the detective to solve the case. Conan violates this a lot-- it's especially annoying when Heiji is there, 'cause Conan finds some valuable, case-cracking evidence and they start talking about 'it', but never identify it until they're about to unveil the culprit.

[Freyr]

the detective can turn out to be the criminal.

This sounds good.

[s]I know of a Christie book where this is the case. The name slips me.[/s]

EDIT:

Spoiler: which book

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd. There you go. Not really the detective, but the narrator. I know that's included in Van Dine's too, so I guess it counts.

Anyway, another point of the creation of the rules is that the reader has an equal opportunity as the detective to solve the case. Conan violates this a lot-- it's especially annoying when Heiji is there, 'cause Conan finds some valuable, case-cracking evidence and they start talking about 'it', but never identify it until they're about to unveil the culprit.

Believe that stems from the Holmes connection and love. Conan Doyle did the same thing in that Holmes figured out the cause because of some knowledge the reader didn't get--sometimes through personal investigation Watson doesn't attend, or through the baker street irregulars reporting findings to Holmes. End result is Holmes providing a name for the culprit that is first introduced in the book on that line.

So take these "rules" with a grain of salt. We've established that the two most globally known and respected mystery authors, Christie and Doyle, didn't necessarily follow these conventions.

[Found]

They are hard to follow. As a writer myself, I like adding a little twist to my endings. The Knox and Dine rules shut off most of the most common ones, and makes it hard. Nowadays it's really hard to find anyone that follows the rules anymore.

[Akonyl]

This isn't really a valid answer to that specific criticism, to be honest. I don't mean that what you have said is invalid, but more that it only covers the existence of the occasionally implausible disguises--not their superabundance.

Most fans that criticize the rampant disguises are not questioning that it is a trait of Kid's or that it was introduced (somewhat) early in the series--instead, they are questioning the frequency in which it plays a part in other plots in the series. If it had remained unique to Kid and were used solely in his stories, it would have been a given that that was a trait of his that he somehow was able to pull off. By writing in disguises at every turn in non-Kid cases just because it's more convenient than developing a more original or engaging plot, it serves only to undermine the quality of those stories. As a result of how frequent the disguises have become, Kid has become a sideshow. The many masters of disguise have undermined his own character--his expert ability to disguise is clearly not unique in the least, making him just another character instead of the exciting one he used to be.

To put it in fewer words: Gosho is free to do what he wishes, but his work is far from being above criticism (much to the chagrin of some). As I posted above, just because it can be explained away does not validate it as anything but lackluster and predictable plotting.

oh, by no means did I mean that rampant usage of crazy disguises is good writing, I would just say it's not necessarily heinous enough to write a rule about. As long as precedence is set, the reader may be able to figure out that a disguise is being used, and solve the mystery on their own. The only thing that rules should really be made specifically against imo are things that make it impossible for the reader to deduce the mystery on their own as it's occurring, such as having a super-serious 50s mystery and then finishing it with "A wizard did it".

Now, whether it's good mystery or not is entirely up to question, but I feel that's more up to the reader's interpretation and so you shouldn't really make rules based on that. Except, you definitely shouldn't put a Chinaman in your stories.

[Found]

If I could, Akonyl, I would pay to see you play Umineko.

[Kleene Onigiri]

Apotoxin is not much of a problem because it was introduced at the beginning, and it is strictly confined to one particular part of the story. The required suspension of disbelief can therefore be restricted, not upsetting the rest of series.

But as Jd said disguises became a common, trivial device that can be pulled off anytime when convenient. The worst is that it undermines the rest of the series, any case could have a different resolution assuming someone used disguise. So even if less unrealistic, it is its usage the makes it a problem.

Spoiler: story stuff

The disguise plot is almost as old as the APTX one. (If you count in MK, then disguises are even older. But I don't count it)
Since the first disguise used in DC was with yukiko in chapter 49. Where she disguised as the fat lady and pretended to be BO and kidnapped Conan. So Gosho planned such disguises early on. Since at that time (chapter 49), he still didn't thought that DC would run that long.

Meaning KID didn't introduce such disguises into DC. KID is just a guest role anyway.
But instead it was a early shown method that gosho would use.

First time it was used for a real BO case was with Vermouth. Since Vermouth can disguise herself too. But in the new york case, we saw Yukiko there too, which could have indicated a disguise plot.
Yukiko disguised Conan and Heiji during the vermouth arc. But since it was during the vermouth arc it kinda counts like one disguise arc.

After that arc, Vermouth used a disguise for her job. But we already knew that she can do that.

We think that Okiya is also using a disguise. Tho it could also be plastic surgery or dyed hair + glasses which make him close his eyes or he just looks like that cuz he's Okiya.
Also people think Bourbon is scar akai. In case that's true, then it's not "strange" that he was disguised by Vermouth for example. Since Yukiko was able to disguise Conan and Heiji too, but they weren't able to mimic the voices without the bow-tie. We also never heard Scar Akai talk around people that know akai :x
But we also know that Bourbon hates Akai. And from the "Shinichi is the murderer" case, the culprit did a surgery to look like the person he hates and blame shinichi for a murder. So, Bourbon could have done the same (which wouldn't be a disguise anymore). [inb4 scar akai goes out with jodie and will be a total ass to her XD]

In short: Disguise was introduced early on by yukiko and not KID. Disguises were used a lot during the Vermouth arc. True that. But the BO plots that followed, there weren't so many disguises used anymore, or more like, we can't know if those are such disguises that Vermouth and Yukiko are using.

Also, Gosho uses "silly" disguises too. Like the glasses Conan put on to fool Ran Tho that didn't work so great with Haibara XD

[Found]

If we consider Conan's glasses to be a disguise, then the idea of disguising as someone else is introduced in EP1.

... actually, the existence of APTX itself.

[Kor]

Apotoxin is not much of a problem because it was introduced at the beginning, and it is strictly confined to one particular part of the story. The required suspension of disbelief can therefore be restricted, not upsetting the rest of series.

But as Jd said disguises became a common, trivial device that can be pulled off anytime when convenient. The worst is that it undermines the rest of the series, any case could have a different resolution assuming someone used disguise. So even if less unrealistic, it is its usage the makes it a problem.

Spoiler: story stuff

The disguise plot is almost as old as the APTX one. (If you count in MK, then disguises are even older. But I don't count it)
Since the first disguise used in DC was with yukiko in chapter 49. Where she disguised as the fat lady and pretended to be BO and kidnapped Conan. So Gosho planned such disguises early on. Since at that time (chapter 49), he still didn't thought that DC would run that long.

Meaning KID didn't introduce such disguises into DC. KID is just a guest role anyway.
But instead it was a early shown method that gosho would use.

First time it was used for a real BO case was with Vermouth. Since Vermouth can disguise herself too. But in the new york case, we saw Yukiko there too, which could have indicated a disguise plot.
Yukiko disguised Conan and Heiji during the vermouth arc. But since it was during the vermouth arc it kinda counts like one disguise arc.

After that arc, Vermouth used a disguise for her job. But we already knew that she can do that.

We think that Okiya is also using a disguise. Tho it could also be plastic surgery or dyed hair + glasses which make him close his eyes or he just looks like that cuz he's Okiya.
Also people think Bourbon is scar akai. In case that's true, then it's not "strange" that he was disguised by Vermouth for example. Since Yukiko was able to disguise Conan and Heiji too, but they weren't able to mimic the voices without the bow-tie. We also never heard Scar Akai talk around people that know akai :x
But we also know that Bourbon hates Akai. And from the "Shinichi is the murderer" case, the culprit did a surgery to look like the person he hates and blame shinichi for a murder. So, Bourbon could have done the same (which wouldn't be a disguise anymore). [inb4 scar akai goes out with jodie and will be a total ass to her XD]

In short: Disguise was introduced early on by yukiko and not KID. Disguises were used a lot during the Vermouth arc. True that. But the BO plots that followed, there weren't so many disguises used anymore, or more like, we can't know if those are such disguises that Vermouth and Yukiko are using.

Also, Gosho uses "silly" disguises too. Like the glasses Conan put on to fool Ran Tho that didn't work so great with Haibara XD

The problem is that it's not plot-related only. It can be also in your regular cases such as Mermaid island, Red Wall or just Sato puts on herself glasses and pretending to be Koboyashi. There are simply way too many times when disguising is either the trick or the solution.
You also forgot to mention Desperate Revival

[Kleene Onigiri]

The problem is that it's not plot-related only. It can be also in your regular cases such as Mermaid island, Red Wall or just Sato puts on herself glasses and pretending to be Koboyashi. There are simply way too many times when disguising is either the trick or the solution.
You also forgot to mention Desperate Revival

So you see "putting on glasses" as a perfect disguise? XD

And I did mention Desperate Revival with "Conan get's disguised by Yukiko". I counted it into the Vermouth arc.

[Akonyl]

If I could, Akonyl, I would pay to see you play Umineko.

given that I've seen Higurashi, I wouldn't be too surprised when the witch turns out to be a witch.

And I don't know how the games go exactly, but if the game sets you up to the possibility that she is in fact a witch, even if the characters don't want to believe it, I wouldn't think it'd bee all too bad if she actually turns out to be one. As long as it's not out of the blue, it's fine.

I'm talking more the case of (Sherlock Holmes movie spoilers)

Spoiler:

At the beginning of the movie, when he gets Blackwood arrested, he makes a quick point of explaining away the entire occult ceremony, showing that everything's based on logic and that magic doesn't really exist.

At the end of the movie, he also explains all the magic that Blackwood performed, such as the poison he used to appear dead so that he could "rise from the grave". Had Sherlock instead explained this with "oh, I dunno. I bet that part was magic!", I would have been pretty angry.

[ProfParanoia]

So you see "putting on glasses" as a perfect disguise? XD

Spoiler: DC Movie

That actually tripped me up in movie 7, when the bad guy guy revealed himself I had no clue who he was . All because he took his glasses off and changed expressions.

[Kleene Onigiri]

So you see "putting on glasses" as a perfect disguise? XD

Spoiler: DC Movie

That actually tripped me up in movie 7, when the bad guy guy revealed himself I had no clue who he was . All because he took his glasses off and changed expressions.

Ah, true I thought the same Tho I still wouldn't count that as a "perfect disguise", since you could still recognize him (since my brother did)

[Kor]

So you see "putting on glasses" as a perfect disguise? XD

No, but I do see it as a disguise.

And I did mention Desperate Revival with "Conan get's disguised by Yukiko". I counted it into the Vermouth arc.

But Conan doesn't get disguised by Yukiku in Desperate Revival.

[Kleene Onigiri]

So you see "putting on glasses" as a perfect disguise? XD

No, but I do see it as a disguise.

And I did mention Desperate Revival with "Conan get's disguised by Yukiko". I counted it into the Vermouth arc.

But Conan doesn't get disguised by Yukiku in Desperate Revival.

Oh, Iforgot to add that then, that Haibara was disguised as Conan XD
So yeah, adding to that, haibara disguised as conan once. And Conan as Haibara later on. Still connected to vermouth tho.

[Wakarimashita]

Apotoxin is not much of a problem because it was introduced at the beginning, and it is strictly confined to one particular part of the story. The required suspension of disbelief can therefore be restricted, not upsetting the rest of series.

But as Jd said disguises became a common, trivial device that can be pulled off anytime when convenient. The worst is that it undermines the rest of the series, any case could have a different resolution assuming someone used disguise. So even if less unrealistic, it is its usage the makes it a problem.

Spoiler: story stuff

The disguise plot is almost as old as the APTX one. (If you count in MK, then disguises are even older. But I don't count it)
Since the first disguise used in DC was with yukiko in chapter 49. Where she disguised as the fat lady and pretended to be BO and kidnapped Conan. So Gosho planned such disguises early on. Since at that time (chapter 49), he still didn't thought that DC would run that long.

Meaning KID didn't introduce such disguises into DC. KID is just a guest role anyway.
But instead it was a early shown method that gosho would use.

First time it was used for a real BO case was with Vermouth. Since Vermouth can disguise herself too. But in the new york case, we saw Yukiko there too, which could have indicated a disguise plot.
Yukiko disguised Conan and Heiji during the vermouth arc. But since it was during the vermouth arc it kinda counts like one disguise arc.

After that arc, Vermouth used a disguise for her job. But we already knew that she can do that.

We think that Okiya is also using a disguise. Tho it could also be plastic surgery or dyed hair + glasses which make him close his eyes or he just looks like that cuz he's Okiya.
Also people think Bourbon is scar akai. In case that's true, then it's not "strange" that he was disguised by Vermouth for example. Since Yukiko was able to disguise Conan and Heiji too, but they weren't able to mimic the voices without the bow-tie. We also never heard Scar Akai talk around people that know akai :x
But we also know that Bourbon hates Akai. And from the "Shinichi is the murderer" case, the culprit did a surgery to look like the person he hates and blame shinichi for a murder. So, Bourbon could have done the same (which wouldn't be a disguise anymore). [inb4 scar akai goes out with jodie and will be a total ass to her XD]

In short: Disguise was introduced early on by yukiko and not KID. Disguises were used a lot during the Vermouth arc. True that. But the BO plots that followed, there weren't so many disguises used anymore, or more like, we can't know if those are such disguises that Vermouth and Yukiko are using.

Also, Gosho uses "silly" disguises too. Like the glasses Conan put on to fool Ran Tho that didn't work so great with Haibara XD

The problem is that it's not plot-related only. It can be also in your regular cases such as Mermaid island, Red Wall or just Sato puts on herself glasses and pretending to be Koboyashi. There are simply way too many times when disguising is either the trick or the solution.
You also forgot to mention Desperate Revival

Spoiler: manga spoler

Let's not forget the London Case with Yukiko disguising herself as well as Hades.