Mistake? or Mystery? [About Vermouth]

[Abs.]

I have had a theory for a long time. We are lead to believe that but for Sherry not one knows what the drug does. My theory would turn this on its head. What if the higher ups in the BO know that truth? What if Conan was a planned experiment? That would mean that Sherry, THE BOSS, Gin and Vermount know the truth. How would that change the picture? Sherry needed to join Conan to keep an eye on her experiment.

Also Agasa is dead and Bourbon disguised in his place.

[xpon]

xOx you made feel like an idiot (no comments, please XD) just one. I read it on holidays but now I been reading some ramdom chapters (just the more important), so... I guess that's explain my stupidity xOx

Well, the second thing (about the translate) I read it on onemanga.com and sometimes the scan guy change and sometimes the scans were pretty bad xOx

sorry.. really dont mean that far.. just tease you... ha ha ha


@Abs.
you stay to far away from the main topic.

[randompi314159]

i personally think....pandora. the rumors had to start somehow and knowing vermouth's tendancy for games found it and hid it again. she's an inside traitor (i think) she wants shinichi to tak them down

Yeah, I think she could be a traitor, working for some other org.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

how the heck Vermouth doesnt's age? well, my first though was that she take the APTX4869 but, how? If she take it that means that the B.O knows about the effect that cause and that would mean (for them) that Shinichi is still alive, then? how she did it to don't age?

Copypasta from something I posted in the manga board, but doesn't contain spoilers. It is only spoilered so people who don't want to read the same thing over don't have to.

Spoiler:

The problem with the Vermouth taking the current form of APTX 4869 theory is that the time frame is potentially off. According to chap 423.10 and 11, Atsushi went off to research what was presumably the APTX4869 30 years before the present storyline date. (Now that I think about it, he's pretty old to be Haibara's father; he would probably be at least fifty in the current time if he was still alive. Elena was probably younger than he was.) He died when Haibara was a kid so I'm going to presume there was about a ten year break in the research. Shiho Miyano has succeeded him fairly recently; she probably only has a year or two at most of APTX project work under her belt after graduating. It is likely that the mouse shrinking results of APTX 4869 Shiho observed have not been reported to her superiors, otherwise the superiors would not be using it as a poison if there was a risk of it deaging someone. I would also think the Organization would have taken deaging into consideration when looking for Shiho if they knew about it, since Pisco exclaimed he had no idea the research had been taken as far as it had. Thus, I don't think Vermouth would have taken the current incarnation of APTX 4869 since it's deaging effect is apparently unknown and is currently being used a poison.
Also one other thing to note about Vermouth is that she may predate even Sharon Vineyard. Sharon’s mother may also Vermouth because she died in a fire on the day Sharon debuted which is highly suspicious and very similar to the way Sharon Vineyard "died" around Chris' debut. (vol 35-1 page 2) Sharon may not be Vermouth’s first alias. Vermouth would have to be 70-85 if Sharon's mom was the same person. If this is the case, it also likely means that APTX 4869 in its current incarnation - a project started by the Miyanos - isn’t the source of Vermouth’s apparent failure to age. Shiho’s parents and their experiments are too young to account for the timepoint. It would have to be Shiho’s grandparents or something else.
Now Haibara did say Kudo was part of a project the org had been working on for half a century. (The soccer stadium case) It could be that APTX 4869 is one sub-project of a cluster of projects looking at deaging and Vermouth was a part of one of these other ones that long predated the story timeline. APTX 4869 may have evolved out of this earlier project after Vermouth was a success case that couldn't be replicated. It might explain why she hates the Miyano parents and why she is the boss's favorite.

And also is that Chris = Sharon and also the killer of Jodie's father (Jodie was 6-7 years old that time, and as we know the killer was young and pretty) so, she killed Jodie's father, and appeared on the trip to New York as Sharon Vineyard, but she also appeared as Chris Vineyard in front of Conan (when she try to take Haibara disguised as Araide), that means that after the trip to N.Y. she became younger by NO REASON seemingly.

I resolved this contradiction by assuming she actually looked young at the time of the New York case, but was disguising her appearance in order to look older and give the appearance of natural aging.

And also when she calls Gin (after she try to take Haibara disguised as Araide and then she takes Conan on her car but Conan have a dispositive and blablabla...) when Vermouth told Gin about Shuuichi, he said "Oh, yeah... that FBI agent that you almost killed a year ago when you lured him out disguising yourself as a phantom killer in New York". That means that he already knew about Chris = Sharon and he never have asked why she don't age?

Akai and Jodie may not have known Chris is Sharon 1 year ago. Chris only came out in public extensively after Sharon's "funeral" which was after the NY case. If I remember correctly that was when Jodie got ahold of the two sets of fingerprints after the funeral and made the connection. Incidentally, the pressure put on her by the FBI may have been the reason Vermouth chose to turn over her disguise, so the FBI lose the ability to prosecute her because she is too young and nobody would believe she deaged.

1. Gin is not the best friend for Vermouth ( they usually have a bad term. why? because i think gin is jealous with vermouth being the Boss most loved one)

I think there are two main reasons Gin doesn't like or trust Vermouth. One is because he doesn't like her independent secret keeping style of working. (Manga chap 700 or so spoiler) Gin notes he is on bad terms with Bourbon because he shared the same independent secret keeping tendencies. (End) The second reason is I think Gin senses that Vermouth is the kind of person who would choose to do things that aren't in the best interest of the org. for her own personal interest. Although Gin doesn't know she is bordering on traitor by protecting Conan and Ai from the Org, I think Gin is aware that Vermouth has the potential to hide something of this magnitude which makes Gin worry that Vermouth may cause serious problems someday.


In regards to Magic Kaito and Pandora... there is no way in heck that's canon to DC. DC invokes magic through scientific explanations only and at least tries to cover it up with a thin layer of facts and sense. (note try != succeed) Magic Kaito just invokes magic as magic and doesn't even attempt to disguise it. The Pandora myth makes no sense either. If the comet came by once every 10,000 years, it would predate all known written history by about 5,000 years, so how would anyone know about Pandora? Also, even if someone used Pandora, unless it provides invincible immortality rather than biological immortality, there's a significant chance that person would have already died in prehistorical times due to disease, accident, or killed for being a devil or something like that. I firmly believe there will be another explanation for Vermouth's aging that doesn't involve gems or comets even as a cover for the real reason. If there is a "Pandora" in DC, it's going to be some sort of weird biochemical mess like APTX whose effects the Org has been unable to replicate since.

I have had a theory for a long time. We are lead to believe that but for Sherry not one knows what the drug does. My theory would turn this on its head. What if the higher ups in the BO know that truth? What if Conan was a planned experiment? That would mean that Sherry, THE BOSS, Gin and Vermount know the truth. How would that change the picture? Sherry needed to join Conan to keep an eye on her experiment.

There was a thread about this a while back that you started actually. Although it's on the spoiler board, the first page at least is safe. My take on it in brief was that the theory was improbable because it required the B.O. to be absurdly dysfunctional and impossibly omniscient to predict Conan's moves, and also needed overly elaborate explanations for the motivations of certain characters to be consistent with the idea that they are only acting. I give more details a few posts down in the above link.

Long post is long.

[Akemi~chan]

gee Chek.....blow everyones theories out of the water like a bomb. sheesh.

[cherrya]

how about this..
vermouth join B.O when she was young...
and she never ages because she can change her appearance into the younger one...

[Abs.]

The Pandora myth makes no sense either. If the comet came by once every 10,000 years, it would predate all known written history by about 5,000 years, so how would anyone know about Pandora? Also, even if someone used Pandora, unless it provides invincible immortality rather than biological immortality, there's a significant chance that person would have already died in prehistorical times due to disease, accident, or killed for being a devil or something like that.

Vermouth and the Boss were the ones who used Pandora 10,000 years ago, and they can't die because they're the main baddies.  So there. 

[pofa]

Vermouth doesn't age because she's a homunculus anokata made when he was trying to transmute his dead girlfriend.

I don't have much to contribute that hasn't already been said at some point, but if we go with the theory that Vermouth's disguise goes back even further than Sharon, does that mean she predates the organization (and is older than anokata)? Rather than Vermouth taking advantage of the Org's research in some way to de-age herself, maybe her failure to age is the reason the Org got started in the first place. Could be why she's anokata's favorite.

[Chekhov MacGuffin]

gee Chek.....blow everyones theories out of the water like a bomb. sheesh.

Arrest me now then! I admit... I killed this thread in cold blood!
Seriously though, maybe I should stop commenting on people's theories if it makes it less fun for other people...

[Kleene Onigiri]

gee Chek.....blow everyones theories out of the water like a bomb. sheesh.

Arrest me now then! I admit... I killed this thread in cold blood!
Seriously though, maybe I should stop commenting on people's theories if it makes it less fun for other people...

I like your ideas/critics You have to rethink your own theory that way.


I always thought that just the BO boss and the drug developers know what the drug is really for. And that they tested it on Vermouth and that's why she's also the BO boss favorite.

Another idea I had was, that Vermouth could have been cloned instead of taking the APTX4869 (or similar drug). If she was cloned, then she would have the same DNA, so she would also have the same appearance (or a similar appearance) and the fingerprints should match too with her "mother"/the one she was cloned from.
So Vermouth being the "favorite" could be because she was a successful experiment and maybe also because the "mother" was someone dear to the boss.

And since DC started 1994, there wasn't much knowledge about cloning yet. And there was the basic idea from the public, that cloned people would live longer or would not age at all too. (tho the cloned sheep dolly died earlier than expected and it was said that this was because of the cloning)

Since the BO is already involved in developing drugs and try to create a certain program, cloning wouldn't be too far fetched Especially if their goal really is to extend someones live.

[KaitoGirl]

Damn, I'm completely disarmed, you won Chekhov x3 I guess there's no more need to post more theories about this, but I still have another doubts about the whole B.O thing... and I will make another theme of that soon, just let me prepare properly to make things a little harder LOL  ;D thanks to everyone that post their theories here LOL

Chekhov, well played, and you are really smart, I'm really suprised, but I must said that I too proud to give me up so easily, don't take it bad I like defend my position but also have some hard-time thinking how to defend my theory, that's make this game more interesting.  ;) soooooo... without resentments?

I hope so.