Conan+Ayumi

[TheBlind]

Reply April fools style

Well, these questions were indeed possible reasons why he would have made [s]her cry[/s] made her have a mental breakdown.
And as I said: Having her have it in his chest increased the impact.
Beside... he was the one she was talking with when it happened. He was closest to her.

Spoiler:

He could of created impact by having Ai hold herself while crying and shunning Conan, so we know it's not solely based on that.

The scenario is that he can't have Ran anymore. He had to accept reality that it is not possible anymore. He had to admit defeat, for the sake of Ran herself. He can't decide for her that she has to wait for him to grow up again and stay faithful to him if an antidote is not possible.
Then, when Ran is no longer an option and he is getting open for a new relationship he will notice Ayumi who is his physical age and who is very similar to Ran.
This is no opinion - people in real live will be more attracted to partners with similar characteristics as their previous partner(s). Those traits are their preferences so they will find them attractive again when they encounter a different person with them. This is an experience I made myself as well.

Spoiler:

Wait..did you just change my scenario ON ME?! .
I don't mind but this just caught me off guard" NO, the scenario you laid out didn't happen like that, it happened LIKE THIS!" .

First, personal experiences are not law. Second, what you have stated is not fact because humans are also known to disown/shun/dislike/discard/deny people who remind them of painful events. So nothing proves your scenario that Ayumi being similar to Ran is a strength. Unless something painful happens in relation to Ran(she vanishes, leaves him, or dies) Shinichi will still continue to try to get back to her. Shinichi also disproves your "what if" scenario himself in the canon when he stated he rather remove himself from Ran's heart than continue to hurt her...but guess what? He's hurt her a few times since then but continues to try to get back to her, love makes people stupid; I don't see Shinichi giving up on Ran willingly which means I never see him settling for a imitation if he's forced to live without Ran(Ran is no longer there for him).

And why would Haibara agree on a mission to actively investigate the BO? Even in the security of a strong agency like interpol, she would have to leave her best cover, she couldn't pretend to be a normal kid anymore. All it takes is one mole in that organization to discover and kill her.
Aside from the point that she would have to leave the professor and all the other friends behind.

Spoiler:

Nothing, yep nothing. See this is my point, what if arguments can't be proven so that's it. It's just a possibility among other possibilities that can be counter with other possibilities. I don't have to prove it but I already stated it's a "what if" possibility, this is why "what ifs" are useless when being compared to events that actually have proof, something Ayumi become a better candidate for Conan does not have.

This "mutual agreement" is only if they realize that they can't be together with each other anymore, for whatever reason. Even if Shinichi were still in his original body if Ran found another partner for herself and if she were serious about it he would not be able to stop her - he would have to accept that it is the best for her, and in the end for him as well to accept that. And as you said: Shinichi would do ANYTHING to be together with her.

Spoiler:

Exactly, so why do you think Ran finding a new boyfriend would stop him?
He's already shown to become possessive when he believes Ran likes someone else without traces of him thinking of giving up. So no, Shinichi doesn't have to accept anything. I actually believe he would try harder to get Ran back if that was the case, to the point of not listen to anyone, attacking the B.O. directly or finally telling Ran the whole truth as Conan, ignoring his justified concerns for her safety.

But when Conan/Shinichi gives up his double identity and become Conan for good, this restriction would no longer apply. Then Ayumis similarity would be her strength - because she posses the characteristics that made Shinichi fall in love with Ran, and the same traits would now make him attracted towards (older) Ayumi.

Spoiler:

Why would Shinichi give up his identity because Ran has a new boyfriend?
He's in the perfect position to know ahead of time if she's developing interest in someone else and would go to the extremes to not lose her. He wouldn't settle for an imitation, if you want Pudding, you don't leave the store with imitation pudding.

He won't fall in love with another girl completely opposite to Ran. He will fall in love with one similar to her.  

Spoiler:

Why?

What I mean is that his current state prevents him to be with Ran. If he were not shrunk their relationship could have been "perfect" by now. You know, first date, confession, kissing and so on. A normal couple. What is preventing that from happening is the APTX that made him shrink.
If he can no longer be together with Ran for any reason the most obvious thing to blame is the APTX and his shrunken state that made him unable to intervene with whichever event(s) caused this separation from happening. So whenever he sees Haibara wouldn't he instantly be reminded of the APTX because she developed it? It would immediately remind him of what he has lost, what he can't have any longer (=Ran, and his former live in general) because of her.

Spoiler:

I sense a lot of projection towards Ai here. Well, first, the reason Conan can't be with Ran isn't the APTX. He's completely capable of being with Ran as Conan(nothing dirty people) and Ran has shown to be willing to accept him like that(when she found out the 3rd time and waited for him to tell her...but he tricked her ..again). Second, the only think that keeps Shinichi from being with Ran is Shinichi's fear that telling her the truth might get her hurt, something Ai has nothing to do with.
While the only thing that the APTX4869 caused Conan to lose was his normal body. His normal life was taken by the B.O. when he decided to follow Gin that day, again, something Shiho had nothing to do with.
And finally Shiho told Shinichi she had no control on how the B.O. used her drug and guess what...he believed her, shown by his apology in the Pisco case.

This effect of constantly reminding him is much weaker in Ayumi, since she has no direct connection to the BO and the APTX.

Spoiler:

So under this "what if" scenario, Conan would become spiteful towards Ai for something she had no control but would be perfectly okay not snapping at a little girl who keeps harassing him? .
If Conan does reach this threshold, chances are anyone close to him will feel his spite but unlike Ai, Ayumi would break when Conan tells her to leave him alone because he's not in the mood to deal with a kid as he has to stop the love of his life from moving on. Perfectly plausible as Conan has already snapped at the DBs when they have gotten to annoying for his taste.

Ai on the other hand would probably suffer even more than Conan judging her character. She will regularly blame herself and might be remembered occasionally that she was only "second choice" because her research made Conan/Shinichi unable to be with Ran anymore. This would certainly strongly burden her relationship with him.  

Spoiler:

Why are you projecting Ayumi's scenario onto Ai?
Though you want think other wise, the variables needed outside of "Shinichi stops loving Ran" are different for Ai. If Shinichi doesn't want to be with Ran and somehow ends up with Shiho...why would Shiho think she's the rebound?
She knows Shinichi well enough by now to know that if Shinichi wanted Ran, he would go after her not settle.
This scenario actually applies to Ayumi, perfectly. Shinichi would have to be constantly asking himself if he only likes Ayumi because she's a Ran imitation under your scenario and then would be tested every time he sees Ran, under your scenario, with her new boyfriend.

"Why did you just call me Ran?"
"Why did you get jealous when Ran came over today with that guy?"
Then finally at the wedding: "NOOOOOOOOOOO. I object, Ran you can't marry that guy...because..because.. *removes glasses breaking Clark Kent magic* I'm SHINICHI and I told you..no matter what I would make it back to you."
What will happen on next chapter of J-Drama Conan

Okay..now to answer your other reply but you are using to many "scenarios" and "what ifs" in this conversation Schillok..not worth the effort as all it does is produce long wall of text with little getting accomplished. So after my next reply lets juts say this one became.."stagnant" and move on. .

[Abs.]

YESSSSS FINALLY THE SPRITES FROM Miles Edgeworth are out!

[TheBlind]

Spoiler:

• Conan and Ayumi have a higher compatibility(interests & ideals)

We had this already. [b]Ayumi shares more interests with Conan than Haibara or Ran does[/b]. Both Ayumi and Ai share the interest for football (soccer), but only Ayumi is interested in working as/playing detectives and solving cases. This is clearly an advantage for Ayumi.
The with the ideals - Ayumi is like Conan who would try to help everyone. Ai would only help people she knows and likes.

Did...did you just take three things, one which is a natural trait in children(helping people) and say that qualifies Ayumi over Ran and Ai?
You sir are crazy.
Playing detective isn't the same as being one and something that is natural has no bearing. It can only be a trait if she takes it into adulthood like Ran did...again with the "what ifs".
By the way Ai likes football and Ran has never expressed a dislike for the sport.

She is just one of the few persons out there he can talk with about his double-identity. Of course he can't talk about that with anyone else. There isn't anything he would discuss with her that he would not also discuss with Heiji or Agasa.

There are several things that Ai has been told by Conan that Heiji is not aware of. No, I will not list them for you, GO, go on the journey that will open your eyes!
*hint:Eisuke Arc-Vermouth Arc-Clash with the B.O. arc-Okiya Arc- and there's more but these would suffice..GO!

On the other hand despite being so "close" to her he also keeps secrets from him. He had never explained to her why he let Okina live next door. He drugged her and locked her in a cellar to chase after Vermouth before. He keeps information he gathers hidden from her.

This is true love, .

This shows that just like for Ayumi there are things that he can't confine her in.

....no, there is NOTHING Conan has confided in Ayumi. You have to stop bending things..you are even confusing me, ,

I didn't kamikaze anything. I have solid reasons (same interests and ideals, similar to Ran, etc) to believe that Ayumi has great chances to win Conan if he gives up on Ran in a few years. Ayumis interest in Conan is confirmed by the canon. Ais/Shihos in Conan/Shinichi not.

All you have are "what ifs" which you bend to kamikaze valid points. I already showed you what you are doing by spewing a lot of "what ifs" myself. I don't like using "what ifs" in seriousness but I had to show you what your "points" were built out of.

As for the last sentence..NO ONE can force you to accept something you don't want, so under your canon sure, Ai loathes Conan and Conan is madly in love with Ayumi secretly..but that canon is an imitation, .

Don't try to put ConAi on the same level as ShinRan and AyuCon on a lower level at the same time.

Why not?
Can you prove that Ai has no love interest of Conan without resorting to "That's not how I see it" and claiming convoluted explanations that introduce the DBs 50% of the time where Ai is only talking to Conan?

Also, I'm thinking you are forgetting the fact that Ayumi is a child. You keep throwing out that Ayumi's romantic interest has been proven by the canon but has the canon proven it to be more than a child's crush?
Hint: ,no.

I don't see how this is different from 1) Will Conan stay? and 2) Will Conan confess to Ayumi?
If you want to put it in such an easy way every couple could be answered by these two questions.

Unless Conan is into confessing to seven year old girls ...I don't see how Conan staying can be immediately followed withe a confession question. Like you said, High School is the earliest this pairing would even get off the ground and dictating everything would stay constant for it to happen is just forcing it.

I already presented a lot of evidence that shows why Ayumi x Conan is at least equal to Ai x Conan.

Out of everything you have presented, what hasn't been countered or disproved?
Most of what you presented was and is conjecture, conjecture when pointed out you try to protect with the "opinion shield"...just like you are doing right now.

[b]She is not holding back for the sake of Ayumi[/b] at the moment because she HAS NO ROMANTIC FEELINGS for Conan. But even if she developed them later, I think she would hold back for the sake of her best friend Ayumi.

You are talking in circles.
Also prove it, prove to everyone that she doesn't. Don't try to sneak out of it by saying "the canon has proved it" because it hasn't. I actually want to see how you can explain every Ai moment away. .

And you don't want to claim that they already are in that relationship and Gosho is keeping it a secret to surprise everyone in the end?  ::)

A "what if" that is immediately disproved by the canon makes no sense so why would I? .

Seriously, that scenario you gave is not impossible given the right turn of events. (Like: Conan giving up on Ran; Ai falling in love with Conan and vice-versa; A confession from one of them, the acceptance from the other and then both deciding to do it that way.)
Still, if Ayumi stays in love with Conan it would break her hearth and both of them know it.

Yes, I finally got you to say it. Yes you are correct because it's a "what if", the exact same thing your "Ayumi will grow more compatible with Conan" fact is. Like most of the points you have stated for Ayumi, the right turn of events would make them impossible and we can't say yes or no because they work outside the canon.

But this is how our pairings work. Unless one of them turns reality which I don't really think.

Depends what you are talking about. A discussion that Shinichi would chose Shiho over Ran yes, that is a "what if" discussion. A discussion that Shiho and Shinichi are more natural together/Ran and Shinichi love each other is not a "what if" discussion.

Beside, he didn't wait until the others were asleep to ask Haibara afterwards. If you recall he was kept awake by the DB talking and didn't know if Haibara was awake as well. He was not waiting for it, it was merely a good opportunity for a stupid question.

He was trying to fall asleep and after his tantrum he noticed the demons fell asleep and chose that time to ask the question.

He could have asked it at any other time as well.

You have to back up your claims my friend, if he could then why didn't he?

And as I said: Why didn't he change his behavior at all towards Haibara afterwards if he really believed that his mother was not talking nonsense? The "post-case segment" showed exactly that: The DB in the cinema, watching the movie, nothing having changed at all. If Yukikos statement would have had any deeper meaning but being a joke it would have been shown there.

Why would it be?
The event ended with Shinichi not confirming his mothers words, so he wouldn't change his behavior without confirming the truth behind that statement. Also are you trying to claim detailed continuity in the DC universe?
When has that been the case?
Heiji got shot and that was never referenced again until his mother was introduced(and buried since then), Kazuha almost committed suicide and that has not been referenced(only the mark), Conan got shot in front of the DBs and the DBs haven't changed(that is a traumatic event for adults let alone children), Ran almost got killed by Calvados...yet Ran doesn't bring it up when talking to Ai or Jodie.
Continuity only gets applied loosely(where Gosho feels like it) in DC.

The relevance is that just like towards Ran and Ayumi there are certain things that he doesn't reveal to Haibara. Like for the other two girls he has good reasons not to do so, but it shows that Haibara is nothing special.

.......So care to fill everyone in on what Shinichi has confided in Ayumi for her to be even present in this conversation?..

You are crazier than me Schillok and it's not a bad thing by any means. But like I said we aren't getting anywhere because it's just a big circle(....all your fault ). So I say we have sudden death! Three daggers, a bow, six arrows, three chickens, and a turtle. It will take place at sundown.

P.S.-TheBlind is a pawn TO NO ONE. You shall not use me to keep this thread on the first page, good sir!
Only one line responses for you sir!

[TheBlind]

sorry to bring back old new but

There was a Ai+Mitsuhiko thread once on these boards that contained a battle so fierce it almost destroyed DCTP forums. We lost great warriors like Ginrei would sacrificed himself to save his whole battalion, Akonyl who jumped into a volcano chasing after a ring, ranger who used his final moments to help everyone escape, and Jd- who revealed himself to be the evil master mind behind everything.

As you can see this was an epic battle that went down in history as one of the most epic battles ever.......and still the Ai+Mitsuhiko thread was about ten pages. Unless we ride the "off-topic" wave to 100pages I don't see it happening.

hah 11 pages almost on topic and no epic battle (even though I sent up a fort and everything)

Well battles need an ignition point..something to set it all off... Okay, I have taken a blank paper signed by Schillok and sent it to Abs. with the message "I have stolen all your lolis, try and get them back turkey".
Abs. small battalion and air force should be here in a few moments.

[Abs.]

...But my lolis are right here, tending to Jd- and GinRei who I've tied up...

Wait a minute!  LOLIS!  TEND TO ME, NOT THEM!!!  >:( >:( >:(

That's it, I'm declaring war on TheSchillok!

...

I WIN!

Alright, now what...  I'm bored.    Maybe I should declare war on someone who looks suspiciously like TheBlind, and yet doesn't sound like TheBlind...

[TheBlind]

...But my lolis are right here, tending to Jd- and GinRei who I've tied up...

Wait a minute!  LOLIS!  TEND TO ME, NOT THEM!!!   >:( >:( >:(

That's it, I'm declaring war on TheSchillok!

...

I WIN!

Why do you have Ginrei and Jd tied up, tied up with lolis tending to them?
Wait, don't tell me. I just realized that I'd like to claim plausible denial at the end of whatever you are planning.

Alright, now what...  I'm bored.   :-\  Maybe I should declare war on someone who looks suspiciously like TheBlind, and yet doesn't sound like TheBlind...

What do you mean I don't sound like me?
Crap..you think someone replaced me when I wasn't paying attention?!
Then where is the real me?!

[Abs.]

What do you mean I don't sound like me?
Crap..you think someone replaced me when I wasn't paying attention?!
Then where is the real me?!

Have you (or the real you) caught up with this thread yet: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=92970#p92970

[Tanner-kun]

Finally some war now I can use this.

[TheBlind]

What do you mean I don't sound like me?
Crap..you think someone replaced me when I wasn't paying attention?!
Then where is the real me?!

Have you (or the real you) caught up with this thread yet: http://forums.dctp.ws/viewtopic.php?p=92970#p92970

No..not until now. I have to hand it to Chekhov, it was the perfect trick..so perfect that I didn't even notice it and I was left with no opportunity to counter,how am I suppose to top that?!
Plus I have to wait until next year now to even try anything because the time limit is up....something I know you took into account when choosing to bring my attention to this, .
I will admit defeat but I will definitely win next year Chekhov!

Finally some war now I can use this.

This actually is pretty funny.

[Schillok]

You are crazier than me Schillok and it's not a bad thing by any means. But like I said we aren't getting anywhere because it's just a big circle(....all your fault ). So I say we have sudden death! Three daggers, a bow, six arrows, three chickens, and a turtle. It will take place at sundown.

P.S.-TheBlind is a pawn TO NO ONE. You shall not use me to keep this thread on the first page, good sir!
Only one line responses for you sir!

I guess our battle was drawn out long enough (for now), so just a few closing remarks:

First (an most important): Ayumi is no imitation of Ran. She is similar to Ran in some aspects. And much better. 

If you demand proof for everything I do, then try to prove your points as well.

Don't demand proofs for arguments. You can ask what makes argue in a particular way but once I did don't ask me to proof my decision. Though you might try to show why another interpretation would be more precise.

This is a manga and we are trying to predict the outcome of it. No wait, we are trying to show that our pairings can happen. Of course such a thing consists of "what ifs". We can't predict what will happen next canon-wise so of course we will have to speculate about it.

We have different opinions on different things so just because you don't agree with what I consider important which supports my pairing (Ayumi x Conan, in case anyone didn't notice yet) doesn't mean it is wrong.


In sports, if you talk to fans of both teams and ask who would win the game and to give reasons than a fan of team A will say. "Our team, Team A, will win, because we have the players XY and YZ and our defense is in best condition." Asking a fan of the other team will lead to something like "Our team, team B will win because player UV from team A is injured, our teamplay is better and our defense tactics are superior."
Neither of the fans is wrong with their arguments. They all have their points, even as a neutral observer you would not be able to tell by these arguments which team will win now. The only way to find this out is waiting until the game is over.
It is the same with our pairings. There are arguments supporting or impairing them and neither of them are wrong, it just depends on how you weight them. The only way for a final verdict would be to be waiting until the end of the manga.
Though in that case probably neither would win.

The point is: AiCon is not "superior" to AyuCon.  

That was already more than originally planed...

[mangaluva]

Love Calculator results
These are the results of the calculations by Dr. Love:
Edogawa Conan+Yoshida Ayumi =17 %    

Dr. Love thinks a relationship might work out between Edogawa Conan and Yoshida Ayumi, but the chance is very small. A successful relationship is possible, but you both have to work on it. Do not sit back and think that it will all work out fine, because it might not be working out the way you wanted it to. Spend as much time with each other as possible. Again, the chance of this relationship working out is very small, so even when you do work hard on it, it still might not work out. 

[Abs.]

Kudo Shinichi + Yoshida Ayumi = 64 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Kudo Shinichi and Yoshida Ayumi has a reasonable chance of working out, but on the other hand, it might not. Your relationship may suffer good and bad times. If things might not be working out as you would like them to, do not hesitate to talk about it with the person involved. Spend time together, talk with each other.

[Detective Prince]

Kudo Shinichi + Yoshida Ayumi = 64 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Kudo Shinichi and Yoshida Ayumi has a reasonable chance of working out, but on the other hand, it might not. Your relationship may suffer good and bad times. If things might not be working out as you would like them to, do not hesitate to talk about it with the person involved. Spend time together, talk with each other.

Conan Edogawa + Ai Haibara =75 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Conan Edogawa and Ai Haibara has a very good chance of being successful, but this doesn't mean that you don't have to work on the relationship. Remember that every relationship needs spending time together, talking with each other etc.

And funny how Shinichi and Ran are the same as Shinichi + Ayumi since thats what peoples been saying. So since were right about that. We are right about Haibara being more capatible =D

Scratch that even Ayumi is more captible

Shinichi Kudo + Ran Mouri= 63 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Shinichi Kudo and Ran Mouri has a reasonable chance of working out, but on the other hand, it might not. Your relationship may suffer good and bad times. If things might not be working out as you would like them to, do not hesitate to talk about it with the person involved. Spend time together, talk with each other.

Wait! even dead bodies are more capitible!

Conan Edogawa + Dead Bodies= 67 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Conan Edogawa and Dead Bodies has a reasonable chance of working out, but on the other hand, it might not. Your relationship may suffer good and bad times. If things might not be working out as you would like them to, do not hesitate to talk about it with the person involved. Spend time together, talk with each other.

[Abs.]

Kudo Shinichi x Megure Juuzou = 89 %

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Kudo Shinichi and Megure Juuzou has a very good chance of being successful, but this doesn't mean that you don't have to work on the relationship. Remember that every relationship needs spending time together, talking with each other etc.

Though, as expected, Agasa's a better choice:
Agasa Hiroshi x Megure Juuzou = 91 %

[mangaluva]

Kudo Shinichi+Kuroba Kaito=94 %   

Dr. Love thinks that a relationship between Kudo Shinichi and Kuroba Kaito has a very good chance of being successful, but this doesn't mean that you don't have to work on the relationship. Remember that every relationship needs spending time together, talking with each other etc. 

KaiShin wins all XDXDXD