Why does Vermouth cares so much?...

[SkyVenger]

I wonder if Vermont is really a bad person?
Sure, she does pretty dreadful things, but sometimes not.
She didn't kill Ran. She didn't let Gin know that the Kudo Shinichi he killed before was still alive, but as Edogawa Conan, a grade school boy. And she gives up on Ai.
...
Euh... She didn't have a lot of choices to do that because of the circunstances.

But remember when she was disguised as Araide-sensei?
All the people who were her patients said that she took really good care of them.
Even the real Araide-sensei asked Jodie-sensei if Vermont was a really bad person?

Now me too, I want to know Vermont's background before she joined the BO.

Perfect disguise, my friend (even Jodie says so). A talent that even the current Kaitou Kid can not fully perform or execute - remember, when he disguised as police and screwed up because of memorizing his ID number (I say it's lack of personality analysis - he focused too much on personal data). It's fully understandable because Vermouth is older and has a lot more experience that Kaito, and as a BO member, she has to leave no trace of identity suspicions. Kid screwed up a lot more times than her...

[Aluecard]

that so true  8)

[torin]

Perfect disguise, my friend (even Jodie says so). A talent that even the current Kaitou Kid can not fully perform or execute - remember, when he disguised as police and screwed up because of memorizing his ID number (I say it's lack of personality analysis - he focused too much on personal data). It's fully understandable because Vermouth is older and has a lot more experience that Kaito, and as a BO member, she has to leave no trace of identity suspicions. Kid screwed up a lot more times than her...

I believe that the reason why Jodie-sensei thinks like that, it's because she had a bad experiences with Vermont.
She saw Vermont murdered her father when she was young.
Which is why her judgement is a little bit impaired.
Jodie-sensei became a FBI agent because of that, which means she is deeply affected by Vermont.

But what would be her judgement of Vermont if Vermont didn't murder her father?

Which bring me back to my question.
Is Vermont very a bad person?

[Aluecard]

i think she a good and bad person at the same time but rily she a good person cus of the time  she procteck  conan  she must have  thot back  on the buss

[SkyVenger]

All people have good and bad sides. But what makes you think that Vermouth is "good" is that she is protective of the main character (Conan/Shinichi) or maybe of his leading lady. Usual impression made by many, but if she was protective of someone else (like an extra character), she would be rarely labeled as "kind" or "good". In fact, Vermouth is being "kind" in only very few special occasions, not including when she disguised as Araide and helped out in the school for it was part of her disguise (except the scene in the bus where "he" defended Conan from the criminals)

And torin, remember it's not only in Jodie's case where Vermouth killed with a smile. There's also the Shadow of BO (part 4) episode, and maybe a lot more from behind the scenes. Jodie might be over-exaggerating in her description due to anger and might appear subjective, but nonetheless, it's still factual.

[DKMaester]

I believe the reason Vermouth cares about Shinishi and Ran is not only because Ran saved her and what Shinishi said but also because she did not believe someone so "good" could exist. When she fist meets Shinishi and Ran says says something along the lines of " I wonder if there really is a God. He has never done anything for me." After the incident she is talking on the phone and says something like: "I was sent an Angel." I believe she had lost faith in humanity and Shinishi and Ran made her somewhat regain that faith.

[ShinRan36]

I believe the reason Vermouth cares about Shinishi and Ran is not only because Ran saved her and what Shinishi said but also because she did not believe someone so "good" could exist. When she fist meets Shinishi and Ran says says something along the lines of " I wonder if there really is a God. He has never done anything for me." After the incident she is talking on the phone and says something like: "I was sent an Angel." I believe she had lost faith in humanity and Shinishi and Ran made her somewhat regain that faith.

These are the words, I also wanted to say..

[Abs.]

Also, in the 13th Movie, the actual literal translation of Irish's line when he says, "No wonder Vermouth thinks so highly of you," is "No wonder Vermout fell in love with you..."

You, sir or madam, are wrong.

[Abs.]

Also, in the 13th Movie, the actual literal translation of Irish's line when he says, "No wonder Vermouth thinks so highly of you," is "No wonder Vermout fell in love with you..."

You, sir or madam, are wrong.

It's true!!

Here's the Romaji version: "Berumotto ga horeru wake da..."

Berumotto- Vermouth (Japanese pronounciation)
horeru- fall in love with

I KNOW because I speak Japanese and even Heiji uses that word a couple of times...

horeru does not only mean "to fall in love with"

It also means "to be charmed by," "to admire"

Therefore, it is not "the actual literal translation" - "fell in love with" is taking it a bit too far from the context of the dialogue.

[Kor]

True, it sounds kinda stange for her to fall in love with Shinichi, but those phrases that you just put up all come back to "to fall in love with." Also, the first thing that comes to mind for most Japanese people when they use "horeru" is "to fall in love with"

in a non-canon movie, such statement is pointless. The writers can screw up here and there (Kaito knows Conan's identity). But to decide out of the blue that Vermouth loves Conan is stupid. How come "to be charmed" or "to admire" are the same thing or lead to "fall in love"? these are all very different.

[Callid]

I believe the reason Vermouth cares about Shinishi and Ran is not only because Ran saved her and what Shinishi said but also because she did not believe someone so "good" could exist. When she fist meets Shinishi and Ran says says something along the lines of " I wonder if there really is a God. He has never done anything for me." After the incident she is talking on the phone and says something like: "I was sent an Angel." I believe she had lost faith in humanity and Shinishi and Ran made her somewhat regain that faith.

I do agree.
I think it's a good idea to compare Vermouth with Sherry (and later Ai). While both don't care about killing people they don't know, they do not help the BO to kill certain people threatening it.
Both of them make this "too warm"-experience (see above), although at different points of their development, and both of them consider personal relationships more important than loyalty to the BO. Both of them change (or are changing) from enemies of FBI/Conan to important allies.
I think Vermouth had left the organization already if it wouldn't endanger here and if it weren't for her relation to the boss.

[mangaluva]

Vermouth seems to me one of the most complex characters in the manga and she's hiding a lot; it's very difficult to get a proper read on her without knowing her secrets, which she seems unlikely to share. I do think that her protecting Ran and Shinichi was more than just a life debt; if it was just that, she would have no reason to promise not to go after Ai as well. She seems to genuinely care for them, and doesn't want to risk them getting hurt; I actually get the impression that she may secretly be a better person than she lets on (yes, her being so nice as Araide may just have been acting, but Araide seemed to feel that she was being even nicer than he normally was; Somehow, I get the impression that she relished the chance to play nice for a while). Her motives for joining the Syndicate may explain a bit more about her; again, I get the impression that she doesn't really enjoy doing what she does, and seems to clearly desire that the Organization be destroyed. She's just strange, and I'd love even a little more information on who she really is. She acts all the time.

[GinRei]

Aoyama-sensei writes most of the script in the movies though... And he does have to check over all the linees to make sure that none of the movies mess anything up in the actual manga...

No he doesn't.  He can review them if he'd like, but he doesn't have to.  Proof?  Movie 10 creates a plot hole where supposedly Heiji has never met Hakuba before, yet they met in that one case where they're on the island.  And even if the movie takes place before that case, he's never met him before in that case either.  Plot hole.

[GinRei]

He just has to do that because they need to adjust the movies to the manga, since it would be kinda strange to the people who watch only the movies. That's why they also made Kogoro find out about "Yamamura-keibu" in Movie 13, even though he already learned in the manga.

Yamamura isn't an Inspector in the manga.

And on the covers of the manga adaptations of the actual movies (where they cut out all the little screenshots and stick them in a single manga volume) he says on the 3rd Movie one:

"The one thing I wanted to do the most in this movie was to make Kaitou KID say 'Ladies and Gentlemen' at the top of Tsuuten-kaku"

Then, on the 9th movie one he goes:
"I couldn't think of a good way for Kogoro to connect with Eri in his special line at the end of his deduction, so I had one of the staff members help me with that."

He has input, but he doesn't write the scripts.  I believe that privilege would go to:

Movie 3 -
Director: Kenji Kodama
Screenplay: Kazunari Kouchi
Storyboard: Kenji Kodama
Story Cooperation: Mitomu Asai, Toyohiko Okuyama

Movie 9 -
Director: Yasuichiro Yamamoto
Screenplay: Kazunari Kouchi
Storyboard: Yasuichiro Yamamoto
Story Cooperation: Mitsuhiro Tori, Shinichi Mikami, Shinichiro Tsuzuki, Toyohiko Okuyama
Story Editor: Junichi Iioka

[kkslider5552000]

I seriously don't care what you think

translation: I was wrong and/or suck at debating